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Time to fix self care, for real this time
This whole I don't need no item or team perk needs to die and die hard. I suggest we change it to say reduce the rate of med kits you use on your self by 50/75/100% So it gets a kinda buff but you require and item to use it giving the killer some means to counter it
Comments
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@FoxWolfFrostFire said:
This whole I don't need no item or team perk needs to die and die hard. I suggest we change it to say reduce the rate of med kits you use on your self by 50/75/100% So it gets a kinda buff but you require and item to use it giving the killer some means to counter itSo just make it better botany knowledge...? That’s not a good idea really. In fact statically that perk barely effects survival, only effecting it mainly on solo...which only survives 30% of the time, thus needs to be stronger.
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Devs are already considering making the healing to reset if you do not fully heal with self-care, so you cannot just cancel it and finish the heal somewhere else if the killer interrupts you, and you have to waste some extra time.
Tho I think that, considering the current nerfs, devs do not want to stack the odds against the survivors and will spread it over several patches.
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@Runiver said:
Devs are already considering making the healing to reset if you do not fully heal with self-care, so you cannot just cancel it and finish the heal somewhere else if the killer interrupts you, and you have to waste some extra time.Tho I think that, considering the current nerfs, devs do not want to stack the odds against the survivors and will spread it over several patches.
We needs Survivors to have the odds against them. I mean that is mainly the point of the game lol.
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@FoxWolfFrostFire said:
@Runiver said:
Devs are already considering making the healing to reset if you do not fully heal with self-care, so you cannot just cancel it and finish the heal somewhere else if the killer interrupts you, and you have to waste some extra time.Tho I think that, considering the current nerfs, devs do not want to stack the odds against the survivors and will spread it over several patches.
We needs Survivors to have the odds against them. I mean that is mainly the point of the game lol.
Welp, devs are kinda scared of pitchforks if they simply go all apeshit on survivor's nerfs, even if some of them are possibly deserved for a while now.
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@Runiver said:
@FoxWolfFrostFire said:
@Runiver said:
Devs are already considering making the healing to reset if you do not fully heal with self-care, so you cannot just cancel it and finish the heal somewhere else if the killer interrupts you, and you have to waste some extra time.Tho I think that, considering the current nerfs, devs do not want to stack the odds against the survivors and will spread it over several patches.
We needs Survivors to have the odds against them. I mean that is mainly the point of the game lol.
Welp, devs are kinda scared of pitchforks if they simply go all apeshit on survivor's nerfs, even if some of them are possibly deserved for a while now.
I wouldn't be so ready to nerf survivors if they would just buff killers lol.
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@Jack11803 said:
@FoxWolfFrostFire said:
This whole I don't need no item or team perk needs to die and die hard. I suggest we change it to say reduce the rate of med kits you use on your self by 50/75/100% So it gets a kinda buff but you require and item to use it giving the killer some means to counter itSo just make it better botany knowledge...? That’s not a good idea really. In fact statically that perk barely effects survival, only effecting it mainly on solo...which only survives 30% of the time, thus needs to be stronger.
Do you make this stuff up?
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I think the best to balance out SC is to make it regressively worse over time. It starts standard, but lets say every time someone uses up the equivalent of a full heal bar (doesn't have to be all at once. If someone does healing up to 50% using SC the first time they get hit then someone else heals them, then next time they get hit heal up to 50%, that's the equivalent of a full heal meter), then the perk loses X% on healing speed. So if X was 10, perk would start healing at 50% speed, then go down to 40%, 30% and so on.
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I have suggested in previous threads to make self care apply a no mither effect where you dont grunt in pain or drop blood but you still go down in one hit and then tremendously buff selfcares selfheal efficiency with a medkit at least to a point where you can get two full selfheals out of a brown medkit. It would then make medkits more useful and then it would become a trade off of do you want to be able to fully selfheal independently or do you want to bring a toolbox or flashlight and live with a subpar self heal until you find a teammate. Someone also suggested that you could pair my idea of selfcare with botany knowledge to give you back full self heals. 2 perk slots for being able to fully self heal is a good trade off.
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@SadonicShadow Hmm concept needs more polish I think before being seriously considered. Just some things I would like clarified before properly critiquing the idea:
1) At what point can you take advantage of the self-heal? If you can't go back to healthy but you heal yourself while downed, at what point in the game does the perk become viable?
