Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on these and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
We encourage you to be as honest as possible in letting us know how you feel about the game. The information and answers provided are anonymous, not shared with any third-party, and will not be used for purposes other than survey analysis.
Access the survey HERE!
The small PP build talk is just a manipulation of killer mains.
yes.. i really think slowly but surely its just a manipulation of people who say that.
Scott jund started that (i think) saying "Using Desicisve strike together with Unbreakable is just a small pp thing"
well lets start with this topic then.
usually im not using meta perks. if Q&Q and headon is a meta perk thats a different stroy.
and since im not using META perks that is what happens.
50 games getting tunneled, hard slugged or just facecamped when the killer knows he doesnt have any meta perks.
killers also love hard tunnel when there is no obsession. so what is your point with "small pp" tell me?
playing freddy with ultra slow down isnt small pp.
playing spirit with stridor and strong addons isnt small pp.
using insta downs with killer is not small pp.
what is this dumb talk with small pp? you tunnel = you deserve to get ds'ed
you hard slug you deserve to get people with unbreakable.
you do both at the same time, you deserve both.
just because you dont immideately pick someone up and wait 60 seconds does that make you not a tunnler? ofc you tunnel, with the difference you wait 60 seconds.
you want emphaty? stop with the smallpp talk to play the victim. first stop with your scummy playstyle and maybe people stop using that "smallpp build"
and do not forget "killers playstyle make these perks META" nobody would use these perk when killers would have a little bit of emphaty.
i played for a year with no meta perks. i had enough mercy for killers.
from now on im a small pp survivor.
Comments
-
I thought it was a joke.
But anyways, play any perks you want. It’s there, you’ve earned them. Use it. Or not, it’s up to you.
15 -
Why would you care about what a content creator (or any other stranger for that matter) thinks/says about the perks you wanna use/don't wanna use in the first place?
23 -
Survivors complain about killer perks, killers complain about survivor perks - that's pretty much the way it goes.
Use whatever perks you want to use and forget about what anyone else says about it, it's your game that you're playing, not theirs.
41 -
OP, you've taken what was almost certainly a joke (based on what I know of Scott) and really obsessed over it.
That said, the "small pp" meme is unironically misandrist and body shaming and people shouldn't do it.
20 -
You're conflating strong with no counter play.
It doesn't get the term small pp build because it's strong, it's because it lacks counter play. All the other examples you mention are just strong things, not things lacking counter play.
If you seriously get tunneled or face camped that often you are either inciting it, playing badly or just exaggerating. I don't run the plethora of second chance perks and hardly ever get tunneled or face camped. Too many survivors think things are camping or tunneling that simply aren't.
32 -
Id say the closest to small pp for killers is stridor spirit or god nurse because both are very hard to counter if possible since nurse and spirits making mistakes is confused with counterplay.
1 -
Well Stridor is a tough one because while I can see your point, if you took Stridor off now she's trash against survivors with IW. You are then literally guessing completely. It's basically required. That's a flaw in base design. There is still at least some counter play I'd argue though even with Stridor.
A god tier Nurse feels like near no counter play but honestly how often do you run into that? I run into a Nurse like that once every 6 months and I play way, way more than the average person. Most Nurses are either bad or just decently good and even a decently good Nurse can be counter played quite easily.
I don't think there really is a small pp build for killer as everything on killer side is given loads of counter play. I think NOED is unhealthy for the game and rewards bad players, but it at least has counter play. Stacking gen slow down perks can be strong but most require you to actual play well to get value or take high totem risks. Not to mention that the games current gen speed completion is so overly fast that I'd even argue stacking gen slow down perks simply gets game speeds down to what they should have been at base in the first place.
6 -
That's very true Mandy but I have noticed that when survivor players complain about killer perks changes are far more likely to be made rather then to survivor perks.
8 -
The small PP build goes both ways.
Undying+Ruin+Tinker is much more small PP than any survivor perk combo.
And I am a killer main saying this lol
4 -
I'm not really a fan of either but by all means turn ds/unbreakable into hex perks :P
10 -
Yeah, I feel like 'small pp'/compensation jokes aren't really called out on how ######### they are.
The build is an issue IMO, but the playground insult framing seems to get people extra defensive which isn't very productive.
3 -
"Just because you don't immediately pick someone up and wait 60 seconds does that make you not a tunnler? ofc you tunnel, with the difference you wait 60 seconds."
So has a killer straight up waited the 60 seconds chasing you and (Bad Word)
5 -
i dont know if scott is a killer main, i know he plays also survivor. but my post wasnt only about scott or content creators, everyone is calling you a small pp user when you have that combo. i just know that scott made that statement a while ago.
