Killer in red ranks is a horrible experience
- obnoxious survivors playing right up in my face, abusing second chance perks meant to protect against tunnelling to make what should be an obscenely risky play with absolutely no drawbacks because no matter what I do, they'll get away with it using UB/DS/BT
- I hate the feeling I get that I'm losing a game to players I don't even get to interact with because two players tag-team chases while two other people screw around on gens with these survivors rotating as needed, which I know is efficient gameplay but the feeling of having no control over the match is gross. It's gross from start to finish. This is why ruin undying became meta in the first place - killers need a way to exert control over the match outside of the 1v1 and ruin undying enables that. But that's being taken away too so 🤷♂️
- The ranking system is rubbish. Am a dbd casual and I climbed from rank 20 to rank 4 in less than a week. I'm having literally zero fun up here and with no real sense of progression or metrics to compare myself against other killers/survivors (like the ranking system other games have e.g. bronze to regional top 500) and no incentive to grind through to rank 1. Please for the love of God make it harder and more meaningful to rank up and give us regional top 500 leaderboards for both killer and survivor.
- Stuns. Stuns are horrifically unfun in every game I've ever played but are especially punishing in DBD and in red ranks it's either eat what feels like a minute's worth of stuns over the course of a match, or don't eat the stun, wasting time downing people who are in my face with their second chance perks just to let them get picked up (or pick themselves up) and then go screw around on a gen while I'm trying to pressure other gens and other survivors. Killer is incredibly stressful until the first survivor dies and these builds/this playstyle delays and prevents this to the point where outplaying people in the 1v1 doesn't even matter. The whole match is just stress. Crazy that the game is balanced for the 1v1 anyway when survivor split map pressure is what wins games anyway.
This is why I can't take dbd seriously or heavily invest myself into killer. No fun playing a game with only one incredibly stressful game mode where control of the match is firmly in the survivors hands from the start of the match and I feel like I'm not so much playing against the survivors as I am playing against their ridiculously forgiving perks. It's honestly the least fun Multiplayer gaming experience I've ever had.
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Welcome to dbd
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Honestly it sounds like you were boosted to red ranks because of using ruin undying. I'd recommend switching to another build as soon as rank reset hits and allowing yourself get ranked appropriately without ruin undying, if you use ruin/undying after rank reset, you're going to be deranked to the rank that you belong the hard way when February comes around.
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68% kill rate at red ranks suggests that the match is not in survivors' hands, and by your own admission you're a casual player and you're not really invested into killer. It might be worth waiting for MMR to go live before trying again, because that should be a more consistent experience - rank-based matchmaking is definitely rough if you're mostly ranking up through volume.
Also
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I don't have ruin or undying. Also not the point because if two perks can boost a killer to red ranks then that feeds back in to my point about the ranking system being entirely too easy to progress through. I don't want to go from going against consistently brown and yellow rank survivors one day to purple and red ranks the next. Let me stay in the rank I'm in and grind up the same way I have to in every other game. Slowly.
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i even hit and hold purple ranks simply facecamping every second match... some people try to find excuses for flawed game design. there is no such thing as boosted ranks in this game. That is something you don´t even really find in real pvp games.
Yes, red ranks SWF is broken and a bad experience indeed. this has even been proven more than enough by now. You deliever proof after proof but some people refuse to see it. They mix up voice comm information with "survivor skill"...
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I didn't say the game was survivor sided. I just said I hate the experience of playing killer in red ranks and these are the reasons why.
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I don't believe you. :) No, you didn't go from Rank-20 Killer to Rank-4 in less than a week. Is that possible? Sure. Does it happen often? No. Moreover, the stuff you are saying convinces me you are using hyperbole because you think saying you are a Red Rank somehow lends weight your rant. It doesn't. About the only thing you said that is true is that matchmaking is rubbish. For the record, I am a Red Rank Killer. Unlike yourself, I do not claim to be a savant. It took me a good long while to work myself up to Rank-1. Now I hold on to it, rarely having it shift further than Rank three before going back down. The reset, of course, hits us all. The games are certainly challenging in the Red Ranks, and you face a lot more SWF, but impossible they are not.
