Top 1% Survivors Escape Rate
I was wondering if we could get the escape rate of the top 1% of survivors? We know Top 1% Nurse mains have an insanely high kill rate, so let's use that as a basis to find out just how much the best of the best survivors escape.
Any help @Almo @not_Queefand other devs?
Comments
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The data that they use to make changes based on killers is from the top 1% of killer players.
If they made survivor changes based on the top 1% of survivors, well there would certainly be more survivor nerfs than what we are seeing.
But to be honest I don't think we need survivor nerfs. We need a solo player buffs.
Bring solo survivors up to the level of an SWF team. Then buff all the killers accordingly. Then every survivor would have the tools to succeed if they work together.
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tHe DaTa DuDe
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Escape in solo? In swf? Through the gates? When matchmaking works?
It's the same issue as with killers. Lots of variables that must be contextualized.
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How do you classify top 1 percent survivor mains? Because I know alot of surviovrs many would call good and i'd be strugglign to admit they are decent.
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I disagree because survivors are too boosted. We need to filter the potatoes out by skill based matchmaking like COD COLD WAR.
Can we really say Freddy is so overpowered because the R1 killers are that good with him or because the survivors they're playing are boosted potatoes, DC, or simply don't know how to deal with him?
I'm a former red rank that's now green. I play against rainbows all the time and NONE OF THEM HAVE ESCAPED MY HAG... NONE! How am I a green rank (14), decimating reds and purples with a 110 killer?
Keep in mind my build is Devour, BBQ, Ruin, & MYC/Bamboozle.
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I doubt they'll do that because according to their stats, swfs dont have that much of a higher success rate than solos.
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That's incredibly false
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The real question is what does top 1% mean. They still haven't defined a win. Max emblem score? Max bloodpoints? Escapes/Kills?
Still no details on MMR either. Whatever parameters they use are kept secret, and if they really use escapes/kills to define balance, then there's a ton of flaws with using that raw data without understanding why those escapes/kills happened. I assume DCs and hook suicides count as kills? Much of the data they've given us isn't credible because of the uncontrolled factors.
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They never do get contextualized either.
Yet they still use that flawed data as an excuse to nerf certain killers.
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it's at 34:52. But what that means exactly, I dont know and Tbf, this video is old (It was around the deathslinger era).
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That's what I'd like to know myself honestly. Killers are nerfed because the BEST OF THE BEST Killers supposedly "overperform", but my question is...
Are they overperforming against the best? Potatoes? Like who are they supposedly destroying when we just saw a game end in 2:30!
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well if sfw is 2 squad to 4 squad then yes the escape rate is not that high, again if sfw is 2 and 3 squad included then yea no ######### sfw have normal escape rate, aslo when they escape what perk do they use ect...
i don't believe a word on what they say about stat unless they public show the raw data for everyone
really? i have been playing red rank killer and survivor during the day and evening (contrary to the night before) and guess what a lot of very competent survivor out there, it's really common to have 3+ escape in a match and at minimum agaisn't the best killer that slug and all those stuff there is 2 escape.
I play solo survivor btw. idk if it's beceause of vacation or something but as a killer i find no fun playing cau'z even if i have 2 kill i only hooked the survivor less than 5 time. no fun whatsoever to slug like a ######### to win but it's mandatory or they 4 or 3 man escape
No wonder survivor queue time are bad, this game should have bot as killer so at least everyone in a match as a good time. It may be du to vacation or covid but at 18-21 pm it's where it's the hardest cau's it's so mixed if you play well you have potatoes and if you play a low tier killer everyone escape.
Post edited by Mandy on0 -
How exactly would they quantify that? Just using rank 1 would dilute it a lot as 90% of red ranks are boosted trash.
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Hence why they should actually fix the ranking system instead of ignoring it by using MMR.
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I would love to know aswell.
Also you probably accidentally tagged the wrong person.
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It would be interesting if the escape rate of the top 1% survivors versus each killer lines up with the kill rate of the top 1% killers.
