Killers aren't faultless for DS
Pretty simple, people get tunneled off hooks so they run DS. which gives them the ability to use it in the ways killers hate i.e. baiting grabs and such, or "making mistakes." Not saying there wont be people who run it anyway, but if killers look to your tunneling brethren and say cut it out then you will probably run into fewer DS.
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"Cut it out."
"No."
Well, that didn't work.
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Hey guys, this totally worked when I told my fellow survivors, "Hey, do gens"!!
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But there's some games where tunneling is necessary to play catch-up because you're losing, because of mistakes you made or otherwise, In which case 4 people running DS creates and unwinnable game.
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Survivors should not get 60 seconds of invincibility because they have a funny perk, all they have to do is make it so it only activates if you are in the killers terror radius
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You can’t use that as a justifiable argument to not run DS
l made mistakes during a game which is now leading me to tunnel.
This is the exact reason people do run DS.
It would like a survivor saying “l just missed a skill check on the gen, please don’t use pop on it”
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that won't work with killers with insidious, wraith, tier 1 Myers, Ghost face while cloaked, or pig
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I was Blight, had Noed, at EGC, David already made early escape.
Able to down a Clau, 2nd hook her. Then chase a Feng, down Feng, last hook her. Noed destroyed. I was at the only opened gate, healthy Dwight tried real hard to take my attention around a pallet loops near the gate, which I did. Took around 15sec for him just to run toward and get a hit then escape.
Then Clau came, EGC is near to the end, she just run toward me, get hit, down. Pick up, DS. She tbag for a full 5sec stun. Then deadhard to the gate.
Chase Feng, down and hook. Loops with Dwight after he destroy Noed. Thats 60sec for you.
I saw people do Gen in mid chase in order to get grab instead of get hit.
DS is needed, I think it should be basekit, but not work like how it is.
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Pop is such an overrated perk, I'd be like "Yes! Please use Pop!"
Unless you're psychic, you never truly know if someone has DS. Playing around DS when people don't have it, or betting on them not having it and then they hit you with it, are game losing plays. That is why I dislike DS, or at least the fact that there is zero indication of its use. When it first came out, people were enraged about being hit by non-obsession DS, but now it's become a normal everyday thing. But it shouldn't be considered normal and people should still be outraged by it.
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Ds alone is not the problem..The problem is..They use DS...then they use deadhard..Then another perk and another perk..And then their teamates break a hook and they got the perks that let them wiggle out quicker..And flip-flop and now the one where they can drop pallets while being moved and perks where they can get up If they are in a dying state.
The ammount of "Escape" perks is a tad high and somehow have more verity then other perks. Like how many different ways can you have "I get out faster"..Yet, any perk which a Killer can one shot needs to be a hex or It is op...Even,If It runs on tokens. Just, give me a perk If I get stuns 3 times I can down someone on my next hit
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Survivors aren't faultless for getting tunneled/camped.
Pretty simple. People make unsafe saves, they hide, they do gens too fast, or they get in places the killer cannot reach by normal means. Not saying there won't be people who tunnel and camp anyway, but if Survivors started being better teammates and took the agro and sometimes even give up a hit so the killer doesn't just give up and say "Meh, I'll go take out the weakest link instead." you'd probably see less camping and tunneling.
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Not their fault that a killer goes in to "desperation" mode and NEEDS to start tunneling.
Is it really their fault a killer needs to start tunneling? Are there areas the killer can start improving on before going on full tunnel mode because he's losing the game?
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You're assuming the killer has room for improvement. Sometimes you play flawless, or make 1 mistake, and you still lose as killer. Maybe it's the survivors' fault that the killer goes into tunnel mode, but winning vs not winning necessitates that the killer tunnels or slugs for momentum. You do these things, like face camping someone once the exits are powered, because not doing so is a guaranteed loss and doing so increases your chances of getting more kills. A killer does not go through the 7 stages of toxicity in order to tunnel. He does it because he needs to.