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You don't have to believe me. Not here to convince you. I'm just giving feedback from what my experience has been in a forum specifically catered towards receiving feedback.
For the record, blasting from brown ranks through to purple ranks was a breeze and you do not have to be a huge brain genius to rank up in this system. I play Spirit if that helps because I enjoy her 1v1 - it rewards precision and good prediction and I got 3-4k almost every match during the climb - and I don't want to have to hold the game hostage using gen defence builds/killers cos that's about as unfun a way as I can imagine having to play. You can say Spirit is broken and I can see why you would, however my own personal opinion is that how can anyone say a 1v1 killer is broken when SwFs exist and a killer can be hard countered not by skill but by a survivor sitting on gens across the map from where you know a chase is happening?
It's not fun. It really isn't.
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That's good, because I don't. In regard to your negative experience, you always can vote with your wallet. That will have far more effect than any post here. Matchmaking is terrible. It has been bad as long as I can remember, but that is neither here nor there. Sometimes it is awful in your favor and sometimes not. We are in the Wild West of DbD matchmaking; I suspect it is 1st in 1st out to speed up the queues. :)
I do agree that I would love to see a leaderboard go up, particularly now that Rank will be utterly meaningless except for the reward system they are going to put into play. I'm not holding my breath. In regards to feeling you have no power over the Red Rank matches, you are simply wrong. You have all the power you exert. I could care less what Killer you play; why would I? Spirit is an effective, high mobility Killer with very few direct counters. She is particularly effective against SWF because it is difficult to keep eyes on her. Nine times out of ten they don't see you coming and you should just be leaping out of haunting and downing them before they even get a chance to loop you. Your description of your experiences simply do not jive with what I know of Red Rank Spirit play.
The loss of the Undying+Ruin combo is hardly the end of the world. Oppression+Pop is actually a better option for a high mobility Killer like Spirit anyway. You can hook someone, force the Great Skill checks, instantly find out where other peopel are and haunt on top of them and get another hook. Wash, rinse, repeat. I know Red Rank Spirit players who pride themselves on doing grabs off Generators only. I play a very SLOW Killer by comparison. I'm a Myers main. Most of the time I'm a Spooky Myers main. I play him on all the maps, not just the smaller indoor selections. If I can play slow Spooky in the Red Ranks and get by, so can you. Judging by your description of things, I'd actually peg you as a Green Rank Killer. You are just good enough now that you are facing regular SWF and Solos that know what they are doing, and you get a lot of Red/Purple (who are a lot better than you) Smurfing. Regardless, if you aren't having fun, don't play. But don't assume your inability to compete as a Killer at a certain level is shared by the rest of us. It isn't.
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Maybe I am a green rank killer! I'm fine with that - I just want to stay in green ranks and go against other green rank players instead of the 3-4 stack red rank SwFs I get in my games instead and not get boosted to red ranks in a system that rewards time put in to a role in a month and not skill. I don't understand what your points even address though - I'm not saying I'm the greatest at this game, I never have, I didn't ask for tips and advice, all I'm saying is the game at the higher ranks is supremely unfun for how easy it is to rank up to that level and I would rather slog through lobbies with players of equal skill and get better at the game at a regular pace instead of getting bullied by red ranks in stacks game after game when days before I was going up against survivors ranked >10. That's all?
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Thanks for that incredibly unhelpful reply. I don't remember asking for tips or tricks or saying my experience reflects everyone else's (although I know there are a lot of people that have also expressed frustration at the balance of the game). I also don't remember stating that I couldn't compete - apparently I can, even if I get a 0k apparently that isnt enough to depip because I did get a bunch of hooks and chases in that match.
All I've said and all I will continue to say is that the experience isn't fun, these are the reasons why, and here I am leaving them in the feedback section of the forums where I assume feedback belongs. Is that okay?
