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I like it and after this you say that its not survivor game?
We’ve been watching this one closely, and there’s a few things we’d like to address:
- Transferring the same Hex multiple times can get out of hand: Hexes are meant to be strong perks that can be destroyed, and having to destroy the same Hex four times can be a bit much.
- Since tokens aren’t transferred when a Hex changes totems, Undying was unpopular with perks other than Ruin (which does not have any tokens and is immediately at full power).
- Having aura reading on all totems also made it a very powerful tracking perk on top of its other effects, and is a little redundant with Hex: Thrill of the Hunt.
With this in mind, we are making three changes to Hex: Undying:
- Any time a Hex totem is cleansed, it will replace the Hex: Undying totem. Hex: Undying is then deactivated. This ensures that the first totem cleansed is never your other Hex perk.
- Any tokens you’ve already accumulated are now kept when the Hex perk transfers totems. This way you’re not starting from scratch part way through a match.
- Aura reading only applies to dull totems.
We hope this makes Hex perks other than just Ruin more appealing when used with Undying.
But dear devs hope that survivors continue use meta DS+BT with DISCORD of cousre ..continue use broken hard dead :D it is normally..becuas esurvivors can be upset :D
Where is nerf of key?
For devs strong attention what use killer :D but not improtant for them what use survivors 90% SWF and meta :D
Comments
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What?
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He saying how come the killer meta that id dependent on rng has been for almost 6 months got changed so quickly but the almost uncountable ds unbreakable hasn't been touched in 2 years nearing 3
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Well, put it this way. 1 killer = 4 survivors. Which side do you think has more voices to shout louder?
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There are lots of people who play both sides and I do think Behaviour has done a decent job with improving balance over time, but fair point :)
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The majority is not how you balance the game though. The only reason they can continue to get away with this behavior is because they have been unchallanged in this genre (at least in any meaningful way), so they can continue to do whatever they want because there is nothing better.
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Sorry not sorry that ruin undying isn't there to carry bad killers to undeserved wins anymore. It cannot be denied that this combo was extremely bad for the game.
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The undying change is much needed. They've made it much harder to find totems so having to cleanse something twice is more than enough. Four times is too much.
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@Splinterverse The BT and DS change is much needed...maybe 1,5 years :D and change to needed haddonfield map with cornfields but now very important change gideon and crocus :D
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I understand that you've wanted changes to those for a long time, but making survivor unplayable is not going to get you there. Go play survivor for 8 hours straight in various formations (solo, SWF, mix), etc. and then come back here with an opinion about undying. In it's current state, it makes it unplayable.
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Ruin Undying was a problem because it did too much. Ruin is the most powerful gen regression perk in the game. Hexes are usually extremely powerful because they can be cleansed and once cleansed they're gone for the rest of the match. Old Undying potentially allowed Ruin to stay up through 5 totem cleanses if the Killer was very lucky. And yes it could also be cleansed away in 2 but that was unlikely.
Just yesterday me and my friends had two matches where we couldn't cleanse away Ruin Undying in the first few minutes and it just makes you lose the match when / if the Killer downs anyone and removes someone from the match. And then when we DID find the final lit totem the Killer camped it. Like ugh talk about overkill at that point.
Yeah if I bring a map + detectives every match I can be on guaranteed totem duty but I don't have that many maps so rip.
Bottom line, powerful hex perks shouldn't stay up for free ALL match long that doesn't even make sense especially when Hex Undying itself IS A HEX PERK.
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DS BT never a problem if you don't tunnel / camp. Dead Hard on the other hand, even if it works not properly, is a huge problem. Even when you know the guy has it, if he is decent, he just uses it to make it to a window or pallet. It's the strongest perk there.
It buys so much time and that's exactly what a killer doesn't have enough and it has a CD, not a onetime use.
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DS BT isnt even an issue and dead hard is more of an issue honestly unless you like to tunnel or slug
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What.
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lmao not even able to see an aura on the hexes to protect them, only getting one single use out of undying, use up at least two perk slots out of only 4 versus a total of combined 16 on survivors just to have undying active for one, single, use. yeah, go back to plague's corrupt. Remember, you gotta be able to catch survivors, and have a mobile enough killer while also not having troll swf or potatoes that unhook in your face to get any use from DH. Besides HG, DH is the only other hex worth using with undying besides ruin. And there are better ways to expose such as MYC or the killers' abilities on a few that save you another perk slot. So... RIP undying lmao. They better start rolling out double xp every other weekend so that at least a weekend or two a month survivors could have reasonable time spent waiting in queue roflmfao
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It was actually only skillful killers who really got value out of this. If a killer is bad, they will probably not even get that much use out of this combo. I say skillful because you had to switch from chasing to scaring survivors off gens to chasing but not too much of either. But yeah, this combo was terrible because it was all up to RNG.
