Legion is the worst killer
This is just awful. Any time I pick up Legion for a daily or some other reason I always do badly. If I want a stressful game I'll just pick him. He has like zero map pressure, his ability is simply to injure, and he gets aim dressed all the time. Even Trapper is better than him because survivors can get cocky and you snowball on them. Legion has nothing like that. The only good slowdown perk on Legion, Thanatophobia is also garbage since the nerf. His stun after using his power needs to be less, or be less visually disruptive. He needs a secondary ability. He's much too simple of a killer to pose a serious threat against any team above rank 10. You just stay injured against him and push gens, or heal against him if he wants to waste all that time injuring and not downing. How did this killer make it to live?
Comments
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Dunno, it has a high pick rate, perhaps other people (Including me) like playing him? Just because he has some bad designs, doesn't mean no one likes him. I don't really care how bad he is, he's fun to me and I'd like him to stay that way. He had lost potential for sure, but I do with what I have.
Even though it's less than 1%, but some people can still consistently 3/4k with him. No killer in this game is impossible to master, but some are just harder to play with.
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Not really. Legion can at least run fast from one side of the map to the other and has a built-in slow down. Clown is in a worse spot I think.
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They are certainly not the worst Killer. In fact, they are among the select few Killers that are viable to be played competetively. It´s a matter of practice and tactical approach.
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Legion does have some problems, but they're definitely not the worst.
Those Injuries plus Deep Wound are their map pressure. Frenzy stabbing 1 person takes them out of the game for 28 seconds assuming they have a medkit to heal with. It gets worse if they have to get healed by self care or someone else without any healing perks. In that situation, the Legion has wasted a minimum of 44s of survivor time. That's half a Gen for a single stab that is very easy to land. Survivors can mitigate that slightly by healing with 2, but that's just begging Legion to show up half way through and Frenzying their way through 75% of the team.
Now yes, Survivors do try to just not heal vs them, but any decent Legion main builds their perks around that. I personally am currently enjoying running Trail of Torment on them. Budget Night Shroud suddenly makes not healing an absolutely terrible idea because that Legion could suddenly step around the corner and stab you, completely bypassing their normal weakness of having to get downs with M1. Alternatively I've also run Play WIth Your Food on them. Even a single stack of that makes attempting to loop them so much harder and if you haven't healed, that single stack turns into a down.
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I recently played against a Legion killer for the first time and had one of the most intense and fun games I've ever had lol. It actually made me want to go and buy Legion to play myself. Though I had no idea how his power worked and nearly killed myself continuing to work gens and not heal, and, even though we did beat him, it was a very long and drawn out game. The chases are what got me the most, every time I look behind me and he's charging towards me with the knife held high, I couldn't help but laugh in fear haha!
Anyway, I do hear Legion is one of the weaker killers but I heard the same thing about Ghost Face too, and yet I've grown to enjoy playing him so, I'm confident Legion won't be the worst experience. On paper, he certainly seems viable, he just maybe needs tweaks to his power cd I think.
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Big 1,000th post is about Legion being fine, poetic.
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*Laughs in clown
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Legion is definitely not the worst killer.
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Of course they're.
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It's getting boring, can you tell us at least about some planned changes for them?
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But I hope that doesn't mean no changes for them in the future...
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A killer that moves really fast has zero map pressure? You even say in your first sentence you basically only use Legion when doing a daily for them so.. why would you expect to be good with a killer you don't use?
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Legion needs a few tweaks but nothing major. A touch more reward for multiple FF stabs but removing some of the more annoying aspects to play against (healing simulator isn’t fun).
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It's funny how legion has a 4 second stun with vision impairing effects and cant see scratch marks or blood for being able to injure people for "free" and running 15% faster but spirit gets to move 66% faster(without addons) with no stun and no tell that she is using her power. Or nurse who gets to ignore the entire game and has less fatigue duration. Or bubba who gets to run not only faster than legion but also insta down people and break pallets while doing so. But don't worry, you get to apply the epic deep wound status effect and sometimes you can hit multiple people if they don't decide to just hold w.
