Almo, why did you nerf Huntress' Lullaby?
@Almo I've just watched a youtube video called "Almo the game designer" on youtube.
There I saw the scene where because you couldn't hit doctor's skillchecks you said that huntress' lullaby won't affect snap out of it anymore.
From this it's clear that this is the reason you nerfed it, in my opinion.
So I have to argue:
1 I can hit those "impossible" skillchecks, it's not that difficult.
2 Other players, comp teams will hit those skillchecks 100%, there are proofs and I can prove it.
3 Normal streamers hit those skillchecks
Why did you nerf a perk that was not only a hex perk, but completely useless against good players unless some specific situations where you could surprise people?
I didn't want to make this post, but after seeing a perk being nerfed for no reason for this (maybe) I got pissed off.
( In the case this wasn't clear, this isn't a personal attack, I just want to discuss about this. Maybe you're a wonderful person, but if Albert Einstein says 1+2 = 4 It's not, it's 3)
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Balancing for lower ranks matters more than some people realize. If something ends up being miserable to play against in a lower-skilled environment, it can very much push people away.
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All of what you just said are high-level players. Low-level players exist too!
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You have a point. But the question is: how difficult is it actually? Controller players can do it, bad keyboards too.
Also, most important: once you know doctor has it, just look at all the screen.
Is it so difficult for newer players? This is the debate
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It's very unlikely a new player will have to face an overcharge/snap out of it doctor reversed unnerving presence huntress lullaby 5 stacks skillcheck, especially at rank 20
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I am always amazed how Killer Mains can care that much for Perks which they would have never played anyway.
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It's not the perk itself, it's a point of principle
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it was changed to be consistent, 2 killers have extra skill checks, id didn't affect the pigs so it shouldn't have affected doctors, that said it was also a bit of a buff because the hex no longer reveals itself until you get your first stack
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Ok so killers can't run memes now?
That's like asking why do survivor care about "Any Means Necessary" or any non meta perk.
People have fun finding uses for under-powered perks and by nerfing it it removed that fun from the game.
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It doesn't matter, the moment your receive the first stack the killer still needs 4 hooks more to get to 5, and 1 hook less before the alert is not so super. Cool, but nothing for a hex perk
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Also, that one line by coconut was amazing and it sucks that they just ignored it.
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Ah, NOW Killers want to meme. :^)
Let alone that this Thread is nonsense. At least dont complain if Devs dont communicate with the Forum Members, if you are opening Threads like this (or do Youtube-Videos like this, even if OP did not do said video, but another Forum User did).
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did you use it on doctor
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Probably not a good idea to post a video of the game designer and make fun of him. This is one of the reasons why the devs stopped being active on the forums
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This is correct. As long as HHL affected some powers and not others, we'd have to make an independent judgement on every new mechanic involving a skill check. If you allow that kind of design, the number of perks that need individual judgements as you add more features slowly grows. It's not maintainable. You want as few exceptions in your design as possible. This is also why Kindred lost its "trumps all Killer stealth abilities".
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More like Lmao 😂. Now are see what they balance their game around
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That sounds kind of similar to OoO since OoO affects some killer powers more than others. OoO can most likely end up getting the user killed sure, but the effect is has on different killers is quite noticeable and increases the chance of the other survivors to escape. For example, it is outright unfair on both hag and trapper. It affects some killer powers far more than others. Another example is Freddy, if a survivor is asleep they can literally see Freddy for as long as they want at any time. Also, the only reason the object of obsession user dies quite often is because the killer usually throws the game to kill that one person. On killers such as Oni or Blight, it is less effective but still strong, especially in a SWF group.
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Agree, keep not attacking him on a personal level, otherwise the post will get blocked
Post edited by Gay Myers (Luzi) on0 -
Can't argue with that. Consistency is very important, so when you put it like that, it's a decision I can get behind.
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Sorry, forgot about that, I fixed it.
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Good, that's the official reason now, thank for the response Enthan!
Some sort of big idea of design is good but the perk still needs some buffs, it's too weak at the moment
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There's more to game design than just "what I think is cool". It's a discipline that requires careful systemic thought about everything you put into the game. Being able to maintain a live game's design over time is just as important as putting cool things in. It's both possible and necessary to do both.
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I don't want to make fun of him, but this is the only video that has this part
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Agree, nothing to say
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I actually find the video kinda endearing although I don't get the point it wants to make. Should devs make an effort to become gods at the game by playing it every second they aren't working on it? Like never mind sleep or or having any hour of your life that isn't dbd-focused...
Losing the lullaby interactions with doc isn't as painful as when they stopped snapping out of it working with nurses' calling anyway </3
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Yet again they reduce the pressure on us survivors. I want more difficulty and skill required as survivor, not less.
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Is it difficult? No.
Is it annoying? Yes.
I don't think I've played a Doctor without either Iridescent King or Queen since the rework.
Sometimes they go as far to even use both.
Hitting those skill checks with the extremely poor framerate and random freezes on old consoles is downright oppressive.
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OoO is not affecting the killer's power themselves. You can see the aura of the killer and see them using their power. Against trapping killers knowing where they've placed a trap means that trap isn't useful against you.
The Freddy interaction is because of Obliviousness status effect and perks like Nemesis can cause you problems against OoO users.
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What about using perks such as Decisive strike and unbreakable? These perks together create a lose-lose scenario for the killer. DS in general is quite overwhelming for killers.
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True, but it is still unfair because, for someone like trapper and hag, that is literally their only power. People only really run OoO when they are in a SWF group meaning that the trap is not useful towards anyone if the user sees you place it because they can just call it out to their team. They are just m1 killers otherwise.
