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Much Ado About Spirit
I think this whole upsurge in no-counter-to-spirit whines is really telling about the community. You hardly heard a peep about spirit before Undying was getting nerfed, and now all the sudden Spirit is OP so long after her release. You know what the truth is? You just want something to complain about. Its our fault this game is going so rapidly downhill. Why don't we all just... get good?
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Actually Spirit has been getting complained about for almost a year now lol
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RIght? Where's OP been? Spirit is equivalent to very easy mode for killer mains, their go to for when they're struggling to win.
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Spirit has been talked about since release. She's definitely the most hated killer in the game.
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This right here lol,
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And what did everyone say about her when she was released? Do you remember?
That she was trash. Worst killer in the game. Then some people got good with her. Oh, nerf spirit.
Spirit is the easiest of the top 3 or 4 hated killers, to counter.
Stop being predictable.
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Spirit is one of the few killers who can put good swfs down, so yes they complain about her. They dunk on basically every other killer in the game but once they find a good Spirit they have to actually be good at the game to win and they don't like that. She has plenty of counter-play, people just don't like that they have to change play-style and that chaining overpowered tiles together don't necessarily work on her.
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It's not just SWF complaining about Spirit dude, most people complain about her because if your in a chase with her and she decides to stand still it's a 60/40 on whether you guess correctly or not if she's phasing, and that's not taking into account that you might be injured and at that point your probably screwed.
Most SWF and solo Survivors I've seen are completely fine with the other high tier killers like Oni, Blight, Nurse, Huntress, and Hillbilly. If you don't mind explaining to me, what's spirit's counterplay? Because from what I've seen most of the "counterplay" is just guessing or being "unpredictable" and isn't consistent. Using Iron Will is nice against spirit but using a perk just to counter 1 killer out of 22 killers isn't consistent and can be countered by Stridor. Being "unpredictable" only kind of works if your healthy and even then if your in a grassy area or the spirit has good headphones it won't work out well.
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Flashlight at her if she stands still, then you'll know. Its literally that easy. If you dont have a flashlight and see her stand still, just hold w away from her and get a ton of distance. Its literally that easy. Sure, she might be phasing after you, but you can use perks like deception and quick and quiet to get more distance. That or stop and crouchwalk after breaking line of sight with her husk.
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The problem with this game is the sweats on both sides. When you first start killer, spirit and freddy feel nice because you can get wins even though you aren't very good. But later on, there are players who get the skills to win and still use these killers because they are easy mode. At least if you're a nurse that can kick everyone's ass you earned the right to do that, although once you're that good its gotta be boring to steamroll everyone. Same thing with 4 man swat squads. Meta survivor perks are fine until you get a 4 man bully squad that uses them to try to get in your face and humiliate you. Its the super try hards using every advantage at their disposal like this is esport olympics that are the problem, these swat squads are rare but most high rank killers bring nuclear weapons to the table because they fear running in to one. Its a pretty sorry situation all around. Everyone needs to just chill tf out.
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I never struggle to win chases vs a spirit, even a good one. Sure I lose sometimes but that's the nature of the game, you don't always win. I don't consider myself a god tier survivor either, so if I'm not amazing at survivor maybe the people complaining about her just aren't as good as they think they are...?
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This is the cycle of survivors, whine a whole bunch about something new, get it nerfed, then circle back to old things you hate, get it nerfed, by then something new comes out that you don't like, cry for nerfs.. restart
Compound 21 -> Billy -> Undying -> Spirit
and that's only like the last 3-4 months
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That's assuming you have a flashlight, are in a safe spot to flashlight her, and can actually flashlight her. If all the requirements are met then if you actually try and blind her and it doesn't work, then you've shot yourself in the foot because within that time the Spirit will probably appear next to you shortly after.
If the spirit is actually standing still and you decide to hold W against her then your probably also screwed unless your nearby a pallet or a strong loop since most spirits will use movement speed addons and will catch up quickly, and even without the movement speed addons she'll still catch up to you.
That's assuming you have deception and or quick and quiet and even then there are still many situations where those perks wont work at all. If you use deception it might work but after the Spirit falls for it once they won't fall for it again if they have more than one braincell. Quick and Quiet can work against her but you'll have to be in the healthy state or using Iron Will (Unless she has stridor) and even then the spirit will usually be able to see the scratch marks through the window in time for them to realize what's going on. Also, I already said this before but using perks just to counter 1 killer out of 22 other ones is extremely unreliable.
