General Discussions
General Discussions
Can anybody come up with a good use for the Afterpiece antidote?
I really can't find a use for the antidote at all, it's not good for chases because it can potentially harm you and the tonic is just 100% more reliable, can't use it for map pressure because the speed it gives isn't really noticeable and any distance gained from it is negated by the fact you have to reload. using it aas you break a pallet actually takes longer since you have to throw it first.
It really should be changed, maybe remove the inactive period so it just instantly goes into effect. How about combining the two so the purple gas slows survivors and makes the clown faster.
Comments
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i havent tried it out myself yet (and im nowhere near good enough as a clown to really talk about high level clown strats tbh), but the way i would attempt to use it was by throwing a Afterpiece Tonic Bottle at the survivor, then an Afterpiece Antidote (which is inactive when it hits them) and them come into contact with it once i reach the survivors location.
so i'd use the inactive periode of it to throw it at the survivor and then use the speedboost myself once i reach their position, combined with the slowdown from a well placed tonic.
in theory that way the survivor shouldnt be able to get a benefit from it (without waiting inside the gas, which once again lets me catch up), while i could just zoom after them and catch up very quickly.
again, i dont know how that theory holds up in practise, but i think thats the way they intended it to be used?
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Some tricks Otz mentioned with the new Clown kit:
- You can toss a yellow down just before you break a pallet. By the time the cloud forms, the pallet is down and you can chase down the survivor.
- You can reach a generator better by throwing a yellow ahead of you and running through it for a boost.
- You can better reach hooks by throwing a yellow on a downed survivor. By the time your pick up animation is completed you are ready to zoom to your hook.
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It looks pretty garbage. Assuming bleach is still in I don’t ever really see why you would be using a 10% speed boost over a 20% speed debuff for the same bottle.
And it takes 2 seconds for the cloud to form? Nah. Might as well not exist outside the longest loops in the games.
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Clownisking would like to have a word with you XD
But yeah, I've been hearing that the antidote bottles aren't enough to help clown. Kind of a lazy rework when you think about it, they just recolored the bottles and had it do the opposite effect.
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You're acting like using it to go around the map is pointless because you have to reload, but YOU choose when to reload. You could think of it this way: if you gotta get somewhere quick, you can get there faster for the clutch moments and deal with the whole 3 second reload after you give yourself breathing room. Here are some examples of when it could be helpful:
Tinkerer procs and you're across the map. Use bottles to cross map faster and keep them from completing it, perhaps even getting there fast enough to utilize your undetectable for a grab.
You hook someone, patrol away, and see someone coming from another direction going for the hook. They're too far away to hit them with tonic, but if you use antidote you may be able to get to the hook for a grab or at least to get in a hit before they run.
You see survivors healing in killer shack with nurses. There is no opening to throw a bottle in on your side of the shack. Use antidote to increase your chances of getting there in time to interrupt
Chasing a survivor through a cornfield who has a good bit of distance on you and is good at dodging tonics? Use a antidote since he's probably not going to double back for the benefit.
Basically, tonics are for area denial, anti looping, tight spaces and for dropping on the head of unsuspecting survivors when you know you can land the hit. Antidotes are for when you have to get somewhere in a time sensitive situation such as to contest a nearly completed generator, unhook, heal, escape or sabotage. You also use it when a survivor has broken LOS and is unlikely to double back. Also, each antidote cloud decreases travel time by .9 seconds, so if you use them effectively, all 4 bottles will get you somewhere 3.6 seconds faster, so even with reload time you shaved half a second off. Not much, but it could be useful. Its a very tactical change and i am excited about it
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Good job ignoring the other points I made
They are useless for map pressure because it barely gives you any extra distance
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Breaking pallets takes longer because you have to take 1.5 seconds to throw the bottle, which means any distance you would have gained from the speed boost after breaking a pallet is negated because of that extra time it take you to throw a bottle
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Gotta go fast
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Gotta go *slightly faster*
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This wouldn't work. Swapping bottle types isn't instant and you have to tap the reload button to swap bottles which will start the reload animation for a second so you get slowed for a bit after switching.
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1.5 seconds that don't matter in a pallet stand-off where the Survivor is waiting for you to make the next move. You need that time AFTER you commit to the action, not before while he is teabagging you waiting to see if you are going to respect the pallet or not.