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And please, if I am a green rank killer, I need you to know that I don't think that's an insult and I'm very okay with the idea of staying in green ranks to grind games against other similarly skilled players slowly in order to improve at a more measured pace. Maybe all of my issues go away if the matchmaking was loads better than it is. Maybe. But it's not, and I don't like getting thrown in the deep end so quickly.
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Ok? Your feedback says you aren't having fun. You claim to be doing AWESOME, a savant who in less than a week is fighting with the best. You claim you don't have a problem with anything that you ranted about in your original post. Do you see the contradiction? Clearly those things you are ranting about aren't really a problem? You just implied you can compete, you just aren't having any fun. Ok? So you want things easier than you have them now? You need to make some sense for your argument in feedback to hold any water (or get any attention).
I know you didn't ask for any tips or help, but I'm helpful guy. If I find someone moaning and whining in pain, I'm going to stop and render aid. Take a look at your first post, and tell me if that sounds like feedback or a moaning, painful rant? :) Do you see my point? I don't like inconsistencies in arguments. I don't like things that don't ring true. This game (like all games) does have its problems. Some of the things you mentioned are worthy of discussion, but the overall sad song you played us is tired, redundant and untrue. I'm giving you feedback on your feedback. I'm also posting in your thread because I feel an obligation to weigh in on this since you chose to speak as a Red Rank Killer. I think the DEV should hear from lots of Red Rank Killers, even those (like me) who disagree with you.
The Red Ranks, if you are truly there, are supposed to be hard fought. That is the entire point. Why else would you or I work so hard to get there. I would think you want to fight against the best of the best if you can find them. Naturally said people are going to min/max the crud out of their builds. Just like you, they are going to do their level best to win. That just makes killing them more satisfying. It makes the victory special. So, please clarify the inconsistencies in your statements. And answer one simple question; if you aren't having any fun, why are you still here?
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No I get you - I'm just trying to point out that the typical red rank killer experience isn't like that. It's certainly stressful, but you shouldn't always feel at the mercy of the survivors. From your post it sounds like you're just stuck in overleveled purgatory and you're consistently playing against people that you're not ready for. That's why I'm saying that MMR should help things, because rank won't matter and you'll just be given better matches.
In the meantime all I can suggest is some combination of the following: 1) post some gameplay on the forum for people to critique to try to get better / check out some killer gameplay on YouTube or Twitch to have people to model your game off of, 2) take a break - wait until MMR goes live or at least until a few days after rank reset (it's tomorrow, I think) to try again, 3) intentionally choose a killer like Plague that's hard to pip with so that you're less likely to rank up quickly, 4) seriously watch the video I posted if you didn't - YMMV but I think it's good for perspective and looking at things that way helps me chill out and have more fun as killer.
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Because I want to have fun? Because I like the premise of the game and I want to enjoy the actual gameplay?
You actually don't have to leave feedback on my feedback. Shocking, I know. If your feedback is positive, you should totally go and leave feedback in your own thread where you praise the balance of the game so that the devs can indeed hear you. But if I personally am not having a good time, I'm allowed to leave feedback in the feedback section. There's no arguments to have inconsistencies in because I'm not debating my experience with you. My experience is my experience and if it sounds like moaning or complaining to you, guess what, don't care, it's not directed at you. I don't need it validated or countered, I just wanted to share it, in a section of the forums where feedback is supposed to be shared. Can I clarify anything else for you now or are we good to just drop it?
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It wasn't intended as an insult. I simply estimated where I think you are based on the experiences you are describing. I base that estimate on my own passing through that stage, as well as my knowledge of other Killer mains. I did my time in the Green Ranks and I found them to be the most painful, stressful and educational. For some reason you fight more Purple and Red Survivors as a Green Rank Killer than you do anything else. By the time I hit the Purple Ranks I'd been playing against so many Red and Purple prior that I had less issue going through Purple and into Red. I'd say my hardest hill to climb was the Green. After that, the next hardest was going from Rank-4 to Rank-3. I sat at Rank-4 for a LONG time. Pips up and then Pips down. Once I broke through, I never went backwards... well aside from the resets. We have one coming up immediately and I'll be Rank-5 again for a day.
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Otz is a good lad. I love him.