2) If you able to self-heal while downed, why would you ever run the original No Mither?. It seems like an objectively better version of it and if healing does work while down the way I think it does it also arguably works a little like a multi-use unbreakable.I feel like your perk idea was lost on me, so a little further explanation would be nice
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@VayneHellslinger said:
@SadonicShadow Hmm concept needs more polish I think before being seriously considered. Just some things I would like clarified before properly critiquing the idea:
1) At what point can you take advantage of the self-heal? If you can't go back to healthy but you heal yourself while downed, at what point in the game does the perk become viable?
2) If you able to self-heal while downed, why would you ever run the original No Mither?. It seems like an objectively better version of it and if healing does work while down the way I think it does it also arguably works a little like a multi-use unbreakable.I feel like your perk idea was lost on me, so a little further explanation would be nice
I think i should have been a bit more clear in my post. When i said no mither effect i dident literally mean like the perk no mither. I mean in the context of simply not dropping blood or making grunts of pain. You woulden't be able to recover off the ground. I just used some of the effects of no mither so that people would understand where i was going with my idea. my apologies for the confusion.
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@SadonicShadow Ok different line of questioning then based on the new information:
1) I'm assuming now that you can in fact go back to the healthy state. New question is how much of the perk is like Iron Will? SC into Iron Will is a good combo and this seems to cut the middle man and combine them into one.
2) This is more about the blood dropping since grunts are tackled in Q1, but does it slow the blood dropping or does stop it entirely? If it slows then what percentage were you thinking of?
I don't think there are any other clarity problems that I can think of atm.Post edited by VayneHellslinger on0 -
@VayneHellslinger said:
@SadonicShadow Ok different line of questioning then based on the new information:
1) I'm assuming now that you can in fact go back to the healthy state. New question is how much of the perk is like Iron Will? SC into Iron Will is a good combo and this seems to cut the middle man and combine them into one.
2) This is more about the blood dropping since grunts are tackled in Q1, but does it slow the blood dropping or does stop it entirely? If it slows then what percentage were you thinking of?
I don't think there are any other clarity problems that I can think of atm.It completely stops drops of blood and completely stops grunts of pain. The intent is pretty much to include ironwill into the perk. The healing speed would also be buffed back to base healing speed aswell.
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@SadonicShadow Ok honest review time:
First things first, Stridor. Should this become a thing I foresee an immediate rise in Stridor among the mid to high tier perks. It mitigates the perks' new intent to some degree even if blood stains are still gone.Maps like Institute and Gideon also get a shadow buff for survivors as a result. That many paths with walls separating each section makes it more likely a killer is to lose survivors at a higher rate than before, as tracking blood stains is especially effective on them.
Toolboxes get somewhat of a shadow nerf simply due to less utility or more accurately, the medkit becomes a more viable alternative. Item choice theoretically boils down to flashlight vs medkit as well. On one hand, less flashlights, which I can appreciate as a killer main. On the other, instant heal medkits become more dangerous, since even the brown medkit can now get you up a health state before needing to use the syringe or agent.
Botany + SC combo feels too niche of a combo to be viable. Not likely for a lot of players to invest 2 perks into healing. Same as streetwise + SC.
If I have one thing I would like to change, its that grunts an blood stains incrementally decrease in accordance to how you have healed. If you are at 70% from fully healed, 70% reduced grunts of pain and blood stains. 20% heal complete, 20% reduced grunts, and so on.
That's all my thoughts on your idea. Opinion?
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@VayneHellslinger said:
@SadonicShadow Ok honest review time:
First things first, Stridor. Should this become a thing I foresee an immediate rise in Stridor among the mid to high tier perks. It mitigates the perks' new intent to some degree even if blood stains are still gone.Maps like Institute and Gideon also get a shadow buff for survivors as a result. That many paths with walls separating each section makes it more likely a killer is to lose survivors at a higher rate than before, as tracking blood stains is especially effective on them.
Toolboxes get somewhat of a shadow nerf simply due to less utility or more accurately, the medkit becomes a more viable alternative. Item choice theoretically boils down to flashlight vs medkit as well. On one hand, less flashlights, which I can appreciate as a killer main. On the other, instant heal medkits become more dangerous, since even the brown medkit can now get you up a health state before needing to use the syringe or agent.
Botany + SC combo feels too niche of a combo to be viable. Not likely for a lot of players to invest 2 perks into healing. Same as streetwise + SC.