E.g. is the escape rate the lowest for the best performing killer when looking at the top 1%?
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I would love to see Kindred be basekit for Solo Q (ONLY for the non-SWF players).
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it would destroy their stat so don't count on it
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I think Franklin's Denise should be basekit. How do you get hit with a chainsaw but don't drop your item?
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This is something literally everyone, even dedicated killer mains, has been asking for for years, but BHVR don't care about that.
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I agree 100% dude, Almo say Freddy is op n stuff, but if you mention SWF, DS/UB combo n all that stuff, he either cant tell you anything or pretend that stats are fine, i just dont believe that, Freddy gets stompes by 4 man, cordinated SWF, but he pretends that SWF is not part of the problem.
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What's wrong with swf? I swear y'all hate people who play with friends and idk why lmao
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If you ever go against sweaty, 4 man, gen rushing swf you will see whats the problem about that. Survivors are power role but love to pretend that they are underpowered lol.
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SWF has way more advantages than solo like proper coordination, comms, extreme perk synergy, etc. It's really unfair honestly. Imagine going into every game and the killer knows pretty much everything you'll do before you do it... That's SWF in a sense.
You got downed? Tell other survivors work on gens. Killer headed to survivors? Tell them urban evade away. Getting chased? Tell others to hammer gens hard.
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And don't forget: Use Object Of Obsession and tell your team where the killer is at all times.
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That's why we need proper skill based matchmaking to truly see how R1 survivors are escaping in these games. The potatoes will be filtered out quite easily.
Imagine if they disabled PWF for a month to test. You will truly see where everyone stands then.
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Their system to determine skill is flawed, and any data they extrapolate from such a flawed system is going to be flawed and meaningless. What is a top 1% killer anyway? Do they define a top killer by number of kills? What about gens done, or chases that end in a down.
The problem becomes substantially worse if you put survivors into the equation, what is bad for the individual survivor can be good for the survivor team. This is the basis for why they said OoO is fine, because it does not alter individual survivor survival rates, but it certainly alters survivor team survival rates, as OoO encourages tunneling on the individual survivor.
They have admitted themselves that they don't know what constitutes skill on their game, and because of that, there is no way to gauge killer performance or even survivor performance. At rank 1 killer I run into rank 1 survivors that absolutely decimate me, and then I run into rank 1 survivors that can barely get 10% of 1 gen done before I 4k them. Most games are somewhat inbetween these two extremes, but the problem is that bad survivors are skewing the statistics. If I run into a team of halfway decent survivors with one or two good survivors, I'm getting a 1-2k most of the time. And by most of the time, it's like 80% of the time.
Survivors overperform when they know what do to, and killers overperform when survivors don't know what to do. Most survivors don't know what to do, it's not that killers are too powerful, it's that the game doesn't do enough to force survivors to play better. You don't need to know how to run a killer as a survivor, all you need to do is learn how to stay on gens and hide, and this is a glaring problem. You don't NEED to interact with the killer as a survivor, but as a killer, you NEED to interact with all the survivors.
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Or nerf swf directly with a healing and reapir speed debuff. Make the effect increase in potency with each member added. Start off with a minor reduction. I dont make these suggestion without knowing it woud affect my games since 90% of my survivor gameplay is swf. There are a lot of tool and co ordination at an swf fingertips. This would only affect the premade group of course.
Side note kindred has massively improved the quality of my solo queue games. I feel its more mansatory then even ds.
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I fail to see the point of this request
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Probably the same way 99% of Hag players win. Chase one surv for 3 gens, hook him and place 10 traps around the hook just to proxy camp afterwards...
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Exactly, there are many ways to balance this yet they don't do anything.
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I think this is abit backwards really:
We need to nerf everything down to the same level, here's my reasoning:
Both sides have a plethera of nuclear options: 4 man SWF with all meta, old moris, keys, spirit with MDR and Yakuyoke amulet, forever Freddy, small pp build, blood amber, whatever else.