0 -
actually.. its the other way around. im good at looping.. means when i loop a killer to long i get facecamped, and then slugged and bodycamped.
that is how the game works. you play well = facecamp, tunnel, slug
1 -
Yes, and create a perk when at the egc the killer needs to hit you 3 times to put you in the dying state and you move 4% faster.
0 -
You mean kind of how survivors have been whining about ruin/undying since it came out *LITERALLY ONLY 3.5 MONTHS AGO*, when the small PP build has existed for LITERAL YEARS unchanged, and is FAR more powerful?
This is a two way street bud, and survivors are far more guilty of it than killers.
16 -
It's stupid no matter who does it, as it's blaming players for grievances with stuff in the game. Pure scrub brain mentality. It goes from complaining about stuff in the game (which can often be perfectly legitimate to do) to complaining about players using something in the game.
Don't care if it's about "small pp survivors" or "sweaty tryhard killers", when it's all based on perk/item/add-on selection or something it's just pointless whining and horribly misdirected complaints.
2 -
That isn't what I experience. High rank and good killers wouldn't chase you that long anyway.
9 -
Usually players that complain about "small pp" build are known users of "big pssy" build aka undying ruin.
Everyone can use whichever perks they want, but if someone complains about one side using meta and he's using the meta aswell he's quite hypocrite and pathetic
0 -
I mean, dbd leaderboard exists, he may play both sides but the ratio between escapes and sacrifice is pretty huge. Nothing wrong with being x main but denying it when is pretty evident is quite sus
2 -
Keep in mind that Scott, 95% of the time, messes around as survivor and purposely throws. If he wanted to no skill the games and use DH, Object, and smol pp build to survive then those numbers would be way different.
5 -
Yes, he is a killer main lol.
But his reference to small PP build is pretty fair. Killers have a couple of them, too.
1 -
@OP You listing overpowered killer builds does not take anything away from Scott's point.
In fact it almost supports his point, as you are basically sayin: "yes I see this build is overpowered, but some of these Killer builds are overpowered too!"
6 -
Run whatever you want. I'm a killer main, I care not about your pp.
3 -
The emotional investment that some people put into this game is mind boggling.
15 -
It's just as bad as a hex perk because it relies on the killer playing poorly to execute it. Getting tunneled? DS'ed. Slugging without getting a 2nd down quick enough? Unbreakable cucks you.
0 -
It is the small PP build, sorry but if you need that many second chances, that much time being untouchable by the killer than yeah you are bad, no offense. All the best survivors I ever chase never use these crutch builds, want to know why? Because they are good at the game and don't need second chances to escape.
9 -
He has like 1to23 escape/sacrifice ratio, again nothing wrong with being a killer main but ya know
0 -
Play the way you want. Unless you are a DC'ing Survivor.
3 -
Um...is this one of those "Why do you care about other people's opinions" posts? If so...um yeah play however you want my guy.
1 -
Do totems. Literally the easiest thing ever. If the killer isn't a mobility, which doesn't happen often, you can definitely do totems. Doing totems is also fairly easy to do. If you know that the killer has undying and ruin, then keep track of totems. Its pretty hard because of the lack of information about totems, but it is possible. You can use a map and detectives hunch, and you get a lot of value out of this combo. You say you're a killer main, so I know you know what you're talking about when facing this combo.
I believe that running this combo as a killer that can defend totems is really annoying, but it has counterplay. That's the big problem with ds and UB, you can't really do anything about it. It is a lose lose situation whatever you do. You can either slug, which applies no pressure since they have UB, you can pick up and eat the DS, wasting your precious time that most killers need in a match, or you can ignore them for the 60 seconds they have of ds. 60 seconds is almost an entire generator, I remind you. 3 fourths of a generator. Whatever you do, you either waste time or not pressure. It is not something I want to go against as trapper, or wraith, or clown, or pig, or plague, or myers, or legion.
All these killers I mention have glaring issues, be it the power doesn't perform to the same standard as similar killers, such as myers and wraith compared to ghostface, trapper compared to hag, as examples. These killers have similar powers, myers can stalk and so can ghostface. Myers and wraith are stealth killers and ghostface is also a stealth killer. Trapper lays down traps that can surprise survivors. Hag can lay down traps that can surprise survivors. Pig and plague have their own issues, but I won't go into them since I don't play them enough to play them well, but from what I have seen from well respected community leaders, people like otz, that they're not as good as somebody like ghostface.
I say all of this to tell you that the majority of killers cannot use the aforementioned combo to its full utility because they either black map pressure or cannot defend their totems. Killers like Oni, Hillbilly, and blight could use his combo to their advantage because they can move around the map a lot faster than most killers, meaning they can push people from gens and defend their totems at pretty much the same time. Legion can use this as well, but they suffer their own issues in the game.
Killers like nurse and spirit don't really need the combo because they can down people faster than they can do anything, if they're good. Btw, I'm basing all my conclusions or whatever they're called on the best of the best players of these killers.
