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Why is The Spirit so over bloated on Weaknesses?
For a Killer everyone thought would make it into the top 5. She seems to be rotting away in the lower mid Killer tier. Did the Dev's really think she was going to be so ground breaking and over powered just because she could turn invisible and Pig sprint?
Slower movement speed + Not being able to see people. Stacked on with the same weaknesses all other Killer's suffer from. Seems a bit much.
Comments
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She's fine with that, her white noise is just too loud and cooldown is too long since she can only use power at 100%. I think the killer needs to know when passive phasing occurs for proper mindgames.Wraff said:For a Killer everyone thought would make it into the top 5. She seems to be rotting away in the lower mid Killer tier. Did the Dev's really think she was going to be so ground breaking and over powered just because she could turn invisible and Pig sprint?
Slower movement speed + Not being able to see people. Stacked on with the same weaknesses all other Killer's suffer from. Seems a bit much.
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Nobody thought she's make it into the top 5. Fact is, Killers, people who play both sides, and even some Survivors had been warning the devs that she was weak as hell and needed buffs.
EDIT: Naturally, biased Survivors made it seem like she was too powerful, but biased people can hardly be trusted to be objective about anything.4 -
And those opinions were deemed useless with comments like "she's only been out for x time", "we tested it internally and thought it would be to strong", "she's a high skill killer, you just have to learn her", etc. From the devs...Orion said:Nobody thought she's make it into the top 5. Fact is, Killers, people who play both sides, and even some Survivors had been warning the devs that she was weak as hell and needed buffs.
I mean, why have a PTB in the first place, if you ignore the opinions of the players?8 -
@Tsulan said:
And those opinions were deemed useless with comments like "she's only been out for x time", "we tested it internally and thought it would be to strong", "she's a high skill killer, you just have to learn her", etc. From the devs...I mean, why have a PTB in the first place, if you ignore the opinions of the players?
The PTB is primarily to find bugs. I can hardly blame them for ignoring knee-jerk reactions, but at the same time, Killers and people who play both sides have a good track record when it comes to ascertaining whether something is powerful or not.
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@Wraff said:
For a Killer everyone thought would make it into the top 5. She seems to be rotting away in the lower mid Killer tier. Did the Dev's really think she was going to be so ground breaking and over powered just because she could turn invisible and Pig sprint?Slower movement speed + Not being able to see people. Stacked on with the same weaknesses all other Killer's suffer from. Seems a bit much.
The devs told us that not every killer is meant to be viable at high level.
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The issue was how poor the ptb was, the clown had ptb a and ptb b testing live current clown and post change clown. People couldn't even test the live spirit or the adjusted spirit slated for release, and midchapter buffs already happening to her. I admit, not seeing blood isn't bad. They are probably taking precaution with invisible killers cause we know how they did freddy. I'd rather get buffs overtime than a survivor base killing a character.
Tldr clown had ptb a and ptb b, spirit testing never showed "live" testing, it was always behind as if they were concerned with a deadline. Great work on the chapter but execution of testing wasn't smooth, hopefully next ptb is more smooth.0 -
@DeadByFlashlight said:
@Wraff said:
For a Killer everyone thought would make it into the top 5. She seems to be rotting away in the lower mid Killer tier. Did the Dev's really think she was going to be so ground breaking and over powered just because she could turn invisible and Pig sprint?Slower movement speed + Not being able to see people. Stacked on with the same weaknesses all other Killer's suffer from. Seems a bit much.
The devs told us that not every killer is meant to be viable at high level.
Yeah. Only three of them are
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Someone on Reddit is trying to prove ot me that she is top 3, right behind Billy. She has too many downsides to be good for top 3.
Is she fun to plau? Hell yes
Is she "meta"? Doubt it0 -
@Mr_Myers said:
Someone on Reddit is trying to prove ot me that she is top 3, right behind Billy. She has too many downsides to be good for top 3.Is she fun to plau? Hell yes
Is she "meta"? Doubt itNo way she is better than hag
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Hmmn I wonder why so many rank 1 killers are playing her and getting 3-4k constantly right now if she's so trashy. Monto and Angry Pug the latter whos been on both sides of my matches has played her under a different name and wrecked with her.
I've been seeing a lot of really good spirits do really well with her at rank 1 even against really good loopers. No one will ever be Nurse tier since she breaks all rules of the game but she's doing pretty well so far. Now granted she does need some qol buffs for sure, but to say she's trash is delusional.
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Her power is too restrictive, she needs a decent amount of work to be viable, on top of that, she's probably the hardest killer to play. If they reduce the sound of her using her power that survivors hear, reduce the powers CD, buff the speed in it a bit, allow her to use her power without it being fully charged, she could honestly compete with high tier killers, like Billy, Clown, even Hag. But as she is now, regardless of how many rank 1 killers 4k with her (let's be real this is not a good indicator as they can 4k with even Freddy) she is just okay, fun as hell but just okay, her power doesn't justify being slower than base killer speed yet. Thankfully we know that she is at least getting her powers CD reduced.1
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people do well with freddy but i don't see anyone calling him powerful.powerbats said:Hmmn I wonder why so many rank 1 killers are playing her and getting 3-4k constantly right now if she's so trashy. Monto and Angry Pug the latter whos been on both sides of my matches has played her under a different name and wrecked with her.
I've been seeing a lot of really good spirits do really well with her at rank 1 even against really good loopers. No one will ever be Nurse tier since she breaks all rules of the game but she's doing pretty well so far. Now granted she does need some qol buffs for sure, but to say she's trash is delusional.
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@yeet said:
people do well with freddy but i don't see anyone calling him powerful.
True but those that get know how to get the most out of him do so and the same for Rin. The Nurse is a perfect example of those that will learn the cahmp to the fullest will get the most out of them. IF you're not willing to work hard to maximize and learn them to the fullest they'll always be trash.