If you break line of sight with the Spirit and decide to stop, your gonna get found out real fast thanks to the breathing sounds or if you decide to crouch walk the spirit will see the grass move and hit you.
Spirit does have counterplay, all killers do, but the main difference is that Spirits counterplay is mostly just guesses and 50/50's. And before anyone says, no I don't want all the killers in the game to be extremely loop-able M1 killers with no power, I just want to have a fair chance to outplay the killer.
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An aside: everyone says spirit is easy, but while she isn't mechanically difficult like Nurse or Huntress, she requires a lot of game knowledge to use well, meaning you have to already be good at the game to really make use of her power the way Survivors complain about.
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If you find yourself never struggling to win a chase against a good spirit, then they aren't a good spirit. If you've ever gone up against a good spirit, they're on Nurses level of unloop-able since most of them will be using really loud volume or good headphones to hear even the slightest movement of grass or breathing.
I did forget to mention this but most people that aren't complete survivor mains don't want spirit to have a flat out nerf, that probably wouldn't solve all her problems, they just want her changed so that survivors will have an equal opportunity to outplay her at a loop just as the killer can do to the survivor. Blight is the perfect example of this, he's a *very* powerful killer in the right hands but many survivors absolutely love him, including me. Wanna know why? Because despite all his strengths there's still a good amount of counterplay with him which leads to his chases being very interesting, intense, and most importantly, fun and fair.
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The fact you said a god tier Spirit is as good as a god tier Nurse tells me you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. A god tier killer of any kind is likely to wipe your entire team unless you are a diehard swf but a god tier Nurse? No, nothing comes even close to a Nurse who can land her blinks consistently, the #2 killer (most say Spirit but I honestly put it a tie between her and Hag) is leagues below Nurse. Sorry friend but you don't seem to understand what you are talking about. I'm going to do you a favor and stop responding to you, have a good day.
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I NEVER said that a god tier spirit =god tier nurse, I said that a god tier spirit is on nurses level of unloop-able meaning that you will go down quickly. Originally I was going to say Deathslingers level of unloop-able but realized that he can be looped much better than spirit and I had no one else to compare her to other than nurse. That doesn't mean that Spirit is on Nurses level, what I meant to say was that on the much higher levels of play she's borderline unloop-able.
I asked you what counterplay she had and you didn't respond to that question, and you have literally no other claims other than "I did fine against a "good" spirit which means that she's completely fine!"
If your gonna say that Spirit isn't op, next time actually bring valid claims please.
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Have you been on the forums for the past year? There's 5 million threads about spirit.
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Oh, Spirit is totally fine. How dare these entitled Survivor mains demand a killer who literally stands still at a pallet and gets a free down with zero effort demand a counter-play. Such a nerve!
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I didn't hear a single person say she was trash. And its hard not being predictable with something you can't even see.
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That's not true. When Spirit was released, the general consensus was she was on the weak side. Spirit actually received some buffs during her release period.
It wasn't until a little while after that people realized Spirit was a top tier killer.
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Are you kidding me?
Dude, go back and look for posts when she first came out.
And, don't go to predictable loops. You can't just run to a very obvious pallet or pathing.
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How ridiculously strong spirit is was already seen in the ptb period, you didn't get anything done and everyone just died.
Back then spirit was completely silent when phasing and you really couldn't play around it, so I guess something has improved
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That's wrong. A lot of people didn't understand how strong Spirit was during her release.
Players really did complain about her being weak.
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Actually, she was trash upon release. It took them 2 sets of buffs to get her to her peak and then a couple of minor nerfs (that then birthed the infamous MDR+Yakuyoke combo so I'm not even sure that Yakuyoke was nerfed lol) takes us to where we are today.
Ever since the 2nd set of buffs people have been complaining, however a lot of those complaints were overshadowed by the 3/4 blink Ruin Noed Nurse that used to plague red ranks. When Nurse was changed those complaints finally got to see the light of day.
People have been complaining about her since 2-3 weeks after her release. It doesn't take much to get good at Spirit either.
OP, I don't know where you've been but give me that rock because I wish I could ignore things as well as you.
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No she wasn't trash when she came out. That's what everyone said. She needed tweaks, but was far from trash.
I know. I have mained her at rank 1 since her release.
