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Pls Devs don't Nerf keys
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I literally saw this in action 2 weeks ago. Someone switched to a key with 10 seconds left in the lobby, giving me barely enough time to equip Franklins. Then 10 seconds into the match I saw her open a chest on a hill and deposit her key for safekeeping.
Needless to say I tunnelled her into the ground, because that was a scummy move she tried to pull.
Keys are very unhealthy for the game. They don't let you "earn" an escape. They allow you to escape without completing your objectives, which is sort of the opposite of earning it.
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I think a lot of people get that this year.
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This
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It allows you to despawn keys, and also negates white wards and the key ring addon. It not only prevents them from using their key, it despawns it so they cant keep it and use it against the next killer they face. I consider eliminating keys with Franklins to be a public service.
Also also, you'd be truly shocked at the number of free downs I've gotten because survivors are desperate to reclaim their keys/medkits. It is genuinely hilarious.
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######### are you talking about? lmfao. In the first thing of this thread, you can literally see Mandy say that “keys account for approximately 2% of escapes only”. There’s your facts from a dev. It’s not opinion. 2% of all the games? That’s not that much. The data that’s factored into it is “this is the number of games people have used a key to escape”
Let’s compare that to moris where you have a high chance to mori somebody. If a key is used, I’d say the majority of the time it’s with 2 people going through. I’ve played both sides for hours upon hours upon hours and I can tell you that I’ve run into killers get at least 2 kills with a mori (comparing to the 2 players escaping with a key) probably 50x more than I’ve ran into somebody using a key to get hatch. It’s much easier to mori 2 people than for 2 people to use a key and escape through hatch. I could go on all day about this but I assume you understand and agree, because you’d only be fooling yourself if you say otherwise
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Oh come on you're not even trying here.
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I'm not going to waste time debating anything with you if you don't even understand that statistics need context or they're meaningless (and the 2% stat being tossed around is being done so without any context). You're stating an opinion based on a number without apparently even wondering how those numbers are being arrived at. If that concept is over your head, then further discussion is pointless, lol.
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Only used moris for dailies before the nerf, will probably be the same now that they ARE weaker, but I couldn't care less, I would rather sell them back for more BP.
I feel the same way with keys. Barely ever used them, and they are a free crutch throw in just like how moris were. I would also rather sell all my keys for BP, since I have plenty that I will never end up using.
As always though, killer gets the stick first, and survivors stick will eventually come at some indiscriminate time. At the very least, we know it comes at some point.
Basically, the mori got nerfed, get over it, the key will to, so get over it.
As a wise DEV Moderator once said "Nintendo is not telling us how to design the game." lmao
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just don't get downed, you won't have to worry about being mori'd
see how ridiculous that sounds
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please elaborate how keys are fun for killers
i'm eagerly awaiting the mental gymnastics you're about to drop on us
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Keys are kinda useless tbh tho IDK why people care about them that much nerf whatever they suck unless ur in the endgame and trying to survive not to mention you have to find it first.
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What o.o mori was like a free win what fun is it to kill someone after the first down. Hatch ain't fun anyway it's no hypocritical it makes tunneling less hard and this may also decrease the number of people who bring decisive strikes to given games. On the killer side, tho yall are starting to tunnel harder because of the nerf of more which is really confusing like how is mori so important or fun. Do you not wanna chase or have to do anything to win and Michael Myers used to be able to mori people while they were alive which was really unfair also. Keys are trash and if your good then you could easily win practice makes perfect.
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you have to survive and do the gens to escape with a key what are yall so toxic about keys for? Tunneling because of a key o.o what is wrong with this community. I could understand if they were being toxic to you but what if they needed to do a challenge or anything.This makes no sense.
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Keys and moris should be removed and then this war would stop nobody would be having fun with either lol.
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A lot of people don't understand that tunneling is the killers version of genrushing. If genrushing isn't toxic than neither is tunneling.
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I think a lot of you fail to see if keys are accounting for 2% of all escapes that isn't factoring deaths in the actual games as well.
Out of 100 escapes 2 Survivors escaped with a key (this however would probably be more because the key enables multiple Survivors to escape).
Now take into account how many Survivors have died in these games as well for an overall escape rate with a key.
Example (being very generous):
50 games
100 Survivors escaped (50% escape rate)
100 Survivors died (50% death rate)
8 Survivors escaped with a key (each key use enabling the other 3 Survivors to escape)
8 Survivors out of 200 escaped using a key
In 50 games 4% of the Survivors escaped with a key
Over exaggerating someone escape with a key then think it happens EVERY SINGLE GAME.
It doesn't.
I'd say it's accurate.
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People really forget that the hatch got reworked and moris were untouched when end game collapse was introduced? Keys were technically nerfed back then, to the same state mori is currently in. only usable when the game is at its climax.
