The Demise of an Idiotic Perk
The purpose of playing is to accumulate Bloodpoints, which we use to level up our survivors and get new perks, items and offerings. So if that’s the main purpose of our games, why is there a perk to make survivors drop their items?
Franklins Demise is a perk for players who are scared of survivors having items, nothing more. It rewards killers for playing poorly, if you can’t find a way to counter play keys, med-kits etc etc then I’m sorry, but you need to get good. I no longer bring items into my games, because whenever I do, the killer decides to bring FD. I’ve been playing for maybe 7 hours today, and I’ve played against nearly 13 killers that used this perk, across various (although dominantly red) ranks.
When will the developers nerf this perk? At the very least, you should be able to keep your item, but lose a certain amount of charges, or lose the ability to use it for a duration of time. That would be preferable to losing it all together. If killers can have power add-ons that survivors can’t counterplay, Iridescent Head and Tombstone for example, why can killers do that to us?
Thoughts on this vile perk?
Comments
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this perk is actually very bad. it doesnt really help you to perform better overall.the only good thing is that you can make them drop keys, which is fair to avoid survivors escaping trough hatch.
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You should just bring green keys to have them waste a perk slot.
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someobody playing serious would never bring franklins in the first place...
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When I play survivor, I don't bring any items in, so when a killer is running Franklin's, I'm happy to see they've wasted a perk slot.
I almost never play Franklin's as killer. I have tried a build recently on Ghostface pairing Frankiln's with Hoarder, which proved to be a great tracking combo in those matches, if a bit meme-worthy.
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After the mori nerf, a lot of killers saw a huge uptick in the number of keys in their lobbies. So, they started equipping Franklin's. Before the mori nerf, I very rarely went up against Franklin's when playing survivor.
This isn't killers' fault, this is happening because moris and keys weren't nerfed at the same time. Killers used to counter keys with moris, now they're countering keys with Franklin's. Maybe they're continuing to use Franklin's even without keys in their lobbies because they find Franklin's amusing, but I almost never saw it on any killer other than Bubba before the mori nerf because in most cases it's a wasted perk slot.
Post edited by TragicSolitude on31 -
Imo anyone that plays franklins is a complete #########, except if someone brings a key. Its just a dick move.
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In the interests of helping us git gud could you explain this key counterplay you speak of?
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Franklin's isn't really effective anyways. Once Survivors know you have it they'll set their items down in a safe spot so that the item doesn't disappear from being knocked off.
Especially with Keys which is one of the primary reasons people will run Franklin's. Though I have seen it run when there's lots of Toolboxes as well. I think the main issue with FD is that it isn't as effective on some killers compared to others. For example Hag is undoubtedly the best user of it since she can teleport hit and trap the dropped weapons.
Personally I think once Keys get reworked and hopefully toned down immensely there won't be so much of a reason to attempt to counter keys with a bad perk.
But yeah it sucks when you lose your item even with a white ward due to FD
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There are several counters to keys. Those are for example
- 4-man slug party at 5 gens
- Tunneling the key user out of the game early
- Franklin's Demise
As a survivor, the last one is the nicest option. You know, it's a risk to bring too many items into the lobby, and not having an item shouldn't ruin your game. Franklin's is fine and doesn't need a nerf.
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Someone has been having their key/maps countered lol...
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I do that sometimes just to see if they're in that mindset today. Sometimes I get multiple games in a row that all happen to have the same concept behind them, though I bet it's often from a perk change or just bad luck.
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if you can't find a counter to...
You're projecting so hard in this post. If you can't find a counter to Franklin's Demise then you should get good. Like how hard is it to double back to the item, pick it up and then place it somewhere off to the side of the map?
If you're losing games or even getting inconvenienced by Franklin's chances are you're a bad player who relies on items. Sorry but that's the truth.
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I've only seen it work on greedy survivors that waste time endlessly searching for there precious items.
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Pro tip from someone using franklin alot, let the key user drop pallet just as you hit and don't break the pallet, easiest way not to worry cause they won't be able to grab the key and escape by hiding the whole match
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I almost never bring items to the trial, unless i have an fixed objective, like a challenge to do. When I want items, I actually use my chest searching build and it does wonders most of the times.
About Franklin, it's been long since I really lost any item to it. If I know the killer has it, I always drop my item near a generator where I can have easy access later. If I'm carrying a map, I'll just do the scout early and get what I need in the first place and then it doesn't matter if Franklin's will take it or not.
