Hag Rework Idea
So, apologies in advance to the very few amount of players that main Hag. She cannot stay the way she is, her power is incredibley uninteractive and her gameplay is lazy.
In order to remedy this, I have designed a new rework that would keep her identity in tact, but make her an actual interactive trapping killer. Here it is:
Hag:
Traps no longer allow Hag to Teleport.
Triggered Traps glow Golden on the floor for the duration of the alert.
The Survivor that Triggered the Trap is revealed via Killer Instinct for the duration of the Trap.
Triggered Traps afflict Survivors with the Bewitched effect.
Bewitched Survivors experience reversed controls for 30 seconds.
If a Bewitched Survivor interacts with another survivor, they pass the Bewitched effect onto them for an additional 5 seconds.
Traps have a 3m Radius.
Hag can only place 7 Traps.
Traps do not recycle.
Traps cannot be placed within 20m of one another.
Traps cannot be placed within 12m of a hooked Survivor. Traps previously placed nearby will be destroyed if a Survivor is hooked there.
Devour Hope - gain a token each time a Survivor is hooked up to a max of 3 tokens; 1 token gain 2% Haste effect for 5 seconds after hooking a Survivor; 2 tokens gain 3% Haste effect for 5 seconds after hooking a Survivor; 3 tokens Survivor suffers with Exposed effect. Survivors gain a notification if hit during the killers Haste effect.
Mint Rag - Replaces the Bewitched effect with the Fogged Mirror effect. Fogged Mirror flips the survivors FOV causing them to see falsely. Triggered Traps glow Blue.
Scarred Hand - is now Common Rarity and replaces the Bewitched effect with the Phantasms. Phantasms have collision; increase available Traps by 3; gain 150% bonus bloodpoints in the Deviousness category; gain 100% bonus bloodpoints in the Brutality category.
Waterlogged Shoes - increase available Bewitched Traps by 2; reduces the Bewitched effect by 10 seconds; Slightly increases duration of a Triggered Trap; Slightly increases Trap setting speed.
Pussy Willow Catkins - Triggered Traps cause the Hemorrhage status effect for the duration of Bewitched.
Willow Wreath - Triggered Traps cause the Survivor to experience colourless vision for the duration of Bewitched.
Rusty Shackles - All placed Traps glow and reveal Killer Instinct of Survivors within a 12m radius when a Trap is Triggered.
Granma's Heart - Gain a 2% Haste effect for 4 seconds after placing a Trap; slightly decreases setting speed.
Disfigured Ear - Gain the Undetectable status effect while walking through a Triggered Traps radius.
Dead Fly Mud - A Blackhole effect is emitted from the centre of the Triggered Trap which pulls everyone within 5m towards it.
Dragonfly Wings - A Blackhole effect is emitted from the centre of the Triggered Trap which pulls everyone within 5m towards it; a survivor caught in the centre is Bound for 10 seconds.
Dried Cicada - A Blackhole effect is emitted from the centre of the Triggered Trap which pulls everyone within 5m towards it; a survivor caught in the centre is Bound for 10 seconds and suffers from the Broken status effect for 20 seconds.
Comments
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I didn’t read that because you said you wanted to keep her identity, yet take away her transport ability? If that’s your idea rework her whole power, don’t allow to place traps and not teleport. The whole point of the killer is to pop up on the survivor instantly. You should think of a totally new thing instead of reworking her traps
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Hag needs no changes, she is by nature not fun to go against but she isn't op but is strong enough to be kinda viable. However you don't just change killers for being unfun to go against that isn't how you balance a game.
yeah, as long as her traps work the way they do you can't improve hag without giving her a new power.
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Also from reading this rework it is pretty bad, 20 meters between traps? that is ridiculous and also im pretty sure people will hate reversed controls way more than how she works and also just that whole power idea is WAY more lazy than how she is because you place a trap and that is it. traps not recycling is also dumb it's your power and since this does nothing to help you in a chase really if survivors can play well with reversed controls then you just don't have a power.
this would make hag super unviable and as said you don't change killers because of dumb reasons that are not balance related otherwise you should probably instead just complain about the king of a lazy power that which is freddy.