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what's the point in learning her when you could learn nurse and get 500x the success.powerbats said:@yeet said:
people do well with freddy but i don't see anyone calling him powerful.
True but those that get know how to get the most out of him do so and the same for Rin. The Nurse is a perfect example of those that will learn the cahmp to the fullest will get the most out of them. IF you're not willing to work hard to maximize and learn them to the fullest they'll always be trash.
not to mentjon how they killed any semblance of mindgames or stealth with the changes out of the PTB, her power is low tier now, anecdotal evidence of people sometimes doing well against poor survivors means very little.3 -
@yeet said:
powerbats said:@yeet said:
people do well with freddy but i don't see anyone calling him powerful.
True but those that get know how to get the most out of him do so and the same for Rin. The Nurse is a perfect example of those that will learn the cahmp to the fullest will get the most out of them. IF you're not willing to work hard to maximize and learn them to the fullest they'll always be trash.
what's the point in learning her when you could learn nurse and get 500x the success.
not to mentjon how they killed any semblance of mindgames or stealth with the changes out of the PTB, her power is low tier now, anecdotal evidence of people sometimes doing well against poor survivors means very little.Because some people want more variety in a game besides playing nurse 24/7
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theres more killers that are much better than spirit than just nurseZanfer said:@yeet said:
powerbats said:@yeet said:
people do well with freddy but i don't see anyone calling him powerful.
True but those that get know how to get the most out of him do so and the same for Rin. The Nurse is a perfect example of those that will learn the cahmp to the fullest will get the most out of them. IF you're not willing to work hard to maximize and learn them to the fullest they'll always be trash.
what's the point in learning her when you could learn nurse and get 500x the success.
not to mentjon how they killed any semblance of mindgames or stealth with the changes out of the PTB, her power is low tier now, anecdotal evidence of people sometimes doing well against poor survivors means very little.Because some people want more variety in a game besides playing nurse 24/7
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The spirit is getting buffs which should've been at launch like the clown buffs but we are getting them later. She is a demon with some add ons but once again add on reliant. She should be ok without add ons or good without add ons, not meh. So, good to see what will change.yeet said:
theres more killers that are much better than spirit than just nurseZanfer said:@yeet said:
powerbats said:@yeet said:
people do well with freddy but i don't see anyone calling him powerful.
True but those that get know how to get the most out of him do so and the same for Rin. The Nurse is a perfect example of those that will learn the cahmp to the fullest will get the most out of them. IF you're not willing to work hard to maximize and learn them to the fullest they'll always be trash.
what's the point in learning her when you could learn nurse and get 500x the success.
not to mentjon how they killed any semblance of mindgames or stealth with the changes out of the PTB, her power is low tier now, anecdotal evidence of people sometimes doing well against poor survivors means very little.Because some people want more variety in a game besides playing nurse 24/7
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@yeet said:
Zanfer said:@yeet said:
powerbats said:
@yeet said: people do well with freddy but i don't see anyone calling him powerful. True but those that get know how to get the most out of him do so and the same for Rin. The Nurse is a perfect example of those that will learn the cahmp to the fullest will get the most out of them. IF you're not willing to work hard to maximize and learn them to the fullest they'll always be trash. what's the point in learning her when you could learn nurse and get 500x the success.
not to mentjon how they killed any semblance of mindgames or stealth with the changes out of the PTB, her power is low tier now, anecdotal evidence of people sometimes doing well against poor survivors means very little.
Because some people want more variety in a game besides playing nurse 24/7
theres more killers that are much better than spirit than just nurse
Was not referring to spirit specifically. Was talking about all killers, but ok
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@powerbats said:
@yeet said:
people do well with freddy but i don't see anyone calling him powerful.
True but those that get know how to get the most out of him do so and the same for Rin. The Nurse is a perfect example of those that will learn the cahmp to the fullest will get the most out of them. IF you're not willing to work hard to maximize and learn them to the fullest they'll always be trash.
you know every killer has a limit to their power and their counters define their viability. Its not healthy when a killer like Freddy best build is the one that barely ever uses his power. The only advantage you should capitalize on with Freddy is his stealth run dream transition reduction and don't bother with any of the other add ons their all trash in high ranks. Nurse on the other hand has multiple blink builds and distance builds all which are incredibly powerful she also ignores what is for the most part been the hardest mechanic to balance in the game. Pallets and vaults. Nurse is usually always consistent because its all down to reads and muscle memory. No map abuses or pallets or lack there of. But back to my point some killers have to many limitations and not enough complexity or reliability to be good. The pigs is insanely good with combat straps and video tape but the rest of her add ons cater to the RBTs which are rng and incredibly inefficient.
You cant sit their and pretend theirs some super secret powerful way to make a killer like Freddy good because he as a killer is fundamentally flawed and badly designed.
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@Zarathos said:
@powerbats said:
@yeet said:
people do well with freddy but i don't see anyone calling him powerful.
True but those that get know how to get the most out of him do so and the same for Rin. The Nurse is a perfect example of those that will learn the cahmp to the fullest will get the most out of them. IF you're not willing to work hard to maximize and learn them to the fullest they'll always be trash.
you know every killer has a limit to their power and their counters define their viability. Its not healthy when a killer like Freddy best build is the one that barely ever uses his power. The only advantage you should capitalize on with Freddy is his stealth run dream transition reduction and don't bother with any of the other add ons their all trash in high ranks. Nurse on the other hand has multiple blink builds and distance builds all which are incredibly powerful she also ignores what is for the most part been the hardest mechanic to balance in the game. Pallets and vaults. Nurse is usually always consistent because its all down to reads and muscle memory. No map abuses or pallets or lack there of. But back to my point some killers have to many limitations and not enough complexity or reliability to be good. The pigs is insanely good with combat straps and video tape but the rest of her add ons cater to the RBTs which are rng and incredibly inefficient.
