Why (in my opinion) camping and tunneling should never be bannable.
I know that this goes against many people in the forums but hear me out. The definitions of tunneling and camping is actually not specific amongst the playerbase. To make it a bit easier for me to explain my points, let's just assume that the actual definition of camping is staying intentionally close to the hook, and tunneling intentionally focusing on killing one player.
There are many reasons for a killer to both camp and tunnel. For example, if all the gens are done and the killer didn't get any kills, it's entirely reasonable to camp that specific hook to secure a kill. Likewise, if a survivor already used their ds, and the killer can only find the unhooked survivor, it's also reasonable to quickly kill them so they can secure that one person is out, and the survivor team will in result be more pressured.
Does it suck for the survivor? Yes, a lot. But both are counterable.
The survivor team, in these kinds of situations, should focus on gens and either force the killer to leave the hook or force them to get a 1k.
Ds/unbreakable is probably the best anti tunneling perk combo. Having borrowed time can assist you in camping situations, deliverance is also extremely good.
So, in conclusion, camping and tunneling are both counterable. It is a really mean way to play the game, but these are simply infective strategies if the survivor team does their job.
(Edit: misleading title, sorry :3)
Comments
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It isn't bannable.
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Indeed it's not, but some people suggest it should.
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it's not at all
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As I already said, I've seen some people suggesting it, so I'm simply saying why I believe it should NEVER be bannable. Hope you enjoy
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People suggest lots of ignorant things; I try not lo laugh.
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I don't think BANNING people for this stuff is a great idea, simply because you would wind up with a lot of new players who don't really understand the consequences of what they are doing, and also it's hard to enforce something like that within the boundaries of the game itself, without human moderation/intervention. It's not tenable, from that standpoint.
My two cents: I try not to just straight-up tunnel someone off-hook since I don't want to get denied by Borrowed Time anyway, but sometimes I'm running around and after a bit, all I find is the wounded guy. Stuff like that -- it's just something that is part and parcel with the game. Now, going out of your way to tunnel one guy aggressively and immediately as soon as they're unhooked... there should be some sort of catch in the game's code where, if someone has been hooked twice within X seconds, a Borrowed Time effect occurs next time they are unhooked so they can at least have a chance to play the game.
Camping, depending on the killer and where you draw the line about what "camping" is, is baked into some power sets. Off the top of my head, Hag, Nightmare, and Twins all have kits that revolve around proxy-camping tools, which makes it incredibly dangerous to unhook teammates. I would argue that this is perhaps a larger-scale design issue, though there are some equally strong counterarguments about how you should have to deal with these killers (well except Twins, that's just bad). But I also think that straight-up sticking around the hook and facecamping ought to carry some sort of outsized punishment. I would encourage making the killer aura portion of Kindred a base kit thing for survivors, so that they definitively and unambiguously know it's happening and they should just focus on crushing gens to punish the killer's decision.
Also, you mention some perks that are good antidotes to this behavior, but that's a big ask, to force survivors to dedicate perk slots to get around a core game issue. It just shouldn't be that catastrophic of an issue in the first place, where you feel like you have to do that.
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It shouldn't be bannable. But it's still scummy.
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For sure! I just hard tunneled a toxic t-bagging jake about 3 minutes ago. Enjoy another big queue time and your 8k points dumbass :)
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It indeed shouldn't, and in my opinion ideas that involve either making it 100% mechanically impossible or punishable to camp/tunnel are up there in the hall of fame of absurd and at times straight up delusional ideas along with "let me DC as much as I want without penalties" or "remove SWF". It's stuff that is so firmly in NEVER EVER territory that genuinely wishing for them is recipe for nothing else than endlessly screaming into a void that will never even pretend to listen.
It makes sense designing the game in a way that at least makes sure stuff like genuine first-hook hard camping isn't a recipe for victory assuming the survivors react properly though. One reason why pretty much any change to generator speed/match length in general if other objectives are introduced would require some sort of tweaking to hook mechanics/timers - I'm pretty sure the devs absolutely want to make sure that true no-map-pressure hard camping costs a lot of objective progress if the survivors abandon the hooked teammate and just slam objectives.
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You don’t realize that gens are actually not able to get done a lot of the time in most of these matches even when killers are camping and tunneling because most of the time killers proxy camp where they can watch gens and the hooked survivor. Killers should never be able to do that. The only reason why they can so easily and efficiently is because 1) maps are too small which squeezes gens together making it easier for the killer to do it and 2) survivors can’t even fight back lmao. This game for that reason leaves survivors at a disadvantage in most games even from a 1v4 perspective. Survivors are underpowered and even when you have a team that is organized and doing everything right it’s not even guaranteed that you’ll beat the killer the majority of these games. Tbh killers are too easy to play. It’s stressful at times, sure. But never can you ever play killer and be like... I played the best I could and still lost it’s the games fault. No it’s your fault. This game hands killers so many tools to do their job and even gives them the comfort of being able to proxy camp. still blows my mind that they haven’t done anything to improve the experience on the survivors end of things.