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talking to your friends and laughing while playing dbd uncounterable op meta perk must nerf fast!!!!!!!!😡😡😡😡😡
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Yeah say this to every bad survivor who relys on second chance perks and crutch perks that they all love to use so much
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Making them harder to find means nothing when you have a semi meta perks completely built around rng and whether someone just happens to run into it or not.
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Not everything can be done at once and also keep in mind that survivors got heavily nerfed in the past so the old talk that the game is survivor sided isn't relevant anymore, also ds/bt are not really a problem unless you tunnel(ds sometimes can be abused but not really a big problem) and dead hard is easy predict and most of the time it doesn't work cause of latency. Also now undying can be paired with other hexes like lullaby or devour which in a way actually makes it better than before and more balanced with the other changes
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If you don't like the RNG, don't run the hex perks. The fact that they can sometimes be found easily does not negate the fact that the existing Undying + Ruin makes the match pretty much un-winnable AND therefore unplayable. Get over it.
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There's no comparison
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No, God awful killers might not have gotten much out of it because they're gonna get stomled either way, but bad-mediocre-good killers were carried by this combo
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Sure. I'd like to see something done about how opressive DS/UB can be. But if it never changes its not going to ruin the game for me. I can deal with it. Undying change is fine, in my opinion. I know a lot of people disagree. And thats fine. I value perk variety in my builds so more meta/semi-meta perks is a good change to me. And it'll still be good with Ruin, just slightly less strong.
I do agree that it is silly to change it without saying/doing anything about DS, though, they can both be considered "second chance" perks. The devs acknowledge that DS always has been and still is a problem perk. But its not the end of the world. I wasn't using it that much anyway.
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Okay yeah sure there isn't.
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The change seems to have been made to keep the ratio of cleanses to hex perks the same (as per past intentions).
IE Current Undying can result in 5 cleanses for bringing 2 hex perks.
New Undying guarantees that bringing 2 hex perks results in exactly 2 cleanses.
While it's a direct nerf to the Ruin combo, I think the utility with token based hex perks is neat.
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I play solo always and tbh never found the combo a problem.
Just push trough and you'll be fine.
If working with 2 survivors on 1 gen and you get pushed off, don't run to far.
If he's chasing the other survivor you run back and do the gen.
Ruin is as strong as survivors let it to be.
I have never had a problem with the combo as solo.
Yes I can understand people might find it a hard combo.
I have won games as solo where ruin was up all match.
How?
Just pushed trough and do as I said to the person I replied before you.
If i come across a totem I cleanse it even if it's a dull totem.
Do I find 1 of the 2 hexes and he chases me off?
I wait till he downs someone and as soon as he picks him up I cleanse the hex.
As killer you must be really close to a hook or close by me to get to me before I destroyed it.
Again, the hexes are as strong as you let them to be.
Old ruin was strong but the new one is nowhere as strong tbh imo.
I have to agree to disagree with you about DS tho.
DS is a problem especially in combo with ub.
I can hook 2 other survivors before I find the first one again and still get hit by ds, and trust me it has happened several times before.
Now did i tunnel or camp?
Nope, I just capitalised of the survivors mistakes and getting punished for it.
Now you could say, if you doubt that that survivor still has ds, (which you won't after hooking 2 others) you slugg them.
Well yes I could do that, that is true.
Unfortunately they get up again because of unbreakable and I have to find them again, hit them again and down them again for what?
Because the F'ed up, I have to pay the consequences for their mistakes as killer?
How does that make sense?
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The only reason it was any good was because it forced survivors to cleanse 3-4 totems sometimes.
The totem spawns are typically so obvious that usually ruin or undying was still blowing up in the first minute of the game. I will be back to never using hex perks outside a devour hope gamble on Hawkins / Lerys after this nerf.
There was a 50% chance undying was going first every game and the combo did practically nothing.
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You overestimate the times, people use DS and UB together. I made my own little survey of 100 red rank games and DS was used 174 (43,5%) times, UB 66 (16,5%) and on one survivor together ~33 times. So roughly, only 1/3 of games has one survivor, that uses both together. Only 3 games where 2 used it and 1 where 3 used the combination.
It is similar to the old dev statistic in use of the perks.
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I disagree with good killers being carried by this combo, but maybe mediocre to bad killer players were sort of carried by the combo.