Also to note, if they add something like a channel to the hatch, what makes it any more enticing than using an exit gate (if its the same time to open)? If anything keys should get more uses like making chest opening faster if they decide to add an unlocking bar.
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Ah yes a chance to make another Jojo reference.
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Hatch rework was a neutral change. Did it effect keys at all?
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it did in the sense of when the hatch spawns, so like mori where it can only be used when the survivor is on last hook, if all 4 survs are alive (where the key is strongest) all 5 gens must be done, so its p.much the same concept.
If a surv gets away with a key when other survs are dead, thats a shame but you still got some kills, suck it up and move on to the next game.
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freddy? don't go off topic
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Wasn't hatch always like that? The only thing they changed was when only 1 survivor was alive. Hatch would always spawn instead of requiring a certain number of gens to be done.
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The hatch has not been changed for a long time. The only thing that's been changed about it, since I started playing in 2017, was they changed killer being able to grab a survivor out of the hatch to closing the hatch. EGC did not change the way the Hatch works, other than closing it starts the EGC. It's spawning hasn't changed.
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Are you ok? It’s simple. The dev said “escapes with keys are only 2% of the games” what else do you need? I think you’re the one who doesn’t understand it. Honestly, a 5th grader could probably understand it. Keys are brought into games more than 2% of the games and they’re not used. Either they die with the key or escape and they don’t need to use it. 2% of escapes are by key usage.
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yeah you are right, it was mainly the end game lmao I was under the imperession they made them require one more. My bad
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Survivor mains lmao. Literally just had an amazing scratched mirror ruined because of key. That really fair? All on second hook. Almost no way of winning, and BOOM keyed. GG EZed. Nerf key.
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It doesn't matter if they are prevalent or not. Same with OOO. It was mentioned that "But people don't escape often with it and it is rarely used" These things can both be true, but also be unfun to deal with. The fun factor needs to be changed.
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I started to type a reply, but again, you seem to be the type who takes a statistic at face value without any context and runs with it, so doing so would be pointless. You resorted to a juvenile veiled "5th grader" insult -- I'll simply point out that it's abundantly clear you've never taken a course in either statistics or analytics.
I'm done. You're the brick wall, and I'm not going to give myself a headache banging my head against it.
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Yes I love this idea😊
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As well as a 3 second animation, how about the hatch closing after you so that you're the only survivor that can escape.
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As a solo survivor, keys do a lot more damage to my games than they ever help it. I won't care if they're gone. I only use them when they put in the awful hatch challenge in the Tome.
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killers have something overpowered that ruins the survivor gameplay experience? - remove that asap!
survivors have something overpowered the ruins the killer gameplay experience? - nah thats fine, dont nerf it devs!
yeah, not hypocritical at all.
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I rarely see survivors use keys unless they're solo what are you talking about o.o. If anything both should be removed I said that didn't I both are horrible. Honestly, keys are trash but I mean whatever floats your boat. I say just remove both completely. Don't get all offended both of the things you said had nothing to do with my post so take your sarcasm elsewhere. If you read my other posts that were right by each other you would have saw that pack it up.
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I don't think anyone reasonable is arguing that it happens every game, obviously. And I trust that the 2% number is accurate.
I would be interested to see (much like they did for killer rates) the difference between Red Ranks and other ranks, for example. The obvious assumption is that Rank 17-20 players aren't using keys to escape (for numerous reasons), so their escape rates in matches using a key is likely barely above zero. Conversely, Red Rank escapes are likely above that 2% rate -- but we don't know how much higher. If there's a difference between Red and Purple, or Purple to Green/Yellow, those would be interesting numbers to see, and more detailed information would be better indicative of the impact of keys at each level and what changes, if any, need to be made.
That's the only point I've tried to make in this thread is that using the 2% number with so little corresponding data is an incomplete look at said data -- just like if someone pointed out Nurse's standing as the worst killer in Red Ranks by kill rate and used that as a sole justification that she needs a buff (which would be a ridiculous assertion, but if you looked at the kill rates completely with no context, that would be also be the logical conclusion, wrong as it would be).
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so did i.
yet you wrote me a lengthy response in which you kept telling me how unfair and unfun moris are, but how keys are absolutely fine and all you need to beat key players was some practice (the good ol' "git gud" argument)...
(also, please dont view this as an insult or anything, but reading your post was kind of hard at given times - it's rather unstructured, which made it quite difficult to understand the points you were trying to make. so its definitely possible that i misinterpreted your point there (if so im sorry for that), but it feels like you kind of lost your own point you were trying to make there aswell. again, this isnt ment as an insult, but as some contructive feedback, cause i read through like half of your comment and just got super confused of what you were currently talking about.)