You cant sit their and pretend theirs some super secret powerful way to make a killer like Freddy good because he as a killer is fundamentally flawed and badly designed.
Yet people run some of his builds at rank 1 or go perkless and do just fine. Most killers in fact don't run solely their own perks so lets not pretend that's a valid argument either.
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Well i dont dodge hardcore survivour players or swf groups. Their are some trash rank 1 players but I dont want a coin flip to decide if I'm going to be a viable killer at rank 1. Many content creators go through a lot of ######### games at rank 1 to find a game where their cool build worked. Thats why perkless freddy won games occur at rank 1 because the stars alligned and you got the trash rank one players.powerbats said:@Zarathos said:
@powerbats said:
@yeet said:
people do well with freddy but i don't see anyone calling him powerful.
True but those that get know how to get the most out of him do so and the same for Rin. The Nurse is a perfect example of those that will learn the cahmp to the fullest will get the most out of them. IF you're not willing to work hard to maximize and learn them to the fullest they'll always be trash.
you know every killer has a limit to their power and their counters define their viability. Its not healthy when a killer like Freddy best build is the one that barely ever uses his power. The only advantage you should capitalize on with Freddy is his stealth run dream transition reduction and don't bother with any of the other add ons their all trash in high ranks. Nurse on the other hand has multiple blink builds and distance builds all which are incredibly powerful she also ignores what is for the most part been the hardest mechanic to balance in the game. Pallets and vaults. Nurse is usually always consistent because its all down to reads and muscle memory. No map abuses or pallets or lack there of. But back to my point some killers have to many limitations and not enough complexity or reliability to be good. The pigs is insanely good with combat straps and video tape but the rest of her add ons cater to the RBTs which are rng and incredibly inefficient.
You cant sit their and pretend theirs some super secret powerful way to make a killer like Freddy good because he as a killer is fundamentally flawed and badly designed.
Yet people run some of his builds at rank 1 or go perkless and do just fine. Most killers in fact don't run solely their own perks so lets not pretend that's a valid argument either.
Im all about getting consistent victories or at least close games if the build only ever pops off once in 10 games then its a bad build. Despite my constant experementation their is only one good freddy build and one good pig build, dream transition reduction and dash attack builds. This makes the remaining add ons useless and a waste of my bp. I want consistency in my killers espicially at rank 1 when im waiting 5 to 10 mins for a lobby.0 -
Back on topic rin is almost perfect shes just due one or two more changes. First faster default cooldown as a base as it is mandatory to run cooldown on rin and limits her add on options her cooldown addons can be nerfed to compensate for this.
Next make her whoosh noise non directional. This is a problem for the future when survivours start picking up on how to use this against her it gives away to much information. Maintain the whoosh noise to let them know your phasing but do not make it directional.
Finally her husk needs to have a terror radius of at least 16 not 8 meters as again this give to much infromation away currently. Most of these ideas were proposed by bricky and after throughly testing the spirit I 100% agree with them.0 -
@powerbats said:
@yeet said:
people do well with freddy but i don't see anyone calling him powerful.
True but those that get know how to get the most out of him do so and the same for Rin. The Nurse is a perfect example of those that will learn the cahmp to the fullest will get the most out of them. IF you're not willing to work hard to maximize and learn them to the fullest they'll always be trash.
Dude her skillcap isn't high, she doesn't require you to multitask. Shes about as high IQ as leather face. You chase people thats it, there's no longer an element of surprise from the PTB, and mind games are just suddenly reversing the trajectory of a loop to close the gap on a survivor faster, every killer mind games and at 115% move speed compared to her 110% its way easier. Thats not a skill block, you're just being restricted by her base kit.
She's not nurse, you don't need to think in your head and calculate the distance between you and a survivor while knowing precisely when to release the charge. She's not billy, you're not reeling your chase backwards just to charge a chainsaw while watching the meter so it doesn't overflow while at the same time watching the survivor and calculating exactly when to press over and land the hit. She's not pig, you're not predicting where people go with traps, or estimating time in your head until you need to refocus that person or evaluating. And she's not trapper or hag, where full knowledge of map layouts and predictable chase locations are key to the use of your powers.
She's BASIC. You lunge you chop ######### thats it. All the other mechanics they went on about with the invisibility and the phasing you can't see and have no control over as a killer because frankly, you're not really invisible, you're blind, and your power cooldown is so long you run into moments where a single pallet drop after the initial chase may ruin your shot to drop chase back track and guard a gen just to return to the chase later, AKA 200IQ nurse plays.
Mobility, Map pressure, Forced concentration(ala actual stealth killers forcing survivors to play different because they lose the ability to track the killer changing the decisions a survivor would normally make), and gen/progress control (ala RBT's doc shocks), Sudden death instant down killers that make getting into chases to begin with insanely risky, and projectile killers who can manipulate the direction of a survivor and remove safety from a distance.
^ Her kit as it stands currently with the loud ass haunt noises, forces her into the mobility category, BUT, at the lowest end of any killer with mobility due to her 110% structure and power cooldown. Which means she's not only bottom end of the mobility category among nurse and billy, but doesn't show up at all in the other 5 categories. Every killer in this game excels aka masters at 1 of those categories, or does decently well in 2. She does poorly in mobility and beyond bad at stealth so just like I mentioned before, where is her niche?
Going 5/5 being maximum.
Nurse 5/5 mobility, 0 on all other categories.
Billy 3/5 mobility, 2/5 on sudden death/instant downs.
Myers 4/5 on sudden death the dudes add ons let you mori people. And 1/5 on stealth.
Hillbilly 5/5 on sudden death (only due to aoe since he can multi down)
Doc 5/5 on Gen control and progress
Pig 3/5 on gen control, and 2/5 on stealth
Clown 4/5 on projectiles 1/5 mobility if you wanna factor in he's the only killer capable of slowing people.
