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We can't really be mad at the devs for not nerfing keys alongside moris
Think about it, how would you balance keys yourself in a way that is strong, but not too strong? I would be willing to bet that the idea you think of is not great.
A popular idea that I hear quite a bit is that we should allow it to only let one person escape per key and have a 3-second animation of opening the hatch. The problem with this idea is that it would still be incredibly powerful as all survivors would just run a key knowing they could easily escape.
I myself don't know any other rework ideas for the keys, but you get the point. The keys are very complex when you stop and think about it. Moris on the other hand were much more unbalanced and much stronger. Keys at least require the survivors to do generators.
The mori change was good for the game itself. Most killers who ran it only used it against survivors holding a key which created very unfun and unhealthy gameplay. Being tunneled off of the first hook only to be moried is worse because it can happen so much faster.
Was it the best change? Probably not. But it is a good change. If you are complaining about the change, you are probably a killer who relied on moris to kill survivor teams using keys.
Comments
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You have to understand, people aren’t upset that Mori’s got nerfed. People are upset that they didn’t wait to nerf Mori’s alongside with keys.
Instead of finding a proper solution for keys, they released the Mori nerf and left keys untouched. This has led to a rampant use of keys in lobbies (higher than I’ve ever seen before).
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Just make it so the hatch has a proper animation that takes around 15 seconds and can't be interrupted like totems and causes a loud noise notification allowing the killer to defend it.
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I thought I said this? I talked about the mori changes more towards the end, but I did say why we shouldn't really be upset at the devs for not nerfing the keys with moris.
I myself don't think this statement is true. The amount of keys in my lobbies has stayed the same, I have seen no difference.
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You are right, it was so hard they had to shadownerf moris out of the blue after 4 years but leave keys totally untouched.
I just insidious facecamp keys half the time because I don’t feel like dealing with them.
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It still has the chance of letting everyone escape though. It also just stalls the game, a survivor could keep baiting the killer over to the hatch while someone does a gen. Also, I think you should be able to interrupt the animation.
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It is not that bad most of the time as most people would have you believe.
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Almost like one of these things kept the other in check and now that it's trash the other one has zero counters now.
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It was, but it was very unhealthy for gameplay. You also don't have to rely on a first hook mori to win against a key user btw.
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Let’s see, half my games today have had a key. Including a hacking teleporting bill with a green key. I just got out of a lobby with 2 keys. But nerf moris.
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I mean the interruption part as in "if" you get chased off / interrupted then the 15 sec animation resets like a totem.
It would at least allow for actual gameplay from both sides.
Survivors can try and bait the hatch, the killer gets a chance to stop them and/or find them (if they just bait it).
That was just a quick idea which would keep the key strong but at least it would require some tactics to get away via the hatch with that change.
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Still doesn't change the fact they should of been dealt with together because lets be real, even you don't believe keys will get nerfed for at least another 6 months. Idk about you but I have no intentions of dealing with keys for a half year, been on break from this game for a month now.
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I’m telling you it’s gotta be close to half my games with a key. I can hardly join a lobby without seeing one. And they are not even being nerfed in the mid chapter? It kills my motivation to play the game
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Sure we can. They could have just made hatch spawn when the exit gates are powered if more than 1 person is alive to prevent the situations where killers are forced into a position where they can't sacrifice another player or if they do they have to watch the gens but also the key. It's a simple numbers change. If they weren't satisfied with that change then they could work on a more thought out rework while keys sit in that nerfed position. There is no excuse to just leave things as they are.
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Yeah, the devs are really worth their money. They becoming EA-lazy with releasing the same game each year.
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They could have at least changed the hatch spwaning rule to let it spawn if either all gens get done or 1 survivor is left and then sometime later they could have looked into changing the broken key and some addons
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They could've just added a condition where all gens had to be finished for keys to work.
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I would change it to not spawn in chests. No lucky break for Survivors searching chests (usually for the wrong reasons), and Killers can alter their set-up to possibly counter it (Franklin’s, hatch offerings, etc).
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The best change would be to remove them from the game entirely.
Yes, I said it.
REMOVE. KEYS.
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I am complaining mainly about the fact that devs couldn't wait and relese both nerfs at the same time. Since the more nerfs, the amount of keys in my matches increased by insane amount, making me enjoy (and play) DBD far less. Both changes to mories and keys are needed but they should have gone live at the same time so that the other can't be spammed before it's changes arrives.
Also the key changes don't need to be complex, there is extremely simple and good solution to keys that requires minimal effort on devs part, they just don't want to implement it either because they don't know about it or beacuse of some other illogical reason. Paladin made a perfect video on how to fix keys some time ago.
TL:DR for the video. Change the hatch spawn conditions into thse two conditions:
1) There is only 1 survivor left in the trial.
2) All 5 generators have been repaired.
Extremely easy and effective fix for the keys, it'd make keys thousand times less annoying to face and I'd even dare say actually fair. But I bet this won't be the changes we see once devs announce theirs.