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Well, most killer players feel like they are always entitled, no matter what, to get a 4k. Glad Moris were changed with what I already proposed years ago. Many survivors, on the other hand, feel like they are entitled to an escape. It will only be fair to have a nerf applied to keys as well, and if you cared about balance in the slightest, I feel like you would not be asking for keys to go without revision. Something needs to be done to keys as well. They could still retain their core mechanic, which is hatch opening, but they should also receive something like only a single key can be brought in per match, meaning only a single survivor could start the match with a key. Prevent keys from spawning in chest if one is brought into the trial, or have just the survivor who used the key on the hatch escape that way. I feel like the first one, coupled with no more key spawns, would be the better option.
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Not tryna b rude but there's probably a reason only one person agreed with u, like pretty much everyone on this post said, keys needs b nerfed as well. keys end the game when killer is at their strongest, kinda like how old mori's could end the game when survivors r at their strongest.
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Looking at key escape rates or how they don't meaningfully help the survivor collective win is looking at keys from purely the survivor perspective, which is a huge problem.
Yes, Moris affect actual gameplay more than keys. But keys are worse. Not because they have a huge gameplay effect (they don't) but because the effect they do have is infinitely more toxic and unfun.
See, a Mori may dramatically help a killer win, but it doesn't fundamentally change the entire game. The survivors just subtract 1 from their allowed hook states basically. That is a big tempo swing but survivors still have a lot of power to deny being hooked even once, can still do good resuces, can still play to the hatch as a solo, ect. It doesn't destroy how survivors win the game, it just makes it harder.
Keys kinda destroy how killers win the game because multiple survivors taking the hatch utterly annihilates their emblems. They have extremely little counterplay because survivors can do stuff like hide keys on the map, so tunneling the key doesn't really work. It punishes the killer for doing well eliminating a player early, which is normally their goal, and forces them to do dumb slug stuff. Slugging is fair, don't get me wrong, but its not fun to be FORCED to slug or for the killer to slug in scenarios where they are just trying to find another kill. Ideally the killer should only feel like they want to slug because they immediately hit another chase, rather than to avoid getting screwed out of a pip by the hatch.
If 2 survivors escape via hatch, which the killer can't really stop unless the win was so crushing the survivors really don't belong at their rank, the killer basically auto-loses the match. So keys are kinda the worst of all worlds in that they aren't a very big boon for survivors but are CRUSHING emotionally for killers.
Which is why stats based gameplay design, while useful, is extremely dangerous to depend on. The stats don't tell this story about keys (or at least, they don't measure how often killers pip vs key escapes, which I would assume is extremely low). Despite having a big game effect and needing a nerf, its pretty apparent keys are the worse actual design because no one really gets a 'high point' with them, they just exist kinda to ruin a player's match. Both needed to be nerfed, no doubt, but people tend to be more tolerant of 'this is too strong but doesn't really change how I win if I am good' than 'this actively punishes me for caring about the game.'
Don't get me wrong, part of this is a problem with the emblem system. The killer should care WAY less about hatch escapes, and not be punished for survivors killing themselves on hook for example, because that is more common and is just as likely to rob the killer of a pip they arguably earned. But its less demoralizing to not notice the subtle effect of someone trying to unhook themselves while your not even camping robbing your devotion score (especially because you got the kill, which is a very positive event for killer) than to very overtly lose a pip because survivors robbed you of your ability to do your objective before they use a mechanic designed to balance the game for solos as a duo.
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I have literally never seen Jojo so any reference was unintentional lmao
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As a rank 1 survivor who plays on the official DBD discord server in SWF i can 100% tell you that i havnt had a key brought in and used to escape in the last 2 maybe 3 months. Ya we have found a few keys in chests and were forced to use them to escape, especially if the doors were really close together and the killer found and closed hatch, but while i think that they are broken for the ability to open hatch maybe make it so that its an ultra rare addon to be able to open the hatch or something like that but i would not say that at red ranks we use keys to escape. We either get the gens done really fast and escape through the exits, or its a long game that ends up being a hatch game with only 1 survivor escaping.
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Yeah exactly. You won’t say anything because you know you’re wrong. There is little other statistics that you could say, and even if you do then it would make the slightest difference it wouldn’t even be worth it.
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Nice meme
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My english was always great •́ ‿ ,•̀
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Are you ok?
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I said I was done talking with you. Did you not take English classes either? :facepalm:
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Sounds like NOED.
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Just kill them faster
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I like this idea😊
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Sure they may not be as strong as moris but they are heavily unbalanced. Either they'll literally allow 2-3 survivors who shouldn't have escaped escape or often they'll just be completely useless, one or the other. They need a rework which tones them down but also makes them useable more often and outside of swf.
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My main problem with keys is that even if you kill the guy who brought it, it’s still in the game and can threaten the killer even though the guy who brought it is dead. It’s just infuriating to play against. And I personally want keys to be nerfed (I’d even go the extreme route and say deleted)
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