No, the devs don't deserve any mercy
They sold a character (Twins) and either knew that you would be stuck in the floor up to 50 percent of the time, or didn't test it at all. Either way they deserve a ton of flak.
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Just had another exciting game where I was chasing the injured survivor to the gate and Victor gets stuck, switches back to Charlotte only to see the waking motion repeat glitch where you keep putting your head down.
Money well spent!
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Yea, it's inexcusable at this point. When you play victor it's a buggy mess and when you play against him you get no reward for kicking victor. The devs have been making killers for 4 years now (I understand this killer is a bit unique) and they have PBT as well. Gotta say, I'm extremely disappointed with them. You guys can do better. Please be better.
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I mean its not as if they didn't know about it, there were plenty of threads in the feedback section that went on about him getting stuck in the ground.
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Well, that's my point. It's one thing to introduce a bug into a game, but another to actually sell a new add-on knowing there are significant issues. Issues that might not even be fixed until the new year.
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And you know the dev team is at fault and not the higher ups from BHVR?
they probably can’t delay their releases because they are bound to contracts or something and have to manage the different platforms.
Hotfixes are there for bugs etc. and it’s not like you didn’t know about the issues before purchasing the DLC.
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Finally someone who cares about the game.
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It's all they fault. They didn't cared that much about this update, so it turned to be a total trash bin. I'm happy that I didn't buyed that poor DLC.
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This is what you get for supporting BHVR!
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Actually, I didn't know of the issues. I bought on launch day, had heard of some bugs during testing from watching test server trailers but assumed they were going to be mostly fixed at launch, like most other games.
Instead, I read the banner announcements in the game that they posted that seemed to forget to list all of the known issues.
Higher ups or devs, they are all the same. They represent the same company, and if they are being forced to go live with known substandard product then they probably need to seek a new employer.
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Yep, fool me once, shame on you. Last dlc purchase.
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That's the same "logic" people use to yell at cashiers because of something managers decided to do.
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If you sell a broken product there is no limit to the flak you deserve. Is it naive to buy something from a company with a not-so-great track record? Yes, doesn't matter. BHVR is the recipient of the money, they have the high card, they have to take the flak.
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If the cashier knew that my milk was bad while checking me out, then I would yell at them too.
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I expect this thread to be hidden and OP jailed before daylight.
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They are not allowed to make decisions on your behalf or prevent you from making a purchase (besides the usual, like buying alcohol if you're underage). To do so would risk their job (and, in some countries, their safety, because certain customers don't take kindly to it). You'd literally be yelling at someone who just wants to keep their livelihood.
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Then maybe they should change the work?
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Because of belligerent customers who blame cashiers for a manager's ######### up? You'd never find another cashier again.
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That's the point. Then it would be all manager's fault for losing all the cashiers.
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In the mean time, the cashiers are left without a livelihood. Will you be the one to support them financially while they find new jobs (if they can even find new jobs)?
Fact is, "just quit" isn't so easy when that's your only source of income. So how about, instead, you direct your complaints at the people who are actually responsible?
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Excuse me I said I blame ALL THE TEAM from BHVR, not only the community, but if someone can't do their job in time and then later we get an ''update'' like this then sorry. I don't see anyone more to blame. Anyway I hope they're gonna fix this and write a new developer update. We deserve an info about what's coming next to the game and what happened to the missed content.
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So you bought something without informing yourself about it in any way and now you are not happy with your purchase and you think the devs don’t deserve to be treated in a respectful way because of it?
the bugs will get fixed in the next hotfixes. They are working hard on this. And this disastrous release will probably impact future releases and they will probably change accordingly.
they don’t have to find a new employer just because it isn’t perfect now. They can all improve on it, especially if they like their job and company otherwise..
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Please, don't respond to people like this. It just turns into a flame war instead of something constructive. Just say your peace and move on.
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Let's give credit where credit is due.
Yes, it's shameful that they would release a product that is this broken, and ask their customers to pay for it. Five of the six perks don't work as intended, and there are all these issues with the Twins getting stuck in the floor, etc. But I imagine that the developers are just mortified and angry when things like this happen, because it's hard to take pride in something that you know went out before you got it right. I feel really bad for them. All of their efforts are being shoved out the door in a sorry state.
You need to blame the bean-counters -- the product managers and executives who live and die by their quarterly projections, who don't give the developers any choice in this matter. Take it from me: I have worked with many good product managers at large game developers in my life, who go through with the difficult decision to delay this-or-that game or feature because it's just not ready, despite what they had initially intended the schedule to look like. I can only conclude that Behaviour does not have anyone there who is dialed in or cares enough to give things more time to bake.