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No one said she was op lol and yes, a mechanic that is not enjoyed by the vast majority should be changed, that's probably one of the best reasons to change something XD
In what way is a trap based power that requires chasing to capitalise off of them being triggered lazy?
Reverse controls would not be complained about nearly as much as current Hag who in your mind should stay the say she is. They may be frustrating if you cannot get used to them quickly? But people moan about Nurse ignoring the comventional loop game because they haven't bothered to get used to how to actually counter her. I've had experience with reverse controls in other games, and they are a very exciting mechanic.
20m for a Trap would be needed for a mechanic like this, it would be busted to allow Traps to be mear together like they are now, also, they need to be at so little resource and only be given back when triggered. If she could be like "oh, no one is using this tile here best recycle it" that would be way too leniant for a trap that makes their movement harder to manage as efficiently.
Freddy's one is coming soon :p
You have to keep Hag's identity the same when reworking her power because otherwise her entire lore will need changing too. Her character is centred around charms and hexes.
I would say read the rework, you may like it.
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As i have said in plenty of posts mainly on deathslinger fun doesn't factor into balance unless it is not enjoyable by both sides. This is a pvp game you will ruin other player's experiences by just doing good. That is all i'll say on the topic of "fun" because i don't care about it i care about balance and i won't respond on it from here on out i will only talk about balance.
your idea doesn't make hag have a similar power level it actually makes her laughably bad, it doesn't even keep the same feel as her power since you are basically trapper but with worse traps. 20 meters? that sooooooooo dumb dude your power is a TRAP your are basically saying that if a survivor doesn't go into one spot the entire area around it is safe, the very nature of the power you describe would never even make it into implementation because it doesn't do anything unless you are already chasing a survivor AS A TRAP BASED KILLER. lastly what if the survivor is good at controlling their character even in reverse? your power does nothing, also a lot of the addons you want don't actaully help you since you can't act on info as a killer without a power.
the idea is awful, it makes her a joke and i honestly think this is a joke as well. you might as well always play with water lodge shoe just to see how bad this idea would be in practice.
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People do not like to play against game mechanics that reduce interaction and cause the game to be forced in a certain direction eg hook camping or hook bombing, hit and run or trap bullying. She is a boring killer and ignoring that to focus primarily on 'balance' isn't a healthy attitude to have. Since the mechanics of her gameplay remove all fun, regardless of winning or losing.
20m between Traps is fine, and i'll explain why: you Trap an area/tile that will be used a lot, you also Trap a nearby area for the same reasons. A survivor triggers the 1st Trap, you now have intel, you make your way over to them with a 24m TR (maybe 16m) and find them stumbling around because the controls caught them off guard, they run in a less efficient way to usual allowing you to capitalise on the chase, the fact you have no other Traps directly close to this tile allows you to not worry about having wasted your time with them stumbling across them and making you waste time resetting at the current or later period of the game. Also, because Traps cause such a nuisance to survivors movement, they may not want to purposefully trigger the trap to remove it from play. (If they are good at reverse controls, then yeah that will happen, but you know what it also does, it allows you to place a trap in an area different to that trap or in a more usueful area that was consumed by the 20m restriction. Also, there is such a thing as faking your power for mindgame purposes. Not to mention her Mint Rag add-ons apply a completely different effect as well as Scarred Hand giving her body block Traps back again.
I do not see on your level of this rework being lazy and laughably weak. Just coz you don't like the idea of it, does not mean it is a bad idea, admittedly we're all bias to our own ideas, however, constructive criticism is always welcome, mocking it isn't, so if that's your attitude, leave.
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nope there are too many tiles within 20 meters of each other you can loop around and because you can't tp survivors can also just destroy them all. You are assuming survivors will actually be really messed up from this all the time while forgetting that players adapt and this does nothing if the killer isn't there.
the idea isn't good i already explained why. what you don't get is how actual games play out and how players will easily get used to this even during the match.
edit: hag can be turned into a 4.6 m/s killer and this still wouldn't be good.
