In-depth Spirit Changes With Reasoning & Justification!
Problem 1: (Unreliable combo)
The Spirit can barely combo with her power after attacking a survivor. Basically when attack a survivor and you use Phase Walk to combo, you'll barely be able to catch up to the survivor assuming your tracking is on point!
Solution: (Faster Phase movement speed)
I can't say how much of a movement speed increase she needs but she does need some kind of speed boost! If I was forced to say how much she needs right now, I would roughly say a 25% speed increase to her Phase Walk. Now the point of this is to allow her to quickly attack a survivor then finish them off with her power. However this can also be used for better map pressure, giving survivors less time to react to her presence, and faster mind games!
Problem 2: (Not rewarding skill & power too punishing)
When you land a successful Phase Walk and attack the survivor the moment you exit your Phase Walk, you still get punished with a horrible 20 second cool down. This by itself just feels awful since you did very well to predict the survivor's movement and now you have to wait.
Solution: (Instant % recharge upon a successful Phase Walk & slight increase in Phase Walk recovery)
During the speed boost period when you exit your Phase Walk if you attack a survivor, instantly recharge 7.5 seconds of your power. Additionally her power will take 15 seconds to fully recharge if it was fully empty. This now rewards you for being on point with her power and is less punishing when you miss predict a survivor's movement.
Problem 3: (Hard to predict a survivor's movement during Phase Walking)
Since scratch marks are delayed and can be hidden in grass, this can often be confusing to the Spirit player! Scratch marks are the most important thing besides listening that can help the Spirit player predict a survivor's movement and it feels so awful when the scratch marks are unreliable.
Solution: (Disable chase music when Phasing, make scratch marks more brighter, & increase the bonus when you exit your Phase Walk)
She might not need all of these solutions, this is your heads up!
Disabling the chase music can be a HUGE plus because it often blocks out noises caused by survivors which can be the thing that decides if your Phase Walk will be successful or not. Scratch marks need to be tremendously more brighter and needs to be more transparent through grass during a Phase Walk because it's the ONLY thing she has besides sound so it needs to be reliable! Additionally, if you guys don't like brighter scratch marks, you can increase the bonus when she leaves her Phase Walk so she can correct herself just a little kinda like how nurse can use her second blink to correct herself for a quick attack.
Compensation: (If the Spirit is over powered with these changes)
-The developers can decrease her movement speed to 96.25% (Nurse)
-Nerf her add-ons while keeping her kit strong
-Maybe all of the above if she is really out of control
Please if you have anything that you'll like to say about the Spirit, I'm here to discuss your questions, complaints, and your suggestions! Please be respectful and be civilized, thank you for reading!
Comments
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I agree with everything except the scratch marks bit. Those are fine.1
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How come? I'm okay with you disagreeing and all but I wonder why your against it!SovererignKing said:I agree with everything except the scratch marks bit. Those are fine.
It's just that in door maps with no grass to hide your scratch marks give you full potential on your tracking ability and your not limited by the inconsistencies!0 -
A decent set of ideas but PLEASE, do NOT slow her movement speed down to nurse levels.
Her obnoxiously slow movement speed is what keeps me from enjoying The Nurse at all, and yeah, I can do well with her, but ugh, SO SLOW.
Also, +1 on making her scratchmarks more visible/reliable and being able to turn off that bloody chase music.
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@ElricElric said:A decent set of ideas but PLEASE, do NOT slow her movement speed down to nurse levels.
Her obnoxiously slow movement speed is what keeps me from enjoying The Nurse at all, and yeah, I can do well with her, but ugh, SO SLOW.
Also, +1 on making her scratchmarks more visible/reliable and being able to turn off that bloody chase music.
Don't worry, it's just a idea if she is OP. There are multiple ideas to nerf her besides making her slower, I'll add on to my OP.
-Instantly gain 5 seconds on your power upon a successful Phase Walk instead of 7.5.
-Decreased lunge
-Increased TR
-Bigger audio range on her power (AKA survivors can detect if your coming from a longer range)0 -
Yeah, I'm aware, and you're not a dev, so these are only suggestions (albeit good ones), I just really don't want another killer as slow as the nurse personally, hah.
I mean you can literally urban evasion away from her.
Wouldn't fit the spirit, and her passive phasing, which I find rather creepy and cool as survivor.You should be able to notice when you phase shift when you PLAY The Spirit, though.
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The 20sec cooldown is what kills it for me. Mind games are all about playing your individual opponent. When you have to wait 20sec in between tries it takes away the ability to read and condition your opponent. Even 5sec less would be great.