If you're the survivor, you'll call the killer cheap or toxic for tunneling. But to an outsider looking in, it is simply the smart thing to do if the killer JUST wants that kill. Tunneling hurts killers in the long run, especially against coordinated teams. If a survivor knows a killer is tunneling, he will do gens because the killer can't tunnel and keep pressure on everyone. By the time the killer has tunneled the survivor out of the game, the gates are open and everyone else is out. Tunneling is in a good place right now. Enough to guarantee a kill, but not enough to guarantee 4.
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Your point and other people's points share the same issue though, saying let me hang out on the hook pop 5 gens and get out is a viable option if people can talk because they are a swf. Likewise, another point was made to get better teammates...aka a swf, however swfs are the devil in the eyes of killers here. So you want us to be a SWF without being a SWF. If survivor mains do all the suggested things by killer mains here then it will actually lead to more tunneling, furthering the need for DS.
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I dont really care about killers who stare at a surv at the end of the game because they are losing and want their consolation kill. its the ones that right out the gate get a survivor down and tunnel them right out of the game. With 20min queue times, giving someone 90s of playing is rough. at least DS gets em another 60s.
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You guys aren't saying please. That's why it isn't working smh
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I know, and I dont care
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DS is fine. but if 4 survivors runs DC its a massive problem, combined with BT
Higher rank every survivor runs almost DS every time, and it gets annoying real fast. i just play insidious bubba to counter it
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Yep. DS, BT, and Unbreakable are more so the Killer's fault than anything. Do I get slapped in the face with these when I feel it's unjust at times, heck yes! I typically avoid them cause I don't play that sweaty and unfun however. I personally am in the boat that BT and Unbreakable are fine. I don't really like DS, but it's a necessary evil as long as many (bad or toxic) Killers attempt to camp/tunnel out a player from actually playing the match.
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My issue today was I down survivor, I hook survivor and another survivor waits for animation to finish to then get save. I go to hit the hook farmer because #########, and then the unhooked body blocks because they have bt active and then they immediately jump into a locker.
this repeated multiple times and one even had a soul guard+unbreakable+bt+ds combo.
this is the kind of stuff people talk about when they talk about fixing infinite chances perks.
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You shouldn't be able to just instantly resort to tunneling and camping when you are loosing though. that's like playing a racing game and teleporting to the front when you are loosing.
I do think you should be able to tunnel and camp BUT there should be heavy punishments and tradeoffs for it, so that you are required to carefully decide when you should and shouldn't use these strategies and so that it's not an instant resort when you are loosing.
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But but its your fault. Why didnt you go across the map screaming lalala. Camping tunneling killer main. /s
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Why don’t we put DS back to how it was originally. Then we’ll see how that goes shall we.
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Lol, INVINCIBILITY, are you kidding. DS gives them a few seconds to limp 5 steps from you, it is one-time use, and generally people intent on tunneling the crap outta someone just catch them again, and then on the hook they go. Talking about DS or BT like it is super OP is ridiculous. I play killer (less than survivor) but generally when I am so stressed from waiting 20 minutes to be tunneled out of a game in 3 minutes I decide to have a break. And I do not tunnel people, ever, and you know what I have never been DSd that I can think of. It does not bother me in the least because I do not play like a sweaty jerk, so I just literally never see it. I think killers who complain the loudest about those 2 perks should look a how they play before coming in here to screech at survivors that it is unfair.
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Ah but if killers weren't playing hot camp n' tunnel every match everyone could run something other than 2nd chance perks. I prefer not to run DS or BT but the sweatier this game gets the more cornered survivors are with what they can run and actually get out of a match. Killers have all kinds of interesting builds they can try, but survivors have less and less options because camp, tunnel, slug is just where the devs have taken the game, and it is the same thing every match (with the exception of farming, but that doesn't count). At this point I am not even really blaming killers, the devs have not only turned a blind eye to this kind of behavior that used to be frowned upon but currently are actively promoting it. So IDK, really I am just waiting for some other similar game to drop.
