Autodidact--It's not very good
INTORDUCTION:
Autodidact is a very cool premise for a perk and I love it. I feel that more perks should have a push and pull effect to it. What I mean is, you start by being penalized and slowly start to buff your self up as the match goes on. With autodidact, you start with a -25% on healing progression and it removes the ability to hit great skillchecks. The up side for this perk is that you gain an extra 15% for everytime you hit a healing skillcheck. These are measured in tokens as you can have 3/4/5 tokens depending on what tier of the perk you have. So if you have all 5 tokens, every healing skillcheck is +50% automatically to the healing bar which is amazing. However, the issue is that is usually never happens.
EXPERIMENT AND RESULTS
I ran some experiments within trials to see on average you get this many tokens. As a control group, I used 20 matches, each time I had tier 3 Autodidact, here are the results in order; 2t, 3t, 3t, 2t, 1t, 0t, 2t, 3t, 4t, 3t, 2t, 2t, 2t, 1t, 1t, 0t, 2t, 3t, 2t, 1t. On average, I had about 2 tokens (1.95 to be exact) per match. This is dissapointing as that means I was NEGATIVELY impacted on average everytime I brought this perk. Once you hit 3 tokens, you begin to see some of the upsides, but that requires you to be healing other survivors and getting more skillchecks. The other downside to this is RNG, this whole perk RELEIS on RNG. Wether or not you get a skillcheck is completely RNG, in some matches I fully healed 2 survivors with the mangled status and never triggered a skillcheck, meaning, no benefit. But when I did get a skillcheck, it only negatively impacted the survivor I was healing and never got a benefit. On average, every match you bring autodidact, you are hurting your team. I should also mention im rank 1, so matches go by quickly, meaning, this slow burn perk is almost completely useless. Not to mention, using We'll Make It can heal faster than a t3 Autodidact perk with 5 tokens can.
HOW I WOULD CHANGE IT
As it is, autodidact is almost completely useless. With the recent nerf it receieved from the PTB, it's hard to say why anyone would use the perk. While it's concept is interesting (as stated earlier) the flaws are hard to ignore. In response to this issue, I would suggest these main changes. 1. Allow skillchecks to appear while healing other survivors with a med kit. Trust me, this wont break the game and make this perk "op", it's simply to allow med kits with needle addons to increase the chances of presenting a skillcheck while also increasing the rate you heal survivors by slightly. 2. Increase the rate at which skillchecks appear. The RNG is too much to handle with this perk, it can make or break your experience with this perk. To combat this, simply up the rates at which you are given skillchecks to help push survivors out of the penalization area of their tokens As long as survivors get 4-5 tokens, the perk becomes worth it. 3. Give it a point bonus towards Altruism. If you want survivors to use a perk that will hinder them before rewarding them, give them a little insentive. Blood Point bonuses dont affect the trial itself, but help motivate survivors to bring this perk. And finally, 4. Allow survivors to gain tokens from self care, give them the healing progression penalty, and dont give them benefits. If you allow tokens to be obtained off of yourself, you are able to gain more tokens while using this perk while not providing benefits to yourself. Since the whole premise of this perk is to learn overtime, using yourself as practice isn't a bad idea. You can provide yourself with tokens so that you may use your new found skill on other survivors.
CONCLUSION
As much as I like autodidact, it kind of sucks. With these chanegs I suggested, it could become one of the greatest altruism perks without being considered as unfair to fight against. I'd like to hear any complaints or discussions anyone can provide, im always open to discussing the perk!
Comments
-
Fun fact: you actually never positively impacted a match with that perk. At 4 tokens, you've healed -10% of a bar (-25 + -10 + 5 + 20). You need an average of 5 tokens (aka 5 skill checks) for it to not be a net negative per match.
I think reducing the starting penalty and reducing the number of tokens would make it more usable. It'd still be better to run We'll Make It most of the time, but if you wanna run an empathy healing build it'd be usable then.
6 -
@UncannyLuck said:
Fun fact: you actually never positively impacted a match with that perk. At 4 tokens, you've healed -10% of a bar (-25 + -10 + 5 + 20). You need an average of 5 tokens (aka 5 skill checks) for it to not be a net negative per match.I think reducing the starting penalty and reducing the number of tokens would make it more usable. It'd still be better to run We'll Make It most of the time, but if you wanna run an empathy healing build it'd be usable then.
