What killers need to be changed?
All killers need to be changed in one way or another, so I'm going to list them in order of most in need of looking at to least. I've left spaces in between some to show some things need addressing more than others.
- Clown - Doesn't have a strong enough power
- Plague - Has a power that often does not function well on the servers. I think she should receive the next big rework. Perhaps give her an action speed bonus with infected objects, spread shot vomit instead of corrupt purge, or some sort of teleport/ movement ability.
- Demogorgon - Doesn't have a strong enough power. His add-ons also don't feel great.
- Twins - Has a power with numerous bugs, oversights, and weaknesses. The power also rewards camping, tunneling, and slugging.
- Ghostface - Has an annoying, finicky power. I would make stalk an ability he can always use, and then night's shroud a passive gauge gained when not being looked at that empowers his stalking and stealth. Give him the ability to jump in a locker and teleport to a random location to gain full night's shroud.
- Spirit - Her power needs to be looked at to allow for counter play. A good survivor can keep up a chase and escape, but on certain tiles it is literally just a guessing game of where she's standing in relation to you.
- Shape - Remove the stalking limit or allow survivors to regenerate stalk. It makes for poor game play when sacrificing a survivor makes you loose points and an ability.
- Cannibal - I feel Cannibal is very strong. I would weaken him a bit
- Nightmare - Very Strong killer. needs some weakening.
- Pig - Her power is ok. It doesn't feel like you're doing much. She should get a power rework at some point for the sake of fun and game play.
- Legion - Power feels meh. Should get power changes at some point, but after a lot of other things are addressed first.
- Executioner - Add-ons lack a certain pizazz
- Hag - Don't let her place traps so close to the hook
- Blight - His POV needs to be a bit higher.
- Trapper - Why can't the match just start with all traps open?
Comments
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I am confused by how you use "Her power needs to be looked at to allow for counter play." and "but on certain tiles it is literally just a guessing game" in the same phrase. Literally counter play is having a chance to counter killer's power aka guessing game. You want to counter a killer simply by doing nothing and all the time?
Probably best example would be trapper? which is why he is so bad when people actually decide to go out of their way and "counter" his power then he becomes a m1 killer whole game. Luckly there is a lot of bad swf and solo players so it doesn't happen too often but you see how it is a horrible idea to let survivors counter a killer's whole power simply by doing nothing but holding m1 etc.
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I wouldn't really touch Leatherface.
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I think spirit should show glimpses of her current location every 1.5 seconds or 2 seconds. I think that would make her a lot more balanced.
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People will cry about Spirit and PH and such but I think Freddy needs a change, he doesn't need to be made weaker, just require more skill to make use of his kit. He is just brain dead easy and he is also a high tier killer to boot, between his skill floor and base kit power he is easily the strongest killer in the game by a long shot. In short, he's just to stupidly easy to play for how much value he gets, raise the skill floor of him.
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A guessing game is no counterplay. Especially since it is one-sided, a Spirit with Stridor does not need to guess.
@Topic:
- Clown - Doesn't have a strong enough power
Clown will get the next Rework (possibly next Mid-Chapter)
- Plague - Has a power that often does not function well on the servers. I think she should receive the next big rework. Perhaps give her an action speed bonus with infected objects, spread shot vomit instead of corrupt purge, or some sort of teleport/ movement ability.
IMO Plague should get more benefit from infected Survivors (Debuff, going down after X amount of time, etc.) and Nerfs to her Corrupt Purge (si that one person cleansing cannot kill the whole team). This is her biggest problem, sometimes she does not have access to her power, and when she does, this Power is super-strong. The Dedicated Server-Issues with her shold be solved as well, puke that hits and does no damage is as common as puke that does not hit and does damage.
- Demogorgon - Doesn't have a strong enough power. His add-ons also don't feel great.
Demos Power is really fine. He needs Rat Liver as Basekit and his Add Ons should be reworked. But he is a solid Killer at base. (Devs are also going over Demogorgon soonish)
- Ghostface - Has an annoying, finicky power. I would make stalk an ability he can always use, and then night's shroud a passive gauge gained when not being looked at that empowers his stalking and stealth. Give him the ability to jump in a locker and teleport to a random location to gain full night's shroud.
