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"Gen rush doesn't exist"
So, according to some youtubers/streamers, how fast objectives can get completed is false, you can actually put pressure on the map, somehow(?), "but if they're really really good survivors..." better not to talk about what happens, because if you turn off cross play at 1 am EU Italy/Spain time...you're not crossing a 10 game streak with any killer, no 50 win streak as @Otzdarva did with those conditions, never. This video puts what survivors can do separately together doing one gen each (not even in the best way because the killer didn't realise they were 3 on a gen doing this ( and who the ** would expect this btw)) instead of spawning across the map with really strong perks
This video doesn't even show what happens if survivors do gens separately, one in each corner of the map, waiting out corrupted intervention.
This is mathematical, once 2 gens are left there's no way to put pressure on the map apart from camping, slugging, and tunneling, countered each by borrowed time, unbreakable, and decisive strike. Maybe even soul guard, to make things even more interesting.
And, if survivors spawn all together, in one place... Just hide behind rocks/trees near borders, and relocate all across the map. Last 3/4 gens will be near the centre or close, enough to force the killer to go in an area of the map really far away from the objectives if he wanted ever to commit to a chase
Comments
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No disrespect but what exactly is this video designed to show? That a killer who isn't even applying pressure properly can be rushed by a coordinated team stacking toolboxes and generator orientated perks? Come off it, killers have issues, particularly related to SWF games but this is just disingenuous.
It's also very telling how the video cuts away before it gets to the pip screen (yeah yeah we know, rank means nothing) as they would have likely depipped from that game (maybe a black if lucky). It also conveniently doesn't show the killers rank or anyone else's in the game. In addition, no one is running any obsession perks so a killer who wants to slug and hard tunnel is going to have a field day.
As I said, no disrespect but this is a very weak attempt at proving generator speeds are a problem.
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All the old depip squad videos are still available, where they win even with no perks.
So because with no perks the mechanics are practically the same, the old experiment of Marth is still valid. The devs did even appreciate these experiments being done
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..
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The problem with Tru3 is that he always tries to play the "fun way", trying to 12 hook and pip, slug pretty never.
But it is a pretty good example still
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Oh, a tru3-video. How useful. 4 Gens in whatever, 5 Gens in 10 minutes, tru3 gets a 4K. Yay, classic.
@Topic:
This is a Killer who basically does not know what game they are playing. They could be wandering around and wondering why they does not encounter any Creepers, not noticing they are not playing Minecraft.
If a Killer does nothing and cannot apply any pressure at all, Gens will be done fast. And funnily, the Video does not show the Rank of the Killer...
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The BOTB tournament shows everything, the state is still the same pretty much.
Also, at the time Nurse and Huntress didn't suffer pallet vacuum, exhaustion recovered in 80 seconds running, marth didn't use toolboxes like a mad lad. No items used:
Edit: this is probably their best experiment, because they don't have anything, just the rush
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4 gens in 2:42 seconds.. Yeah because he literally let them? How many mistakes did he make in that 2:42 seconds? How long did it take him to Blood Fury? It took him over 3 minutes just to get a single down and he tries to put on a false narrative about Gen Rushing. He didn't put any pressure on them at all and kept talking about 1 dead hard causing it.
0:15 starts chase with Jake
0:59 breaking the pallet instead of blood lusting around it. The only way its an infinite is if the survivor never makes a mistake. Survivors will clip a barrel or the edge of something.
1:20 double backing when you can clearly tell by Jake's cries and his blood orbs that he kept running straight.
1:30 Leaves Jake to start chase with Claudette
1:33 failed to commit to the Claudette and lost her in the cornfields do to his double backing.
1:38 starts 3rd chase with Nea
1:42 tried to make a fancy play when he could have committed and hit the Nea through the pallet.
1:55 commits to chase with Nea when she was leading him away from the other survivors towards a strong loop.
2:15 triple vaulting the same window to try and mind game
2:55 loses Nea and starts up chase again with Jake
3:21 Gets first down on Jake (1st person he started chasing)
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Wow I didn't watch the vid so thanks for the summary. Maybe try a different killer OP?
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As the killers like to say just do bones. I mean just pressure gens.
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They won so many times against Nurse at the time, it's something insane. People tried to snipe them, failing most times. Ruin undying is nothing practical, because if you stay on gens, and don't leave them, it's not gonna matter, even Marth said that
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I've been levelling up recently by a lot as a continue to play this game and get better. I'm really into horror stuff and adore this game. However I've noticed that the game is a bit unbiased and gens can be done a little too quickly, especially when survivors are efficient. I understand thats the point of the game, however sometimes you spawn and even if you find some-one straight away and chase then and down them in 1 minute, you could have 3 gens pop by the time they are hooked. I also understand that some people would say to just get better, but I think the matchmaking always puts you with survivors that are just a tad out your league and 1 mess up from killers throw the game.