Huntress 5/5 on projectiles
Hag 5/5 on map pressure and trapping
Trapper 4/5 on map pressure and trapping
Freddy 4/5 on stealth
Wraith 5/5 on stealth
Spirit 3/5 on mobility and 0/5 on stealth because you're not really stealth.....You need to reach a 4 total to even be considered viable imo and she doesn't do that atm.
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@PigMainBigBrain said:
@powerbats said:
@yeet said:
people do well with freddy but i don't see anyone calling him powerful.
True but those that get know how to get the most out of him do so and the same for Rin. The Nurse is a perfect example of those that will learn the cahmp to the fullest will get the most out of them. IF you're not willing to work hard to maximize and learn them to the fullest they'll always be trash.
Dude her skillcap isn't high, she doesn't require you to multitask. Shes about as high IQ as leather face. You chase people thats it, there's no longer an element of surprise from the PTB, and mind games are just suddenly reversing the trajectory of a loop to close the gap on a survivor faster, every killer mind games and at 115% move speed compared to her 110% its way easier. Thats not a skill block, you're just being restricted by her base kit.
She's not nurse, you don't need to think in your head and calculate the distance between you and a survivor while knowing precisely when to release the charge. She's not billy, you're not reeling your chase backwards just to charge a chainsaw while watching the meter so it doesn't overflow while at the same time watching the survivor and calculating exactly when to press over and land the hit. She's not pig, you're not predicting where people go with traps, or estimating time in your head until you need to refocus that person or evaluating. And she's not trapper or hag, where full knowledge of map layouts and predictable chase locations are key to the use of your powers.
She's BASIC. You lunge you chop ######### thats it. All the other mechanics they went on about with the invisibility and the phasing you can't see and have no control over as a killer because frankly, you're not really invisible, you're blind, and your power cooldown is so long you run into moments where a single pallet drop after the initial chase may ruin your shot to drop chase back track and guard a gen just to return to the chase later, AKA 200IQ nurse plays.
Mobility, Map pressure, Forced concentration(ala actual stealth killers forcing survivors to play different because they lose the ability to track the killer changing the decisions a survivor would normally make), and gen/progress control (ala RBT's doc shocks), Sudden death instant down killers that make getting into chases to begin with insanely risky, and projectile killers who can manipulate the direction of a survivor and remove safety from a distance.
^ Her kit as it stands currently with the loud ass haunt noises, forces her into the mobility category, BUT, at the lowest end of any killer with mobility due to her 110% structure and power cooldown. Which means she's not only bottom end of the mobility category among nurse and billy, but doesn't show up at all in the other 5 categories. Every killer in this game excels aka masters at 1 of those categories, or does decently well in 2. She does poorly in mobility and beyond bad at stealth so just like I mentioned before, where is her niche?
Going 5/5 being maximum.
Nurse 5/5 mobility, 0 on all other categories.
Billy 3/5 mobility, 2/5 on sudden death/instant downs.
Myers 4/5 on sudden death the dudes add ons let you mori people. And 1/5 on stealth.
Hillbilly 5/5 on sudden death (only due to aoe since he can multi down)
Doc 5/5 on Gen control and progress
Pig 3/5 on gen control, and 2/5 on stealth
Clown 4/5 on projectiles 1/5 mobility if you wanna factor in he's the only killer capable of slowing people.
Huntress 5/5 on projectiles
Hag 5/5 on map pressure and trapping
Trapper 4/5 on map pressure and trapping
Freddy 4/5 on stealth
Wraith 5/5 on stealth
Spirit 3/5 on mobility and 0/5 on stealth because you're not really stealth.....You need to reach a 4 total to even be considered viable imo and she doesn't do that atm.
#########? You have Billy and Hillbilly?
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The Spirit (like every killer in the game except for the top two) suffers from being a horror character in an action game. You're not really supposed to win or make progress with her, merely inconvenience the survivors with your slightly annoying and ineffectual power. The developers have to make sure that new killers are hot garbage on release for a minimum of 2 years before a buff/rework.
There's no way you can release this many underwhelming killers in a row by accident. It's intentional.
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Well not really as the clown is good but he isn't moving at sonic billy speed. I feel that for "stealth" invisible characters they have freddy reviews fresh in their minds.BadMrFrosty said:The Spirit (like every killer in the game except for the top two) suffers from being a horror character in an action game. You're not really supposed to win or make progress with her, merely inconvenience the survivors with your slightly annoying and ineffectual power. The developers have to make sure that new killers are hot garbage on release for a minimum of 2 years before a buff/rework.
There's no way you can release this many underwhelming killers in a row by accident. It's intentional.
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Mind games exist in tight areas where she can fake the haunting power use or barely tap it, but in general loops it doesn't appear as with noise indicators and fathers glasses in an open area she can secure a second follow up hit to put survivors into the dying state but she relies on survivors being injured to see their blood for tracking or have super loud injury noises because if you guess wrong and drained some of your haunting for an attack miss, you get looped till daylight. The clown had a great ptb, two parts that showed changes. Spirit, people couldn't even test what went live.PigMainBigBrain said:@powerbats said:
@yeet said:
people do well with freddy but i don't see anyone calling him powerful.
True but those that get know how to get the most out of him do so and the same for Rin. The Nurse is a perfect example of those that will learn the cahmp to the fullest will get the most out of them. IF you're not willing to work hard to maximize and learn them to the fullest they'll always be trash.
Dude her skillcap isn't high, she doesn't require you to multitask. Shes about as high IQ as leather face. You chase people thats it, there's no longer an element of surprise from the PTB, and mind games are just suddenly reversing the trajectory of a loop to close the gap on a survivor faster, every killer mind games and at 115% move speed compared to her 110% its way easier. Thats not a skill block, you're just being restricted by her base kit.