Ghostface should function correctly. Thats his biggest issue. This "Cannot be broken out in open field" or "Can be broken out behind walls" needs to end.
- Shape - Remove the stalking limit or allow survivors to regenerate stalk. It makes for poor game play when sacrificing a survivor makes you loose points and an ability.
Myers is a Killer who got powercreeped. Years ago when looking at Tier Lists, most people put him as a solid A-Tier Killer, now he gets a low B at best. IMO the biggest change should be to do something about his TIer 1, like a passive Build-Up like Oni to get faster out of Tier 1. Stalking limit should stay, because otherwise you can have one Potato on the team who feeds him all his Evil for a Tombstone Piece or Unlimited Evil or whatever.
- Cannibal - I feel Cannibal is very strong. I would weaken him a bit
Bubba got reworked quite recently and IMO his power level is fine. He still offers the same amount of counterplay as before, but is stronger at loops now and does not need to use his Chainsaw right at the back of Survivors all the time. So the counterplay basically is "Dont become greedy at Loops" and "Dont get caught in the open"; which was the same as before, but it is not like he is that oppressive at Loops.
- Nightmare - Very Strong killer. needs some weakening.
Is on the Devs list of changing, you can expect some Nerfs.
- Pig - Her power is ok. It doesn't feel like you're doing much. She should get a power rework at some point for the sake of fun and game play.
She does need that much work, more love to her Dash and Stealth. Also an Add On-Rework, but this should also focus more on the Dash and Stealth.
- Hag - Don't let her place traps so close to the hook
Otzdarva made a good idea that Traps should disappear around the Hook once the Survivor is unhooked. This is good IMO, because the Hag still gets value out of it (the Survivor has to crouch to unhook meaning they need more time), but it will also prevent the awkward situation where the Survivors either have to trigger the Traps or Hag has time to return because they both need to crouch to get away.
- Blight - His POV needs to be a bit higher.
Devs are working on it, will come rather sooner than later.
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No, they want a sure way to counter her, so they can handle her 1v1 in a 4v1 game. Also, in a lot of areas, the killer have to guess, and people dont like it if they suddenly have to.
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Then could you explain what is and would be a good counter play? At least you owe us that since you were so confident in saying guessing is not a counter play 😂
Also spirit's counter play depending on how good killer's hearing is not one sided because there is literally no counter playe since she can hear which side of the pallet or window you are. Other guessing games aka mind games are not one sided and what makes dbd fun. Like loop mind games hiding glow or faking your moves and of course when facing twins, deathslinger, huntress etc there is very good guessing/mind games to make them miss their shots which means it is counter play and if you think it is not then you really gotta look up what counter play means dude.
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Well, here's my two cents on this:
- Spirit: She should become partially visibile or have a way to counter her properly. There should not be the need for a perk to counter a killer, that should come from experience. As it is, you can't really know whether she is faking her power or not, nor do you know where she is (especially during chase, with that theme getting so high).
- Freddy: Freddy is a one demon army, capable of doing everything by himself. He has slows, map pressure, fake pallets, spam-friendly power and his lullaby negates many perks. Not to mention the unexistant skill ceiling. I would have his lullaby considered as TR by perks and reduce his power charges. so he would have to actually THINK about placement.
- Leatherface: Reduce his charges to 2.
- Huntress: Rework Iridescent Head.
- Myers: I'd go for the change the OP proposed, as long as he isn't using Infinite EW3.
- Blight: Adjust turning speed on console, so he doesn't look like a killer designed with only PC in mind.
- Hag: Have traps be somewhat away from the hook and also, possibly, from each other. Then, I don't see why she should be almost frozen solid while after teleporting.
- Trapper: Spawn with 2 traps, even without add-ons.
- Oni: Completely empty his power-meter when he picks someone up while in Yamaoka's Wrath. This would make it so he has to work for it again, instead of just having it ready again after hooking a guy.
- Pig: I see her as a fun killer, though she could use some tweaks to make her somewhat stronger. I just have no idea where to go from there.
- Deathslinger: I would personally remove his faster recharge add-ons, to make him somewhat of a less spam-spam killer. And I say that as a Slinger player myself.