Huntress, deathslinger and pyramid head are weird since they're ranged killers. Not so much pyramid head because he moves at 4.8 m/s and has 32 meter terror radius. They don't use this combo either because they already are stealthy, like deathslinger and pyramid head with m&a. Huntress just is there with her crossmap snipes.
TL;DR: Most killers don't utilize this build because they either don't need it or can't use it to its fullest potential.
2 -
LOL
LOL
LOL
LOL
LOL
IMAGINE thinking a HEX perk combo is in ANY WAY more powerful than the survivor meta. Dear lord. This is comedy gold by someone with like 10 hours in DBD.
8 -
The reason it's called small pp build is because it isn't ever used defensively. It never is used to punish the killer for slugging or tunneling, but rather used to say " I have 60 seconds on this generator where if you slug me I get right back up and keep working or you grab me and get stunned and looped more"
There's no counterplay to it and that's the issue
6 -
EXACTLY. Where as ruin/undying? ACTUALLY has a counter because it can be removed from the game, and there are perks, and items, that can facilitate this.
5 -
I think you are confusing "not wanting to be tunneled" with "abusing OP combos because I'm a little ######### who can't stay alive with 7 crutch perks on my ass 24/7".
If you use DS Unbreakable against people who are legitimately and maliciously tunneling, I'm rooting for you 24/7/365. People who maliciously tunnel to ruin fun (doing it for strategic reasons is different, as is tunneling and camping when you just got rofl stomped) should 115% be punished.
However, most people use DS Unbreakable in a "smoll PP" way, where they get unhooked and take this combo and just do gens with no fear because they are just invincible, because getting stunned as Killer from a DS kind of just kills all pressure you may have, with Unbreakable there to eliminate the limited "counterplay" or just slugging the little #########. It's the DBD equivalent of the Bushwacka Jarate combo in TF2. You're supposed to be weak when in close quarters, but with that combo you just delete anyone who tries to flank you, whether it be a Spy, Scout, whatnot. Smoll PP build is the equivalent. You should be recuperating after an unhook. FFS you just got a ######### meat hook shoved through your shoulder and had your life force drained by The Entity!
But nope. I have a ######### piece of wood and rolled a nat. 20 on my Constitution check, so I can just work on gens in the Killer's face and he can't do anything.
Run what you want, but people will hate you if you abuse something blatently OP.
BTW, Freddy with ultra-slow down addons and build IS smoll PP, but doing it while purely slugging is just being a complete baby; Spirit is fine, but Stridor makes her too easy, but not smoll PP because it's too powerful, but not OP; instadowns on Killers? I've never heard ANYONE ######### about that. It's really weird, especially when every instadown perk for Killer relies on the survivors to do a certain action. That one is, quite frankly, a git gud situation, sorry m8.
3 -
As someone who plays killer alot more than survivor i do agree with camping and tunneling being toxic and something that should be punished, but at the same time I have to deal with these perks going off in matches I try to play more towards giving everyone a chance to enjoy the match (aka not tunneling or camping).
These perks are massive game changers and are in my experience rarely ever used for their intended purpose (aka anti tunnel, anti slug). I cant say I dont slug because I do, if a survivor who got off the hook try to be cheeky il down them without a second thought and leave them to avoid DS. And if that survivor was not picked up after my next chase on the hook they go.
Using the perks to counter toxicity as they were intended is fine but I feel their should be a better solution. In my opinion ds should only be active for 1 survivor at a time, any more than that then the perks being abused for its strength and not its purpose, its not my fault if your entire team rushed a hook and I downed someone, hooked them, and then get you within 60 seconds ( happens alot to be honest ).
Besides that I have no issue with people using meta perks to avoid the toxic killers in the game or toxic survivors in the game, but those perks are abused alot more than they should be and a better solution to these problems should be found
1 -
My philosophy is that in competitive games you should always "expect the meta"(ruin undying, ds, swf, etc.) when playing, because, duh the opponent is trying to win, so are you, and they are going to use the best tools available to them in order to achieve that, call them cheap, lazy, crutches whatever, in the end if they end up winning who gets the last laugh?. And until you stop complaining about why people play the meta and instead focus on how you, yourself can beat it, you are not going to have a better time
1 -
I like you
0 -
"Killers can face camp and tunnel as they please".
If killers are winning games by face camping and tunneling, the survivors they are facing allowed it to happen.
2 -
Are we really doing this? "Small PP" build is referred to as such because it can be used offensively by survivors with 0 means of counterplay; there's no big manipulation going on and it's kinda worrisome that it's bothering you to this level.
Yes, slugging and tunneling to some extent are how killers in high ranks win games as this allows them to keep survivors off of gens and maintain map pressure. DS means they can't tunnel, and Unbreakable means they can't be slugged, and thus there is nothing a killer can do until DS expires. By then, you can get done three-quarters of a gen, and if ran by a team, that's 240 seconds of the team being invulnerable.