If I have one thing I would like to change, its that grunts an blood stains incrementally decrease in accordance to how you have healed. If you are at 70% from fully healed, 70% reduced grunts of pain and blood stains. 20% heal complete, 20% reduced grunts, and so on.
That's all my thoughts on your idea. Opinion?
I like your idea of scaling the grunts of pain and drops of blood based upon how much one has healed. Furthermore perhaps when you heal with selfcare fully it does not completely remove grunts of pain or blood drops but significantly lessens them. Like 50 percent less blood drops and grunts of pain are reduced by 80% and to that end stridor would then be able to counter selfcares reduction in pain grunts. My idea is for sure not perfect. Alot of things would need to be considered. The rate of insta heals could potentially increase but in that regard if they are bringing insta heals they are not bringing flashlights and BNP's as much which can arguably be more damaging. With regards to the selfcare + Botany i can still see people running it together but it could actually end up being to strong because with my idea selfcare would have been buffed back up to normal heal speed and with botany increasing healing speed by 20% + allowing full heals with selfcare it could become a problem. But then again they just used 2 perk slots to get that ability.
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The issue with most of these nerf suggestions if you're trying to nerf SVF groups but will in turn screw solo queues over even more than they are now. I've already suggested some good possible compromises that won't nuke solo queue but would make it so SVf groups aren't so op.
I currently run Self Care and Botany Knowledge because I've never seen some of the really good perks. They also fit my playstyle and given solo queue is horrible due to really inexperienced players, campers to the extreme or rage quitters. Your chances of getting healed are slim and none.
There's a rash of really highly skilled and geared killers that have intentionally deranked just so they can go get free kills/easy wins in solo queue. You add to that that most are campers and it's even worse. If you nerf it for solo queue the rage quit rate will skyrocket and no one will want to play. The solution is simple balance SVF separately from solo queue and you can easily balance perks.
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I am a suviver main, ill admit that, and yet i find it more of a challenge to run a build without self care, those who play with it are just scared or don't have Iron will. I actively prefer iron will, only suvivers who run self care are those who don't have iron will(like lauri come on she needs a way to shut up), because sometimes you cant find a teammate to heal you or like i once suffered, have a team that WILL NOT HEAL YOU no matter how hard you beg, had to spend the whole game injured it wasn't fun, couldn't even find a med kit in a chest.
The downside, no matter how hard we try, and how much we try and think up nerfs(like maybe you can only use self care when no other suvivers are near you?) i don't think the devs would nerf it, i have a lot of killer main friends but i want this game to return to how its meant to be, where killer is stronger then the suvivers. But there player base is mostly suviver's not killers, and they keep on listening to them and not the side they need to. I would love for killer to be more fun, then getting trolled and tormented, i would like the game to be fun for everyone.-1 -
@Wolf74 said:
@Jack11803 said:
@FoxWolfFrostFire said:
This whole I don't need no item or team perk needs to die and die hard. I suggest we change it to say reduce the rate of med kits you use on your self by 50/75/100% So it gets a kinda buff but you require and item to use it giving the killer some means to counter itSo just make it better botany knowledge...? That’s not a good idea really. In fact statically that perk barely effects survival, only effecting it mainly on solo...which only survives 30% of the time, thus needs to be stronger.
Do you make this stuff up?
Clearly he does
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@Saphira344 said:
I am a suviver main, ill admit that, and yet i find it more of a challenge to run a build without self care, those who play with it are just scared or don't have Iron will. I actively prefer iron will, only suvivers who run self care are those who don't have iron will(like lauri come on she needs a way to shut up), because sometimes you cant find a teammate to heal you or like i once suffered, have a team that WILL NOT HEAL YOU no matter how hard you beg, had to spend the whole game injured it wasn't fun, couldn't even find a med kit in a chest.
The downside, no matter how hard we try, and how much we try and think up nerfs(like maybe you can only use self care when no other suvivers are near you?) i don't think the devs would nerf it, i have a lot of killer main friends but i want this game to return to how its meant to be, where killer is stronger then the suvivers. But there player base is mostly suviver's not killers, and they keep on listening to them and not the side they need to. I would love for killer to be more fun, then getting trolled and tormented, i would like the game to be fun for everyone.When I started playing the game all most noone had selfcare.