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He don't move "really fast", just a little faster than normal. And if you use it's power for map mobility, you will not be able to use it when you find survivors
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Spirit - short cooldown, extremely lethal power, no punishment for using her power, can't see blood, basic attacks don't affect cooldown, excellent addons
Legion - long cooldown, extremely non-lethal power, punished for using your power badly, punished for using your power at all, can't see blood or scratchmarks, basic attacks make the cooldown longer, addon dependent even though half the addons essentially do nothing
Bhvr: yes but the kill rates
If legion was a new killer and you explained nothing but their limitations people would assume their power was something completely insane, like making nurse, spirit, hag etc look like complete crap.
The reality being that all interest in any killer is lost a few months after their release as they rush into the nee exciting release. If there's any serious issues they can have a rework or update a few years down the line.
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Where did this idea that Legion has map pressure through FF come from?
At standard speed in 14 seconds you'll cover 64.4 metres.
Frenzy for 10 seconds covers 52 metres + 4 second stun covers another 8.25 metres = 60.25
Frenzy is slower for travelling and you can't see scratchmarks.
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Then what is?
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Is this the data you are pulling from the top 1% of Legion players when the ranks in games look like this?
The only data that matters is the top 1% of killers going against the top 1% of survivors.
And how can you tell what are the top 1% of a killer, People who kill a lot? What if the killer only uses the most powerful add ons?
Is a top 1% huntress one that hits all their shots or the one that wins through shear disconnects because they only bring Iridecesent head?
How can you take any meaningful data from anything in public games when there are so many variables that go into every game?
What happened to the old experiments that happened over a year ago with the Vanilla Gameplay Experiment?
Why can't we seed maps so we can remove map RNG from our experiments and custom games?
Why are queue times so long for survivors at certain times of the day? Is it from the lack of killers playing?
How can you make any decisions about which maps are more or less powerful when each killer can perform drastically different depending on the map?
Is the Skill Based Matchmaking still gonna happen? If it is, what variables are considered for a high skill player? Kills? Again we run into the issue of broken add ons carrying killers. Also, bad or good map RNG alone can change the outcome of a match even with the same players and the same killer playing with the same skill, map RNG can decide whether they win or lose. Are survivor items considered for skill-based matchmaking?
I have so many questions, but I never get any answers, so I can never trust any of the choices or decisions that are made without knowing what goes into the collection of data that leads to those decisions.
All of this just seems to be wasted typing because I never get any answers or even confirmation any of what anyone says here gets considered for the game. That's why the whole community feels that any feedback we give is put directly into the shredder, we never see anything come from it or ever even have it acknowledged that someone read it.
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This is, as always, depends on the map and RNG and your mood, but I don't think Legion is the worst killer. Otz did his first 50 wins streak with Legion.
So you can win with Legion quite consistent, just learn some tricks (like for any other killer).
Some aspects of Legion's power is frustrating of course, for instance, the biggest change for me would be making his power lethal, like let me down the injured survivor.
Or, more important, why would you punish me using M1 and take some value from my power gauge?
Legion is not OP, but on average I enjoy playing him.
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Legion definitely isn't rewarding, or fun to play against, but he isn't the worst.
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Mid tier killer. Learn how to play them and you will win a lot.
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Legion is a decent killer. A year ago I might have agreed with you, but since then the reworked maps have been making m1 gameplay a lot more viable. Now the only way holding W and playing safe works is if you're on a ridiculous map, or if your team is just slamming the hell out of the gens.
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Clown is a million times worse. At least the legions power does something that changes the match, instead of having a power that slows survivors down, but has a very long reload that requires you to move at survivor crouching pace, to the point it counters itself out.
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Any chance Legion can stop losing some of their power when they M1 people or their whole power when they pick people up? Overall I really like Legion, but those 2 things bug me.