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Yeah, the Spirit is really reliant on her power and it sucks to not be able you her power often! After you use your power, you are a 110% M1 killer for 20 seconds which really hurts her ability during chases!Might_Oakk said:The 20sec cooldown is what kills it for me. Mind games are all about playing your individual opponent. When you have to wait 20sec in between tries it takes away the ability to read and condition your opponent. Even 5sec less would be great.
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I don't know what you are talking/referring to in this statement I highlighted in bold (See Above). Are you talking about the 110% movement speed? Sorry, it's unclear to me lol!Elric said:Yeah, I'm aware, and you're not a dev, so these are only suggestions (albeit good ones), I just really don't want another killer as slow as the nurse personally, hah.
I mean you can literally urban evasion away from her.
Wouldn't fit the spirit, and her passive phasing, which I find rather creepy and cool as survivor.You should be able to notice when you phase shift when you PLAY The Spirit, though.
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He means her passive phasing that “after image” effect that looks like she’s blinking three times rapidly while walking.Nickenzie said:
I don't know what you are talking/referring to in this statement I highlighted in bold (See Above). Are you talking about the 110% movement speed? Sorry, it's unclear to me lol!Elric said:Yeah, I'm aware, and you're not a dev, so these are only suggestions (albeit good ones), I just really don't want another killer as slow as the nurse personally, hah.
I mean you can literally urban evasion away from her.
Wouldn't fit the spirit, and her passive phasing, which I find rather creepy and cool as survivor.You should be able to notice when you phase shift when you PLAY The Spirit, though.
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It wouldn’t help. The brightness doesn’t matter, at least to me. I can see them just fine. You only use the scratch marks to get a general location. Then you just listen for their huff and puffs as they run to pinpoint their location. Scratch marks aren’t meant for pin point accuracy.Nickenzie said:
How come? I'm okay with you disagreeing and all but I wonder why your against it!SovererignKing said:I agree with everything except the scratch marks bit. Those are fine.
It's just that in door maps with no grass to hide your scratch marks give you full potential on your tracking ability and your not limited by the inconsistencies!0 -
If 110% movement speed is too low and 115% is too much, how about... 112.5% speed?
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I agree with all your points
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@SovererignKingSovererignKing said:
It wouldn’t help. The brightness doesn’t matter, at least to me. I can see them just fine. You only use the scratch marks to get a general location. Then you just listen for their huff and puffs as they run to pinpoint their location. Scratch marks aren’t meant for pin point accuracy.Nickenzie said:
How come? I'm okay with you disagreeing and all but I wonder why your against it!SovererignKing said:I agree with everything except the scratch marks bit. Those are fine.
It's just that in door maps with no grass to hide your scratch marks give you full potential on your tracking ability and your not limited by the inconsistencies!
I know and that's completely true but I feel like the scratch marks aren't leading the Spirit in the right direction in terms of the survivor's general area most of the times. I often get confused on where the scratch marks ARE GOING and I like if you can see the scratch marks more clearly that you'll be able track the survivor's general location better, I'm putting a lot of emphasis on "Survivor's general location" since scratch marks aren't meant for pinpoint accuracy! However it's okay if you don't agree but that's my view on the scratch marks tho! 0 -
@Nickenzie
you should ask a mod to put this in balance feedback. Since the dev are working on her more likely they look in that thread then any other threads. And maybe you can tag Janick 🤷🏾♂️0 -
I streamed playing her for quite awhile around rank 1-3 and I can't remember now but I think I got all 4k's. A few DC's but yeah.
I think it's just hard to know how to properly use her power to catch survivors, and you've gotta predict where the survivors are gonna go.
Also, It's really good to use her power during a chase once the survivor loses sight of you. (Once the survivor goes around a wall or once you get behind something not too obvious) That way they'll keep running and most likely not know you're phase walking. This has worked wonders for me in tracking them.
That being said, I do still think she needs a few buffs and I like these ideas. She might not be as great as I'm thinking and I very well could have gone up against nothing but potatoes in all those games!
Let me know if anyone would like a link to the stream to check it out.0 -
I see where you’re coming from, but truthfully if you want better accuracy you’ll have to use a perk slot on Predator.Nickenzie said:
@SovererignKingSovererignKing said:
It wouldn’t help. The brightness doesn’t matter, at least to me. I can see them just fine. You only use the scratch marks to get a general location. Then you just listen for their huff and puffs as they run to pinpoint their location. Scratch marks aren’t meant for pin point accuracy.Nickenzie said:
How come? I'm okay with you disagreeing and all but I wonder why your against it!SovererignKing said:I agree with everything except the scratch marks bit. Those are fine.