That's why it's hated—there are no feasible means for the killer to keep the survivors off gens/prevent them from playing offensively and play around these defensive perks. If you want to run it, then fine—do it. It's a common build, after all. There's no need to make a big deal out of everything.
Furthermore, I don't like the tone this has. Your post has this subtext of "Screw killers! Run this build they hate!"
I know this fanbase is pretty divided, that comes with any asymmetrical game, but it's another to actively encouragement resentment from one side to another. It's a game; we're here to have fun, make low-quality memes, and totally-not-erotic fan art—if a game is causing you frustration, take a break. It sounds like you've had some rough games and desperately need it.
0 -
It's a joke about a badly designed perk synergy that people abuse. It's kinda funny considering scott says ruin undying is also small pp. You're looking WAY too deep into things, please go back to area 51 conspiracy theorizing
0 -
Core issue with the build is the offensive approach plain and simple get unhooked gen is 85% close by. You run over to finish the gen killer rushes back to stop you. Downs you. He knows you have ds and decides to slug you so you dont finish the gen you unbreakable finish the gen.
The killer only sought to prevent you from diving the gen close by but his options were awful no matter what. If he eats the ds he loses pressure and resets your health state. If you do manage to punch out the gen then you lost a gen he now has no hook and due to ds long cd it's very easy to hit a 55 second ds. Which can happen after hooking someone else.
Ruin undying is strong and i agree it can be toned down. In fact i called the damn thing ages ago. But op your forgeting that og ds existed in a much more broken state for more then 2 years. With the reasoning being they wanted to fix the perk instead of nerfing it to unplayability. Why should hex undying be nerfed out of the meta if ds didn't.
Make no mistake ds and undying share similar levels of power. If you don't believe me pull a 4 man team together of ds unbreakables and see how much damage you can do its absurd. Then theres the fact that undying hex ruin dosent fit every killer. I'd argue half of the rooster have way better builds then trying to awkwardly jam ruin and undying.
0 -
As killers, we can't just forget about what survivors say. It usually leads to nerfs.
See... Pop, nurse, somehow Billy, soon to be spirit, Freddy, undying and RUIN... AGAIN!
0 -
I played very late last night and in my 10 killer games 36 of 40 survivors had ds unbreakable combos. Every game was 4 man swf which was expected. Only 2 survivors didn't have ds. I just wonder how can you not be bored running it all the time? I don't use any gen slowdowns so the games are very fast and that's fine by me but I just don't get what you get out of these games? If you can't run the killer efficiently you're going to lose anyway so this combo allows bad habits and doesn't make you better survivor.
You can even depip easily when doing this so I don't get it. Even if you escape you might only get max 15k points. Killer always has action packed games and plenty of bloodpoints. I respect good survivors and there's so many other perks in the game that can work with SWF groups, why anyone doesn't use them? I wish there were more guys like cope and zubat.
0 -
Like I said above.
0 -
Ah yes, I got hard tunneled and camped because it was my fault.
Lovely victim-blaming you've got there.
1 -
You're not being victim blamed because you're not a victim. The victim hood mentality these days is ridiculous. Have some self agency and take responsibility for your situation and actions.
3 -
''If you seriously get tunneled or face camped that often you are either inciting it, playing badly or just exaggerating. I don't run the plethora of second chance perks and hardly ever get tunneled or face camped. Too many survivors think things are camping or tunneling that simply aren't.''
You're saying it's the survivor's fault if they get camped or tunneled.
Also, your experience =/= others.
2 -
Because that is a factual statement. Exaggerating meaning it isn't always the case but sometimes it is the killer actually doing it. Sometimes it's not the survivors fault, you just make it sound like it's more often than it is.
My experience = way, way, way more hours than the average player to have a better comprehension of what happens.
2 -
I totally agree. The problem with DS and other second chance perks is that they're countering nothing most of the time. Instead of countering tunneling its basically just punishing the killer for not waiting a full minuet after hooking or chasing another survivor.
I've had horrible experiences playing killer against these perks with really sweaty bully 4 mans and its literally abuse of mechanics most of the time, not actual usage of the perks for what its for. I remember being looped all game, she had OLD BL and all the other second chance perks... I was ran around for 5 gens and finally got the Laurie.. I was body blocked by two survs at the hook while one got her off. I hit her immediately (for the tea bagging and pointing of course) and was then body blocked and forced to ######### all 3 survs just to pick up the Laurie, be met with DS and have all 3 jump up from unbreakable and escape.
So yeah. Not a fan of SWF or Second Chance perks. It actually ruined the game for me and I've played less than a week of it collectively for an entire year because of it.
1