I think the original math you said is incorrect since by the 4th token, you'd have a +35%, (-25% + 15% = -10% + 15% = 5% + 15% = 20% + 15% = 35% + 15% = 50%) however, it still doesn't positively impact the match like you said. The amount of time it takes to work, not to mention the amount of time you waste on healing action for the initial build up is detrimental. Then most importantly, with skillchecks being RNG based, you may not get a skillcheck until the end of a heal, and by then it wont even matter what token you have unless its a -25% or a -10% which shows how it hurts healing progression rather than help. I agree that if they can limit the initial build up penalty to something like -10%, it could help this perk a bit. Thanks for the comment!
1 -
Like I said a million times, there hasn't been a good survivor perk since David King. Yet killers have been getting at least 1 good perk every single chapter.
5 -
This content has been removed.
-
While I didn't track my numbers, I had the same experience using Autodidact. I've been trying to use it in my usual build since it's release, but I've only rarely gotten it past 3 tokens, despite going in for every unhook/heal possible.At best, it's inferior. At worst, it's detrimental to your team. Unless the numbers were reverted or the perk gets a guaranteed skill check at the beginning of a heal, it's going to stay a trash perk.4
-
Gee whiz, is that how it works? I thought the regression was only from missing the skill check (the skill checks can be difficult to see the success zones, and I will sometimes experience lag during skill checks, causing me to fail every time). I didn't like how the perk looked on paper, but if this is how it actually plays out, I have no desire to use this perk at all (only to get Adept Adam).
0 -
Does it proc on self-healing? I can see it being useful at lower Ranks, where new players might not have SC or a medkit, but if it only procs on other person heals... that's a pretty garbage return for a Perk slot. Better to run We'll Make It since most other healing will be done after an unhook.
0 -
This content has been removed.
-
I feel like all the new survivor perks are kinda garbage
2 -
This content has been removed.
-
Totally agree with you. On the PTB the perk was really good. Yes it was strong but if you managed to get 5 stacks you deserve to have a really strong instaheal. You went out of your way to heal your teammates. You stop doing your objective to heal people. Plus it's so heavily RNG based with the skillchecks. I've only managed to get 5 stacks once and that was in the PTB. Otherwise I only get like 2 or 3. The chances of getting all 5 stacks are slim cause there are so many things that can prevent you from getting the stacks. Self Care, other people healing the person before you get there or the killer interrupting and just the horrible RNG. I thought the PTB version was fine and didn't need a nerf. Right now the perk hinders your team more than it helps because you need 3 stacks before the perk starts rewarding you. Before you just needed 2 and that was alright.
When I played the PTB I was excited to have this perk in my build but not anymore.1 -
This content has been removed.
-
@HaterMcTater said:
@UncannyLuck said:
Fun fact: you actually never positively impacted a match with that perk. At 4 tokens, you've healed -10% of a bar (-25 + -10 + 5 + 20). You need an average of 5 tokens (aka 5 skill checks) for it to not be a net negative per match.I think reducing the starting penalty and reducing the number of tokens would make it more usable. It'd still be better to run We'll Make It most of the time, but if you wanna run an empathy healing build it'd be usable then.
I think the original math you said is incorrect since by the 4th token, you'd have a +35%, (-25% + 15% = -10% + 15% = 5% + 15% = 20% + 15% = 35% + 15% = 50%) however, it still doesn't positively impact the match like you said. The amount of time it takes to work, not to mention the amount of time you waste on healing action for the initial build up is detrimental. Then most importantly, with skillchecks being RNG based, you may not get a skillcheck until the end of a heal, and by then it wont even matter what token you have unless its a -25% or a -10% which shows how it hurts healing progression rather than help. I agree that if they can limit the initial build up penalty to something like -10%, it could help this perk a bit. Thanks for the comment!
Yes, you'd have +35% on your next heal. The problem is, at 4 tokens that means you haven't had a chance to use that +35%. This means that if you look at it cumulatively, you've added a total of -10% to a heal bar. And that's how this perk should be looked at.
To further clarify:
1st Heal = -25%; -25% cumulative
2nd Heal = -10%; -35% cumulative
3rd Heal = +5%; -30% cumulative
4th Heal = +20%; -10% cumulative
5th Heal = +35%; +25% cumulative (you never got to this state because your max was 4 tokens)It's even worse because even if you average 5 tokens, it'd be better just to bring botany knowledge which would be almost as good (+20% cumulative vs +25% cumulative) and have a 0% chance of being actively harmful.
2 -
I see what you mean, overall you've done more negative towards healing than you did positive, it really shows how bad the perk is in it's current state.
4 -
@Mringasa said:
Does it proc on self-healing? I can see it being useful at lower Ranks, where new players might not have SC or a medkit, but if it only procs on other person heals... that's a pretty garbage return for a Perk slot. Better to run We'll Make It since most other healing will be done after an unhook.Mringasa, it doesn't work on self healing, nor does it work on healing other people with a med kit. You have to heal other survivors with just your hands, just another reason why the perk needs a fix.