Today you have 90 seconds at level 3 to take the item back. It's quite a while if the item is important.
If you brought a key, you could also bring a hatch offering and drop the key in the building in case you need it. And if you do not, just retrieve it in late game and go with it. At least the charges don't go away anymore before you use it. I don't know. I don't like Frankln's but you mostly can use it to fool a killer into your game. I've seen many killers care too much about items to the point they forget about their main goal.
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I'm curious to know what counterplay there is to be had with keys, besides knocking it out of someone's hands. Could you provide examples?
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Oh the true Scotsman fallacy. A real killer wouldn't bring FD!
You get slapped and drop your item you can go get it later. It doesn't even trigger for all attacks e.g. Bubba chainsaw.
For a killer against a loaded P3 lobby, in addition to disrupting the planned play style of the survivors it can be an effective anti-bully perk. Want to body block the hook, clicky clicky your flashlight? It may cost you.
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90 seconds until the item gets destroyed, 90 seconds. That is more than enough time to get your item back. This is one the worst perks for a killer. That is like saying UB should be nerfed because the killer did so much work downing the survivors.
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I always use spinning top on The Twins.. everyone and their mother wants to run Plunderer these days for free keys.. nah **** that.
don't need Franklin's.
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If you rely on items to the point of calling for the nerfing of perk that counters them, then, I dunno, maybe you're the one who needs to get good?
When I play survivor, I bring items sometimes, sure, but usually its a toolbox or medkit thats gone before the game gets too serious, so FD just isn't a big deal.
As killer I dont run FD, I counter keys with slugging, tunneling, or just plain letting them go, because keys are undeniably broken. They should remove keys and ebony moris from the game completely. (One use moris arent that bad imo)
So just... stop relying on items and learn to win with skill?
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I just see it as a dick move to cost people their items (except keys). If I bring a bitchin medkit, that can cost 16k bps. Then some loser Bubba m1s me and I lose. Its sort of bs. Where the survivor perk that unequips killers add ons? Just kidding, but its the same thing basically.
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Awww. What happened? Did you lose your skeleton key with milky glass and weaved ring?
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It's just an item.
Oh and you can counter it by dropping the item right before you get hit.
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It's just an okay perk on its own, at best the survivors make bad plays trying to go back for their hallowed blight lunchbox, at worst they drop their key in a safe spot to come back for it later. I've seen it paired with Hoarder for some fun meme builds though.
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I don’t agree that the purpose of the game is to grind bloodpoints for items and offerings. I fully understand grinding for perks but it’s still not the reason why we play DBD.
Franklins isn’t particularly strong and the idea that survivors can complain about killer perks is pretty entitled. In general every killer perk in counterable through hex or strategy.
I agree with you that some killer add ons are ridiculously OP such as Iridescent King / Iri Queen, and Iri Head. They genuinely make the match miserable. You can always DC when they bring those add ons.
killers usually feel bad when survivors DC whereas survivors usually gloat. I would say in general killers are more community minded than survivors are.
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I understand your frustration, but at the same time, its not like FD DELETES the item the second the hammer makes your spleen explode like a hand grenade. You just kinda... drop it. Sure you only have so long before the Entity consumes it, but you could just wait till hes in a chase and go back for your totally rad medkit. I doubt anyone other than a rank 18 would completely drop their current chase the second that medkit sized dot disappears from behind his field of view.
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We're actually crying about Franklin's Demise now? What the actual hell? How entitled can someone be to really think this isn't a waste of a perk slot? What now? We'll be calling out for nerfs on Beast of Prey? Or lightborn?
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I mean, whats the point of bring inFlashlight if u immuned with Lightborne?
Not mention Monstrous shrine is top tier and never get nerfed
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You're Not wrong, its just annoying af, wasting time going back looking for your item on the other side of the map, or if you've run the killer long enough and then been hooked its gone if you don't have a swf to pick it up and drop it for you.
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Imagine 9% faster hook stage in the basement? How dare the killer break the game this hard?
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What can I say other than thats the point of the perk? Its meant to be slow-down, and it does that just fine without being broken.
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Sounds Like somebody should go play minecraft instead LOL
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HEY KILLERS, DON'T USE PERKS THAT YOU HAVE BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE THEM. WHILE YOU'RE AT IT, LIVE YOUR LIFE PER MY INSTRUCTIONS.