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I beg to differ, either your playing skill is not very high or its some of the perks you run. Honestly, I have done very well and very poor with legion. However I have done very well with all killers and very poor with all killers. Yes in the red ranks if that makes any difference. There is a set of add ons I prefer for him, and some I will never use.
Honestly, a lot of my builds come from youtubers who make builds. Im to lazy to experiment on my own and when I do the few times. It fails horribly.
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You guys crack me up.
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You call Legion fast? Sure dude. It certainly feels like it due to the intrusive run effects on the side of the screen, but I know my distances and he feels like he's barely going faster while in his ability than his normal walk speed.
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That is one thing that needs to go, and should never have been introduced. Why should Legion lose some of his meter for not even using his power? It doesn't make any sense.
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Every team is slamming gens these days, so that's probably it.
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My philosophy for how good a killer is also takes into account how they do with no add-ons or with brown add-ons. He does awful without duration and extra effect add-ons. Because if you have to use a select build or two, or a few select add-ons for the killer to work, he's no good.
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Legion is very, very, very bad, but he's not the worst.
He's pretty good at snowballing and slowing the game, because he keeps people injured constantly.
This isn't enough to make him higher than D tier, but it still puts him above complete dumpster fires like Wraith, Myers, and Clown.
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You rely far too much on statistics to make your judgements and ignore the clear in-game interactions the determine if any killer is good or bad.
The ranking system is terrible, enabling killers who simply delay the game and get minimal downs, perhaps without even killing anyone, to still rank up. The same goes for survivors do a merely acceptable job of repairing gens, getting chased, and saving others, still ranking up. Allowing them to reach red ranks just playing for long enough without improving.
This is why red ranks are so diluted with players of so much varying skill in games and why your statistics are not as important factor about balancing the game as you think they are. They are skewed with so many variables, like the aforementioned player kill and also map rng, that they do not create an accurate representation of how the game's balance actually is.
I think you should take a greater look into how the game functions so you are more capable of balancing it.
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Maybe play legion more than “deciding to play legion” for a daily or randomly?
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Alright kiddos I made an account just for yall so buckle up. I'm a legion main with a few months of experience, currently rank 10 but can compete with rank 8 fairly well. I'm going to leave some of my thoughts on legion since... Very few people on this thread appear to actually know what they're talking about beyond 'legion bad'
Alright first I'll just start with how to play legion cause why not. Typical start, find where everyone is (I like to use the perk which shows when people work together on gens). Once you've found them and you think you can land a hit on them, use frenzy, stab EVERYONE on the map once, everyone should now be injured and if you have the right add ons (I reccomend the legion pin to apply broken and things to extend the frenzy duration cause its way too short and needs a slight buff). You'll probably have sprinted across the map from the original gen but that's fine, they won't be working on it. If they're a team who know what they're doing then they'll probably be healing now, giving you time to complete the chase on the final survivor you stabbed. If this looks like it'll be about 30 seconds, try to guide them towards the original gen you found people at. Use your power only when people are healed or you need to scare people away from a distant gen. Rest of the game you're stuck as an m1 killer except hopefully everyone will be injured and you can get multiple downs at once. That is the ideal legion situation.
Now the less good situation is when everyone is a master at dodging in this game, because it makes it less and less likely you'll score hits with feral frenzy, effectively making you useless. What makes this even harder I've noticed is that for some reason legion doesn't seem to hit straight in front of him, especially in frenzy, and instead hits a little off to the right so that if somebody loops you clockwise it can mean you hit walls when you shouldn't.
Another bad situation is when sqauds are constantly healed, but all you can really do about that is split them up and make it so people aren't able to body block.
My main problems with legion:
The thing where you hit to the right
The stun after frenzy seems slightly long, should maybe be 3 seconds instead of 4.
Many of their attachments seem completely useless, such as anything which mentions deep wounds as in the several months I've played I've only seen one person get downed due to deep wounds.