After that, I would limit every existing and future killer's ability to mindlessly spam, depending on circumstances (what I mean is that Clown and Billy's spamming is not the same as Blight's). Clown, for instance. Unless you have pallets back to back to back it is highly unlikely that you can negate a hit. As much as it is completely different from the Spirit, in a certain way, the Clown's bottles have no counterplay as well. What I mean is that if they hit you or around you, it's a hit. While you can avoid a Billy's Chainsaw Dash by changing direction, which you can also do against a Nurse, you can't do that against Clown. Since he doesn't get slowed down anymore, if you change direction, you are more than likely to come close to him anyway.
All of this doesn't mean survivors wouldn't need work, of course. But this thread was about killers, so...
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Spirit and pay to win freddy
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Clown: Rework / buff incoming
Plague: is fine
Demo: Next killer they will change a bit. All he needs are his addon fixed
Twins: Rework at all. A not very well thought out killer (all i say is haddonfield windows / balcony). The killer heavily forces you to slug and camp, 2 very unfun problems of DbD.
Deathslinger: Delete or rework. His 1v1 is simply to good and not counterable. There should not be a killer where survivors have to pray he is missing.
ghostface: Fix his power, sometimes people look at you across the map and you get snaped out, sometimes they stay 2 feet away from you and nothing happens.
Spirit: Survivors should hear her while she is phasewalking or at least see her every 2 seconds for a splitsecond
Shape: I dont know, he might need some buff. Probably its enough when he gets his Tier 2 and his 1st Tier 3 quicker. But please, whatever you do, stay true to his nature. A well done killer, just a little bit weak nowadays.
Cannibal: Still not a strong killer after rework but decent. Can stay as he is.
Pig: Buff please, she should be slightly faster when in stealth or a small buff of her dash. nothing crazy please
Legion: Lost cause, i think his rework was fine, but there is not much you can do with his power. Rework his power completly i guess.
Executioner: When he gets stunned, he should loose his power for a few seconds. Other then that, he is extremly strong, but alright.
Hag: Nerfing her would make her terrible, letting her in the state she is leaves her extremly strong. She should not be able to set traps next to hooked survivors i guess.
Blight: Yes, wider field of view would be nice
Trapper: All he needs is the brown bag addon as basekit and he is fine.
Billy: Still one of the finest and best ballanced killer in the game.
Huntress: Same goes for Huntress. Only change we need is the iri head nerf, thats it.
Nurse: Lost cause honestly. Hard to learn, you get bullied a lot your first hours. When mastering the nurse, you probably wont loose a game ever again. Her power was just a big mistake by the devs. All they can do is delete this killer or hope survivors accept death when they face against a good nurse. Any form of nerf would make her even more miserable for weaker players as she already is.
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Nurse: Complete rework.
Trapper: Basic bag.
Hag: Ability to defuse traps without a flashlight.
Ghostface: Reduce recovery power's time.
Freddy: Trap will not trigger when Survivors are crouching.
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Deathslinger Counterplay, lol. You have to pray that he misses, thats it. If a Deathslinger misses you, it was not because you were playing well, it was because they were shooting poorly. At a certain distance, it is impossible to dodge a shot.
Good counterplay would be to not have to guess when Spirit is phasing. E.g. an indication when she starts her Phasewalk. Even then she would be very strong, since she is still invisible and can locate the Survivors, because she gets a lot of feedback (Footsteps, grass moving, breathing, injured sounds) while the Survivor only gets her Footsteps, which are not really reliable (and I am still not sure if they got fixed).
And well, if Spirit is currently standing at a Pallet, as a Survivor you dont know what she is doing. But she can easily react, if she is not phasing and sees that you are moving away, she can phase after you.
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When we look at a tierlist i would bring all characters to B-tier. So A and C-Tier are not so urgent.
Thinks like this killer has no counterplay or this killer has problems with her power (Plague) are not so important, when they are around B-tier. Addon depending killer should have the same priority. Except trapper bc its insane how important bags are.
So priorities for me would be Hag, Nurse, Survivor, Spirit on S-Tier and Clown, Wraith, Trapper maybe Pig in D-Tier.
Clown gets reworked, Wraith gets a buff and Iridiscent Huntress (pseudo-S-tier) gets changed. Demo (C-Tier) gets a change too. So important changes are coming. But Trapper needs changes too. 2 traps base, no rng escape and better trap accessibility.