She's not nurse, you don't need to think in your head and calculate the distance between you and a survivor while knowing precisely when to release the charge. She's not billy, you're not reeling your chase backwards just to charge a chainsaw while watching the meter so it doesn't overflow while at the same time watching the survivor and calculating exactly when to press over and land the hit. She's not pig, you're not predicting where people go with traps, or estimating time in your head until you need to refocus that person or evaluating. And she's not trapper or hag, where full knowledge of map layouts and predictable chase locations are key to the use of your powers.
She's BASIC. You lunge you chop ######### thats it. All the other mechanics they went on about with the invisibility and the phasing you can't see and have no control over as a killer because frankly, you're not really invisible, you're blind, and your power cooldown is so long you run into moments where a single pallet drop after the initial chase may ruin your shot to drop chase back track and guard a gen just to return to the chase later, AKA 200IQ nurse plays.
Mobility, Map pressure, Forced concentration(ala actual stealth killers forcing survivors to play different because they lose the ability to track the killer changing the decisions a survivor would normally make), and gen/progress control (ala RBT's doc shocks), Sudden death instant down killers that make getting into chases to begin with insanely risky, and projectile killers who can manipulate the direction of a survivor and remove safety from a distance.
^ Her kit as it stands currently with the loud ass haunt noises, forces her into the mobility category, BUT, at the lowest end of any killer with mobility due to her 110% structure and power cooldown. Which means she's not only bottom end of the mobility category among nurse and billy, but doesn't show up at all in the other 5 categories. Every killer in this game excels aka masters at 1 of those categories, or does decently well in 2. She does poorly in mobility and beyond bad at stealth so just like I mentioned before, where is her niche?
Going 5/5 being maximum.
Nurse 5/5 mobility, 0 on all other categories.
Billy 3/5 mobility, 2/5 on sudden death/instant downs.
Myers 4/5 on sudden death the dudes add ons let you mori people. And 1/5 on stealth.
Hillbilly 5/5 on sudden death (only due to aoe since he can multi down)
Doc 5/5 on Gen control and progress
Pig 3/5 on gen control, and 2/5 on stealth
Clown 4/5 on projectiles 1/5 mobility if you wanna factor in he's the only killer capable of slowing people.
Huntress 5/5 on projectiles
Hag 5/5 on map pressure and trapping
Trapper 4/5 on map pressure and trapping
Freddy 4/5 on stealth
Wraith 5/5 on stealth
Spirit 3/5 on mobility and 0/5 on stealth because you're not really stealth.....You need to reach a 4 total to even be considered viable imo and she doesn't do that atm.
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@Dabrownman1812 said:
PigMainBigBrain said:@powerbats said:
@yeet said:
people do well with freddy but i don't see anyone calling him powerful.
True but those that get know how to get the most out of him do so and the same for Rin. The Nurse is a perfect example of those that will learn the cahmp to the fullest will get the most out of them. IF you're not willing to work hard to maximize and learn them to the fullest they'll always be trash.
Dude her skillcap isn't high, she doesn't require you to multitask. Shes about as high IQ as leather face. You chase people thats it, there's no longer an element of surprise from the PTB, and mind games are just suddenly reversing the trajectory of a loop to close the gap on a survivor faster, every killer mind games and at 115% move speed compared to her 110% its way easier. Thats not a skill block, you're just being restricted by her base kit.
She's not nurse, you don't need to think in your head and calculate the distance between you and a survivor while knowing precisely when to release the charge. She's not billy, you're not reeling your chase backwards just to charge a chainsaw while watching the meter so it doesn't overflow while at the same time watching the survivor and calculating exactly when to press over and land the hit. She's not pig, you're not predicting where people go with traps, or estimating time in your head until you need to refocus that person or evaluating. And she's not trapper or hag, where full knowledge of map layouts and predictable chase locations are key to the use of your powers.
She's BASIC. You lunge you chop ######### thats it. All the other mechanics they went on about with the invisibility and the phasing you can't see and have no control over as a killer because frankly, you're not really invisible, you're blind, and your power cooldown is so long you run into moments where a single pallet drop after the initial chase may ruin your shot to drop chase back track and guard a gen just to return to the chase later, AKA 200IQ nurse plays.
Mobility, Map pressure, Forced concentration(ala actual stealth killers forcing survivors to play different because they lose the ability to track the killer changing the decisions a survivor would normally make), and gen/progress control (ala RBT's doc shocks), Sudden death instant down killers that make getting into chases to begin with insanely risky, and projectile killers who can manipulate the direction of a survivor and remove safety from a distance.
^ Her kit as it stands currently with the loud ass haunt noises, forces her into the mobility category, BUT, at the lowest end of any killer with mobility due to her 110% structure and power cooldown. Which means she's not only bottom end of the mobility category among nurse and billy, but doesn't show up at all in the other 5 categories. Every killer in this game excels aka masters at 1 of those categories, or does decently well in 2. She does poorly in mobility and beyond bad at stealth so just like I mentioned before, where is her niche?
Going 5/5 being maximum.
Nurse 5/5 mobility, 0 on all other categories.
Billy 3/5 mobility, 2/5 on sudden death/instant downs.
Myers 4/5 on sudden death the dudes add ons let you mori people. And 1/5 on stealth.
Hillbilly 5/5 on sudden death (only due to aoe since he can multi down)
Doc 5/5 on Gen control and progress
Pig 3/5 on gen control, and 2/5 on stealth
Clown 4/5 on projectiles 1/5 mobility if you wanna factor in he's the only killer capable of slowing people.
Huntress 5/5 on projectiles
Hag 5/5 on map pressure and trapping
Trapper 4/5 on map pressure and trapping
Freddy 4/5 on stealth
Wraith 5/5 on stealth
Spirit 3/5 on mobility and 0/5 on stealth because you're not really stealth.....
You need to reach a 4 total to even be considered viable imo and she doesn't do that atm.