It's just that in door maps with no grass to hide your scratch marks give you full potential on your tracking ability and your not limited by the inconsistencies!
I know and that's completely true but I feel like the scratch marks aren't leading the Spirit in the right direction in terms of the survivor's general area most of the times. I often get confused on where the scratch marks ARE GOING and I like if you can see the scratch marks more clearly that you'll be able track the survivor's general location better, I'm putting a lot of emphasis on "Survivor's general location" since scratch marks aren't meant for pinpoint accuracy! However it's okay if you don't agree but that's my view on the scratch marks tho!1 -
@Janick @Peanits Any opinions?Iceman said:@Nickenzie
you should ask a mod to put this in balance feedback. Since the dev are working on her more likely they look in that thread then any other threads. And maybe you can tag Janick 🤷🏾♂️
Oh, @SovererignKing I just want scratch marks to be brighter so you can see them better not more compressed by Predator! However now that you mentioned it, I might use it on my Spirit.0 -
Awesome feedback!
I wish scratchmarks wouldn't be as delayed and that you could use her power quicker and even when it's not full.
I just want her base kit to be more powerfull and her addons nerfed becase she is so addon dependant.I highly disagree with giving her nurse speed. Survivors would literally outrun her. She would need crazy buffs to make up for it.
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I just want to be able to disable the chase music in general.
Personally it pulls me out of the game. On both Killer and Survivor.
Especially if you use No Mither, that injured music... Ugh...
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I’m all for giving her the ability to use her power at half and full. Basically “two” charges. Like Nurse Blinks.Claudette_Baguette said:Awesome feedback!
I wish scratchmarks wouldn't be as delayed and that you could use her power quicker and even when it's not full.
I just want her base kit to be more powerfull and her addons nerfed becase she is so addon dependant.I highly disagree with giving her nurse speed. Survivors would literally outrun her. She would need crazy buffs to make up for it.
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It’s great for those still learning her. Eventually your prediction skills will make it unnecessary. I believe you can do it Nickenzie.Nickenzie said:
@Janick @Peanits Any opinions?Iceman said:@Nickenzie
you should ask a mod to put this in balance feedback. Since the dev are working on her more likely they look in that thread then any other threads. And maybe you can tag Janick 🤷🏾♂️
Oh, @SovererignKing I just want scratch marks to be brighter so you can see them better not more compressed by Predator! However now that you mentioned it, I might use it on my Spirit.1 -
@Swiftblade131 said:
I just want to be able to disable the chase music in general.Personally it pulls me out of the game. On both Killer and Survivor.
Especially if you use No Mither, that injured music... Ugh...
It's a game mechanic. You should not be able to hear everything when in a chase for the sake of hiding during a chase. Survivors having no chase music? Would make things easier, nobody would have it turned on.
But I agree with the Spirit having no chase music in the phase walk.
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@Nickenzie said:
Hello, I been playing Spirit for around 12 hours and I'm gonna list some of her flaws as well as some solutions to how fix them! My goal is to make her like the Nurse in terms of rewarding your skill while not being as strong as the nurse! Enjoy this problem & solution thread!Problem 1: (Unreliable combo)
The Spirit can barely combo with her power after attacking a survivor. Basically when attack a survivor and you use Phase Walk to combo, you'll barely be able to catch up to the survivor assuming your tracking is on point!
Solution: (Faster Phase movement speed)
I can't say how much of a movement speed increase she needs but she does need some kind of speed boost! If I was forced to say how much she needs right now, I would roughly say a 25% speed increase to her Phase Walk. Now the point of this is to allow her to quickly attack a survivor then finish them off with her power. However this can also be used for better map pressure, giving survivors less time to react to her presence, and faster mind games!
Problem 2: (Not rewarding skill & power too punishing)
When you land a successful Phase Walk and attack the survivor the moment you exit your Phase Walk, you still get punished with a horrible 20 second cool down. This by itself just feels awful since you did very well to predict the survivor's movement and now you have to wait.
Solution: (Instant % recharge upon a successful Phase Walk & slight increase in Phase Walk recovery)
During the speed boost period when you exit your Phase Walk if you attack a survivor, instantly recharge 7.5 seconds of your power. Additionally her power will take 15 seconds to fully recharge if it was fully empty. This now rewards you for being on point with her power and is less punishing when you miss predict a survivor's movement.