Now for S-tier. I dont know how to nerf all of them to B-tier.
Spirit with a phase indicator and maybe where you can hear her every 3 sec, but she knows when you hear her.
Hag disable all traps near the hook when someone gets unhooked. No trap disabling with flashlights instead you need to crouch maybe 3sec over a trap to disable it.
Survivor are hard to change bc you need to nerf it without affecting bad players too much. You cant make survivor like nurse where its hard to play decent. So you need changes which affects good survivor more. Map reworks are a good start.
Nurse is a problem. Why should someone play her when she is hard to learn but she would have the same strength as every killer? But when she stays at her strength and all other killer are around A/B/C-tier everyone would only play her on high level. Has anyone suggestions ?
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Rework - clown + legion
Buffs - trapper + wraith
Slight buffs - pig, myers, demo
Slight nerfs - freddy + spirit
Addon changes - huntress, clown, legion, pig, demo, myers, PH, billy, hag
Bugfixes & jank reduction - myers, plague, nurse, billy, GF
Idk lol - slinger and twins
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I’d say clown is fine honestly. His power is good at what it does but he has downsides like any killer should.
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My opinion:
- Trapper: Let him carry two traps at base. Maybe let him teleport his disabled traps from a certain distance to save him some time so he's not without a power as often too.
- Wraith: Make Windstorm addon base kit. Make him completely invisible from a certain distance. Reduce the amount of noise he makes.
- Nurse: Fix her bugs. Make her slightly easier to control on console.
- Myers: Give him more speed in Tier 1. Should break pallets faster in Tier 1 too.
- Hag: After someone is unhooked, any traps within a certain radius of the hook (maybe 5 meters) are destroyed
- Doctor: Is fine as is.
- Huntress: Nerf Iri Head to make it distance based
- Leatherface: Is fine as is
- Freddy: Make BT work on him.
- Pig: Reduce the lethality of her traps in exchange for some chase power.
- Clown: Give him a little more map pressure somehow.
- Spirit: Change Stridor.
- Legion: Reduce stun time based on how many hits you get. (Up to half)
- Plague: Fix her emblems
- Ghostface: Reduce the amount of time to regain his power.
- Demogorgon: Make Rat Tail and Rat LIver base kit. Reduce the amount of noise he makes. Should be totally silent coming out of the portal since there's a map wide notification.
- Oni: Fine as is.
- Deathslinger: Give him a little more counterplay in exchange for some map pressure.
- Pyramid Head: Fine as is
- Blight: Give him a higher PoV
- Twins: Make the switch back to Charlotte faster in exchange for something that makes slugging harder.
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Clown. Put unicycles around the map he can use with a cool down
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They desperately need to fix Plague. Her power is very buggy and her bloodpoint system seems like it just doesn't work properly, it's very hard to pip up with her even when you've done well. Compare her to Legion, who it's very easy to score points in all categories on. I'm not saying Legion is a problem but that Plague's bloodpoint system is.
Dedicated servers hurt her a lot. When vomit hits survivors and they scream but don't get infected THAT'S a problem and nothing has been done about it for months now. As much as I really want her to get some big extra power / rework I think she's actually quite fine as is it's just the bugs that ruin her. If anything I really wish she would always puke in a straight line and you could control it by moving your camera yourself. The randomness of vomit sometimes just makes it even harder to hit people with it which is sad. Idk they need to 100% work on her next after Freddy and Clown. I'm upset they aren't helping her already since she's buggy and the other two aren't but it's whatever. I guess they don't care about the lowest pick rate killer lol
Anyways, aside from that I think Pig really needs her add-ons looked at. Almost all of them are really meh. I don't think they should be broken or anything but literally the skill check add-ons are useless.
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Clown- I dont agree with clown but I havent played much against or as him to have a valid opinion on him, good killers are really good at throwing bottles, a bit too good and can barely move when hit and if he uses exaustion add on which most did for me thats a big rip
Plague- Same as clown havent played as her but vs her she isnt too bad, however those one shots that she charges up are a bit OP they hit trough walls and above obstacles quite often
Demogorgon- Same havent played that much but he seems alright I do agree there should be a small power buff for him or lowered cooldown for using portals
Twins- no issues what so ever I already mastered her, I dont like slugging but until they do something about the hatch there's always gonna be slugging. There is still a problem of not being able to release VIctor wherever so you can stay too close to hook and use victor or block a certain door...