For the oblivious status effect that is just bad in terms of design. This should not be the case and just falls into the category of OoO needing changes.
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The fact is, the game is in the best place it's ever been for killers, it's the easiest it has ever been for killers, but because Almo said "Clown is underrated" and "OoO isn't that bad" he's some how the worst person for the team despite the leap and bounds this game has come over the past couple of years.
People so eager to cancel someone over two subjective comments instead of just agreeing to disagree.
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But I use to use lullaby when playing doctor. The only worthwhile time to use it is with the doctor. Otherwise it's just a useless perk no killers will use especially w the nerf.
Unless w undying, but is it really worth all those perk slots? ...
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I don't disagree that OoO is unfair to certain killers over others, but it's not because the perk specifically works differently for those powers. Which was the case for Huntress Lullaby.
I didn't want to bring up SWF with OoO, because most killers in the game are unfairly hurt against a SWF squad being told where the killer is at all times. And that's something that won't change unless OoO as a perk is completely changed and even a reworked OoO will likely still be seeing the Killer's aura in exchange for showing your aura to the killer as other reworked perks still retained the core identity of it.
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It does definitely need a nerf.
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At least he's talking with people today. He's made like 3 or 4 comments today that i've seen, that's the most dev communication I've seen in a while. I saw one post from another dev like almost 2 weeks ago that was about it.
If we had a dev or a community manager that was that active on a regular basis most of the problems people have with BHVR would be significantly reduced. Devs are busy sure, but that is where usually a CM or some other person takes the reigns and helps the communication and bridge the gap between the community and the devs....we don't have that here.
Instead; people end up watching things like that stream and drawing conclusions about their design decisions because that is basically the ONLY form of information they have....there is no other communication most of the time so of course people are going to come up with all kinds of accusations and assumptions- they have nothing else to possibly claim or show anything different.
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While this is true, the second they show on the forums and start posting you guys attack them, call them every single name in the book and act like you know everything. Almo is a dev, he is not required to post on the forum so he does it on his own time because he wants to do so. If you people could just show some basic human decency maybe we would see more devs come here and share insight into what's really going on and why they are doing things a certain way.
But that's not possible cause you all act like a bunch of children. So there's that.
(community managers have no excuse tho, their job is literally to engage with the community, if they can't handle the toxicity - which would be completely understandable - then they shouldn't be community managers anymore).
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You forgot how powerful aura and slowgen perks are on a high mobile killer. God forbid a survivor perk that is a little bit stronger against a couple of killers. For a perk that shares the aura between the two, a killer should find that advantageous.
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Was careful systematic thought used when mettle of men was released?
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Developers can't see every use case for everything, and you also shouldn't be using any specific error as an eternal cudgel to push back against solid game design principles. They get things wrong sometimes, and lord knows I hold their feet to the fire for some of the more pernicious things, but any live service game is a constantly moving target.
Some measure of standardized game logic, as this developer describes, is healthy for a game like this. These things don't just get changed willy-nilly.
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Like camping and tunneling at lower ranks?
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Yeah, actually. It's just that those are difficult things to solve cleanly.
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You're right, I'll give you that.
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The only change that was then needed was to ensure missed skill checks significantly reduced the chance of spawning another skill check within five seconds. Alternatively, stacks could be gained just like how Devour Hope stacks are gained. If the survivors are doing really well and are rescuing many survivors, Lullaby gets stronger, and if the survivors are lower skilled and don't save as often, Lullaby matters much less.
It's not balancing if the perk is made even more useless for killers to run at higher ranks :/
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Kinda like when y'all carefully thought about lockers and the Twins power.
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I just wanted to say...balancing things for lower skilled players makes things 75% easier for higher skilled players. Times 4.
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Why not just make it work on every skillcheck im the game
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tbh there is literally no change in the difficulty of madness skillchecks before and after Lullaby nerf, because you have a pretty consistent timing when they appear. It is not like they are random. You have a x second span and get 3 skillchecks. Pretty straight forward. I think Lullaby did NOTHING for madness
The other thing is: how long do you play until you get the point of "impossible skillcheck doc"? Aren't you already out of these low ranks when you try such builds? Especially as you need to unlock two perks from other killers and then grind through the doc until you find them. How often would yellow ranks face such builds?
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What is the problem exactly with the change? Why is it trash now? Because the missing sound is missing?
The skillchecks "now unaffected" by lullaby are pretty clear when they appear. Once you saw overcharge, you know you will face it on every sparkling gen. No need to hear it, you just know it will come. Same on madness. The 3 skillchecks appear like every 3 seconds. That is always the same on madness. No need for an audio cue. And 6% regression on madness? What a bummer, now THAT was always killing you. Not the fact that you just screamed and revealed your position to the killer.
I don't know if I got all pervious and current interactions correctly, but I think there is not a single case that makes the perk "worthless". If you say so, it either was already before but you didn't notice or you exaggerate.
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Bruh.. nobody uses it in its current state. It was a nerf becuz it did more than it was supposed to at least for the doctor.
Now it doesn't do any extra for the doctor.
U can call it that they 'fixed' it.
But end result is that it's nerfed.
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I asked for a clean explanation. I gave one. Lullaby did NOTHING for doctor madness because it is always the same pattern how the skillchecks appear. Please give me a clean before-after comparison to show why this turned into trash in your opinion
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Or when they carefully thought out HOARDER, the worst killer perk in the game.
It only helps the survivors Lol. At least monstrous shrine has some bit of value to the killer.
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