Hatch is a design flaw
In a scenario where you are the killer in a pvp "competitive" game, of course you want to win, and for some people to win is to kill all 4 survivors, and if you can kill all 4, why won't you?
So, what I want to say with this is that I understand why the devs designed the game so when there's one survivor left the hatch opens, and the reason is so at least one survivor won't be frustrated after a defeat, so they give them a chance to win even if they didn't do all neccessary objectives.
The problem with this is that: It doesn't actually stop the killer from killing all four of them if they REALLY, REALLY, want to, and then again, why won't the killer want to win? so it's reasonable to say that if the killer REALLY wants to win, they WILL slug for the win, after all, they want to win and it's not their fault that in order to do so, they are forced to slug the third survivor for MINUTES and MINUTES, sometimes even 4 minutes of pure boring hide and seek, making the game EXTREMELY boring for everyone involved.
Now, is it the killers fault for slugging? No, it isn't, because the game incentivizes them to do so, this is the devs fault because when they designed it, they probably didn't think that killers would try to "counter" the hatch by slugging and extending the match for so long and making it so boring. This is a matter of game design flaw and it should be addressed, it actually surprises me that it wasn't already. But then, there are many design flaw in this game that they still didn't fix after many years so I don't really expect them to actually fix something.
A quick fix to this would be to add a bleed out option, so once you hit half the bleeding bar you would be able to ######### by bleeding out (just like you can kill youself on the hook). This would also fix the problem where toxic killers leave you on the ground until you bleed out instead of just hooking you (even saw this happening to a dev yesterday)
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There is nothing wrong with giving a survivor a reason to at least keep playing and an achievable objective; that has strong killer counterplay and they also have priority at hatch as well.
The current issues that are generally agreed on by most people with hatch, are to do with keys. In which case there is a clear problem that is supposedly going to be addressed at some point in the future.
The most desired outcome, is for keys to only work on hatch once all generators have been completed. However what happens we'll have to wait and see.
I would add:
-It is not the killers fault if they want to slug; do what you want. The game will end one way or another, you can play how you want. Other people don't need to agree, but you are playing a game their opinions are up to you to decide if they have merit or not.
-Some changes, albeit I agree they have taken way too long, are coming. EGC helped with a lot of late game problems; but there are still some to deal with yes.
-It doesn't have to take that long. Between perks, sounds, blood trails, etc.... there are numerous ways to locate a downed survivor. If it takes you that long; you are doing something wrong most likely. All the perk/ability side options fall right into the meta too so chances are you'll have at least one, and if not the other queues should cut that time down significantly- assuming the person even tried to crawl off and hide anyways.
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The final survivor should have a way to escape, but the hatch is way to RNG.
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Killers can play how they want. I want my hatch regardless.
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I kinda agree with you at some point, yes, I think it's an a**hole move to slug for the 4k and there aren't many benefits from doing it so, I also really hate killers that do slug for the 4k, the thing is that I can't really blame them, the blame is on devs to allow an almost unanimous unfun thing to happen, just like I can't blame people for camping in a COD game, it's more in the devs for designing a map that incentives you to camp, just like in dbd it incentives the killer to slug. (yes, people will find a way to be a**holes no matter what, but this is not an excuses for devs to just let unfun things in the game and not even try to fix them)
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I didn't ask the hatch to be removed, I also think it is neccessary, but the way it works right now isn't fun incentivizing the killers to slug.
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yes I agree with you, it's an a**hole move to slug for the 4k and there aren't many benefits from doing it so, although it's on devs to design something that does not incentivize behaviours such as this one, just like in cod they design maps trying to reduce as much as possible the possibility to camp in one place (and of course people will find a way to be a**holes no matter what, but it doesn't means the devs can just let it go and not even try to address it in some way)
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I think your premise is incorrect - that most players define winning as a 4K.
While DBD doesn't set clear guidelines as to what is a "win", I think most players will agree that a 3K is a win for the killer. Therefore, killers are still winning if they do not slug for the 4K. It is the killers prerogative if they want to slug, but nothing in the game is forcing them to as they have already won.
A easy solution would just be to give survivors a option to bleed out on the ground after a certain amount of time - while also reworking adepts.
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this is exactly what I mean, I don't want a change to favour either killers nor survivors, I just want to not have to wait for minutes because the killer is slugging, an option to just bleed out is perfect for me
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no, I agree with you, the game should have more objectives for survivors since it's pretty basic and it didn't really change all these years, but if they won't add an option to just let you bleed out after a while voluntarily, imagine designing somethin this big
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That's exactly what I mean, I don't want a change to favor either killer nor survivors, I just don't want to have to wait for minutes on the ground while doing nothing, an option to just bleed out would be perfect.
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I agree with you on this one too, I'm not saying they are incompetent, I'm just saying that this isn't and will never be a reality simply because they don't want to, they are getting enough money as it is and they don't really want to make some big things like this, as their history says, and I'm not even saying this is a bad thing, after all it's their game, but I would like to see some changes
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"unless you know where the last survivor is" killers need to stop slugging for the 4k then when they don't know where the last survivor is after they slugged the other remaining survivor. When I'm slugged and the killer doesn't know where the last survivor is I will dc idc not there to have my time wasted
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exactly
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You are wrong.
Catch-up mechanics in a competitive game are necessary, otherwise the moment one side has an advantage the other just gives up and then nobody has fun.
This is extremely basic Game Design 101. You should learn a bit of it before you talk about what mechanics are design flaws.
This game still has many flaws in its design, but the hatch is not one of them. Neither is NoEd, which is a necessary component of the game.
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I'm loving it.
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then again, you probably didn't read the answers, I said I don't want the hatch to be removed and the hatch is actually neccessary for the game, I just said that staying in the ground for 4 minutes without doing ANYTHING AT ALL is not fun at all for nobody involved and it IS something devs didn't think it would happen, (just like when they designed victor they didn't think about the fact that haddonfield makes him pretty much useless)
all I'm asking is to give us an option to bleed out on the ground, just like we can kill ourselves on hook, what is the difference? if the killer wouldn't slug and put me in the hook instead I would be able to kill myself so why can't I kill myself after waiting minutes on the ground? it literally makes 0 difference from when you're hooked
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Ok then when you play survivor, of course you want to win and a win is 4 escapes.
So survivors are asking for 50/50% chance of winning in a "competitive" game, means we ask that half the games are 4 escapes.
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what are you even talking about
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Winning is not a 4K. 2K is a draw, more than this is a win. Period.
So everything else about the hatch is dumb.
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