The devs (undeservedly) get all of the public ire for this, but I promise you that internally, they are just as frustrated as we are.
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Game developers are always on a timetable mandated by the higher-ups. You are blaming the wrong people by including all of BHVR.
PS: I didn't even mention the community, but I fail to see how any of us are to blame.
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I suppose you could say that people who buy the chapter and cosmetics are partially at fault too because they support their bussines practice
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Kinda. But well. You can't ''really '' blame people for trying to have a fun with the new content.
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Of course
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Customers are always gonna customer. People buy substandard stuff all the time and don't really get up in arms about it. For an individual customer, hey, it's $6.99, no big loss right? You don't have people boycotting them over that amount, and so the people in charge of looking at the profits and weighing the cost-benefit stuff shrug and go, eh, it's fine to keep going along like this. Behaviour is demonstrably a very metrics-driven company, and what we're seeing here is a consequence of that.
My conclusion about them is that they're never going to stop doing it this way because there is no outside force -- no publishing partner or other external partner -- that is telling them "no" or that can exert pressure on them to try different things or change. They're like the Star Wars prequel-era George Lucas of video game developers in that way; they make all the decisions, and no one is in a position of power to convince them otherwise, because they own the entire stake in this thing.
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I agree,
This company needs a clear sign from the community that the current state of updates etc. is not okay.
Another thing that hurts this game a LOT is the lack of competition.There's no game out there that gives you a similiar feeling and experience like DbD does and they know this.
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That's one of the reasons why I didn't purchase this DLC.
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The only clear sign in this way, as you describe, would be a not-insignificant dip in revenue. But please remember, "the community" is an extremely narrow enthusiast faction within DBD's very large player base. Those of us who engage here on the forums, and on Reddit, Twitter, etc. are a minority of DBD extremists. We are an extremely small group of people who care enough to be here in this capacity, and we are not representative of the player base at-large. Never forget that.
Lack of competition is definitely a problem in this genre, and eventually, strong competition (when someone else finally gets it right) is going to be the thing that either destroys this game or forces Behaviour to adjust. Unfortunately, I think that any sudden major adjustment is impossible, and they really need to start sorting out this game's myriad issue little by little, over time. The best-case scenario would be to create an empowered development group within Behaviour whose entire job is to fix DBD in the long run.
Or, a better solution in my eyes would be to just take everything they've learned -- good and bad -- and make Dead by Daylight 2.
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The only thing players can do is stop giving them money then. They haven't even fixed core problems like keys and Moris over years, and keep saying oh we're getting to that stuff eventually. NO its the most important thing right now,work on it right now. Atleast they are working on hit validation, but it will likely be a year before any results for that come out.
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The fact that they are so robotically metric-driven means that they don't even see it your way. The idea that "keys and moris are a problem" (a statement I emphatically agree with) is met with responses of "we looked at the data, and those things don't impact win rates enough." As a team, they don't commit any effort to dig deeper into the human frustration on these things. This myopic perspective infects the whole company, and we're seeing the results in action right now with this new DLC. Maybe it's a bridge too far for enough players, but I doubt it. So many people are on the treadmill now, and it's just another $6.99.
And things like the knee-jerk assumption that "it's going to take them a year to get hit validation right" -- this is a sad but probably true assumption in a broad sense, because we have consistently seen them take forever to solve things that they have identified as major issues. This is 100% a sign of an extremely defective internal corporate culture, and they've probably lived with it for so long that there's no way out of it.
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The fact that they are so robotically metric-driven means that they don't even see it your way. The idea that "keys and moris are a problem" (a statement I emphatically agree with) is met with responses of "we looked at the data, and they don' impact win rates enough." As a team, they don't commit any effort to dig deeper into the human frustration on these things.
Incorrect. Mathieu himself said that if something is not fun to play as/against, they will address it. Moris and keys, for example, are being addressed.
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Yes but with a big eventually. They said the same thing about dedicated servers. Remember how long that took?
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They say things like this a lot, but here we still are. He's the game director, he has broad latitude to set priorities and spur rank-and-file developers to action, and empower them to solve problems. I've seen plenty of individual people within Behaviour acknowledge on a stream or a Q&A that this-or-that is an issue, but then it just gets seemingly forgotten about.
According to the DBD wiki, the last change to Moris was made in patch 2.5.0, in January 2019, and it was just a small quality of life update on the HUD. That was almost two years ago, almost half the entire life of this game to date. So I hope you'll forgive me for not having a lot of faith in them when they say they'll look into these things.