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Ime the way The Killer plays dictates a lot of how the trial will play out. The big issue is that most killers want to circumvent DS, so people bring Unbreakable. The circumvention efforts also results in people wanting to gain utility out of this one-time use perk, so they go out of their way to redeem it. I see it all the time with streamers, the same ones that cry and complain about DS. They openly tunnel, then leave the person slugged on the floor to bypass DS with gusto and if that person were to dare to do something bold like finish a generator or go in a locker or a rescue, the person is up in arms about how outrageous and the nerve of that survivor. If you go out of your way to circumvent DS, don't be surprised when survivors go out of their way to gain usage out of it.
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apparently a new left for dead style game is in alpha right now. Miss the days of LFD2
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I had some games with the person playing killer proxy camping and tunneling. One was saying it was the survivors fault because no one brought ds. I am still very disgusted from that person when I think about their statement.
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You're brave to post this here... Most of the inhabitants would eat you alive for such knowledge.
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i mean the LFD devs and the devs of this game are friends, hence why there are extra LFD skins and such.
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That's how the game is designed, you want someone out the game asap the same way you want a gen done asap. Its not killers fault for playing well, its the games fault for being designed in a way that tunneling is optimal.
Might as well also ask survivors to not do gens all the way and stop and work on a different one once they hit 33%. If both sides ease up on their objective then tunneling would be less of an issue. If you want killers to play poorly on purpose so you can have more fun survivors need to do it too.
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didnt say dont do it, but dont do it then complain about DS or unbreakable...
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Telling them not to isn't gonna work, sadly. But you have a point, killers who tunnel the first survivor into the ground when there's no obsession have no right to complain about DS
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DS in its current design is an absolute joke. I shouldn’t be able to hook someone, then leave, have that person get unhooked, I chase someone else and down them, hook them and then go back to that first person, fully healed, down them, and they still have DS. It happens to me at least once a game, it’s an absolute joke. It’s not anti tunnel at all, it’s invulnerability from getting hooked for a minute and ur either stupid or lying if you say otherwise. It shouldn’t be removed from the game but it should deactivate if you interact with a gen or get fully healed. Or it should only activate if the killer is standing within like 26 meters of the hook when you are unhooked. If you actually disagree with either or those suggestions then ur clearly fishing for a way to cheat sucking...
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I've been playing DBD for almost 3 years now and never ran DS for at least the first 2. After I switched from console to PC at the end of 2019, I keep it on all the time because of killers who intentionally tunnel when there is no reason to. I can loop the killer well so a lot of them get angry and tunnel me off hook just because they want me out of the game. I shouldn't have to run a perk because of the way some killers play but I do because it isn't fun being thrown on hook, farmed in solo queue, instantly downed and put back on hook.
Don't get me wrong, I play killer as well and being gen rushed also sucks and there are times where you need to tunnel but this discussion is about DS which I think is necessary for the game. We all know how it went when they introduced a killer who can tunnel for free.
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Ok so, I'm going to explain my stance a bit more so sorry (I guess) for the amount of text coming up:
If DS only helped against tunneling then sure. But its way more than that, especially when paired with unbreakable. Its pretty much a do-whatever-you-want free card in its current state and warrants criticism.
At the very least it should only affect tunneling as much as possible. Although I don't personally think we should be punishing anyone for playing the way they should be playing if they want to preform well and tryhard, especially when only one side has the tools to punish that type of play.
Part of the issue is anything that punishes tunneling is also punishing optimal play and the way the game design is encouraging killers to play. The design needs to be changed so tunneling can be addressed without punishing the killer for doing what they should be doing if they want to win, but that's probably not happening.
Alternatively you could give killers a perk that just undoes gen progress just because survivors are focusing gens too hard to level the field a little, but that's also probably not happening.
Other possible ways forward if we want the game to improve is either a mass community movement on both sides to make the game more fun for each other (fat chance) or just nerfing DS and/or its combos (much simpler and more likely).
I don't tunnel in my games, but that's a choice I make in how I play. I'm choosing to play sub-optimal because it prefer another playstyle. The whole principle behind DS is just really unfair to people who do want to try and win more than someone like me. Its really a flaw in the game design and instead of fixing it they just punish the players instead. Then we have people who don't tunnel and still get hit with DS.