1 -
Dance With Me, Tenacity, Stake Out, Pharmacy, Vigil.Usui said:Like I said a million times, there hasn't been a good survivor perk since David King. Yet killers have been getting at least 1 good perk every single chapter.
Just because Survivors refuse to branch out, doesn't mean their perks suck.
0 -
@Tzeentchling9 said:
Usui said:Like I said a million times, there hasn't been a good survivor perk since David King. Yet killers have been getting at least 1 good perk every single chapter.
Dance With Me, Tenacity, Stake Out, Pharmacy, Vigil.
Just because Survivors refuse to branch out, doesn't mean their perks suck.
Dance with me - one trick pony that requires several perks to work. Even then it’s not good. Tenacity - requires several perks to even have A CHANCE of working. Maybe every ten games... but unbreakable by itself would’ve worked if the killer left you there. Stake out - it just isn’t good. Pharmacy - can’t even go above green, straight up locks it. Also, useless if teammates search chest. It’s chest effects should be added to plunderers, and this should be some healing buff involving medkits. Vigil - used to be useful. Now it ain’t.
Keep in mind there’s tons of perks that have been released with these, with a so many being bad.
5 -
How about...
No negative beginning.
Gain 1 Token, up to 1/2/3 Token(s), for fully healing another Survivor.
Each Token increases both the Skill Check chance and the amount a Good- & Great Skill Check heals by [VALUE]%.2 -
Sounds like Survivors just want four perks that each win them the game on their own.Jack11803 said:@Tzeentchling9 said:
Usui said:Like I said a million times, there hasn't been a good survivor perk since David King. Yet killers have been getting at least 1 good perk every single chapter.
Dance With Me, Tenacity, Stake Out, Pharmacy, Vigil.
Just because Survivors refuse to branch out, doesn't mean their perks suck.
Dance with me - one trick pony that requires several perks to work. Even then it’s not good. Tenacity - requires several perks to even have A CHANCE of working. Maybe every ten games... but unbreakable by itself would’ve worked if the killer left you there. Stake out - it just isn’t good. Pharmacy - can’t even go above green, straight up locks it. Also, useless if teammates search chest. It’s chest effects should be added to plunderers, and this should be some healing buff involving medkits. Vigil - used to be useful. Now it ain’t.
Keep in mind there’s tons of perks that have been released with these, with a so many being bad.
Tenacity works everytime on it's own whenever the killer decides to slug unless they have Deerstalker. Unbreakable only works once and requires the killer to come back to the same location. Tenacity let's you lose the killer on the ground and get picked up quickly later.
Stake Out does real work. Turning every skill check into a 5% increase of progress. It destroys all these camping and three gen strats Survivors keep complaining about.
Pharmacy also doesn't drop below a Green either. Not to mention it protects you from the very unsafe location in the box with faster and quieter actions.
Vigil still does exactly what it's supposed to do. Just because you can't use it to kite the killer forever anymore doesn't mean it's a bad perk.
Killers also got complete blanks as far perk go.1 -
Actually, all 3 of the killer perks are actually really good!Tzeentchling9 said:
Sounds like Survivors just want four perks that each win them the game on their own.Jack11803 said:@Tzeentchling9 said:
Usui said:Like I said a million times, there hasn't been a good survivor perk since David King. Yet killers have been getting at least 1 good perk every single chapter.
Dance With Me, Tenacity, Stake Out, Pharmacy, Vigil.
Just because Survivors refuse to branch out, doesn't mean their perks suck.
Dance with me - one trick pony that requires several perks to work. Even then it’s not good. Tenacity - requires several perks to even have A CHANCE of working. Maybe every ten games... but unbreakable by itself would’ve worked if the killer left you there. Stake out - it just isn’t good. Pharmacy - can’t even go above green, straight up locks it. Also, useless if teammates search chest. It’s chest effects should be added to plunderers, and this should be some healing buff involving medkits. Vigil - used to be useful. Now it ain’t.
Keep in mind there’s tons of perks that have been released with these, with a so many being bad.
Tenacity works everytime on it's own whenever the killer decides to slug unless they have Deerstalker. Unbreakable only works once and requires the killer to come back to the same location. Tenacity let's you lose the killer on the ground and get picked up quickly later.
Stake Out does real work. Turning every skill check into a 5% increase of progress. It destroys all these camping and three gen strats Survivors keep complaining about.
Pharmacy also doesn't drop below a Green either. Not to mention it protects you from the very unsafe location in the box with faster and quieter actions.