Problem 3: (Hard to predict a survivor's movement during Phase Walking)
Since scratch marks are delayed and can be hidden in grass, this can often be confusing to the Spirit player! Scratch marks are the most important thing besides listening that can help the Spirit player predict a survivor's movement and it feels so awful when the scratch marks are unreliable.
Solution: (Disable chase music when Phasing, make scratch marks more brighter, & increase the bonus when you exit your Phase Walk)
She might not need all of these solutions, this is your heads up!
Disabling the chase music can be a HUGE plus because it often blocks out noises caused by survivors which can be the thing that decides if your Phase Walk will be successful or not. Scratch marks need to be tremendously more brighter and needs to be more transparent through grass during a Phase Walk because it's the ONLY thing she has besides sound so it needs to be reliable! Additionally, if you guys don't like brighter scratch marks, you can increase the bonus when she leaves her Phase Walk so she can correct herself just a little kinda like how nurse can use her second blink to correct herself for a quick attack.
Compensation: (If the Spirit is over powered with these changes)
-The developers can decrease her movement speed to 96.25% (Nurse)
-Nerf her add-ons while keeping her kit strong
-Maybe all of the above if she is really out of controlPlease if you have anything that you'll like to say about the Spirit, I'm here to discuss your questions, complaints, and your suggestions! Please be respectful and be civilized, thank you for reading!
If she is overpowerd that's a good thing this is an assymetrical game the killer should be overpowerd this is why the nurse and hillbilynare so good.
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@Claudette_Baguette said:
Awesome feedback!I wish scratchmarks wouldn't be as delayed and that you could use her power quicker and even when it's not full.
I just want her base kit to be more powerfull and her addons nerfed becase she is so addon dependant.I highly disagree with giving her nurse speed. Survivors would literally outrun her. She would need crazy buffs to make up for it.
@Claudette_Baguette
The nerf to nurse speed is just a idea if she gets out of control and they can always nerf her other ways if these changes are too powerful for the Spirit!0 -
I would shrink her hitbox or make it so her sword can't cut Survivors when there is a solid object between them. She can slice a Survivor who is 45 degrees away from her with a solid object between them. I was next to a tire on a truck and she was behind and off to one side by the truck bed and she hit me. If her sword could not go through solid objects it would be helpful.
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@SovererignKing said:
Nickenzie said:
Elric said:Yeah, I'm aware, and you're not a dev, so these are only suggestions (albeit good ones), I just really don't want another killer as slow as the nurse personally, hah.
I mean you can literally urban evasion away from her.
Wouldn't fit the spirit, and her passive phasing, which I find rather creepy and cool as survivor.
You should be able to notice when you phase shift when you PLAY The Spirit, though.
I don't know what you are talking/referring to in this statement I highlighted in bold (See Above). Are you talking about the 110% movement speed? Sorry, it's unclear to me lol!
He means her passive phasing that “after image” effect that looks like she’s blinking three times rapidly while walking.
Ahh, this could also be buffed but I don't wanna over buff her! Thanks @SovererignKing!
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I don't really understand many of the points.
Why? They don't have many things in common.
Every Killer has it's power set out to make them play in a specific way.
Trapper has to use his traps to catch survivors and cut short chases by blocking escape paths.
Wraith uses his invisibility to set up ambush and down survivors.
Nurse uses her power to catch up to any survivor she can find.
Billy uses his power to control area and punish those he finds.
etc.
For this changes though... It looks she would catch up using her power in open space, but once in a tricky place she gets cucked, unlike nurse.
Also suggestion to make her speed lower than survivor.... She can't bypass obstacles, so it will make her unplayable. You hide or vault, she can't catch. You have jungle gym and she's useless.
In other words, with those changes she lacks design to execute.On another note, her speed is 4.4, which should encourage using her power. But her power right now "could" only be used to cut down chases (if not for sound bugs). And her mobility suffers which further reduces her ability to locate survivors which she can easily loose.
The problem with punishing recharge, not enough mobility to keep hold of map and lacking ability to find surviovr... this all is fixed by 4.6 speed and sound bugfix.
Unlike Wraith, her power can hardly be used for ambush right now (or anywhere, if they're supposed to hear her, they could evade her before she appears and starts search)0 -
@Nickenzie said:
Hello, I been playing Spirit for around 12 hours and I'm gonna list some of her flaws as well as some solutions to how fix them! My goal is to make her like the Nurse in terms of rewarding your skill while not being as strong as the nurse! Enjoy this problem & solution thread!Problem 1: (Unreliable combo)
The Spirit can barely combo with her power after attacking a survivor. Basically when attack a survivor and you use Phase Walk to combo, you'll barely be able to catch up to the survivor assuming your tracking is on point!