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Tell me this post is a joke
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If I see 3+ med kits and keys I tend to run it. Why? It is fun. It can be be really fun to watch them make dumb plays to retrieve the item. I get that most really good teams, It’s probably a wasted perk, but oh well.
Items are really powerful. Oh well.
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The perk isn't broken but it evens the playing field a great deal for the killer for those who depend on items. For example Med-kits. If you remove the med-kit from a player hand, and they have to risk going back to collect it. One: wasting survivor time. Two: removed option of self healing if they do not have the self-care perk. Three: The item goes away after away when not collected.
Its a nice perk to have when a team of try hard flash lights come in and they did the last second switch (mind you this is very far in between). Or people running keys and maps. If I see a key, this leads to two things happening. Last second key brought in = no mercy and tunnel if they are not already playing like a potato. But they will be the first to die regardless unless someone dies for the team. Because screw you, your team is not leaving in the box.
Mostly if I bring it, its to counter keys, three or more flash lights just to annoy the survivors since really just time the downing of the player near a wall. Or if I am playing the Item Thief.
As for the items. You can either find them or bring them in. However, if the killer does bring in that perk. Not going to lie, it's only good for just that. So as a survivor, I would rather them bring in Franklins vs Play with your Food or other perks that can be more of a game changer.
Also as a survivor, I don't bring anything in so this never really bothers me much. It does suck when I find a goodie in a box and it gets ripped from my hands. But Hell I call that karma to myself XD
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Fun one to do is the Bubba Add on that knocks items from there hands when they get hit by the chainsaw. SO now you don't even need to bring franklin demise in now with Bubba. xD just learned that today. Was like O_o what the hell are his perks since I always play him with no add-ons
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Why the hell do Survivors say that EVERY Killer perk is "a perk that rewards a Killer for playing badly"?
Seriously, I hear this stupid claim with Ruin, with NOED, with BBQ, with anything Survivors don't like.
Enough already. This phrase is THAT close to going on a Jerkward Survivor Bingo Card.
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The devs have already said they like the effect of Franklins Demise. Pretty sure I even heard Mathieu say something like "too bad" during a Q&A when someone asked about Franklins.
If you don't want to lose your item, then don't bring any. Problem solved :)
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Franklin's demise should really only destroy items if either the survivors don't care/make bad mistakes to waste that 90 seconds, or the killer is already dominating pretty hard. It's more of a time wasting perk than item destroying in most cases, like having a hex that isn't actually a problem but you convince the survivors it is
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You must enjoy 30 minute queues man. I on the other hand, don't, and once they push 15 minutes I've forgotten I've even queued sometimes and came back afk and even dead by the time I remembered. Since I won't sit and stare at a lobby for 15-20 minutes. If it happens a second time in anight I quit the game for the night, the main reason I haven't played much until yesterday and today are the queues are boring. They don't need to reach guinness record levels.
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You can't counter keys. Why is that even in your list?
Hook survivors, but don't tunnel, and pressure gens, oh and be on the lookout for the random key in a chest.
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That is right boy. The entity and me want your items and you best hand 'em over If you don't wan camped.
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:)
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Just hop in a locker, problem solved 😂
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I disagree, as Franklin's Demise has strategic value to it in multiple ways. Survivors tend to value the items they bring in more than any they can collect from a chest in the trial/match (more on the chests later), be it a simple medkit or an ultra rare key/map, FD dropping it creates urgency to retrieve it, and that's something the killer can rely on. This was made all the more urgent with the addition of the 90 second timer before the item gets destroyed for good, and some killers can perfectly take advantage of this such as Hag, Trapper, and Pyramid Head, who can trap the fallen item(s) and force the survivors to give away their position when they try to retrieve it. In PH's case this is particularly cruel since he can cover the item with one of his trails of torment, giving survivors the sadistic choice of either retrieving it and getting tormented or letting it disappear, essentially though all 3 of these killers not only knock the item out of the survivors hands, they take them hostage.
Currently the most broken item in the game is Keys, which have the potential to reward one or more survivors with a 5k BP escape no matter how poorly they played. Being that the only ways of preventing this escape are:
- knocking the survivor to the ground so they can't use the key,
- knocking the key out of their hand with Franklin's Demise,
- or shocking them with doc to prevent interactions with the hatch...