Vigil still does exactly what it's supposed to do. Just because you can't use it to kite the killer forever anymore doesn't mean it's a bad perk.
Killers also got complete blanks as far perk go.
Rancor punishes survivors who use obsession based perks such as DS since it increases your chances of becoming the killer's obsession.
Haunted Grounds is a great perk to discourage survivors from destroying hex totems since you'll never know if it's a trap.
Spirit Fury is great on M1 killers and if you have Enduring, you can do some nasty combos.1 -
This content has been removed.
-
0
-
Yea i used it and i have it at t3 and i got up to 4 tokens and... The game was over. Never really got to use it.0
-
I've been using this perk since the chapter release and so far I only killed few people with it (I try to heal a teammate after unhooking, killer comes and skillcheck appears while I have 0-1 tokens). No sick insta-heal plays. Only killing my teammates. I've never seen a perk that would harm your team this hard since no mither.
0 -
@FunC said:
I've been using this perk since the chapter release and so far I only killed few people with it (trying to heal after the unhook, killer is coming and skillcheck appears while I have 0-1 tokens). No sick insta-heal plays. Only killing my teammates. I've never seen a perk that would harm your team this hard since no mither.Yup I've had a few scenarios like that, if only I didn't have the negative I could've healed them.
2 -
This content has been removed.
-
Yeah, on the other hand if people want to do true "hardmode" builds then Autodidact 1 is perfect for that as it makes all your skill checks only slightly better than great ones after you do like 3.
1 -
@UncannyLuck said:
Yeah, on the other hand if people want to do true "hardmode" builds then Autodidact 1 is perfect for that as it makes all your skill checks only slightly better than great ones after you do like 3.Well, if you take a perk that's not supposed to be a challenge and say it's a challenge perk further proves as to why it's not a good perk. Since it's not supposed to be a challenge perk, it needs to be reworked. But, yes, you can use it as a challenge perk in its current state
1 -
@UncannyLuck said:
Yeah, on the other hand if people want to do true "hardmode" builds then Autodidact 1 is perfect for that as it makes all your skill checks only slightly better than great ones after you do like 3.It doesn’t even effect you, just sandbags teammates. I’d totally farm you off the hook if you did that to me.
1 -
It was a perk I think meant for the altruistic Claudette types...HaterMcTater said:INTORDUCTION:
Autodidact is a very cool premise for a perk and I love it. I feel that more perks should have a push and pull effect to it. What I mean is, you start by being penalized and slowly start to buff your self up as the match goes on. With autodidact, you start with a -25% on healing progression and it removes the ability to hit great skillchecks. The up side for this perk is that you gain an extra 15% for everytime you hit a healing skillcheck. These are measured in tokens as you can have 3/4/5 tokens depending on what tier of the perk you have. So if you have all 5 tokens, every healing skillcheck is +50% automatically to the healing bar which is amazing. However, the issue is that is usually never happens.EXPERIMENT AND RESULTS
I ran some experiments within trials to see on average you get this many tokens. As a control group, I used 20 matches, each time I had tier 3 Autodidact, here are the results in order; 2t, 3t, 3t, 2t, 1t, 0t, 2t, 3t, 4t, 3t, 2t, 2t, 2t, 1t, 1t, 0t, 2t, 3t, 2t, 1t. On average, I had about 2 tokens (1.95 to be exact) per match. This is dissapointing as that means I was NEGATIVELY impacted on average everytime I brought this perk. Once you hit 3 tokens, you begin to see some of the upsides, but that requires you to be healing other survivors and getting more skillchecks. The other downside to this is RNG, this whole perk RELEIS on RNG. Wether or not you get a skillcheck is completely RNG, in some matches I fully healed 2 survivors with the mangled status and never triggered a skillcheck, meaning, no benefit. But when I did get a skillcheck, it only negatively impacted the survivor I was healing and never got a benefit. On average, every match you bring autodidact, you are hurting your team. I should also mention im rank 1, so matches go by quickly, meaning, this slow burn perk is almost completely useless. Not to mention, using We'll Make It can heal faster than a t3 Autodidact perk with 5 tokens can.HOW I WOULD CHANGE IT