Ghostface- I almost always 4k against rank 1's with ghostface so dunno what u mean "his power is finicky" it's quite a useful power can be countered by survivors and then its on cooldown, can be useful during killershack loops
Spirit- ok you just lost all credibility with me.... literaly my first solo game against her( wont count first few ones cause my "veteran" friend was telling me to just give up) so literaly my 1st game I actually played I could tell EXACTLY where she is using my HEADPHONES.... you can hear the wind shooshing where she is she is suprisingly easy to counter, it's easy to tell the difference between her husk and her after literaly 2 games playing against her, my win ratio is around 80% against her but I'm almost always solo with 10+rank survivors vs 5-rank killer, rarely play with 1 friend so take that in consideration
Shape- I dunno about that, if you can still stalk that survivor why is he sacrificed? you obviously dont need it. I find his power just fine to use no complaints there
Cannibal- Weaken him? again all you need is a window or running around obstacles to fully counter his power.... even a good killer will hit the invisible hitbox of the obstacle....
- "Nightmare - Very Strong killer. needs some weakening"... ok now I can see you're just trolling... He's harder to use than ghostface since it takes time to drop fake pallets or place traps.... the only reason people think he's good cause they dont bother to learn him! My "veteran" friend suicided on 1st hook and told us to do the same against him..... ye well someone passed along a gossip that he is an immortal god and no one can counter him... just stfu about it and bother to actually learn his power and you will know exactly what he can do!!!
- PS: for the love of god dont try to drop a pallet u dropped 10seconds ago which u saw him respawn as dream pallet.... I saw that happen too many times
Pig- She's ok I usually get 4k every match with her but I still dont like the fact that by the time 1 person is downed 3 gens pop and I'm left with 3 traps and 2 gens.... again her power is depended on SURVIVOR ACTIONS meaning if they're a team they wont fully finish a gen until they remove their traps.... It's actually one of the more difficult killers to play against SWF
Legion- ye legion should get a buff, doesnt make sense u can keep stabing someone and they dont go down, its not like frenzy is infinite anyway...
Executioner- I just got him recently so again cant have a valid opinion yet, but I dont like how you're forced to go forward and survivor can just run around, the ranged hit should be wider
Hag- hag is fine as is, should be able to place traps CLOSER, same as trapper cant place it too close to gate, its fine for her but trapper needs em closer. Only thing I'd change is her POV she looks shorter than survivors it's hard when she is getting looped
Blight- Havent played as him so cant tell for sure but alot of people are complaining about POV
Trapper- he's fine as is dont need to start with open traps, but there should be more traps in a locker for example, not too many obviously but def needs to have 3-4 extra default traps. He is very fun to play with :D
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I aggre,
Leatherface is Pallet muncher,he punishes Greedy or unknowing survivors.When fighting leatherface survivors must be aware of there surroundings.Hes mostly strong in rank 6 or 7-20 because Survivors dont know how to play against him.
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Thank god no game designer will ever listen to you, that would be the end of the any game that is meant to be played more than 10 hours. I can't believe how you are so blind that you can't see how your ideas would make the game such a mundane, monotonous ######### game. I love this game because of the guessing games aka mind games. That feeling when you read your opponent and "counter" him and get rewarded by more chances to do the same. He also has the chance to read me and mind game me so it works both ways.
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Ideally, Hillbilly would be reverted to the way he was pre-nerf.
Nightmare is probably a little too strong for how low his skill floor is.
Trapper needs his power to start working for him without a ton of wind-up. I like the idea of all traps starting the match armed.
Wraith, Cannibal, Legion, and Clown need full reworks on the magnitude of the Nightmare redesign.
Deathslinger needs more visual cues and wind-up to his shots to give survivors some sort of counterplay, so it isn't just a guessing game.
Shape and Pig both need something to give them more map pressure.
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Leatherface is perfectly fine as he is now.
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The buff amped up the things that enable his super-toxic, campy play style, which is the entire problem with his kit.
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