I think right now there needs to be a handicap for swf, maybe like a +10% matchmaking rank or mmr for a 4 man swf +5% for 3 man, I think this allows non sweat swfs to play more casually while still giving them the challenge because no matter how you look at it even casually playing being swf that doesnt even sweat is a ridiculous ######### advantage, and it still allows the sweatiest of the sweatiest to go against eachother.
Notice that this method doesnt remove anything from gameplay and doesn't effect skill ceilings.
I think this should happen with certain addons on killers too but not killer themselves, because a rank 10 nurse who hasnt touched her since their first match shouldn't be put in red ranks, like they are right now.
I've also noticed something, killers are so consistently matched with ranks higher than them that basically at rank 10 if you try pick up a new better killer you're going against 3-4 red ranks, 100%.
I think it should it be harder to rank up, I've noticed that as a trapper/billy main floating around purple and green I'm consistently ranked with 3-4 reds as billy, who isn't even that good of a killer and I had only picked up a few days ago when i noticed this, this wasn't SBMM, it was just an assumption cuz i was playing a mid tier killer, but the worst part is after getting onto my feet after 2 days or so I was actually keeping up with them and gettign a few 4ks, but I wasn't ranking up but occassionally I'd get a bad map or an unfortunate match and 0k and then I'd plummet straight back into the 4ks. Most of these people were the same rank btw some were boosted and some were just destroying me, I had no arbitrary way of rankng myself and the game wasn't even ranking me up or down.
I couldn't say ohthese guys were really good cuz last match i 4ked the exact same ranks, so what was it, luck? bad map? me?
The game didn't rank me down, I 4ked on hawkins multiple times and it one of the worst maps for killer and billy's mobility, luck is the only option then.
The game gave me no feedback at all on why I lost or how good I am.
The only reason I have other than gettign unlucky is there's a massive disparity in skill in each rank.
Now i know skill =/= rank but it's the only vsual representation of how good I am/ how good other players think I am.
I think if it was harder for surv or both sides to rank up the mmr sysatem would actually match with the emblem system, or just delete one or the other.
It's also partly because at rank 20 for the most part the game is really survivor sided becuase their skill floor is a lot lower, but as soon as killer wisen up it becomes a slaughter house then it kind of balances out in high yellows.
I think at the lowest level and the highest the game is not fun because of nuclear options or skill floors and ceilings, survivor's being a lot lower.
The WORST problems in dbd is the nuclear options (the top1%) and the matchmaking(the 99%).
We don't need solo buff, we need a swf nerf and nuclear option removal and for me to actuallgo against my rank in order to have a balanced game
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Implying the game be balanced around "1%" of survivors is ridiculous, especially considering you're probably not even in the top "1%" of killers, so wanting the game to be easier for you because one percent of survivors that are "the best" is just beyond sane.
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And you want this game to be easy for survivors, since it's balanced around the top 1% of killers. Your argument is hypocritical.
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What lmao?
How is it balanced around the top 1% of killers?
The top 1% of killers are actually good.
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How do you define “top 1% of survivors”? The ones that escape? Score more points? Unhook more teammates safely? Do more gens? Whine more? Loop longer but leave their teammates with no pallets? Click their flashlight faster? More tbags in 5 seconds vs. others? What is it?
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The game isn’t meant to be taken seriously. It’s meant to be more chill and casual. It’s not an esport
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Almo specifically said that they make balance changes based off of the top 1% of killers. The obvious issue here is whether or not they take the top 1% of survivors into account as well. A top 1% killer vs a team of bottom 25% survivors is probably going to result in the killer winning.
All games that pit one human against another human or team of humans are competitive by nature. Name a single game in all of human history, including non-video games that pits two or more people against each other that isn't competitive. Where there is competition and PvP, there is always a hunger for balance, and that hunger for balance tends to favor skillful play, not cheesy game mechanics. Meritocratic systems are by definition fair for all involved, as the difference between two players isn't their ability to exploit game imbalances, but their skill levels.