As it is, autodidact is almost completely useless. With the recent nerf it receieved from the PTB, it's hard to say why anyone would use the perk. While it's concept is interesting (as stated earlier) the flaws are hard to ignore. In response to this issue, I would suggest these main changes. 1. Allow skillchecks to appear while healing other survivors with a med kit. Trust me, this wont break the game and make this perk "op", it's simply to allow med kits with needle addons to increase the chances of presenting a skillcheck while also increasing the rate you heal survivors by slightly. 2. Increase the rate at which skillchecks appear. The RNG is too much to handle with this perk, it can make or break your experience with this perk. To combat this, simply up the rates at which you are given skillchecks to help push survivors out of the penalization area of their tokens As long as survivors get 4-5 tokens, the perk becomes worth it. 3. Give it a point bonus towards Altruism. If you want survivors to use a perk that will hinder them before rewarding them, give them a little insentive. Blood Point bonuses dont affect the trial itself, but help motivate survivors to bring this perk. And finally, 4. Allow survivors to gain tokens from self care, give them the healing progression penalty, and dont give them benefits. If you allow tokens to be obtained off of yourself, you are able to gain more tokens while using this perk while not providing benefits to yourself. Since the whole premise of this perk is to learn overtime, using yourself as practice isn't a bad idea. You can provide yourself with tokens so that you may use your new found skill on other survivors.CONCLUSION
As much as I like autodidact, it kind of sucks. With these chanegs I suggested, it could become one of the greatest altruism perks without being considered as unfair to fight against. I'd like to hear any complaints or discussions anyone can provide, im always open to discussing the perk!0 -
Why would anyone use Autodictact? So many superior perks0
-
Survivors don't realise that their meta perks are absurdly broken and they're never getting perks that strong again.1
-
I'd agree with adding a __% higher chance to get a skillcheck each tier like unnerving presence. Of course, as to not nerf Freddy, that skillcheck chance won't apply to healing yourself.0
-
@yeet said:
Survivors don't realise that their meta perks are absurdly broken and they're never getting perks that strong again.I'm a survivor main; I find it more enjoyable, but I also play killer. When I say perks like these need buffing, it's to add incentive to pick these kind of perks OVER meta perks. If you're tired of survivors running the same annoying perks in your killer lobbies, then that's why perks like these need fixing, to be used over the annoying meta perks. Not to mention, it's designed to slow down the game and give survivors other things to focus on rather than just generators. If you're saying this perk shouldn't be fixed, you're agreeing that survivors should only focus on generators, especially since the games go by so fast. If you don't want that to happen, it's why we need autodidact to be fixed and other perks to follow it's lead of getting survivors extra tasks to do.
3 -
Why don't we just nerf the absurdly powerful meta perks?HaterMcTater said:@yeet said:
Survivors don't realise that their meta perks are absurdly broken and they're never getting perks that strong again.I'm a survivor main; I find it more enjoyable, but I also play killer. When I say perks like these need buffing, it's to add incentive to pick these kind of perks OVER meta perks. If you're tired of survivors running the same annoying perks in your killer lobbies, then that's why perks like these need fixing, to be used over the annoying meta perks. Not to mention, it's designed to slow down the game and give survivors other things to focus on rather than just generators. If you're saying this perk shouldn't be fixed, you're agreeing that survivors should only focus on generators, especially since the games go by so fast. If you don't want that to happen, it's why we need autodidact to be fixed and other perks to follow it's lead of getting survivors extra tasks to do.
0 -
@yeet said:
HaterMcTater said:@yeet said:
Survivors don't realise that their meta perks are absurdly broken and they're never getting perks that strong again.
I'm a survivor main; I find it more enjoyable, but I also play killer. When I say perks like these need buffing, it's to add incentive to pick these kind of perks OVER meta perks. If you're tired of survivors running the same annoying perks in your killer lobbies, then that's why perks like these need fixing, to be used over the annoying meta perks. Not to mention, it's designed to slow down the game and give survivors other things to focus on rather than just generators. If you're saying this perk shouldn't be fixed, you're agreeing that survivors should only focus on generators, especially since the games go by so fast. If you don't want that to happen, it's why we need autodidact to be fixed and other perks to follow it's lead of getting survivors extra tasks to do.
Why don't we just nerf the absurdly powerful meta perks?
It's been done already, exhaustion perks have been nerfed, decisive strike is being nerfed, sabotage was nerfed, etc. Instead of nerfing every perk, making other perks viable give more options to pick from while giving survivors options of what to do. Autodidact rewards survivors for leaving gens and focusing on healing, meanwhile, you can nerf decisive strike but survivors still do gens. That's why it's important to give survivors a choice of what else they can do with their time to slow down gens.
1 -
Huh?Usui said:Like I said a million times, there hasn't been a good survivor perk since David King. Yet killers have been getting at least 1 good perk every single chapter.
Vigil and Pharmacy are good. Vigil was nerfed with the Exhaustion change, but hey it’s still better than Surveillance.
All three Tapp perks are good. I run Detectives Hunch in my setup, it’s amazing.