Nowadays noone will heal you anymore because they want to do other stuff while you SC yourself, it is basically assumed that you use SCIn the old days it was much more fun, but thats only my opinion and I am a survivor who actually wants to be scared instead of being granted free wins, thats why I switched to killer, but well its not rlly enjoyable either =(
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@Master said:
@Saphira344 said:
I am a suviver main, ill admit that, and yet i find it more of a challenge to run a build without self care, those who play with it are just scared or don't have Iron will. I actively prefer iron will, only suvivers who run self care are those who don't have iron will(like lauri come on she needs a way to shut up), because sometimes you cant find a teammate to heal you or like i once suffered, have a team that WILL NOT HEAL YOU no matter how hard you beg, had to spend the whole game injured it wasn't fun, couldn't even find a med kit in a chest.
The downside, no matter how hard we try, and how much we try and think up nerfs(like maybe you can only use self care when no other suvivers are near you?) i don't think the devs would nerf it, i have a lot of killer main friends but i want this game to return to how its meant to be, where killer is stronger then the suvivers. But there player base is mostly suviver's not killers, and they keep on listening to them and not the side they need to. I would love for killer to be more fun, then getting trolled and tormented, i would like the game to be fun for everyone.When I started playing the game all most noone had selfcare.
Nowadays noone will heal you anymore because they want to do other stuff while you SC yourself, it is basically assumed that you use SCIn the old days it was much more fun, but thats only my opinion and I am a survivor who actually wants to be scared instead of being granted free wins, thats why I switched to killer, but well its not rlly enjoyable either =(
Oh some suvivers will still heal me, most games i can find others that will, that game has been the only one where i never got healed(and gues who was alive at the end still, ME! went through the whole game injured and still outlived all those with self care!). the worst part though is when i cant find anyone to heal me, that sucks a lot.
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@Master said:
@Saphira344 said:
I am a suviver main, ill admit that, and yet i find it more of a challenge to run a build without self care, those who play with it are just scared or don't have Iron will. I actively prefer iron will, only suvivers who run self care are those who don't have iron will(like lauri come on she needs a way to shut up), because sometimes you cant find a teammate to heal you or like i once suffered, have a team that WILL NOT HEAL YOU no matter how hard you beg, had to spend the whole game injured it wasn't fun, couldn't even find a med kit in a chest.
The downside, no matter how hard we try, and how much we try and think up nerfs(like maybe you can only use self care when no other suvivers are near you?) i don't think the devs would nerf it, i have a lot of killer main friends but i want this game to return to how its meant to be, where killer is stronger then the suvivers. But there player base is mostly suviver's not killers, and they keep on listening to them and not the side they need to. I would love for killer to be more fun, then getting trolled and tormented, i would like the game to be fun for everyone.When I started playing the game all most noone had selfcare.
Nowadays noone will heal you anymore because they want to do other stuff while you SC yourself, it is basically assumed that you use SCIn the old days it was much more fun, but thats only my opinion and I am a survivor who actually wants to be scared instead of being granted free wins, thats why I switched to killer, but well its not rlly enjoyable either =(
With how you want to be scared by the killer instead of easy wins, you are a TRUE survivor. You want the game the way it should be, not keep it the way it is. I'm a killer main fighting for balance, and funny enough, a lot of biased survivors take that as me being biased. I guess they just have to project their insecurities onto other people.
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@SadonicShadow said:
@VayneHellslinger said:
@SadonicShadow Hmm concept needs more polish I think before being seriously considered. Just some things I would like clarified before properly critiquing the idea:
1) At what point can you take advantage of the self-heal? If you can't go back to healthy but you heal yourself while downed, at what point in the game does the perk become viable?
2) If you able to self-heal while downed, why would you ever run the original No Mither?. It seems like an objectively better version of it and if healing does work while down the way I think it does it also arguably works a little like a multi-use unbreakable.I feel like your perk idea was lost on me, so a little further explanation would be nice
I think i should have been a bit more clear in my post. When i said no mither effect i dident literally mean like the perk no mither. I mean in the context of simply not dropping blood or making grunts of pain. You woulden't be able to recover off the ground. I just used some of the effects of no mither so that people would understand where i was going with my idea. my apologies for the confusion.
Renders no mither useless.
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@Brady said:
@SadonicShadow said:
@VayneHellslinger said:
@SadonicShadow Hmm concept needs more polish I think before being seriously considered. Just some things I would like clarified before properly critiquing the idea:
1) At what point can you take advantage of the self-heal? If you can't go back to healthy but you heal yourself while downed, at what point in the game does the perk become viable?
