General Discussions
General Discussions
Why do nurse/spirit's power hits count as basic attacks yet blight's and other killer's dont'?
Title. I don't understand why these two strongest killers in the game are allowed to the further benefit from m1 basic attack perks yet other killers are not allowed to, even though blight's and nurse's attacks function pretty similarly.
Comments
-
Personally I have no clue. Probably has to do with the weird power description
1 -
Blight's lunge has no collision and slides through object and can't control it as freely as other basic m1s so its kinda different if you look at it that way.
6 -
Perks. Rather than listing exceptions in the perk descriptions, they segregate killer powers individually. Those are defined by design decisions, but they tend to be conservative after the legion launch (when they changed the feral frenzy property making it not count as basic attack). Not having a power count as a basic attack is not necessarily bad, see Demo with STBFL.
1 -
Because Blight's not using basic attack when using his power. You can tell that just by the fact that he can barely turn
6 -
But neither is nurse, and spirit has an extremely extended lunge after phase.
5 -
I kind of thought about it like a hit using a channeled ability. so nurse's blink ends and then she hits and same with spirit vs blight or pig that attacks while during the ability.
0 -
That's true, but under those rules wouldn't nurse and spirits hits be different two because they have different mechanics.
0 -
Spirit and nurse both can instantly face any direction right after using their power. Spirit technically has the same lunge, she gets movement speed increase after using her power. Same as wraith
7 -
Spirit phases and then makes a basic attack after phasing. If she lunges, it is only boosted by a buff that lingers after phasing, to her actual basic lunge attack.
Nurse blinks and then makes a basic attack after blinking.
Blight performs a "Lethal rush" in which is attack is part of that ability and thus treated differently.
That and likely for balance reasons, be it you agree with them or not.
4 -
Spirit I could maybe get along with that, but then nurse's attacks are literalyl classified as blink attacks not normal attacks, which is shown when you get the score for those hits. Her lunge is also significantly reduced than normal lunges.
2 -
As I was saying before nurse can face any direction after a blink and the score event is for performing her basic lunge after a blink. Blight cant, his attack is different from his standard lunge.
0 -
It really isn't that big of a plus tbh. If they couldn't basic attack then they'd have no ways of using all those perks that apply on basic M1 hits.
And if they somehow had their basic attack and a secondary special attack that would be actually way too good for them as then they'd have a way of retaining STBFL stacks.
It's all good the way it is rn, Spirit and Nurse are fine. Well, actually people seem pretty unhappy with Nurse in terms of fun and Spirit could do with some add-on nerfs (Seriously, broken add-ons on an S tier killer?).
0 -
No sane person would want a spirit or nurse buff. Nurse needs bug fixes, not new mechanics.
4 -
I don't have a problem with nurse and spirit strength wise i just find that it's ridiculous that the strongest killers get an extra buff through this condition yet weaker killers aren't allowed this. Makes no sense balance wise to me.
1 -
It wouldn't buff them it would probably actualyl nerf them a bit because it would prevent the ability to use perks like surge and devour.
0 -
I meant that in response to part of what the other fellow was saying.
0 -
idk about Spirit but how do you expect the Nurse, who is slower than survivors, to hit them normally?
1 -
It is like Oni as well, when you go into rage mode your hits don't count as M1 even though you use it.
I never asked why so this is an interesting topic.
0 -
Because they lazy to do it
0 -
Because they are just m1 attacks, in technicality. Their abilities are mobility and subterfuge, not actual attacking. Blight's lethal rushes are specifically incorporated into his ability, and there are differences between it and his m1. Nurse's blinking lets her teleport, but her m1 button lets her attack. Spirit's haunting gives her incredible chase mobility, yet her m1 button lets her attack.
0 -
For Oni it might be the same reason as for blight: Their power's attacks lets them break pallets allowing them to be more aggressive at loops then normal attacks.
The same logic also applies to Demo who despite their shred just being a gimmicky lunge it also breaks pallets and doesn't count as a basic attack.
In fact is there even a single attack in the game that can break pallets that even counts as a M1 attack?
1 -
But wraith does, should wraith's not count as a basic attack?
I think the difference is that for nurse spirit and wraith, it is actually just a basic attack. With blight, it is a bit different and has different properties.
0 -
Nurse and Spirit still use basic attacks within their powers. Both powers are purely mobility and do not have any type of special attack.
Post edited by Ghost_Face_Main on1 -
eh... i guess it is because they have technically come out of their power to hit you where as all other killers are still using their power.
0 -
Same counts for Wraith, you also get surprise attacks. And Wraith decloak attack count as basic attacks as well. Still this is first using power, then lunge, for all 3 of these killers. The lunge is not affected in any way rather than movement speed (which can be increased by perks as well).
The difference to Blight is already explained. Legion for example also does not count as basic attack, you don't have a wipe animation after a hit, so there is a modification to the attack. If at all, I would question why Myers T3 attacks are considered basic attacks, as they have an extended lunge.