Solution: (Faster Phase movement speed)
I can't say how much of a movement speed increase she needs but she does need some kind of speed boost! If I was forced to say how much she needs right now, I would roughly say a 25% speed increase to her Phase Walk. Now the point of this is to allow her to quickly attack a survivor then finish them off with her power. However this can also be used for better map pressure, giving survivors less time to react to her presence, and faster mind games!
Problem 2: (Not rewarding skill & power too punishing)
When you land a successful Phase Walk and attack the survivor the moment you exit your Phase Walk, you still get punished with a horrible 20 second cool down. This by itself just feels awful since you did very well to predict the survivor's movement and now you have to wait.
Solution: (Instant % recharge upon a successful Phase Walk & slight increase in Phase Walk recovery)
During the speed boost period when you exit your Phase Walk if you attack a survivor, instantly recharge 7.5 seconds of your power. Additionally her power will take 15 seconds to fully recharge if it was fully empty. This now rewards you for being on point with her power and is less punishing when you miss predict a survivor's movement.
Problem 3: (Hard to predict a survivor's movement during Phase Walking)
Since scratch marks are delayed and can be hidden in grass, this can often be confusing to the Spirit player! Scratch marks are the most important thing besides listening that can help the Spirit player predict a survivor's movement and it feels so awful when the scratch marks are unreliable.
Solution: (Disable chase music when Phasing, make scratch marks more brighter, & increase the bonus when you exit your Phase Walk)
She might not need all of these solutions, this is your heads up!
Disabling the chase music can be a HUGE plus because it often blocks out noises caused by survivors which can be the thing that decides if your Phase Walk will be successful or not. Scratch marks need to be tremendously more brighter and needs to be more transparent through grass during a Phase Walk because it's the ONLY thing she has besides sound so it needs to be reliable! Additionally, if you guys don't like brighter scratch marks, you can increase the bonus when she leaves her Phase Walk so she can correct herself just a little kinda like how nurse can use her second blink to correct herself for a quick attack.
Compensation: (If the Spirit is over powered with these changes)
-The developers can decrease her movement speed to 96.25% (Nurse)
-Nerf her add-ons while keeping her kit strong
-Maybe all of the above if she is really out of controlPlease if you have anything that you'll like to say about the Spirit, I'm here to discuss your questions, complaints, and your suggestions! Please be respectful and be civilized, thank you for reading!
Personally, I'd say that there are some very simple solutions to most of the problems with the Spirit that you presented.
Decrease the charge time for activating the haunting ability. At 2.5 seconds at a standstill, a survivor sprinting at 4.0 meters per second will have gained 10 meters on the killer on top of whatever distance they already had from the killer. At 110% movement speed, the killer will be moving at 5.06 meters per second. That means that the Spirit, chasing after the survivor in a straight line, will gain 1.06 meters per second on the survivor and will have to spend at least 9.5 seconds chasing after the survivor in Haunting to be able to end up in the same relative position to the survivor as when they entered Haunting. That's far too long as a MINIMUM time to be in Haunting to be able to catch up (and remember, these are the MINIMUM numbers, of if the Spirit activates Haunting when they are right up on the survivor's back).
Allow the Spirit to see survivors while charging the Haunting. This will allow the Spirit to do some mindgames with Insidious, as well as to have a more accurate direction to head in when the Haunting activates.
Increase the Haunting total amount and allow the Spirit to reactivate Haunting before the Haunting meter has refilled to its full amount. This way, the survivor being chased will always have to pay attention to the Spirit, unless they want to get ambushed and/or mindgamed, which opens up the possibility of the survivor in question making more mistakes.
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However, these are just patchworks to this killer's kit. Her kit is trash. Having to allow a survivor to gain distance on you, then trying to catch up at a negligibly faster rate while not even being able to properly navigate towards them to the point where you usually would lose more ground than you would gain by activating the Haunting, is just worthless as a killer's kit. The killer is better off not using the power at all. Which is indicative of a terrible killer power design, like the Wraith's or OG Hag's.1 -
Brighter Blood > Base kit
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I wouldn't mind this but it would need testing to make sure it isn't OP or gives the survivor no counter play.Legacy_Zealot said:Brighter Blood > Base kit
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