It will be something ridiculous with possibly even unneeded new animations and stuff that in the end will only very slightly nerfs keys but let them still be as abuseable as they are now. I fear how bad it shall be.
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I dunno what u on about me and my friend escaped every match we used key in unless face camped( he got face camped twice even tho I was the one with the key lol ) it is OP, unless they ######### up bad 2-3 escape guaranteed if they're a team
Instead of nerfing it how about puting Franklins as base for every attack on every killer, not requiring a perk slot just hit and they drop their item
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The "all gens finished unless only one Survivor left" is really the best way of changing Keys to match what they did with Mori's.
If you're going for the four sac, or even a four Mori, and there is a Key you have to really juggle when you get people out of the game. If you're at three gens done and one Survivor out of the game and the Key is still in play and someone not holding the key is dead-on-hook it's really lose-lose. If you hook someone their second time a gen is probably going to finish, spawning the Hatch. If you didn't hook the person with the Key they may just Nope! out of the match right then. If you hook slash Mori the person dead-on-hook the Hatch spawns and the other two can just leave right then if the Hatch spawns next to them, which I have had happen to me on both sides and seen happen to others who play the game.
By making it so the Hatch only ever spawns when all five gens are done if there is more than one Survivor alive it pressures Key holders to actually do gens instead of just hiding off in a corner somewhere, only moving when they get their second crow and going off to tap a gen then skulking off to a different corner of the map to hide in until their second crow and repeat. I have seen people do this when I play Survivor and got tunneled out early, via Spectator Mode. Yes this won't work against a lot of perks, especially the ever popular Barbeque and Chilli (unless they are hiding in a locker), but not every Killer runs those perks.
On a final note, and not to have some what-aboutism going on, but a big factor in the Mori nerf that has a lot of longer time Killer complaining is that if a Survivor really don't want to play against a Mori they will just let themselves die on hook when they reach the second stage. And there is nothing the Killer can do to prevent that. And if even one Survivor does this them your Ebony Mori has been wasted. It's not so much a problem with the Ivory Mori unless everyone does it but often times as soon as the first Survivor does it the others will follow because they have even less incentive to keep playing. I think this could be soothed a bit if they removed the "active struggle" bit and just made the second stage passive like the first stage. I know a lot of Survivor Mains actually want that change themselves because of lag issues or they just find it boring or they have physical issues that prevent them from hitting a key over and over again in rapid succession or what have you. So if they did make that change it would be a boon to both sides, or at least a good bit of one side and all of the other.
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They could of just gave the keys the mori equivalent and say that you cant use them till all 5 gens are done. That way the survivors still have to finish their objective, the same way a killer goes about hook states to mori.
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I myself play at rank one for killer, and I can say for sure that the number of keys being used before the mori nerfs has stayed the same.
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That is a lazier decision than the mori nerf.
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This thread didn't go how op envisioned it
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That's like cutting off your nose to spite your face. You've dealt with the one key holder, but anyone smart enough will just genrush. So congratulations you killed one dude but let 3 escape, rather than potentially kill two or three people and get so much more out of it, and the last person escaped because they had a key.
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Just remove the hatch. It serves no purpose now. Keys can still be used for aura reading and therefore are as useful as moris.
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Those killers must have not known how to play killer that effectively.
Making franklins base kit is not the way to go, it still doesn't really solve the problem. It would also inadvertently buff hag.
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:\ yea was hoping to lay some neutral ground to invoke some thoughtful discussion.
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I mean we can be mad. Keys and Mori's have always been tied to each other. You see a survivor with a key? Bring a mori. The devs themselves have said that the first gens should go quickly because the killer gets stronger as the match goes on, to then have a key open the hatch and let everyone out kinda ######### over the killer. The worst part is they didn't even try anything. Not a a small nerf that they could reverse if it didn't work, legit nothing. They gut moris but don't even touch keys.
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Keys are fine.
Post edited by Gcarrara on0 -
I guess so. Kinda lame that the existence of moris is used as a counter to key users.
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Wanna explain how keys are fine or balanced, please? I would love to hear your argument.
Post edited by Gcarrara on2 -
Mori's pre nerf were unhealthy for the game. Keys in heir current state are aslo unhealthy. They were the equalizers to each other. They fixed on and didnt even attempt to touch the other, inexcusable.
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But the idea of the key is to escape.
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But that's what he wants to do. To the sound of it, he's been doing it and it seems like it's working out for him.
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Just seems like backwards logic. 5 people in a game so you can only control what one does(you) and influence the rest in a very minimal way, on paper and in practice it's not a very sound thing to do. Survivors tend to be altruistic(as they should be), but if one person finds out and they happen to be talking to another survivor, you're not really making it work out for you. Yeah no one escaped through the hatch but people escaped regardless.
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"The keys are very complex when you stop and think about it. Moris on the other hand were much more unbalanced and much stronger. Keys at least require the survivors to do generators."