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the lack of a clear definition for both is enough of a reason to not make it bannable.
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Banning people for camping and tunneling would just be daft ngl.
There should be punishments for camping, a sort of tradeoff maybe in a way, because currently it's the go-to tactic when you're loosing a game or want an easy win.
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It won't be unless you blatantly tunnel the same individual player over multiple games as you encounter them and they record enough matches to prove you're targeting them specifically and it's mostly the streamers that could do that on a moment's notice since they're already set up with software to record gameplay
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Unfortunately I disagree. Let's assume that there are 3 gens left (most chases in red ranks end after 2 gens are done, so let's assume that). The killer decides to hook the survivor in the middle of the map and camps them. Usually, the minimum distance of 2 gens is ≈15 meters, so let's assume that the killer is close to 2 gens. There are still 3 gens in the map, exactly the amount of gens that need to be done. So even if they do manage to camp in a place with 2 gens, the game will still allow the survivors to commit and have a 3 man escape.
The gens take 80 seconds to finish each, so I really doubt that the survivor team won't make any progress.
And no, there are still unbalanced issues on the survivor side that the killer can do nothing about. One great example is a swf with a haddonfield offering, a key and a "spawn the hatch to the main building" offering. They'll simply rush gens and 4 man escape through hatch, with little to no counterplay. Killer,imo, is much MUCH harder to play
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Don’t worry. It’ll never be banable.
And like you said, many players deem “camping” and “tunnelling” to be whatever they want it to be.
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I agree with the original post and both of these examples seem fair to me. If all gens are done, there is no reason for the killer to leave the hook and lose the kill. Also, if the killer can't find anyone else besides the person that was just unhooked, what are they supposed to do? Ignore them? Makes no sense if they did that.
So, while camping and tunneling end up being bad for survivors, neither of them should be bannable. Of course, in the first 30 seconds of the match the killer finds someone and face camps them to death, I mean, it's toxic... but should not be bannable.
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It has been mentioned multiple times by us that those things won't be bannable as they're a part of the game, just like tbagging is and is not bannable.
Even with people continuously asking for it, it is more than likely that neither of those things will ever be bannable. They're game mechanics and serve a purpose. Whether someone tunnels people or starts camping people from the beginning of the round or not. Even if reported, nothing will come out of it.
If at all, if there were to be done anything, then it should be something in relation to in-game content, but that's not for this topic as it'd be derailing the topic.
This is straight from the game rules:
Discarded report reasons
THE FOLLOWING ARE NOT CONSIDERED BANNABLE OFFENSES - PLEASE DO NOT REPORT:
- Camping
- Slugging
- Tunneling
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You're already forced with blood points you spend to not camp. It's the chase one. The less you're around a hooked survivor the more blood points you get for chasing another.
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The major problem is, that people only see WHAT is happening, not WHY is it happening. Making sure, that everyone has fun in a PvP Game is a nice-to-have, not a must-have.
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It isn't bannable, it shouldn't be bannable and it won't be bannable. However, killers don't have the right to cry BT/DS and the rest while camping and tunneling. "Wohoooo he used BT and I can't camp as efficiently". Great, that's that what BT is supposed to do.
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They shouldn't be bannable because you're not preventing the other players from finishing the game. That's the main point of it.
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Ye and what about insidious? That perk is legit made for camp
sometimes u have to camp or u lose the game or secure a kill. EG exit gates are opened, u leave hook - u lose another kill
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Oh yeah I forgot that this perk existed xd
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Camping and tunnelling aren’t counterable for the person being camped or tunnelled unless they or their teammates specifically bring stuff to counter them. If you get camped or hard core tunnelled without DS then I think it’s safe to say that you’re probably going to die and there’s not much you can do. Can’t deliverance if you were the first one downed or if you didn’t get an unhook. Camping and tunnelling is especially scummy when paired with noed as you can occasionally guarantee at least a 2K with no skill required. You mightn’t pip, but If anything, these people would probably be happy that they’re deranking as now they’ll have easier opponents. I don’t think it’s possible to make these things bannable as sometimes there’s little choice for the killer. As you mentioned for example, sometimes You keep running into the unhooked person and their teammates are being immersed so you have little choice but to tunnel. I’d personally prefer there to be some kind of reputation system so that people who regularly camp and/or tunnel gradually worsen their rep if they do. That way, occasionally camping or tunnelling wouldn’t be all that punishing, but people who rely on these tactics to get kills will tank their rep.
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I hate being camped, and I hate being tunneled but I get it.
I understand why, and at lower ranks it's obvious why. I completely understand, and I agree, it shouldn't be bannable or reportable.
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