What is the point of running undying + ruin if you are so focused on a chase the whole game, or doing something else that is unnecessary? This is what bad to mediocre killers have problems with. But if the perks still work against a killer like this, then it is probably the survivor's fault for not doing gens.
Good killers on the other hand earn the value they get out of this combo. It really did take skill to use this combo in a way that you get lots of use out of it. Unlike a survivor perk like dead hard where you just press E to erase a mistake made or make distance. It took skill because like I said, you have to know when to just run around scaring survivors off of gens or chase them.
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I can see why it needed to be nerfed, because of people playing it on killers like Freddy/Spirit/Nurse/Oni/etc.
But it was very nice to have a strategy outside camping/tunneling/slugging on some of the weaker killers; who I regularly play. Pop does not help control gens enough if all 4 survivors are glued to separate generators. It really only helps in a 3v1 but by then you could probably slug to win anyways
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The change is needed? well let us look at two perks only because that is the ones that are mostly talked about here. Undying and DS. take a killer with only Undying and a survivor with only DS. who gets the most out of their perk? undying gets changed three months in because of how it synergies with other hex perks, yet DS synergies with UB and BT in more damaging ways to the game. so on it's on undying is crap, it REQUIRES something else. but DS does NOT require anything so when you take something that is crap and add something good you get something great! but you take something Great and pair it up with another something good or great you have a stupendiously OP combination that can't be countered, yet undying can, take down totems and you stop undying from working. LOL talk about idiocy, this was because survivors don't want to do anything but do gens and get out. you know what I used to report AFK killers, now I won't because I see why they do it as they won't get a good or fair shake. Yea right it was needed. DS change has been needed for over a year maybe 2 now.... someone said almost 3? dunno about that but yea... lets keep only dealing with killer related items!
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That might be, but then again I see it quit often used together both when I play as survivor and as killer.
The times I see ds being used in reds is almost every single game.
If lucky I maybe, just maybe see 3 matches without ds.
And when ds is used there is almost every time ub in the build too.
Might be that it is different on other platforms tho.
I tried to do a little survey myself but stopped when I got around 50 or so games.
There were only just a hand full of games where there wasn't a ds and/or ub.
So it could be platform or region specific
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I don't think it's about how vocal survivors are, because in my experience on social media it's mostly killers bitching non stop. I think the real reason is that if something is broken on the killer's side, it affects 4 other players. Killers impact the game more than survivors and their imbalances are more problematic for the game as a whole.
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When did they say keys will be nerfed?
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Don't know exactly but I remember they talked about it saying both mori and key will get reworked.
Which is funny because it's always like if they bring one the other brings the other one and they used both in 1 sentence.
So you might think they implement both at the same time.
But unfortunately they only changed the mori and didn't say anything about that, it was just there without any announcements it was coming that patch.
And they key stayed untouched and unspoken.
So if lucky, they key might be changed somewhere around this time next year is my guess.
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"key might be changed somewhere around this time next year is my guess"
lol
I guess I have 1 more year to abuse keys before they take it away =)
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It WAS and IS much needed. Finding 5 totems to cleanse is nearly impossible with how they've hidden them now. DS has a counter. Don't pick them up until it runs out. Boom. Problem solved. They will address it eventually and until then you have a solution. Undying has no workaround. Thus, it was changed FIRST. Deal.
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leaving someone on the ground is not a counter when they more than likely have unbreakable. that's bs. and no one has to do all 5 totems. you are making excuses to not do things that you should in the game like always. you are the problem with this along with others. like i said play killer with undying and have someone run ds only (no other perks) see who gets more utility out of their perk! I will say it's the DS because undying doesn't give you crapola when it is alone. how could that be a problem? oh you want to add ruin there? sure.. add unbreakable to the DS, this again gives the survivor more utility out of the perks. if you need to add tinkerer and BT.... now you have survivors barely overpowering the combo... that RELYS on people not doing their secondary objectives like weenies!
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😂😂
Not if I find you first with franklins 😜😂
Which appearantly people seems to hate when i do that 😂
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What the hell is wrong with Dead Hard?
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@EvanSnowWolf u can turn and run to killer use dead hard and killer not damage u,its a bullshit because dead hard must work if survivor run from killer ONLY
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more survivor's thins in game for exmaple
1.devs add silver line EGC...for what?that have chance unhook survivor
2.devs can't long time fix when survivor stop gen regress
3.survivors have 1000000000000 perks of second chance+can communicate with friends
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Again. You are wrong. With undying active (in its current state) and ruin, you have to potentially cleanse all 5 totems to get rid of it and ruin. That had to be fixed.