Mind games exist in tight areas where she can fake the haunting power use or barely tap it, but in general loops it doesn't appear as with noise indicators and fathers glasses in an open area she can secure a second follow up hit to put survivors into the dying state but she relies on survivors being injured to see their blood for tracking or have super loud injury noises because if you guess wrong and drained some of your haunting for an attack miss, you get looped till daylight. The clown had a great ptb, two parts that showed changes. Spirit, people couldn't even test what went live.
Incorrect, now that they gave indications attentive survivors can always tell when she is and isn't using her power, making her mindgames almost non existent
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What indications? There isn't any as of now that always tell I believe, could be wrong. I think her masking still needs work right? And her noise is too loudyeet said:@Dabrownman1812 said:
PigMainBigBrain said:@powerbats said:
@yeet said:
people do well with freddy but i don't see anyone calling him powerful.
True but those that get know how to get the most out of him do so and the same for Rin. The Nurse is a perfect example of those that will learn the cahmp to the fullest will get the most out of them. IF you're not willing to work hard to maximize and learn them to the fullest they'll always be trash.
Dude her skillcap isn't high, she doesn't require you to multitask. Shes about as high IQ as leather face. You chase people thats it, there's no longer an element of surprise from the PTB, and mind games are just suddenly reversing the trajectory of a loop to close the gap on a survivor faster, every killer mind games and at 115% move speed compared to her 110% its way easier. Thats not a skill block, you're just being restricted by her base kit.
She's not nurse, you don't need to think in your head and calculate the distance between you and a survivor while knowing precisely when to release the charge. She's not billy, you're not reeling your chase backwards just to charge a chainsaw while watching the meter so it doesn't overflow while at the same time watching the survivor and calculating exactly when to press over and land the hit. She's not pig, you're not predicting where people go with traps, or estimating time in your head until you need to refocus that person or evaluating. And she's not trapper or hag, where full knowledge of map layouts and predictable chase locations are key to the use of your powers.
She's BASIC. You lunge you chop ######### thats it. All the other mechanics they went on about with the invisibility and the phasing you can't see and have no control over as a killer because frankly, you're not really invisible, you're blind, and your power cooldown is so long you run into moments where a single pallet drop after the initial chase may ruin your shot to drop chase back track and guard a gen just to return to the chase later, AKA 200IQ nurse plays.
Mobility, Map pressure, Forced concentration(ala actual stealth killers forcing survivors to play different because they lose the ability to track the killer changing the decisions a survivor would normally make), and gen/progress control (ala RBT's doc shocks), Sudden death instant down killers that make getting into chases to begin with insanely risky, and projectile killers who can manipulate the direction of a survivor and remove safety from a distance.
^ Her kit as it stands currently with the loud ass haunt noises, forces her into the mobility category, BUT, at the lowest end of any killer with mobility due to her 110% structure and power cooldown. Which means she's not only bottom end of the mobility category among nurse and billy, but doesn't show up at all in the other 5 categories. Every killer in this game excels aka masters at 1 of those categories, or does decently well in 2. She does poorly in mobility and beyond bad at stealth so just like I mentioned before, where is her niche?
Going 5/5 being maximum.
Nurse 5/5 mobility, 0 on all other categories.
Billy 3/5 mobility, 2/5 on sudden death/instant downs.
Myers 4/5 on sudden death the dudes add ons let you mori people. And 1/5 on stealth.
Hillbilly 5/5 on sudden death (only due to aoe since he can multi down)
Doc 5/5 on Gen control and progress
Pig 3/5 on gen control, and 2/5 on stealth
Clown 4/5 on projectiles 1/5 mobility if you wanna factor in he's the only killer capable of slowing people.
Huntress 5/5 on projectiles
Hag 5/5 on map pressure and trapping
Trapper 4/5 on map pressure and trapping
Freddy 4/5 on stealth
Wraith 5/5 on stealth
Spirit 3/5 on mobility and 0/5 on stealth because you're not really stealth.....
You need to reach a 4 total to even be considered viable imo and she doesn't do that atm.
Mind games exist in tight areas where she can fake the haunting power use or barely tap it, but in general loops it doesn't appear as with noise indicators and fathers glasses in an open area she can secure a second follow up hit to put survivors into the dying state but she relies on survivors being injured to see their blood for tracking or have super loud injury noises because if you guess wrong and drained some of your haunting for an attack miss, you get looped till daylight. The clown had a great ptb, two parts that showed changes. Spirit, people couldn't even test what went live.
Incorrect, now that they gave indications attentive survivors can always tell when she is and isn't using her power, making her mindgames almost non existent
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Why the heck is the excuse when a killer does well like perkless Freddy always well they were up against trash survivors. Yet when a perkless Nurse does it it's because the killer had skill, you killer mains that can't maximize a killer because it isn't Billy/Nurse tier out of the gate are hilarious.
When other killers do well with a killer you suck with and yes that's harsh but it's the reality that's obvious here there's always an excuse used. I suck with Nurse because she's not my cup of tea so to speak and i don't play her enough.
I prefer Trapper, Pig, Myers and now Rin while others prefer a different 4-5 toons to play and suck on others as well.
Oh and they already added a small buff in for Rin and for all the ones saying she has no mind game potential it's true she doesn't when you don't know how to play her.
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Did you really try to compare nurse and freddy? Freddy main here saying you absolutely cannot do that lol. The nurse ignores survivor defenses. Freddy doesn't, she's a class of her own. Also all the killers you named can perkless and add on less have something for the chase or loops, freddy does not and freddy has to wait 7 seconds at base to hit players. Yes, those survivors had to be absolutely trash to get swept by perkless freddy. Trash or making really trash choices. The nurse has undeniably, good or not with her, the highest potential due to her power.powerbats said:Why the heck is the excuse when a killer does well like perkless Freddy always well they were up against trash survivors. Yet when a perkless Nurse does it it's because the killer had skill, you killer mains that can't maximize a killer because it isn't Billy/Nurse tier out of the gate are hilarious.