The perk needs changes or the game does. DS has been a problem since its creation because they're trying to use it to cover up the bad design of the hook/death mechanic from a player enjoyment perspective in any sort of competitive environment. They should have reworked the system a long time ago imo.
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So it wouldn't work against insidious campers. Another useless perk against a boring and annoying playstyle. No thanks.
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Dont mind me just got off the hook and im pushing this 80% gen here. Whats that your gonna slug me what a jerk its ok ill unbreakable. All of these are one use stop complaining its not like there's 4 survivors are running this set up.
Eat the ds what the worse that could happen not like you restart a chase give your allies time to push gens it basically a second heath state for two perks which might seem bad but its incredible what a good survivor can do with one more health state.
Op would you like a game with my 4 man i want to show you exactly how broken ds is.
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60 seconds is a a long time.
I have chasef and downed other survivors, hooked, found the original and downed and been burned by DS. That's ridiculous.
Should be shortened to 30 seconds.
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DS doesn't buy just "few" seconds. It takes killer roughly 25 seconds to catch you up if you keep running straight line, add additional time hooking etc. If you need to wait 20 minutes just to play survivor there are obviously something wrong with killer side.. just saying
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If you're losing then it's because you played badly and don't deserve the victory. Simple as that.
What you're saying is basically that tunneling is necessary to award you an undeserved victory
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We don't use "deserve" in these forums. It's an unspoken rule. You can't say I didn't deserve a kill, just like I can't say those survivors didn't deserve to escape. But there's Tru3's video and countless others that show little to no mistakes on the killer's part, and they barely were able to squeeze out a kill or 2.
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I have seen plenty of games where the killer gets hit with DS without tunneling and it's all because of the survivors are going down to quickly.
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everyone is fine with DS an anti tunneling perk
only survivor mains are fine with 60 seconds of invincibility
the killer absolutely demolishing a team ie 2+ hooks in the same minute and going back to hook the nearest survivor after hooking 2 others should not trigger DS. DS needs deactivation conditions badly we can buff it with all the other things you want like 2 uses, increased time longer stun or whatever but it desperately need to deactivate after the killer hooks another survivor
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XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Tru3's video showing *no mistakes* I actually laughed thanks
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60 seconds for DS and I'm a survivor main. Granted when playing killer and I'm feeling spiteful I'll slug wait the 1min and hook.
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The issue is not 4 ds, ds has an easy counter: slugging or on a hook doesn't have any difference pressure wise. The issue is 4ds and 4ub but again the issue seems more like 4 unbreakable even tho unbreakable is absolutely fine.
I think they should make ds way more riksy: wanna work on a gen after being unhooked? ok but ds gets disabled.
Even the unhooker thing can be abused easily by killers, but the action disable wouldn't be abusable. Wanna keep ds? Ok either heal or do absolutely anything for 60 secs(protection hits included).
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When someone says he's playing perfectly or making no mistake he's legit scamming you. There's no way in hell someone can play a game without a single mistake. And most times many streamers are too arrogant to admit they made mistakes because they need to show off in front of their viewers. He can say that he made less and less serious mistakes than survivors did and yet he lost but saying that he made no mistakes is absolutely disingenous and shows how completely irrelevant all of his claims are.
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Isn't it amazing that one specific perk is used 95% of the games in high ranks and everyone who plays Killer, the first thing we remember when downing someone is "does this guy gave DS?", "oh there's a obsessesion, DS"
Like, why the developers let such a perk have so much importance that every match all Killer needs to remember it. Like you don't ever see someone saying "better be careful with that boil over/buckle up/flip-flop/lucky break/pharmacy/insert any X perk here that isn't in the meta".
That's so wrong, no perk should have that impact on the Killer's gameplay EVERY MATCH.
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Personally i would be happy if it deacivated once exit gates are turned on, if they have DS left and doors are open you literally cannot get that person. you get to let them crawl to the exit because most games they are close enough to one of the exits. by the time you down them again.
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Imagine nerfing PGTW for having too much free time but not DS.
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