The inability to see scratch marks can be a real pain, especially in the endgame if you use feral frenzy to get between gates, though it isn't a huge problem and you learn to work around it.
It may be purely visual, but legion seems to have a much smaller lunge range (probably because of the smol knife)
Your power has no use in the endgame collapse, unless gates are closed. You're far better playing as an m1 killer as soon as the gates open.
Other than that... Legion is actually playable. Now I definitely wouldn't call him a great killer, but if you learn how to play him then you can be a nightmare for a team who don't heal each other.
I probably forgot something but who cares.
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You know the one change I'd want to see? For the gauge to not slightly deplete when you hit someone with a basic attack. I don't have every killer but all the other killers I do have don't get punished for hitting someone with a basic attack
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Reminder that Frank's Mixtape and Stab Wounds Study are absolutely worthless since the rework. Maybe Legion is average in terms of kill rate, but everything about their existence has been frustrating. The misleading trailer, the buggy release, the toxic playstyle, the underwhelming rework, the bad add-ons, the lack of updates (aside from adding new skins...)
I completely understand why some people dislike The Legion.
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He's pretty much an M1 Killer IMO,
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If the survivors let you " stab EVERYONE on the map once" then they don't know what they're doing against Legion. Running away from him does a lot, the only people who get chained are the ones close together who don't run right away or at all. You also need to be lucky enough to find every grouped to begin with, and good survivors split up as soon as the game starts. Sincerely a Legion player since his release.
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Not the worst, but far from being in the middle of the pack like Almo says.
They get punished for hitting a survivor with a basic attack. You know, THE THING KILLERS ARE REQUIRED TO DO IN ORDER TO DOWN A SURVIVOR. It takes away half of their power bar when you hit a survivor with a basic attack.
You can counter a legion by holding W for an extended period, and by not grouping up. Which are already valid tactics against most other killers.
But getting hit by their power is super annoying because the game is already a 'hold one button for 80 seconds simulator'. But their power adds another 'hold one button for X amount of time' interaction.
Not to mention how much of a joke deep wounds is.
They need tons of QoL changes to make them better to play as, and against.
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I am not sure I completely agree. I have had games, in the red ranks which again Red Ranks mean jack flip, other than determined people playing. I have had it where I slaughtered a group of people with no add-ons. Mean, of course perks but with Legion, the perks I used for him didn't slow the game down. Like with Ruin or other ones similar to that expect for than Thanatophobia. Got a 4k with little effort. Again, failed horribly. I average with Legion 2 - 3 kills a match. Most of the time the last one gets out by hatch (darn hatch GRRR).
For example, my favorite with no add-ons which isn't a popular opinion is the Doctor. Don't know why, but zapping the heck out of people always makes me happy.
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You realize that a killer with NO power would perform good overall? 50% of kills happen because survivors play dumb, get farmed, DC, whatever. It's not that the killer is strong...
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Legion: Spawns on like Rancid Abattoir, survivors are grouped up, survivors are not aware being grouped up is bad. *Stab stab stab stab, 4K* Survivors go to forums and complain about how boring legion is.
Legion: Spawns on Shelter woods, survivors spawn separated and know this is good. Entire start of the game is just a disaster because he has to haul ass around the entire massive map; and it just goes downhill to a 4 man escape. Legion player talks about how underpowered legion is on the forums and asks for buffs.
Bhvr: Well this means he got 2 kills on average so the killer is fine!
That logic is so messed up. There are clear design and balance problems with the killer; because his kit is literally situational. It's strong in one set up; and just awful in another. Shouldn't it be based on how the killer and survivors perform; and less about the map, the luck of spawns, and other nonsense?
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I don't get where this bad comparission come from, you need to compare how much you cover with 14 seconds of Frenzy. Only in that way you're doing a fair comparission... the stun time can't be counted to travel because obviously, you're stunned.
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