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I didn't "ignore" your other points, I didn't touch on them because I don't disagree. Its not like its a world changing update, but the pont of your post was "is there any situation the antidotes are useful" so I gave my opinion. Way to be defensive for no reason. Did you want peoples opinions and suggestions or are you only happy with comments that 100% agree with you?
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So I'm at a very high level for clown, and know pretty much every current strategy and bottle placements on all maps, and I thought the antitode would be useless at first, but thinking and strategizing got me thinking that it might be extremely useful to predict throw ahead of a survivor if they are holding w and you'll get there at the time they are still running, and follow up with a pink bottle. It can be useful that way, but at strong loops I can see it being alright, but better off just using pinks.
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meanwhile the survivors are telling us that clown is now top tier lmao
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If you know bottle placements really well, he is already a B+ tier killer. People just chuck and throw and mess up bottles. Any high tier clown will tell you that he is ridiculously efficient at ending chases super quickly. The buff is not much, but it's alright.
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He's still hindered by god pallets. All he has going for him is that he's decent in a 1 vs 1, but if that's all you have as a killer then you need to be spirit or nurse for it to matter.
Go against a swf and they spread out across the map on gens and clown is useless against it. Plenty of people who are good with clown consider him low tier.
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I face full meta swf all the time as clown, and splitting up on gens hurts any killer. There is some pallets that are really hard to play around as clown, but most of the time it's break. The god window on one of the macmillian maps is extremely hard on him and disturbed ward main building is rough, but everything else is easy to play around most of the time. I keep most of the pallets that are dropped up, due to the fact it's rather simple to play around. If you don't believe me you can look at dbdstats. You'll find me on the downed while intoxicated top 50 I think or close.
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So I'm suddenly "defensive" and want everyone to be exactly like me. Why are you one this post if all you're trying to do is start a fight or something?
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Wow
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It needs to have an inactive period so that it can be thrown either at or ahead of the survivor without them getting the speed boost before Clown then passes through it.
You’re not planning ahead and not observing all the potential places the survivor could be heading.
I.e. you must be thinking too short range rather than long range.
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You wouldn’t pick one over the other.
You would use both.
A well placed Antidote and a well placed Flask of Bleach is going to be an insanely powerful combination.
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I have not played the PTB but I can hardly stand clown without reload speed or extra bottles, giving me only 1 choice of an addon that actually impacts their effectiveness. I typically go with bleach, sometimes larger gas cloud, or maybe intoxicated duration.
Negating dead hard doesn’t matter most of the time since you can swing straight at them with a bleach bottle and still score the hit.
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It’s actually more clever than you think.
It’s clear they were originally dealing with the conundrum of “how can we help Clown dominate better in chases by helping him catch up faster?”
They couldn’t simply buff hindered. That would affect Huntress add ons, and Freddy.
Do we really want a Freddy with buffed Hindered?
The Afterpiece Antidote solves that problem. I think what a lot of players can’t seem to wrap their head around is that BOTH are meant to be used to quickly close the gap on survivors.
This would be a key reason they buffed his reload speed. More overall bottles are going to be used during chases.
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the way i will play clown is the same way i play him now, but with faster reload, and hooking survivors faster with antidote... i think you can´t make it work in a chase properly, the loops are not designed for it.
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Each killer has their own version of hindered.
So buffing the numbers on clown doesn't effect huntress'(Pitifully low 3% vs clown's 15%) hindered add-on numbers.
So unlike legion with Deep Wounds Hindered can be buffed for clown without effecting other killers as they don't technically use the same debuff.
Plus any buff to Clown's hindered can just be tied to his intoxication debuff as to not effect others regardless.
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But if it didn't have the inactive period you wouldn't have to throw it ahead, you could throw in directly infront of you
Hey man just don't go around trying to start arguments and everything would be ok
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I have a few uses from the ptb
- throw it at a survivor point blank before you hit them instead of doing the same with tonic instead (why, because after the hit cooldown it should be active for a quick catch up and the tonic doesn't affect the speedboost from being damaged only slows for about 1 second after instead of 5 seconds of speed)
- throw it before you break a pallet, feather addons make this window wider but basically if you are forced to break a pallet throw it down if you can't land the tonic or do both
- if you have 2 bottles and plan to reload (right as a chase ends with a down) throw on before pick up for fast transport, then after hooking throw one in the direction you are going and reload into it for movement speed after reload without using one of the reloaded bottles
- use at loops boost one one side slow on the other can usually catch them out if you let the boost cloud fade before making a move
- use for mobility especially with duration
- use for tracking with cigar box
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Ok,but no survivor would ever leave a loop just to run into a sonic tonic cloud (unless they are moths i guess).