The easiest and most universal choice to all killers should be obvious. Killers who bring in this perk against survivor teams with items do so because survivors who bring in items often have a build and a plan to go with them. It's unfair to say that a killer who uses FD simply fears items and aren't good at the game, without also criticizing the survivors in the same ilk for feeling they can't win a match without bringing in said items in the first place. Playing around flashlights can be tricky enough as it is, but how exactly does a killer play around 6 second healing time medkit builds, Brand new part, or a map that shows the hatches location? I've already mentioned the only methods for beating a key, and surmised that FD is the easiest and most universal way, but while the killers have other perks like Overwhelming Presence, Coulrophobia and Lightborn to deal with the other items, those all rely on the conditions of either the TR's size, or the survivor using the item against them in their presence. They do nothing unless those conditions are met, and survivors can very easily play around all of the anti-item perks, including FD.
What are the weaknesses to FD you ask? Simple:
- You can always collect another item from a chest at any time during a match if you lose the one you brought in
- Dropping the item yourself.
- Jump in a locker before the killer can hit you.
The first is a no-brainer. Unlike killers, survivors don't actually have to rely on the bloodweb at all to gain items. They can pickup items dropped by dead teammates, or they can search chests for new ones. While the Chest searching option is more random than the bloodweb, It's recently become a lot less so with the buffs to perks like Plunderers Instinct, Ace in the Hole, and even the newly added Appraisal, which increase the odds of getting really good items. So if the killer destroys your item with FD, you have a plethora of tools at your disposal to counter this and possibly gain something better than what you brought in.
The second is so laughably over powered against FD, I'm still shocked it hasn't caught on. If you're confused, don't worry...You read it correctly: Drop your item. If you do this, then the item will not get devoured by FD, and you can pick it back up at any time for usage when you need it. This weakness to FD renders it as a COMPLETLY WASTED perk slot for the killer. Sure, with FD's tertiary effect, the killer can see the items aura, and possibly take advantage of it if they are Hag, Trapper, or PH, but otherwise it's completely safe from FD's Destructive Secondary effect. Some examples of how to use this:
You bring in a key, but get it knocked out of your hand with FD? Well then... pick it back up, stash it somewhere you trust to leave it, and return to get it when the hatch spawns.
See the killer hit one of your buddies, and their flashlight hits the floor? Drop your own item, pick their flashlight up and drop it again where they left it.
The third is a simple method that forces the killer to grab you instead of making you drop your item with a hardy slap, but this is conditional. If you aren't on death hook, and are 1 hit away from being downed, by all means, hop in the nearest locker to keep your item. Otherwise it's basically a surrender to the killer, and unless you brought in a white ward, it won't allow you to keep your item anyway.
So OP... Knowing this now, where does that leave your Opinion regarding this "vile perk"?
Do you Still believe killers who use it are bad at the game? That it needs to be "Nerfed"? That It defeats the purpose of making bloodpoints to collect items?
I'd really like to know, Because from where I'm standing, it's a simple strategic perk that provides a decent counter to most OP items that survivors feel they need to bring in to achieve a win, but it's far from being worthy of your or anyone's revulsion. Honestly, the counterplay to FD is so ridiculously in the survivors favor... I cringe whenever I see posts like this. The only thing Idiotic about FD is how easily it's rendered a wasted slot.
Edit: neglected to mention the locker counter
Post edited by TWiXT on3 -
I like using Franklin's against 4 flashlights or keys. But Franklin's is not very useful if the survivor doesn't have an item. I mean there is a counter play and that's dropping the item somewhere safe or dropping it before getting hit. It used to just take charges off but that wasn't very helpful. So they buffed it and should stay that way imo.
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"if you can’t find a way to counter play keys, med-kits etc etc then I’m sorry, but you need to get good"
Umm...the counter IS franklins. Theres very few other ways to counter these items. Keys there is no counter. Medkits sloppy does very little and coulrophobia is a terrible perk. You can't even switch killers to plague for example anymore. You can use perks like pop or ruin for toolboxes but the idea of toolboxes now is that you pop the gen before the killer can even stop you.
You're complaining about the counter to all these items, then moan that you don't wanna bring items anymore because those mean killers are taking them away and then you say its everyone else that needs to get good lmao this is the kind of survivor the game is catered towards. Pure entitlement.
As survivor i dont bring items anyway because I dont need them. Now who needs to get good?
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The killer shouldnt even get perks or addons, they are so OP they shouldnt get any modifiers in their games at all. But keys arent doing what they should be though. So we made the hatch spawn after 1 gen is completed, this should ensure all survivors escape
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you'd be surprised, keys still haven't been nerfed so a lot of people run franklins if they see a key, regardless of what rarity it is
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