When other killers do well with a killer you suck with and yes that's harsh but it's the reality that's obvious here there's always an excuse used. I suck with Nurse because she's not my cup of tea so to speak and i don't play her enough.
I prefer Trapper, Pig, Myers and now Rin while others prefer a different 4-5 toons to play and suck on others as well.
Oh and they already added a small buff in for Rin and for all the ones saying she has no mind game potential it's true she doesn't when you don't know how to play her.
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@powerbats said:
Hmmn I wonder why so many rank 1 killers are playing her and getting 3-4k constantly right now if she's so trashy. Monto and Angry Pug the latter whos been on both sides of my matches has played her under a different name and wrecked with her.Wrecked with her at Rank 1 despite the fact that Pug has said several times that Rank 1 means nothing considering how easy it is to Rank up. Which is very true.
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@Wraff said:
@powerbats said:
Hmmn I wonder why so many rank 1 killers are playing her and getting 3-4k constantly right now if she's so trashy. Monto and Angry Pug the latter whos been on both sides of my matches has played her under a different name and wrecked with her.Wrecked with her at Rank 1 despite the fact that Pug has said several times that Rank 1 means nothing considering how easy it is to Rank up. Which is very true.
Yet killers always say get to rank 1 then talk, then turn around with the excuse you just used. They use Marth88 as an example when it benefits them.
Then turn around and say rank means nothing or that he's just a streamer when it doesn't.
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@yeet said:
@Dabrownman1812 said:
PigMainBigBrain said:@powerbats said:
@yeet said:
people do well with freddy but i don't see anyone calling him powerful.
True but those that get know how to get the most out of him do so and the same for Rin. The Nurse is a perfect example of those that will learn the cahmp to the fullest will get the most out of them. IF you're not willing to work hard to maximize and learn them to the fullest they'll always be trash.
Dude her skillcap isn't high, she doesn't require you to multitask. Shes about as high IQ as leather face. You chase people thats it, there's no longer an element of surprise from the PTB, and mind games are just suddenly reversing the trajectory of a loop to close the gap on a survivor faster, every killer mind games and at 115% move speed compared to her 110% its way easier. Thats not a skill block, you're just being restricted by her base kit.
She's not nurse, you don't need to think in your head and calculate the distance between you and a survivor while knowing precisely when to release the charge. She's not billy, you're not reeling your chase backwards just to charge a chainsaw while watching the meter so it doesn't overflow while at the same time watching the survivor and calculating exactly when to press over and land the hit. She's not pig, you're not predicting where people go with traps, or estimating time in your head until you need to refocus that person or evaluating. And she's not trapper or hag, where full knowledge of map layouts and predictable chase locations are key to the use of your powers.
She's BASIC. You lunge you chop ######### thats it. All the other mechanics they went on about with the invisibility and the phasing you can't see and have no control over as a killer because frankly, you're not really invisible, you're blind, and your power cooldown is so long you run into moments where a single pallet drop after the initial chase may ruin your shot to drop chase back track and guard a gen just to return to the chase later, AKA 200IQ nurse plays.
Mobility, Map pressure, Forced concentration(ala actual stealth killers forcing survivors to play different because they lose the ability to track the killer changing the decisions a survivor would normally make), and gen/progress control (ala RBT's doc shocks), Sudden death instant down killers that make getting into chases to begin with insanely risky, and projectile killers who can manipulate the direction of a survivor and remove safety from a distance.
^ Her kit as it stands currently with the loud ass haunt noises, forces her into the mobility category, BUT, at the lowest end of any killer with mobility due to her 110% structure and power cooldown. Which means she's not only bottom end of the mobility category among nurse and billy, but doesn't show up at all in the other 5 categories. Every killer in this game excels aka masters at 1 of those categories, or does decently well in 2. She does poorly in mobility and beyond bad at stealth so just like I mentioned before, where is her niche?
Going 5/5 being maximum.
Nurse 5/5 mobility, 0 on all other categories.
Billy 3/5 mobility, 2/5 on sudden death/instant downs.
Myers 4/5 on sudden death the dudes add ons let you mori people. And 1/5 on stealth.
Hillbilly 5/5 on sudden death (only due to aoe since he can multi down)
Doc 5/5 on Gen control and progress
Pig 3/5 on gen control, and 2/5 on stealth
Clown 4/5 on projectiles 1/5 mobility if you wanna factor in he's the only killer capable of slowing people.
Huntress 5/5 on projectiles
Hag 5/5 on map pressure and trapping
Trapper 4/5 on map pressure and trapping
Freddy 4/5 on stealth
Wraith 5/5 on stealth
Spirit 3/5 on mobility and 0/5 on stealth because you're not really stealth.....
You need to reach a 4 total to even be considered viable imo and she doesn't do that atm.
Mind games exist in tight areas where she can fake the haunting power use or barely tap it, but in general loops it doesn't appear as with noise indicators and fathers glasses in an open area she can secure a second follow up hit to put survivors into the dying state but she relies on survivors being injured to see their blood for tracking or have super loud injury noises because if you guess wrong and drained some of your haunting for an attack miss, you get looped till daylight. The clown had a great ptb, two parts that showed changes. Spirit, people couldn't even test what went live.
Incorrect, now that they gave indications attentive survivors can always tell when she is and isn't using her power, making her mindgames almost non existent
Thats part of a sound issue with her haunt apparently? I have to re-rate her because I made that post before they changed the cooldown but, I have to say it would be either 1 or the other, either her cooldown got lower or they bumped her base speed. At 15 seconds base she feels a lot better, so I would bump her mobility up to a 4/5 and hopefully after they fix the sound issues during haunt a 1/5 on stealth, which would put her in perfect alignment.