I've thought of ways that could counteract this situation for killers being so hard and reckon it would also add a bit enjoyment to the game as well:
I believe if at the start of every game, all gens were blocked for roughly 20- 30 seconds. This gives the survivors an incentive to be stealthy, instead of for example, a SWF team having their best player find the killer and run him consistently, just leading to dull games. Especially at higher ranks, you never see survivors being stealthy because they have countless options to loop you, various ways to get saves of the killers shoulders and perks that stop any kind of snowballing a killer might be clawing onto (decisive strike, unbreakable, soul guard, borrowed time).
Adding to this they might have to stealth around and find a component that they need to repair the gens. A part that only they could see and not the killer. This then would reward survivors if they were all stealthy (which i believe is a fun part of the game) and found their part and started repairing the generator with it. However on the flip side if the killer does find them, then he doesn't have to deal with trying to counteract 3 different survivors on different gens, and by the time he's probably hooked a survivor, the other survivors have found their part and successfully started repairing on multiple gens.
What are your guys thoughts?
This is my first time posting on here, so please be nice.
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Well that settles it, nerf survivors. A few videos of survivor teams playing in a very specific, unrealistic way, one of them from truetalent no less.
Seriously why is this an issue? What's the point? I have over 3k hours into this game and have never played a team like this. I could post a few videos of killers ending games in under 3 minutes, should we then nerf killers?
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To be fair most killers who complain about "genrush" are the ones who stay at the hook camping. Yes, with some teams they will notice that and do gens, and they will get done if the killer is not pressuring because they decided to stay at the hook instead.
For me, genrushing would be all survivors with toolboxes and basically just doing gens, no totems, no saves, no heals. Otherwise I don't see it as genrush.
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I discuss, don't argue(which now assumed a different meaning from it's original latin meaning). I still think it's valid, but I admit after 3 years we need a new experiment @marth88gaming
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Hell yeah,was waiting for someone to post some of these videos.
The thing about those videos is that the killer always makes some major mistakes in these and then blames it on something else.Which is not good.Streamers like these should be able to call out their mistakes and not just call it genrush.
It only feeds into that self victimisation a lot of players fall into,that just blame something else without looking at their own mistakes they did.
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Who believes this believes this, but when comp players will do another experiment, there will be no excuse
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I'm so glad someone else went to the trouble of highlighting all the poor decisions he made that game. It's the same problem every time I've seen someone link one of his videos to "prove" a point. He overcommits to chases he doesn't need to, leaves other chases far too early and complains about dead hard when a lot of the time it's his own poor judgement causing the pressure to build up.
Even factoring in all of the above, he STILL gets a 4K out of it. Don't get me wrong, he's a better killer than me for certain but you don't have to be an expert to see how and why he was getting steamrolled.
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You can get better up to a certain point, but you can't change how the game works, there's a cap limit.
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I would say the first major mistake he did is not to farm the jake for his power and then switch targets to start his snowball
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Zzzzzzzzzzzzz
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I agree, the true video is meh. But I wonder what comp players would do against a m1 killer as Oni, maybe even with syringe insta heal, and pre dropping pallets.
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Again, an experiment to show what? That if a 4 man team plays in an extremely specific way against a bad killer they can get gens done quickly? People don't play like this. Millions of games played each month, what % of games are like this do you think? I would bet money on it being less than 1%.
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I mean yeah,nobody will disagree that oni would be completely awful against a tryhard tournament squad that plays ultra safe.
But that applies to almost every killer though
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Because it's very important if someone doesn't wanna believe what survivors potentially are able to do, + the game massively changed from 3 years ago, in terms of quality, and the balancement still improved (ds nerfed, brand new parts, moris, insta heals, infinites)
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What's the point of playing a game where you already know that if the opponents want to show their balls you will 99,99%, if not 100%, lose
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That's the point. I've heard everyone admitting this, tight lipped: dowsey, otz, ohtofu, the king, scorpionz.
Always, and repeatedly.
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So are you agreeing with me?
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He was also using Onis strongest Addon combo too :]
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It is true yes,but it's also extremely rare.
Pretty sure i can count the amount of teams i faced that played like that (in public games) on one hand.
And i play since console release
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Yes pretty much
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Not extremely rare, at all. Come here in Italy, at 1 am, cross play deactivated. You won't do a 20 game streak with any killer, I promise.
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I think we've all learned something from this thread. Gen rush doesn't exist. Now using a lot of the same logic provided in this discussion we realize that tunneling doesn't exist. Face camping isn't a threat. Noed is preventable. No killers are op. Ruin + undying is rubbish. It all stems from the fact that as long as all 4 survivors aren't playing perfectly you can nitpick all situations that are brought up.
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You can't bring gen rush perks AND second chance perks at the same time.
Gen rushing exists, but it's easily countered by applying pressure.