2) If you able to self-heal while downed, why would you ever run the original No Mither?. It seems like an objectively better version of it and if healing does work while down the way I think it does it also arguably works a little like a multi-use unbreakable.I feel like your perk idea was lost on me, so a little further explanation would be nice
I think i should have been a bit more clear in my post. When i said no mither effect i dident literally mean like the perk no mither. I mean in the context of simply not dropping blood or making grunts of pain. You woulden't be able to recover off the ground. I just used some of the effects of no mither so that people would understand where i was going with my idea. my apologies for the confusion.
Renders no mither useless.
Implying it is useful to begin with.
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Ill trade Self-Care for Unlimited uses of Unbreakable. And don't say take No Mither because killers will camp someone with No Mither to death. I'm slugged and camped equally. and EVERY time i take No Mither its a campfest. Im batting 1.000.
Killers and Survivors are both guilty of abusing things in this game. But there needs to be another way to balancing it. This "fix" would be hurting solo players only. SC has already been nerfed. Half I have to run from the hook bc my team tries to heal me with the killer coming back.. I dont need to SC unless I get hit and lose the killer. Which unless im running Iron Will, can prove difficult in some cases.
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@SadonicShadow said:
@Brady said:
@SadonicShadow said:
@VayneHellslinger said:
@SadonicShadow Hmm concept needs more polish I think before being seriously considered. Just some things I would like clarified before properly critiquing the idea:
1) At what point can you take advantage of the self-heal? If you can't go back to healthy but you heal yourself while downed, at what point in the game does the perk become viable?
2) If you able to self-heal while downed, why would you ever run the original No Mither?. It seems like an objectively better version of it and if healing does work while down the way I think it does it also arguably works a little like a multi-use unbreakable.I feel like your perk idea was lost on me, so a little further explanation would be nice
I think i should have been a bit more clear in my post. When i said no mither effect i dident literally mean like the perk no mither. I mean in the context of simply not dropping blood or making grunts of pain. You woulden't be able to recover off the ground. I just used some of the effects of no mither so that people would understand where i was going with my idea. my apologies for the confusion.
Renders no mither useless.
Implying it is useful to begin with.
No mither is useful. Your suggestion would means there's no point in no mither.
No mither tied with tenacity + dead hard + WGLF is a confrontational gameplay meant to take hits for your team.
No mither is pefect for bodyblocking, there's even a perk with it that gives you BP for doing it. It's solely meant for taking hits. Because it doesn't matter if you get down if the killer is distracted, because you can simply pick yourself back up. So yeah, I am implying it has some use.
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@Brady said:
@SadonicShadow said:
@Brady said:
@SadonicShadow said:
@VayneHellslinger said:
@SadonicShadow Hmm concept needs more polish I think before being seriously considered. Just some things I would like clarified before properly critiquing the idea:
1) At what point can you take advantage of the self-heal? If you can't go back to healthy but you heal yourself while downed, at what point in the game does the perk become viable?
2) If you able to self-heal while downed, why would you ever run the original No Mither?. It seems like an objectively better version of it and if healing does work while down the way I think it does it also arguably works a little like a multi-use unbreakable.I feel like your perk idea was lost on me, so a little further explanation would be nice
I think i should have been a bit more clear in my post. When i said no mither effect i dident literally mean like the perk no mither. I mean in the context of simply not dropping blood or making grunts of pain. You woulden't be able to recover off the ground. I just used some of the effects of no mither so that people would understand where i was going with my idea. my apologies for the confusion.
Renders no mither useless.
Implying it is useful to begin with.
No mither is useful. Your suggestion would means there's no point in no mither.
No mither tied with tenacity + dead hard + WGLF is a confrontational gameplay meant to take hits for your team.
No mither is pefect for bodyblocking, there's even a perk with it that gives you BP for doing it. It's solely meant for taking hits. Because it doesn't matter if you get down if the killer is distracted, because you can simply pick yourself back up. So yeah, I am implying it has some use.
No mither needs to sorely be reworked entirely. What you just brought up was the most situational use case i can ever imagine for it and it would require an incredibly dumb killer to just leave a no mither on the ground. No mither is a trash tier, garbage perk and running it hurts your team more than it helps.
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