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Yes. Remember the game was coded with P2P in mind, as well as many development shortcuts due to the limited budget?
There's a long road from "this is an issue" to "let's address it in this fashion". Ideas have to be discussed from various perspectives until the best solution is found. They can't just snap their fingers and do the first thing that comes to mind, that's how bad ideas get implemented (see: the first PTB's anti-camping mechanic).
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I understand this, but it also doesn't take most developers two years to rebalance a single mechanic that (and this is me making a possibly wrong assumption) most probably just boils down to a numbers tweak. We haven't even seen any potential rework ideas discussed, or hit the PTB, or anything. So I can only conclude that a lot of these cans just keep getting kicked down the road.
A lot of people seem to want to extend endless "oh, give them time!" good faith, no matter how much time passes. My life advice is to learn that there ought to be a limit to how much of this you are willing to extend.
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Fair enough. I'm guessing a lot of it is because BHVR is (supposedly) very anti-OT.
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Hey, I'm all for good quality-of-life employment practices. If they're not making their developers work overly long hours, good for them. I support that.
Like I said a few posts up though, I think it would be really great if they had a team whose entire job was to focus 100% on these types of game health issues, and empower them to make sure these kinds of fixes make it into the live game. It isn't like Behaviour is some cash-strapped insolvent company, they could probably put together a small team of this type and get their game fixed.
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Apropos of nothing (and at the risk of derailing this thread, but I cannot help myself) -- you want to know how to fix moris? Make them usable only on survivors who have already reached struggle phase (i.e. the equivalent of having been hooked twice). The end, no more shaving 1/3 of the killer's objectives off, you still retain the cool "slasher kill scene" thematic, and the item becomes a tactical "I'm bringing this to avoid DS and cut down on travel time for the final hook" choice.
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Yes, I've heard that idea before, of rendering Moris utterly useless. I disagree with it, heavily.
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I am tempted to engage in a mori discussion here, but it will derail this thread completely. I can start a new thread if it's something you don't find exhausting talking about. I'm sure you know how I feel already. :D
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You're always entitled to critique a company's product if you've invested in it and have no obligation to hold back on your grievances. Don't let agentic people tell you to suck it up and not be entitled. You are, in this case, given you were promised a functional product and it happens to not be working as intended for the most part. Some companies get downright sued over this, though I don't think BHVR's case is extreme enough, plus they are trying to fix it. Nonetheless, releasing such a product in the first place isn't something to overlook, especially since a lot of people that may purchase it aren't nearly as well informed as the people here.
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This will never stop happening because there is no competitor. Look at COD vs Battlefield. BFV, they just did whatever they wanted and the hardcore players abandoned the franchise. COD on the other hand watched BFV go in the trash, and made sure not to follow. Cold War just sold crazy and has high praise overall while EA has skipped a cycle and we're stuck with BFV. Huge L for EA.
BHVR doesn't have competition. There's no game of the same genre. Identity V was the closest but it's a mobile game.
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I'll just summarize it in this manner: having Moris work like that is like having keys only work if the gates are powered and open. The trial is already over (for one survivor in the case of Moris and for the killer in the case of keys). There is no reason to have either of them work like that unless your goal is to render them useless.
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Do you disagree that the problem with the red mori is that it crosses off 1/3 of the killer's objectives on the loading screen? This is the pertinent problem that needs to be solved, as I see it. It is equivalent to saying "the survivors begin the game with 2 gens completed" (assuming we count the door as 1 of 6 survivor objectives). That is what the red mori does, it reduces the killer from 12 objectives to 8 objectives.
Also, I would advocate for making keys require that survivors fill up a progress bar to unlock the hatch, and the killer sees their aura while they are doing this. That way there is some risk and counterplay involved.
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Yeah, real competition would put the screws to them for sure. It's a shame that nobody else has been able to get it right.
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You are a funny guy. Keep defending false advertising. In any way? Yeah, I read what they wrote about it. That is - some dev wrote about all the amazing new character and map improvements. They posted it for all to see. And they purposefully neglected to tell us about known bugs.
Silly me to expect products to work when sold. I am sure every player of this game goes to this forum before buying DLC.
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Not Dev's fault. Problem came from above.
I'm dev and we have schedule/delivery time (sorry english is not my main). It's another team job to test and release a product like "quality" and after that which this company has none.
DBD needs to be sold to a serious company i always thought so like dota was.
I keep playing because I like the game despite the numerous incompetences for a paid game as i keep playing dota2.
The problem is that we inflate the director's ego by continuing instead of "playing another game" so for customers is "whatever let's lauch this... ppl will keep playing"
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