With DS leaving them on the ground is not 100% guaranteed to work, but it can. I'd say it has a better chance of working than finding all 5 totems against ruin and undying. Stop focusing on undying and just make another complaint thread about DS even though the best killers work with it.
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I have to disagree, if you play a bit of survivor (my guess is you play it a lot), you won't have a hard time finding totems.
Simply because you should know the spawn points of them by now.
Leaving a guy with ds on the ground you have 3 other factors to worry about namely survivors.
And unlike your totems, they aren't stationary but always moving around.
Meaning if you search for another survivor, most likely 1,2 or 3 survivors will heal him up.
The only reason they nerfed it, is because of lazy survivors who know only 1 thing and that is doing gens.
I play solo survivor and never ever had any problems with undying.
Fun fact, if the killer is very focused on chasing you of the totems, it can backfire on him.
Done that a couple of times, he chases me off and moves to somewhere else and I go back to the totem and we repeat the circle.
I've made them lose the match because of that several times.
Unfortunately, and they don't make it a secret anymore, the devs are very survivor favoured and this react very fast to crying survivors instead of letting them to learn to adept to a different playstyle
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Have YOU played survivor recently? They recently reworked the spawn points for totems. There are now near infinite spawn points. Finding 5 is simply TOO much. The change to undying means you need to find TWO and that is a reasonable compromise.
I could give two s* about DS as I don't run it anyway.
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OMFG! you act as if you are the only one in the match! there are 4 survivors. there are 5 totems. if you pay attention you will see them. I did an experiment yesterday just to see what happens, but i worked on a gen and took down 3 totems all within the span of 3 minutes into the game. This is on the new reworked Azorov's maps where I have played only a few times so I do not know the new totem spawns yet. so if I could do a gen and 3 totems in 3 minutes (SOLO GEN) you know what would have been great? if i did one gen and 1-2 totems, along with the other survivors doing a gen and totems as they see them there would be no noed, undying, ruin, or anything else. but you know what? I was SOLO survivor doing this.... you want to talk about can't play solo games I'll tell you this, if you concentrate on gens alone you can't see the totems through the weeds is BS! You can look for them as you move around the map even while being chased you can pay attention to what is around!
If you can't do that, then you will always complain about things and that is what is happening with undying. almost 1.5-2 years of DS combined with UB being the bane of killers and being told not to tunnel when they DONT tunnel but still get hit by DS is BS... and survivors can't be ARSED to take a totem down or two when they see them next to the damn gens they are working on or in the middle of the field with nothing concealing them but no one wants to touch a totem because it takes to long so they complain. even when the devs made a dull totem 1000 blood points,and 1500 for the hex totems instead of 600 and 1000! you are the problem, not us, not those of us that are being realistic, we can see how undying can be a problem IF you let it, but DS is a problem no matter what. DS: originally reworked second time you never know WHO has DS because the game was unfair to survivors because the DS user was singled out back then because obsession perks were and are not widely used but DS however was used because of it's utility. and that's why it's a random person, because the killer knew who to leave on the ground and it was unfair. and sure i can see why it was, but you know what? undying was not unfair. two perk slots that can be deactivated by the survivors in 12 seconds each totem, and that's 1/2 your build look at DS/UB: you CHOOSE when to use them not someone else deactivating them. and that's 1/2 your OWN perks so which is more fair? choosing when you deactivate your perks or when someone else does the deactivating your perks. so yes it's a risk to run the two hex perks, but that risk was done before with thrill of the hunt and devour/noed etc.
my points ARE very valid, and your points are only valid if you are a survivor main who only cares to do gens and get the ######### out which is what you have reveiled yourself to be. DO BONES and undying isn't a problem.
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I had several matches with actual skilled players using nurse, spirit, freddy, pphead, that would use this combo. And not just use it, they were, during a chase, actively looking around for auras of survivors even working on dull totems and would break chase to guard the totems. It was completely over oppressive and impossible to do anything (solo queue). I gave up every time because its not worth my time to play with the universes ultimate sweat lords. It carried good players more than it carries mediocre or bad ones.
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I will admit in a situation like that you are pretty screwed. However, it is not exactly carrying that killer. Being "carried" by something is winning only because of it. A good killer who protects their totems and scares survivors off of gens gets value out of their perks but is not being "carried". If they were carried, this means that they played very poorly and the only reason they won was because of [perk], like NOED.
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Or Ds and Unbreakable. People get carried by those alot.
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True, you can be carried more by survivor perks than killer perks and that is a fact. Especially BS DS.
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