They aren't that complex. And, no, Mori's are not much stronger and unbalanced. Survivors need to do gens, but the survivor with the key doesn't actually have to do any gens themselves. Killers have to find, chase, down and hook a survivor, usually multiple times, before they can Mori (I know there are exceptions).
Post edited by illusion on3 -
I used Moris in far less than 1% of my matches. That being said, I´m still upset about the way they implemented the change.
Old Moris cut off 1 hook basically, the new ones don´t cut off anything time-wise. Their only purpose is to circumvent a DS or save on the last pickup instead of the 2nd.
Your argument that Surivors at least have to do gens also applies to the Killer. For most of them, they had to win 4 chases against the Survivor before they could Mori them. Now it´s up to 6.
Also, since everyone expects changes to keys, 3/4 games are now key matches. It´s really upsetting that nowadays having matches without a key is a welcome exception.
The mori change was a good and healthy change for the game, but the timing and effect made it worse for Killers. Not because of the Mori change itself, but because of the absolutely massive key spamming.
Moris were stronger than Keys, but not anymore. Keys are just as unhealthy in their current form. To prevent this miserable key meta, they should have just waited till they had something ready for keys too.
The timing of the Mori changes caught the playerbase off guard, but just like with the instaheals back then they gave a huge headsup for the key changes. It´s like spitting in the Killer playerbase´s face.
Anything but an absolutely massive nerf to keys by tomorrow is a further insult.
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TL:DR
Didn't the exact same thing happen with tool boxes after they gutted ruin? That 1-2 month period we waited for the tool box nerf was a crappy time to play killer.
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Not really. Since the dawn of DBD I have always considered it a good trade of 3 gens for 1 kill. I been facecamping with wraith since 2017. And now I got Bubba to use? It’s a very simple decision. I don’t mind if the games go down to the wire if I can spite a key user.
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I don't know how you've entertained yourself for this long if you truly only do that.
I can't imagine you'll get much out of it come the new changes to matchmaking and rank reset
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You say that like it is a bad thing.
GET. RID. OF. KEYS.
Finish the match the way you are supposed to, instead of hiding with your BFF and waiting for your two teammates to die so you can cop out early.
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It wouldn't matter if the idea was "not" great; it couldn't be any worse than the simplistic, minimal effort they applied to the Mori. :) Instead of a nuanced tweak, they just changed a 1 to a 2 which was not the best choice for us. It simply didn't require any coding effort by them.
Keys should be done exactly the same way. They will not allow more than one person to exit through the hatch, and they will no longer open the hatch until the End Game Collapse or only one Generator remains. Problem solved. They will have about the same practical effect as the Mori now.
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I just tunnel key survivors now.
An easy fix would be to have keys disappear the moment they get dropped, either by dead survivor or by perk/add on. This would reflect their power and prevent the common handoff.
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I frankly don't care. The goal is to change behavior. If devs don't take keys out of the game, I will make you think twice about running one.
Seeing 3 survivors hatch out in a winnable game is ridiculous and happens often enough.
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Honestly, you kind of can. Not for immediately having an alternative available, but they could have just removed the ability to open hatch and doubled the purple key's duration with the promise of a proper rework down the line.
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well the bottom line should be, if you can't be killed early by the killer's offering then your simple item slot should never allow you to escape early. simple as that, work from there. It could be used to open the hatch back up after a killer closes it to trigger the EGC or after the exit gates are alrready powered which can help with poor gate placement rng sometimes. Anything else is unfair when an offering was rendered useless while an item becomes more powerful (and while being an item can be found within matches themselves abusing a number of perks in combination with a newer one allowing you 3 extra fishes for one even out of empty chests at a minimum) and can carry annoying addons on top of it while still being able to create an early escape even after reading the killers' or survivors' auras are exhausted on it's charges. simply. not. fair.
It is possible to make a loadout specifically for finding keys in matches and reusing chests for more shots at it, making it a high chance of finding one when combined especially with offering creating even more chests. You don't even need to visibly carry a key int he lobby to be a pita about them.
Any other change than being able to reopen it after the killer has closed it, combined with exit gates needing to be powered or there being 1 survivor left alive and killers need to quit enmasse this time or flood the survivor queues since the disruption it causes is gonna be the only way to get the devs to listen to you. There's a few ways to get people to listen toy ou, one is offering them a trade or a bribe, another is deceiving them, and the last one is forcing them to.
You've been at the point for a while as killers where you're gonna need to force them to listen to you, and threatening the bottom line (the cash shop) is the only way to do that and how that's done is making survivors wait too long to get a match to wanna buy costumes and auric or even play any more. I say time time right around when the Evil Dead game or Back 4 Blood releases this year, preferably the Evil Dead game due to it's enormous franchise pull once we get a definitive release date for it. Killers can single-handedly hold the entire playerbase hostage if enough of them were to quit at once, or even worse pile themselves onto survivor queues for the lulz. It's pretty clear if you sit and wait you'll keep waiting, you're gonna have to force some changes for once or accept the game is gonna suck for you until it's dead.
Post edited by SocialDistomancy on0 -
why I don't play much and Q times so long.
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