I'm worried that MMR for a game with no clearly defined win condition is going to lead me to play against sweat squads all day every day and I'm not overly hopeful, but who knows? Maybe you're right. I hope so. I still think a harder-to-climb rank system like in other games where ranking up is an actual achievement and a top 500 leaderboard to aspire to would do wonders for the game's enjoyment factor and giving players a feeling of progress when they actually do improve.
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Sure, but I am going to give you one last tip. My grandfather taught it to me, although he certainly was taught it by someone else. It is an old saying, that I'm sure you have heard but never really digested and implemented. "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar." I'm 100% positive you could have made every point you wanted from your original post far more effectively if it wasn't a rant. The DEV are people, just like you and me. They take pride in their work. How do you feel when people unload on something you work on and take pride in? There are effective ways to give constructive critiques and there is the method you employed. I don't think you are going to listen to me, but I hope you do take this to heart. Thus ends my little, helpful digression.
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The messed up thing about DbD is I've had games where I won and I didn't have fun. (I'm not talking about boring because it was too easy, because that can happen in any game.) Matches where it wasn't a fun and stimulating challenge but just stressful. I didn't care that I won, I just wanted out and that'd be my last match for the night.
(Before anyone asks, no, sorry, I don't remember exactly what was so frustrating. I stopped playing DbD seriously a good while ago, and I've been on a total break for several weeks, so there are no recent memories to go by.)
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This would be relevant if I was taking potshots at the devs and absolutely trashing their game, but as I very clearly haven't been and have only left feedback on my experiences playing killer in a rank I shouldn't be in because the system boosted me here, you're absolutely correct that I'm not going to take that suggestion to heart. Again, don't need your feedback. I didn't leave mine for you to leave feedback on. It's for the devs who - and I don't know how many different ways I can explain this - explicitly created this sub-forum so that players could leave their feedback on their experiences playing the game. Now please, pretty please, feel free to helpfully digress in a conversation with someone that actually wants to hear it.
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No; that is not how this works. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. If you start a thread and leave feedback, it is an open forum (if you will) for all of us to also chime in, supporting or disagreeing with you. And do you really want me to take your OP apart paragraph by paragraph, word by word, and demonstrate that you were in fact trashing their game? You also seemed to be trashing Survivors too, as if they are doing something wrong using those darn LEGAL Perks that they paid for with blood, sweat, and tears. Seriously, if you want to let this drop, let it drop. But if you want to keep defending your post as if it was some polite, friendly commentary, well then I'm going to quote you and demonstrate why it isn't. So, shall we play a game?
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Me too <3
And yeah, no guarantees that MMR will solve all the matchmaking problems, but I'm choosing to be optimistic it'll make things a lot better. They've at least shown a willingness to pull the plug when it doesn't get things right, so I'm at least hopefully they won't stop working on it until it's in a good state. Whether or not they'd ever want to make players ratings public so there could be some sort of a ladder is a whole other conversation, but maybe one day! Either way step one is getting the MMR system going, I suppose.
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Oh I see. Well thanks for clarifying that you're not actually trying to leave constructive feedback so that the devs hear from "all red rank killers" as you say. You just want to apply "heat" because this is a "kitchen" of sorts and if someone dares open their mouth and leaves feedback for devs in the feedback section of the forums, they leave themselves open to getting burned by people who aren't even the poster's target audience. I'm glad you've clarified that you're chiming in your two cents that I didn't ask for nor do I want, just because you can.
Go play your own game, dude. I'm good.
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I'd be so much happier with quick play/competitive queues with MMR in quick play and a much more comprehensive competitive ranking system that actually worked to keep people in the ranks they should be in. Let me be trash at my own pace pls lmao.
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I'm making my point over and over again and YOU are helping me. You are proving it for me. Your answer to my question of why are you still here if you aren't having fun was "because I want to have fun." Ok; that is a bit cryptic but it is an answer. I'm going to suggest that you do a little research. Look back through the years on this Forum. Start counting the threads and posts where people complain about the things you ranted about. You will quickly discover why I point out that your sad song is redundant. You will also quickly discern why I am suggesting you will get no traction with your post.