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What even is Hag? Haven't gone against her since December 2018.
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Oh also the trap radius for placement for that idea would overlap each other meaning it is extremely unlikely you can effectively place traps 20 meters from each other in spots that would be useful.
so that entire thing just wouldn't work as circles would overlap each other and make large area's you just can't place traps. this has flaws upon flaws.
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I don't like these changes. This would just make her more annoying and far worse than she is right now. Hag doesn't need any changes in my opinion.
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Areas that survivors constantly use would become deadzones quickly, not to mention the survivors won't know what tiles to avoid at the start of the game. And towards the middle part too due to them gettig rescues and commiting to gens. Maybe it can be polished a bit, but without in-game testing the idea is solid enough on paper.
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if you are a killer without a power which this would make hag then you will get gen rushed before that happens, that really only happens in games that last as long as old freddy made them.
also it's hella not solid i have pointed out flaws upon flaws, the fact that it can be rendered meaningless by survivors just getting used to it is prove enough.
edit: btw only killers that break pallets instantly or expose survivors create dead zones quickly. how do you expect killer that has nothing she can do in a chase to quickly create a dead zone when you just have to run across the map back and forth every time she has to break the pallet and deal with a jungle gym.
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To each their own, but no way can she remain the way she is. Also, it's good to note that not every killer is made to be insanely strong, having something that increases fun and interaction is great for the game too. However, I do disagree that she would be weak in this concept.
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she can remain as she is as she is balanced as said something not "fun" for only one side isn't a good enough reason to change something otherwise spirit and deathslinger would have been nerfed long ago.
I do think you should avoid talking about balance if you can't see how she would be weak, you are taking away her chase power AND mobility for a super weak effect. it shows you are either trolling or you have no idea what you are talking about.
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if she can only be on one survivor at once which this would turn her into there isn't a reason to not play a better killer at that like clown or deathslinger. yes im saying she would be weaker than clown.
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Keep Clown out of your mouth if you think he is weak.
Look at Trapper, the mere threat of the unknown can get you hits and downs in cetain areas. I refuse to agree with your bull-like natured opinion. The Suvivors will not know that the Trap is there and may not feel confident to commiting to actually safe areas due to it. 20m from the Trap not the trigger radius, so that 'flaw' you pointed out is not real. Maybe that could be improved upon slightly, but the general direction of the concept is the correct way to take her. There is honestly no point in continuing our argument, we both refuse to see eye to eye on this. And since you think Hag is fine as she is, that really makes me not wanna listen to you on a topic about a rework. In the future i'd suggest stay steer clear of typing on my posts, since you don't offer any pleasant dialogue. Like I said, constructive critisicm is welcome, anything like the way you interact isn't.
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"Keep Clown out of your mouth if you think he is weak." cool i'll move on as i should have and let these posts die as i should have.
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Why isn't Hag fine the way she is? She takes a good amount of skill to get used to, and has a fairly strong pay-off. Also, Hag is far weaker in your rework than she is right.
- Bewitched just doesn't seem like it would do much. It may catch survivors off guard at first, but the more the match goes on, the more survivors will get accustomed to it. I don't think good survivors would be affected much by it.
- You can no longer recycle traps. Why? If the majority of your traps are in an area the survivors are no longer in, you're quite literally powerless.
- Hag now only has 7 traps. Again, why? This only feeds into the previous nerf I talked about, because now you have less traps to use.
- Traps can't be placed within 20 meters of each other. Again just a needless nerf. This basically means you can only put one trap at a loop, which makes her even weaker. Trapper can put multiple traps at a loop, and his traps are more lethal then the traps Hag can use in this rework.
- Traps can't be placed within 12 meters of a hook. I don't care that much about this change, because Hag camping is very annoying, but I still don't really think it's needed.
- Why did you nerf Devour Hope? The perk is perfectly fine.
- Almost all of the reworked add-on's just suck. The only ones I can see being used are Dragonfly Wings and Dead Cicada.
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