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Correcting the definition: "Killers don't have enough pressure on the map to stop all generators from being repaired if survivors are efficient"
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I dare you face competitive survivors with Oni, more matches. They will pre drop every pallet and before you can even use your ability 3 gens will pop, that's when you will get your first down, they will use unbreakable in the case you slug, and after the first hook the remaining 2 gens will be completed
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Let's try to consider all the possibilities: Survivors, as showed in the BOTB tournament CAN wait out corrupted intervention. So, all 4 go in a corner of the map, on a gen, and right when the killer checks if that specific gen is being repaired, that survivor starts repairing the gen.
Let's suppose 20 seconds before finding a survivor, first hit in 20 seconds, second hit in a minimum of 26,6666 seconds( the amount of time wasted JUST BY HOLDING W)+ 3 seconds to hit + 3 to pick up + 3 to hook = 75 seconds. That's a huge amount of time, 3 gens pop before you can even get there
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If we're talking about public matches, I will find a decent team and do the experiment myself again, 100 games only with ds, bt, unbreakable and soul guard. Cross play deactivated and 4 medkits with max charges. I gamble my life how it could go
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This is a pretty good reason on why the Depip squad experiment is not perfect and the same thing could be done as killer. That's why we should not calculate the real balancement of the game from public matches, but with 1 Theorical/mathematical calculus 2 Against really good players or competitive players who reached the max skill cap with survivor/ a specific killer (nurse, spirit, etc)
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Exactly my point.. Like i'm not going to sit there and say Tru3 is a ######### killer; he's fairly good. But my god does he need to analyze his gameplay before posting it with clickbait. Things like this are exactly what cause the war between Killer & Survivor.
I'm not going to try and lie and say gen times are perfect.. but as someone that plays both Killer and Survivor, the main issue I usually see comes down to RNG. If you get a bad tile spawn, survivors can waste a ton of your time easily.. but at the same time you can get a map like Backwater Swamp where you can stand in the center of the map and literally see all 7 gens or pretty much any indoor map, it's 100% different.
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As oni its doesn't matter how the rng actually is, you're still just a m1 killer. Just getting that first hit, on any map, can be super insane especially if survivors pre drop pallets.
And with other killers RNG doesn't matter that much (apart pig with tampered timer, but that's banned from tournaments of course). Plague(unless apples) and legion you're just a m1 killer, ghostface and myers also basically m1 killers just a bit spooky.
Even in the best case scenario most maps have a sufficient amount of pallets/windows, loops( groaning storehouse still has an infinite btw, well done devs, the breakable wall did nothing and you reworked the map without taking it out!), big objects to force the killer just to hold W for ages, and being sneaky (element that nowadays killers are forgetting, and survivors also: you can hide and abuse of that to counter corrupted intervention, cleanse all totems, distribute around the map all 4 before even being found by the killer, etc)
I agree with what scottjund says, or whoever thinks it, the RNG is a problem, but the foundation of the game is still crap.
Btw even a super close 3 gen can be countered, always: the killer goes to one gen, commits to chase, and the survivor runs across the map. So either the killer keeps chasing, or wastes time kicking the gen and then going to the other survivors, meanwhile the other one already came back again.
Gen regression isn't enough, you get nothing out of hooking people or punishing slugging, if not a ds in the butthole, and you're pretty much in a situation where you're always forced to patrol, slug, stay near the hook kinda.
Imma say it now, if you hook a survivor, and go completely across the map for no reason, you're not a good killer, at all. There's no start that allows this risk, to completely lose pressure.
So the problem (which exists, 100%) is not the RNG, but the foundation
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The point is that it should NEVER be possible to make the game go as fast as the death squads make it go. Pretty much every game is balanced around the best players. DBD players have this entitled notion that this game should be an exception.
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Agreed. Let's nerf the killers with instant down potential so they can stop ending games in 3-4 minutes.
Competitive games might be balanced around the best players - DBD is anything but competitive.
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As an Oni main, this video triggered the hell out of me.
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What should this video even proof? That if the killer is semi afk, gens can get done in a few minutes? A shocker! If i post a video destroying all 4 survivor in less then 90 seconds, would this mean now, that killrush is op?
This video only proofs one thing and one thing only: That the term genrush is meaningless.
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This just shows you don’t know the game. I’d say that none of the current instadown killers are viable against top level comp. DBD is a pvp game, which means it should be balanced like all of the others.
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So the game should be balanced around the extremely small chance that someone might lose one game against a team like this? I have 3294 hours in DBD and have never had this happen. Asking the game to be balanced around such a small portion of the games is absolutely bonkers.
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ALL games are balanced like this. Why is it so hard for everyone to understand? Balancing the game would barely affect the average player. A survivor who is bad at looping isn’t going to live a significant amount of time more by equipping UB and DS. They die either way.
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Do you really think this is a competitive game on the same level as CS:GO? League of Legends? I'd say this game is closer to Mario Party.
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Since you seem to think balance is so bad what would you do to fix it? Nerf pallets/loops/tiles? Add time to gens? What would you do that hasn't been done already?
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If people are sweating their butts off to win, it’s competitive.
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