The pray beads and collision had to go tho. And it must take something to be good at Spirit, because we curbstomp Spirits all the time. I feel she is a bit overrated. We saw some of that in the tournament
God loopers can still loop the ######### out of her. She has a cooldown. Can still get gen rushed. Perhaps a good pair of headphones does really make a difference, but I just have a 30 dollar pair so I would not know.
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I think they sell this type of rock at Home Depot, but you can't have this one. Its mine. Go get your own.
As for the complaints, this post originated from the fact that, before the recent Undying nerfs, I hardly saw a post pertaining to Spirit being OP, but tons about Undying, now with the Undying changes, the Spirit complaints are everywhere.
And of course its also DS whining (its not that op) and other such nonsense. The original post takes the recent "I hate Spirit" pandemic and uses it as an example as to why this game can't have nice things: because EVERYONE whines, myself included.
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thats freddy actually spirit is the 2nd option for killers on what to go to for easy to play wins
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Well stated OP.
And way to shine that mirror right back at us.
You are not wrong.
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This. Right. Here.
I explained this a hundred times to one of my friends but he doesn't want to listen. "Spirit OP end of story"
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people cry about things just to cry. Spirits and nurses are probably the only killers that can give a sweaty swf a challenge, all other killers get stomped hard.
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Neither spirt was OP nor was ruin/undying.
Strong yes, OP not at all.
The problem is many people refuse to adept to a new playstyle, especially when they have to do a little more work.
Just playing a bit outside of the box is very hard for a lot of those pea brains unfortunately
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Yeah, as a Spirit player, please do these things. It makes it so much easier to down you because I can hear your footsteps. Or your breathing if I'm in a bad mood and want to spread the pain with Stridor.
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Spirit has been hated since around the time of the last Nurse nerf, when every killer that wanted easy wins but found that Nurse suddenly took skill jumped on the Spirit bandwagon and suddenly all the survivors started hating Spirit because, well, she steamrolls nearly every trial with little in the way of effort and no real counterplay because the survivors are taking blind guesses as to what she is doing. Surprisingly enough, people don't like playing against that kind of killer.
I remember back in the days of Prayer Beads, oh dear... That was peak Spirit hate right there, damn it was bad, and it was even worse playing against her... Then they removed her collision and nerfed Prayer Beads, thankfully, but the hate didn't die down that much and has been steadily burning along because the Devs never really addressed her core gameplay issues.
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Spirit stinks on ice!
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Pretty much this. Areas that have little-no counter or provide hand-holding for players need to be nerfed or removed. She is supposed to be a high-risk high-reward Killer, but the risk factor is lower than it should be.
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Spirit's been the object of complaints for years. It's just that since more people are playing her, people come across her more.
Really, there is rarely a solid counter to spirit as there is to other killers. That is precisely because you can't predict what you have no information on. I played spirits to cruise all the way to red ranks, and all I had to do was observe survivors and cut them off. Whenever I play against spirit, I can try to deceive them with iron will, spasmodic walking, etc. but it will always result in the spirit reappearing near me, since there's no way I can completely erase the cues of my presence. The simple solution, I think, is to give survivors a tiny bit more information as to where the spirit is. Perhaps the phase emission sound can become directional and proportional in distance, for rudimentary trilteration.
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Is there really an uptick in Spirit whines?
I don't see any on the front page right now.
Spirit whining was all the rage from around 2018 to 2019. You could barely click on a topic here back then which wasn't about Spirit being OP. It's why she got nerfed.
This really is all cyclical. Around the same time frame everyone else who wasn't whining about Spirit was also whining about DS. Then it also got nerfed.
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Okay. I just started playing the game after taking around a week off.
Now I get why there are more Spirit topics (well not really there's not that much). A lot more people are playing Spirit again. I just had 6 matches 3 of them were Spirit. The other 3 were a Blight, a Huntress and a PH. I am guessing that killers are dusting off their Spirit game now that Undying is on the way out. (or because Undying is now going to work better with Devour Hope).
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Ah...Ok? As much as I can't really remember anyone, not even once, saying she was bad, she is not even close to being one of the most counterable killers. At all. If you want to have a chance of countering her, and mind you, I said a CHANCE, you need a perk (Iron Will). You don't really counter Spirit, it is the killer that makes mistakes. Cause, you know, you can't really counter what you cannot see. Not reliably. And no killer should ever be countered by a perk alone.
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pretty much everyone complained about billy’s addon not his base kit.
there’s a reason he took 4 years to get nerfed because survivors didn’t want that.
and tbf compound 21 was way too strong for an addon
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Wait really?