I dont care for the window and pallet aura perk (forgot its name) but it’s good for newer players and “runners”. I use Boil Over sometimes. In some maps it legit gets you off killers shoulders easy. Dance is another good perk with the correct setup. As a killer main, it legit confuses the ****out of me sometimes.
Deliverance gives you a guaranteed self unhook just for getting a safe rescue. It’s a great perk. The pebble perk sucks and Autodidact is in a bad spot but can be amazing if adjusted.
The problem is most of these perks don’t replace the ultra good meta perks for many people so they’re considered trash. But in reality there are good perks there, just require some thought to be put into your builds.
Not to mention, you could say killer perks have been all trash for awhile too. It’s all about personal opinion.1 -
@Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
Usui said:Like I said a million times, there hasn't been a good survivor perk since David King. Yet killers have been getting at least 1 good perk every single chapter.
Huh?
Vigil and Pharmacy are good. Vigil was nerfed with the Exhaustion change, but hey it’s still better than Surveillance.
All three Tapp perks are good. I run Detectives Hunch in my setup, it’s amazing.
I dont care for the window and pallet aura perk (forgot its name) but it’s good for newer players and “runners”. I use Boil Over sometimes. In some maps it legit gets you off killers shoulders easy. Dance is another good perk with the correct setup. As a killer main, it legit confuses the ****out of me sometimes.
Deliverance gives you a guaranteed self unhook just for getting a safe rescue. It’s a great perk. The pebble perk sucks and Autodidact is in a bad spot but can be amazing if adjusted.
The problem is most of these perks don’t replace the ultra good meta perks for many people so they’re considered trash. But in reality there are good perks there, just require some thought to be put into your builds.
Not to mention, you could say killer perks have been all trash for awhile too. It’s all about personal opinion.
I agree completely. Perks shouldn't be made or designed to be "meta" they should be designed to compliment different builds or give survivors more options. These perks can be argued that they're not as good as meta, which is obviously true, meta is meta for a reason. However, a perk doesn't need to be meta to be good. I love deliverance, but it doesn't mean its meta. That's why I wish autodidact needs to be fixed, it's a very interesting perk that rewards doing options instead of gens.
0 -
Its meant to be used as a dedicated healer, someone that runs empathy and saves people and heals them.
I think that should reduce the penalty but reduce the max bonus.
It should also give some extra skill checks at the cost of being much harder as you get stacks.0 -
It's situational. I wouldn't say bad, if you can get the tokens. You just have to do so earlier on when you can afford it. I had a survivor go down and killer chased someone else but because I had autodidact I was able to quickly pick them up and we both escaped. It's situational, but nonetheless a fun perk to use and in the situation amazing.0
-
They where "nerfed" yet they're still absurd 🤔HaterMcTater said:@yeet said:
HaterMcTater said:@yeet said:
Survivors don't realise that their meta perks are absurdly broken and they're never getting perks that strong again.
I'm a survivor main; I find it more enjoyable, but I also play killer. When I say perks like these need buffing, it's to add incentive to pick these kind of perks OVER meta perks. If you're tired of survivors running the same annoying perks in your killer lobbies, then that's why perks like these need fixing, to be used over the annoying meta perks. Not to mention, it's designed to slow down the game and give survivors other things to focus on rather than just generators. If you're saying this perk shouldn't be fixed, you're agreeing that survivors should only focus on generators, especially since the games go by so fast. If you don't want that to happen, it's why we need autodidact to be fixed and other perks to follow it's lead of getting survivors extra tasks to do.
Why don't we just nerf the absurdly powerful meta perks?
It's been done already, exhaustion perks have been nerfed, decisive strike is being nerfed, sabotage was nerfed, etc. Instead of nerfing every perk, making other perks viable give more options to pick from while giving survivors options of what to do. Autodidact rewards survivors for leaving gens and focusing on healing, meanwhile, you can nerf decisive strike but survivors still do gens. That's why it's important to give survivors a choice of what else they can do with their time to slow down gens.
0 -
@yeet said:
HaterMcTater said:@yeet said:
HaterMcTater said:
@yeet said: Survivors don't realise that their meta perks are absurdly broken and they're never getting perks that strong again. I'm a survivor main; I find it more enjoyable, but I also play killer. When I say perks like these need buffing, it's to add incentive to pick these kind of perks OVER meta perks. If you're tired of survivors running the same annoying perks in your killer lobbies, then that's why perks like these need fixing, to be used over the annoying meta perks. Not to mention, it's designed to slow down the game and give survivors other things to focus on rather than just generators. If you're saying this perk shouldn't be fixed, you're agreeing that survivors should only focus on generators, especially since the games go by so fast. If you don't want that to happen, it's why we need autodidact to be fixed and other perks to follow it's lead of getting survivors extra tasks to do.