Which if you look at the way I have the numbers set up above, the only 2 killers without 5/5 are freddy and trapper. Trapper being extremely basic, and Freddy being stealthy but pretty much needing a rework, I have no idea and won't even speculate on what freddy needs, but with these changes the spirit has so far with sound tweaks coming I think itll put her in line with the rest of the killers.1 -
@Dabrownman1812 said:
What indications? There isn't any as of now that always tell I believe, could be wrong. I think her masking still needs work right? And her noise is too loud
I didn't see anything in the patch notes about sound changes, so I'll assume they're still janky. I've watched a few survivor games and seen just how loud the noise was even while within her terror radius while she wasn't chasing the person listening.
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Yeh, they said the sound thing was complicated n will be in midchapter patch. But still, the sound itself outside of the radius is so loud. Can't sneak in on someone working on a gen if you're louder than a gen, even the pig isn't loud like that when standing from crouch.PigMainBigBrain said:@Dabrownman1812 said:
What indications? There isn't any as of now that always tell I believe, could be wrong. I think her masking still needs work right? And her noise is too loud
I didn't see anything in the patch notes about sound changes, so I'll assume they're still janky. I've watched a few survivor games and seen just how loud the noise was even while within her terror radius while she wasn't chasing the person listening.
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@Dabrownman1812 said:
yeet said:@Dabrownman1812 said:
PigMainBigBrain said:
@powerbats said: @yeet said: people do well with freddy but i don't see anyone calling him powerful. True but those that get know how to get the most out of him do so and the same for Rin. The Nurse is a perfect example of those that will learn the cahmp to the fullest will get the most out of them. IF you're not willing to work hard to maximize and learn them to the fullest they'll always be trash. Dude her skillcap isn't high, she doesn't require you to multitask. Shes about as high IQ as leather face. You chase people thats it, there's no longer an element of surprise from the PTB, and mind games are just suddenly reversing the trajectory of a loop to close the gap on a survivor faster, every killer mind games and at 115% move speed compared to her 110% its way easier. Thats not a skill block, you're just being restricted by her base kit. She's not nurse, you don't need to think in your head and calculate the distance between you and a survivor while knowing precisely when to release the charge. She's not billy, you're not reeling your chase backwards just to charge a chainsaw while watching the meter so it doesn't overflow while at the same time watching the survivor and calculating exactly when to press over and land the hit. She's not pig, you're not predicting where people go with traps, or estimating time in your head until you need to refocus that person or evaluating. And she's not trapper or hag, where full knowledge of map layouts and predictable chase locations are key to the use of your powers. She's BASIC. You lunge you chop ######### thats it. All the other mechanics they went on about with the invisibility and the phasing you can't see and have no control over as a killer because frankly, you're not really invisible, you're blind, and your power cooldown is so long you run into moments where a single pallet drop after the initial chase may ruin your shot to drop chase back track and guard a gen just to return to the chase later, AKA 200IQ nurse plays. Mobility, Map pressure, Forced concentration(ala actual stealth killers forcing survivors to play different because they lose the ability to track the killer changing the decisions a survivor would normally make), and gen/progress control (ala RBT's doc shocks), Sudden death instant down killers that make getting into chases to begin with insanely risky, and projectile killers who can manipulate the direction of a survivor and remove safety from a distance. ^ Her kit as it stands currently with the loud ass haunt noises, forces her into the mobility category, BUT, at the lowest end of any killer with mobility due to her 110% structure and power cooldown. Which means she's not only bottom end of the mobility category among nurse and billy, but doesn't show up at all in the other 5 categories. Every killer in this game excels aka masters at 1 of those categories, or does decently well in 2. She does poorly in mobility and beyond bad at stealth so just like I mentioned before, where is her niche? Going 5/5 being maximum. Nurse 5/5 mobility, 0 on all other categories. Billy 3/5 mobility, 2/5 on sudden death/instant downs. Myers 4/5 on sudden death the dudes add ons let you mori people. And 1/5 on stealth. Hillbilly 5/5 on sudden death (only due to aoe since he can multi down) Doc 5/5 on Gen control and progress Pig 3/5 on gen control, and 2/5 on stealth Clown 4/5 on projectiles 1/5 mobility if you wanna factor in he's the only killer capable of slowing people. Huntress 5/5 on projectiles Hag 5/5 on map pressure and trapping Trapper 4/5 on map pressure and trapping Freddy 4/5 on stealth Wraith 5/5 on stealth Spirit 3/5 on mobility and 0/5 on stealth because you're not really stealth..... You need to reach a 4 total to even be considered viable imo and she doesn't do that atm.
Mind games exist in tight areas where she can fake the haunting power use or barely tap it, but in general loops it doesn't appear as with noise indicators and fathers glasses in an open area she can secure a second follow up hit to put survivors into the dying state but she relies on survivors being injured to see their blood for tracking or have super loud injury noises because if you guess wrong and drained some of your haunting for an attack miss, you get looped till daylight. The clown had a great ptb, two parts that showed changes. Spirit, people couldn't even test what went live.
Incorrect, now that they gave indications attentive survivors can always tell when she is and isn't using her power, making her mindgames almost non existent
What indications? There isn't any as of now that always tell I believe, could be wrong. I think her masking still needs work right? And her noise is too loud
white spots appear on the husk when she enters the haunting, letting the survivor know when she is doing it
along with the loud noise she makes indicating her position, her power is effectively a short speed boost that makes her blind on a significant cool down (less so now after the patch)0 -
@yeet said:
What indications? There isn't any as of now that always tell I believe, could be wrong. I think her masking still needs work right? And her noise is too loud
white spots appear on the husk when she enters the haunting, letting the survivor know when she is doing it
along with the loud noise she makes indicating her position, her power is effectively a short speed boost that makes her blind on a significant cool down (less so now after the patch)Yeah the White spots need to disappear for when she's close enough to see her since that kinda hurts her some. But doing the charge when you know someones close and standing still is funny as heck.
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Rank 4 killer. 1st time using her I dont see the problem.1