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Do you have a source for this bc if i know this forum it's ability to take something completely out of context and twist it is it's special ability.
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I´d love those stats!
Propably not much suprise though. Just imagine how often would team Agony, Kanapek or Shift W gamers escape against the average pub Killer? Well over 90% guaranteed. Top 1% Solos propably more around 75-80%, but we won´t know till the stats are shown.
The video that @ZaKzan tries to post explains a reasonable way of gathering better data on that.
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and in the video nowhere does Almo say "we specifically balance players around the 1% of people who play them", if that were the case, nurse would be nerfed into absolute oblivion, same for spirit, Oni & blight. But that just isn't the case.
Post edited by Rizzo on2 -
He specifically says that he works with the statictics by looking at the Kill rates of the top 1% players of each respective Killer, which implies that this is the foundation of his balance decisions.
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I remember the fallout of the previous set of statistics. Cue the obvious "Nerf high killrate Killers"- ranting at the sight of the " Red Rank Players" statistics. Turns out, their "Red Rank Players" statistics only looked at the killer ranks, and disregarded the survivors' ranks.
Theoretical red rank survivor statistics need to track ALL PLAYERS ranks in the trials. Cant get good stats if your opponent AND/OR your teammates arent your rank.
Too bad the game suffers from bad matchmaking AND bad ranking systems, lol
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Balancing a singular killer around their 1% maybe, but not the entire game, also the top 1% of clowns are phenomenal, the top 1% of every killer is phenomenal (hence why they are the top 1%) if the only thing they balanced around were the top 1% of X then no killer would ever get buffed or nerfed because looking at the top 1% makes every killer look viable.
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And yet they are getting buffed and nerfed because BHVRs statistics, contrary to your percieved reality, show that they either under- or overperform, hence why Nurse and Hillbilly got severely nerfed (rightfully so though but they overdid it with Billy). Almo is notorious for basing his decisions on raw data.
The data is obviously to be taken with a grain of salt because as you say, for example, top 1% clown players appear to be phenomenal from the average red rank pov yet he remains laughable for the top 1% of Survivor players regardless.
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Eww, linking the literal most biased player, who is genuinely awful at the game is hilarious.
Please address the argument and not the source of the clip. Especially not in such a disrespectful way.
@Slashstreetboy has already addressed the quote from Almo, so I am skipping over that part.
if that were the case, nurse would be nerfed into absolute oblivion, same for spirit, Oni & blight. But that just isn't the case.
Please show a source that shows that Nurse, Spirit, Oni and Blight overperform or are being used by the top 1% players. In this post @Almo has stated that Nurse is in the top 25%:
There is no information that I know of regarding the ranking of Spirit, Oni or Blight. Freddy is the #1:
And Freddy was confirmed to be getting changes in the near future. I can't find the source for that currently though. It is unknown where Nurse ranked previously but the rework / remaster of her power is widely regarded as an overall nerf.
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It's unfair if the survivors make it unfair.
The fact of the matter is there are lots of casual SWF players who just want to play with their friends and they're basically just goofing off. Many times it's one guy who loves the game trying to get a newb to play with him so you et a Rank 20 and a much higher rank 2-man SWF. Believe me there is no perk synergy and explaining to the newb what to do is not going to result in any kind of coordination.
I don't deny that there are survivors who do play as 4-man commando squads but these are a very small minority. I've never even one as killer, and even just a 3-man commando squad with me as the solo q I have never come across.
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Source?
Sounds like you're making that up.
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You clearly don't undertstand my point, if ANY killer were to be balanced around their 1% they wouldn't be nerfed or buffed because the top 1% is almost always exclusively 3/4King, just like the 1% of survivors are almost always escaping.
The devs aren't balancing around these percentiles and to assume so because some out of context clips or quotes doesn't prove otherwise.
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