Why don't we just nerf the absurdly powerful meta perks?
It's been done already, exhaustion perks have been nerfed, decisive strike is being nerfed, sabotage was nerfed, etc. Instead of nerfing every perk, making other perks viable give more options to pick from while giving survivors options of what to do. Autodidact rewards survivors for leaving gens and focusing on healing, meanwhile, you can nerf decisive strike but survivors still do gens. That's why it's important to give survivors a choice of what else they can do with their time to slow down gens.
They where "nerfed" yet they're still absurd 🤔
Well, tell me this, would you prefer sprint burst now where there would use it once and can't in a chase, or sprint burst with vigil where they got it every 32 seconds, despite running or being in chased. I would say they seriously fixed it by nerfing it.
0 -
It relies on skill checks... run spine chill, empathy with it this is what I wanna try maybe with BT or we'll make it...
0 -
@Bravo0413 said:
It relies on skill checks... run spine chill, empathy with it this is what I wanna try maybe with BT or we'll make it...With spine chill, it does increase skillchecks by 10%, however, you're still at the mercy of RNG and requires the killer to be within 24 meters of you, which is unsafe to heal, especially with negative impacting healing. Empathy seems decent, but if a survivor is injured, odds are they're being chased (at rank 1, injured survivors don't usually lose killers often enough for this to make an impact). Borrowed time is a good altruism perk in general, but if killer is close enough to proctor, it's not a good idea to heal anyways (similar to spine chill), then We'll Make It is another great altruism perk, but faster healing means less skillchecks, meaning it'll take even longer to build tokens. Part of the issue with autodidact is that it takes too long and by the time it begins gaining momentum, the match is almost/already over.
0 -
I agree Autodidact is basically useless in its current state - actually does more harm than good. I like OP's suggestions, except self-heal. Applying it to SC/medkit self-heal would make it too strong. Mostly, the numbers must be fixed. That should be enough.0
-
@HaterMcTater said:
@yeet said:
HaterMcTater said:@yeet said:
HaterMcTater said:
@yeet said: Survivors don't realise that their meta perks are absurdly broken and they're never getting perks that strong again. I'm a survivor main; I find it more enjoyable, but I also play killer. When I say perks like these need buffing, it's to add incentive to pick these kind of perks OVER meta perks. If you're tired of survivors running the same annoying perks in your killer lobbies, then that's why perks like these need fixing, to be used over the annoying meta perks. Not to mention, it's designed to slow down the game and give survivors other things to focus on rather than just generators. If you're saying this perk shouldn't be fixed, you're agreeing that survivors should only focus on generators, especially since the games go by so fast. If you don't want that to happen, it's why we need autodidact to be fixed and other perks to follow it's lead of getting survivors extra tasks to do.
Why don't we just nerf the absurdly powerful meta perks?
It's been done already, exhaustion perks have been nerfed, decisive strike is being nerfed, sabotage was nerfed, etc. Instead of nerfing every perk, making other perks viable give more options to pick from while giving survivors options of what to do. Autodidact rewards survivors for leaving gens and focusing on healing, meanwhile, you can nerf decisive strike but survivors still do gens. That's why it's important to give survivors a choice of what else they can do with their time to slow down gens.
They where "nerfed" yet they're still absurd 🤔
Well, tell me this, would you prefer sprint burst now where there would use it once and can't in a chase, or sprint burst with vigil where they got it every 32 seconds, despite running or being in chased. I would say they seriously fixed it by nerfing it.