Not the lunge is increased. The movement speed is. Movement speed can be increased by power and perks, this is not "directly" altering the lunge mechanic. The lunge mechanic itself is a speedboost of x % for a duration of y seconds. As I said, Myers T3 extends the lunge duration. If the power increases the general killer movement speed, it does not change the lunge, the lunge just benefits from the speed. Other killers explicitly change the lunge or replace it entirely (like Shred or hatchets)
0 -
Because the Devs didn't have the idea of properly seperating attacks you got via powers and attacks you got via base gameplay til afterwards. If Nurse, Spirit and Hag were designed this year you can bet that Sloppy Butcher wouldn't be one of their best perks.
0 -
Spirit's lunge works according to mechanics. The range of the lunge is correlated to the speed at the moment of initiating the action and the Spirit retains her speed boost after de-phasing. The caveat is that if the killer has a default speed below 115 then it's temporarily set at that value when the lunge starts (with a notable exception detailed below).
In the end, the devs say it's for consistency, but there's obviously a case-by-case decision behind it.
Take the biggest offenders of them all aka Myers. In T1 and T3 he doesn't have a normal lunge, yet they count as basic attacks.
0 -
Idk why, but Wraith's Surprise Attack also benefits from being considered as a regular M1.
1 -
You can bet, but most likely lose. Legion Frenzy attacks counted as basic attacks for a long time, and they changed that for consistency reasons.
0 -
So, basically spirits post-phase dash is considered to be "out of her power" so it's a normal m1,like wraiths. Same with nurse, after she's done blinking it's considered to be "out of her power", if I had to guess. I'm not sure why blight's isn't considered a hit, I always thought it is considered a hit tbf. But killers that have different m2s (demo, huntress,ect,) are balanced around their m2 abilities. Imagine a huntress with noed hatchets lol.
I dunno why many are exceptions to this (blight), probably has to do with what I said about post-ability m1s. Since when blight m2s and then m1s, he's technically in his power since he has more movement speed.
But this is just a theory
0 -
Yeah, that's kind of my point.
0 -
Ehm... them you got my point wrong. I'm saying that they skipped these 3 on purpose, because they HAVE a clear idea of how to split basic and power attacks. I think pig dash was also reworked to be no basic attack anymore for example. And therefore I dont think they would make those 3 non-basic attacks if they were released this year
0 -
Every other attack that uses a power to get a hit is considered a secondary attack. That's supposed to be the logic. Hag, Spirit, Nurse and Wraith break that logic, and are coincidentally old killers that haven't been touched since the landmark Legion change.
They don't have a very clear idea, they have a very clear exception to the rule. One that shouldn't exist, given that it's buffing three of the strongest killers in the game.
Also, Blight. Same principle as the others, but Lethal Rush is a secondary attack.
0 -
This is because the developer's philosophy is not based on game balance or fun to play.
"Non-basic attack" is a poorly thought out decision that just limits the players.
0 -
That's supposed to be your logic. I made a pretty clear example of what the logic would be to count those three as basic attacks. And there were enough posts about Blight. Not the same: no hitbox to hit walls, ability to destroy pallets, reduced maneuverability. Clearly not a regular M1.
It is not poorly thought out, it is pretty well thought to be honest. But your opinion. This is not about fun to play? OK bring back sloppy/thana on Legion's frenzy hits or on Huntress hatchets, the killers that can spread damage the fastest of all killers. That were definitely fun times. Would love to see Surge on those chainsaw downs. Or how about Exposed effects being applied to killer powers? That would be awesome!
0 -
Nor is Spirit or Wraith: they are megaboosted in speed. Nor is Nurse: she's still in her power. Nor is Hag: She's still in her power.
0 -
As I said: your logic. The lunge is basically unaffected. As I also said. speed can be increased by several sources, that is not necessarily changing the lunge mechanic. We can go on ping pong on that topic. Both of us are correct, both of us are wrong. Probably they had the same discussion and had to agree on one view
1 -
God, I'd love it if Legion's Frenzy stabs applied perk effects again.
0 -
The lunge isn't basically unnaffected, it's speed curve is massively altered. That's a huge and important effect that should transform Spirit and Wraiths attacks to secondary. I could perhaps see your point with Hag and Nurse, but balance-wise it's still not right and they're still technically being affected by their powers and only got the hits directly because of them, even if the lunge is technically the same.
Logic is logic. The only way it shifts is if people ignore pieces of the whole for convenience. The Devs do this regularly to make their lives easier whilst pretending they don't. And I would absolutely be willing to bet that if Blight and Spirit had switched release schedules then Lethal Rush would be a relatively normal, if speed boosted hit that activates "basic attack" effects, and Spirit would have some wierd alternate attack when she comes out of her power.
0