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What if a survivor is in front? The clouds expand over a wide area (about 7m)
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I think it's gonna be really good with bamboozle. Toss antidote through the window, vault and catch up with survivor. At least it will get jungle gym and shack pallets on the first loop
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The good news is, you don't have to use it if you don't want to, you will still have the faster reload.
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Scottjund has already proven it does nothing. You gain an extra 2.5m using it to traverse the map and throwing it at a pallet and then breaking is slower and loses you distance.
The update is a net nerf when you look at what was removed vs what was given.
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But no green or brown expansion addons
No exhaustion addon
No blurr addon
Makeup is ruined, cigar box is ruined.
So he is base clown with faster reload and only 2 addons that you would use. One being purple so you won't always have it.
Glad i didn't play him much.
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If the survivor is in front of you, you won't need to use a bottle
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Were talking about like 10 to 18m infront of you genius
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I wasn't trying to start an argument, I just put in a lot of thought to a response with my honest opinion and you were just like "wrong, didn't respond to my OP correctly". Seemed like someone who only wants to hear "you're right", which is frustrating
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Weird cause nowhere did I see the numbers 10 to 18 mentioned
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Lol no. You made a comment, I simply responded to it in a way you didn't like so you then tried to start a fight, which I don't appreciate
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The Afterpiece Antidote require carefull use for very marginal benefits and make you reload more often. Thats about it.
Like in the pallet exemple, if you are right in front of the pallet there is no point in throwing an Antidote at it, because the time to switch and throw, added to the time to break it will offset the speed boost. Now if you throw the antidote in advance before reaching the pallet you don't waste any time, but even then the speed boost remain minimal, to the point where you have to wonder if its really worth using a bottle for it.
Its also bad for map pressure for 2 reasons. First, a 10% speed boost for 5 second does not gain you that much distance. And second, the 2.5 seconds delayed activation of the Antidote make it awkward. You have to throw it pretty far away from you to get to the cloud when it activate, meaning any kind of wall or large obstacle make it near unusable.
Maybe if the Clown had more bottles by default or if the Antidote recharged differently it wouldn't be so bad. But asit is, using one of my few precious bottle to gain a couple meters now and then does not seem worth the time you are going to waste reloading even if its been made a bit faster.
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Clown will be the same. The worst killer in the game. Improving the worst a bit, is still the same. The worst.
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Alright, totally all me, you're not rude or anything. My bad.
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use it between loops to catch up
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I could play clown right now with the yellow reload add on. It doesn't magically make him A tier.
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Oh the irony
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Tossing it at a pallet before you break it should be a good use. I say should because every time I tried that trick, my afterpiece antidote releases afterpiece tonic gas for some reason.
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To me Antidote is weak and Clown is still addon dependent so honestly not many uses for it aside from just small trivial boost that still puts him in a position where he's overshadowed by other killers.
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Even if you can get it to work because of the bottle throw cool-down it actually makes you lose distance over just breaking the pallet and chasing like normal.
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I think the only thing he needs is one more bottle, of course you can use an addon for that but that would be the equivalent to using his reload speed addons before he got the reload speed buff.
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yeah it's for chasing, using it is the same as temporarily having 2 stacks of pwyf. It helps in a chase but using it for traversal is not that great so you use both of his bottles together.
This wasn't a net loss, we gained 2 things and lost one. we have even better chase capabilities and an addon that was almost required as base kit. what we lost was a addon that really only countered 3 of the 5 exhaustion perks.
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all of these are pretty garbage, because it gives you like 2,5m of distance, so its literary nothing and you have to waste a tonic for that so you will have to reload faster
if both tonics had separate charges and reload would make them both refil then it would probably be useful, sometimes even 2,5m can make a difference
but in this current state its just completely useless
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