didn't fix the core issue that sprint burst is a free escape from a misposition by a survivor, its a get out of jail free card
0 -
@HaterMcTater said:
INTORDUCTION:
Autodidact is a very cool premise for a perk and I love it. I feel that more perks should have a push and pull effect to it. What I mean is, you start by being penalized and slowly start to buff your self up as the match goes on. With autodidact, you start with a -25% on healing progression and it removes the ability to hit great skillchecks. The up side for this perk is that you gain an extra 15% for everytime you hit a healing skillcheck. These are measured in tokens as you can have 3/4/5 tokens depending on what tier of the perk you have. So if you have all 5 tokens, every healing skillcheck is +50% automatically to the healing bar which is amazing. However, the issue is that is usually never happens.EXPERIMENT AND RESULTS
I ran some experiments within trials to see on average you get this many tokens. As a control group, I used 20 matches, each time I had tier 3 Autodidact, here are the results in order; 2t, 3t, 3t, 2t, 1t, 0t, 2t, 3t, 4t, 3t, 2t, 2t, 2t, 1t, 1t, 0t, 2t, 3t, 2t, 1t. On average, I had about 2 tokens (1.95 to be exact) per match. This is dissapointing as that means I was NEGATIVELY impacted on average everytime I brought this perk. Once you hit 3 tokens, you begin to see some of the upsides, but that requires you to be healing other survivors and getting more skillchecks. The other downside to this is RNG, this whole perk RELEIS on RNG. Wether or not you get a skillcheck is completely RNG, in some matches I fully healed 2 survivors with the mangled status and never triggered a skillcheck, meaning, no benefit. But when I did get a skillcheck, it only negatively impacted the survivor I was healing and never got a benefit. On average, every match you bring autodidact, you are hurting your team. I should also mention im rank 1, so matches go by quickly, meaning, this slow burn perk is almost completely useless. Not to mention, using We'll Make It can heal faster than a t3 Autodidact perk with 5 tokens can.HOW I WOULD CHANGE IT
As it is, autodidact is almost completely useless. With the recent nerf it receieved from the PTB, it's hard to say why anyone would use the perk. While it's concept is interesting (as stated earlier) the flaws are hard to ignore. In response to this issue, I would suggest these main changes. 1. Allow skillchecks to appear while healing other survivors with a med kit. Trust me, this wont break the game and make this perk "op", it's simply to allow med kits with needle addons to increase the chances of presenting a skillcheck while also increasing the rate you heal survivors by slightly. 2. Increase the rate at which skillchecks appear. The RNG is too much to handle with this perk, it can make or break your experience with this perk. To combat this, simply up the rates at which you are given skillchecks to help push survivors out of the penalization area of their tokens As long as survivors get 4-5 tokens, the perk becomes worth it. 3. Give it a point bonus towards Altruism. If you want survivors to use a perk that will hinder them before rewarding them, give them a little insentive. Blood Point bonuses dont affect the trial itself, but help motivate survivors to bring this perk. And finally, 4. Allow survivors to gain tokens from self care, give them the healing progression penalty, and dont give them benefits. If you allow tokens to be obtained off of yourself, you are able to gain more tokens while using this perk while not providing benefits to yourself. Since the whole premise of this perk is to learn overtime, using yourself as practice isn't a bad idea. You can provide yourself with tokens so that you may use your new found skill on other survivors.CONCLUSION
As much as I like autodidact, it kind of sucks. With these chanegs I suggested, it could become one of the greatest altruism perks without being considered as unfair to fight against. I'd like to hear any complaints or discussions anyone can provide, im always open to discussing the perk!i like youre idea and we all agree at each chapter killers are getting good perks but survivor no except david king perks audidact was good and i like it in the PTB it will be good for a new meta for survivor but of course they still nerf alot of survivors and buff killers and if they continue like this i will not even play the game and the next patch they will nerf more survivor healing so they need to THINK use they head and how to make balance to survivor and balance its not nerfing its buffing for got sake
0 -
Well first off, this post isn't about any other perk except for Autodidact, so this will be the last time I talk about this. The "core issue" is the core of the perk, if you would want it nerfed to your certain way, the perk would require a complete overhaul. Personally, I think sprint burst is balanced, I play killer too and it doesn't bother me. The reason I think it's balanced is because 1. Survivors need to walk everywhere to conserve it, it's a huge waste of time on the survivors part 2. You can no longer use it more than once in a chase, before, everyone ran vigil with it and got sprint burst every 32 seconds, you would've never been able to catch the survivor if they knew how to loop. And 3. A survivor could have sprint burst, but it won't help them, skilled killers can kite a SB survivor into the open instead of running a loop, or even in some cases, killer can hit them while using SB. This perk is not "op", it may be annoying for you, but it's a lot better in it's current state than it was only a few patches ago. When playing killer, I sure am glad that SB isn't what it used to be.
0 -
What is the longest nail on Autodidacts coffin for me is Self Care. 90% of people use it and refuse to let others heal them so they can keep those sweet BP for themselves.
Remove the BP of SC and increase the reward for healing others to 500.0 -
I see Autodictact as being a bit like the killer's Devour Hope Hex.
Sure, it does nothing for you most of the match, even seems to put you behind. But once fully powered, it's a game changer. Just as a single Mori or even just a one-hit down in a match can shift the momentum in favor of the killer, a fully-powered fast heal shifts the momentum in favor of the survivors.
You can't just look at the raw numbers, it doesn't tell the whole story. Much like a killer's Hex perk, you are taking on a negative to get raw power later in the game when it's most needed. It could be what you need to break yourself out of any late game heal-loop the killer has put you in...
0