You need iron will against spirit?
Damn, than I've been doing it all wrong all the time because I never run iron will.
I was wondering why I escaped so much against her 😂
There is much you can do against her, the only problem a lot of people make is that they keep doing the exact same thing over and over again.
And then complain, reeee spirit has no counter play reee.
Mix things up and get in the head of spirit and you'll do fine.
Yes she is hard, but nowhere near as OP as many say.
She is only OP if you refuse to adapt to a different playstyle.
just as with ruin/undying, you need to adept and approach things a bit differently.
But unfortunately many lack the skill to adept or refuse it (or both), and than whine about perks and killers being OP.
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Do tell us how to outplay a Spirit then, oh God of Survivors. I am sure you got this game all figured out and have a 100% escape rate with perkless survivors.
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But i remember. When a new killer comes out, there are nearly always 2 Topics: "Killer is op, he needs a nerf", and "killer is bad, he needs a buff". Both steam from the killer being new and people dont know how to play as or against him.
The problem is that noone ever gives a solid definition of what counterplay actually is.
Should a survivor be able to always handle the killer in a 1v1 situation, in a 4v1 game? I think not.
Yes, spirit can´t be looped, but she can be juked, i do it again and again if i play with her. yes, i often her thats just the average spirit, but you cant with a top spirit, and that might be true. But whenever it comes around balancing around top players, that is usually marked as a bad idea, so i dont understand why spirit is different.
I think a lot of complains come from the fact that a lot of survivors only like the chase aspect of the game, and thus hate killer that have an upper hand in this part of the game, and ignore that there are other parts as well.
I actually like the fact that you have to play vs different killers in a different way, that one works with looping, from the other one you have to hide. But a lot of players dont.
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You already said it yourself, things that are part of threads opened before or not much later a killer's release/PTB aren't exactly something that you should be considering. Hiding is only a relative part of this game anyway, as there is really no way to hide properly. Someone that has at least some game awareness will find you, sooner or later. And the game is only meant as a 4v1 in the sense that the killer needs to kill 4 people. Other than that, he will find them, hunt them, tunnel them and kill them in a 1v1 scenario. So yes, if the survivor knows how to play, he should be able to counter the killer, even if he decides to play WITHOUT perks. Every single killer should be counterable without perks or items. You can disable the Trapper's bear traps, you can crouch and avoid the Hag's traps activating, you can look around for the Wraith before he comes onto you, you can pre-drop pallets to stop the Clown (and another thing that should not be there for killers is the ability to mindlessly spam their power), you can start moving in the opposite direction as soon as the Nurse starts powering her blink. Spirit can't be seen, can't be heard (unless you have decent headphones) and therefore, can hardly be predicted. Hell, you wouldn't even know if she was vaulting or not, back in the days. As much as you can get into a Trapper's trap over a corner, it doesn't feel unfair. Having a killer get to you based solely, or prominently around the fact that she can't be heard, is pretty much like it would be if you had a killer that already started the match in Bloodlust 3, without ever losing it. Sure, it's fine to have different playstyles and counters to different killers. But they have to be a thing, in the first place.
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Right? Its almost like most Survivors won't be happy unless every Killer can be dealt with the exact same way. Entity forbid that they be forced to develop less predictable tactics.
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Hmm why do I sense a lot of salt here? 😂
Where did I say I have a 100% escape rate, where did I say I don't use perks and when did I say I'm a god survivor? 😂
But if you must know you can drop a pallet while she's phasing than slow vault back over.
Huge change that she will be on the side where you were vaulting from, next time do the same but walk away.
Drop a pallet from the side you were running from and run back.
Then you got your basic looping like with all killers.
Remember when she was phasing and don't be stupid and think she's phasing right away again as soon as you drop a pallet.
Like I said, mix up your tactics do 1 thing then the next time do the opposite, or do the same thing twice and than the opposite.
It is not as hard as you think or pretend it to be.
Exactly they start crying after the first match on the day a new killer is released.
Like why not play a bit more and test what works and what doesn't, that is the only way to get better.
But precisely as you said, the want to be able to see the killer so they can loop them easily and don't need to use a bit more braincells.
Mark my words, I'm very sure there will be a lot of survivor mains who start crying how "OP" the new wrait is gonna be.
I'm very confident that on day 1 there will be a lot of crying posts here on the forums 😂
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