If you want to have fun, then go play something you find fun. If you have fun posting passive aggressive posts here, and yes "trashing" the games you play, by all means continue. I know there are people that derive pleasure from that for some strange reason. Just be realistic. What is it exactly that you are asking the DEV to do beside establish a Leader Board (which I agreed with by the way)?
Your first so-called point was a slam on Survivors, complaining about Survivor Perks. Well give some specifics about what you want done about them. There are lots of threads discussing that. You don't give any constructive feedback there. You seem more fixated on the "obnoxious" Survivors. I don't think I need to go on about your 1st point.
Let's look at your second one. Mostly you are lamenting YOUR inability to exert control over the match. How is that the DEV's problem? Isn't that more your personal failing? What is it you want them to do, make things easier for you? How? There is the passive aggressive commentary about Ruin+Undying so I'm guessing point two is really you wanting to complain about that? If so, be direct. There are plenty of threads discussing that too. Let's try point number three.
You don't like matchmaking. That makes it pretty unanimous. Nobody is happy with matchmaking, including the DEV. That is why they are working on MMR again. This is the only section where you state anything which has validity and where you make a straightforward suggestion (the Leader Board). Great. I wish more of your OP had been so concrete.
Now let's tackle point four. You whined about stuns a lot. Apparently you don't like this basic mechanic of the game. I hate to break it to you, but it isn't going anywhere. You are just going to have to get better, so you get stunned less. You would have to be stunned twelve times to lose a minute in game. Are you getting stunned that much? I know you said it "feels" like a minute. Even if I parse your words and assume you are only getting stunned half what it feels like to you that means you got stunned six times? No, someone claiming to be a Red Rank can't be be getting stunned that many times. But even if I half that again, you are saying you get stunned 3 times in a match? Seriously? You wonder why I don't believe a word you say when you claim to have gotten to Rank-4 in less than a week? I mean, come on, why don't you just come clean. It is good for the soul.
So your points are largely just a rant, and you don't really suggest much. You are complaining a lot though. Constructive? No. I also wanted to address that 1v1 situation you seem to enjoy. Of course you win 1v1 chases in dead zones. You are faster than the Survivor. Their only option is to use terrain to outplay you, and/or stun you. I know it is inconvenient, the Survivors doing their best to stay alive and all, using the game mechanics provided to try to offset the fact that Killers win 1v1 most of the time. Do you see where I'm going with this? I'm also going to let you in on something; I'm like a snapping turtle. Once I bite down, I don't let go. So you and I can go round and round on this forever. I have the facts on my side. I have your post. I can quote it from here to eternity. I haven't even gotten into the fallacies of your various arguments yet. You can keep going, and so will I. You can drop it, and of course I would too. Or you can admit that maybe your original post wasn't as nice as you think You can perhaps accept that some of what you are complaining about is on YOU, not the game and not those "obnoxious" Survivors. Accepting personal responsibility goes a long way.
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Bro I didn't ask
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Get serious. Killers and survivors at red ranks can be really terrible people. That's not exclusive to Dead by Daylight either. In a game where escaping or getting 4 kills isn't necessary to get a lot of points or rank up, insecure players will still have a lust to tug their weens at how great they think they are at the game.
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The most unfun thing about killer is the lack of counterplay. So much on the survivor side has no counterplay but almost everything on the killer side is designed with counterplay in mind. So it always feels like survivors are in control, and we know they fully are in control vs m1 killers.
Also the cumbersome janky mechanics don't help. Recent pyramidhead changes are a good example. Yeah I get they wanted to balance it but having your character stuck in animation and unresponsive for a few seconds is the kind of changes they make to all killers and it just sucks. Survivor is fun because survivors feel responsive. Killers do not.
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While most killers are easy to pick up and understand power wise. Actual killer methods of playing tiles and knowing when and where to be chasing takes a little longer.
Chances are you just won a lot against survivors who were also new, and because the ranking system sucks and is based more on time played than skill you're getting placed against survivors more experienced than your current level.
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