Why do people think demo is weak?
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Not sure how it went from me telling you the facts to you saying I am trash at playing demo. They are not just trash excuses, but rather valid arguments for why demo is low tier.
The spirits phase sound is kinda eh because if you are in a chase, you will not hear it.
The deathslingers *ring sound when he is aiming at you is mostly pointless since he can instantly shoot you so you won't even hear it for half a second.
Freddy's teleport sound is global sure, but he can fake his teleport and always keep you guessing. He has snares too which make him a very dangerous threat in a chase.
I am not sure how nurses blink fits in here. Sure you can hear her blinking, but what does that do for you other than let you know she is in a chase? It also doesn't really matter since she is the most powerful killer in the game.
As a player who has almost played this game for 1800 hours and has played survivor and all killers the whole way, I think it is safe to say I know how to play demo and can identify his strengths and weaknesses. I am actually very good at playing him and can provide video evidence to prove it if you would like since you apparently think I don't know how to play him. Let me know if you would like to watch a couple of games.
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You need to remember that the gamer gods on these here forums think that the only way you can possibly win a game is by playing S tier killers with their best addons. If you queue up as killer, and don't bring your best addons, did you even play a game of killer?
Also: All killers are viable without addons at all ranks because 99% of the
survivorplayer base are potatoes.Boil'em
Mash'em
Stick'em in a stew.
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Seeing as how you have the most upvotes Im going to respond to you points. First of all I am in no way saying he's op. But I do think that he is a lot stronger than people give him credit for
- You said that the shred is baitable and pretty punishing. The same can be said about deathslinger's spear, huntress' hatchet, and pyramid heads POTD. The trick is patience, he moves fast enough in the shred that you can react to a survivor actually window vaulting 95% of the time so as long as you wait to see what their actually doing you will be fine.
- Portals can be removed, but it takes 12 seconds by default to seal it whereas it takes you one to replace it. You'll probally be heading over their anyways since you do get shown which portal got cleansed so you know thats where survivors are so when you get their just spend 1 second replacing it. They're wasting more time cleansing then it takes you to replace.
- His tracking is average for most of the match. But when you get to the final three gens it becomes very difficult for survivors to play around. If they don't cleanse you are constantly aware of when someone is on your gen. If they do cleanse not only did they waste twelve seconds of their time you are also still aware of what gen their on.
- His stealth is bad I agree with you on that I was just making the point that you still sometimes to get value out of it.
I'm just saying with these facts in mind and the right build Demogorgon is a hard killer to beat.
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Again, due to certain limitations, this is nearly impossible on Consoles.
The niche situation where Demo would get a hit with Shred and not by using a basic lunge is rare. It's like someone going down from Mending. Does it happen? Sure. Does it happen enough that I'll depend on it? No. His Shred is almost entirely used for zoning in most matches I've watched.
I invite you to explain his abysmal pick rate and his lower than average Kill Rate.
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The guy you responded to has kind of run out of arguments, so he's insulting both of us instead, lmao.
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idk what you are talking about i play him on console and do fine and i get a TON of hits at loops, yes i zone with him a lot obviously but there are plenty of loops you can fake a direction and go the other to get the survivor to go to the better shred side as well as get distance to hit with shred.
the only and i do mean only issue i have is hitting shreds up close for stbfl o console. hitting shreds in any other situation i do fine however im no master but demo is very playable on console. it's really just a matter of being able to aim on the X axis, what makes console worse is how much harder it is to aim on the X Y axis but limiting it to just X and being good at aiming on that axis is pretty doable.
pick rate: players think he is weak and do bad with him so he is less used and he is dlc with no truly good perks. he is also very frustrating when you are not hitting shreds or sneaking up with portals.
kill rate: it is brought down by players who are bad at him just look at other skill based killers, the pick rate doesn't matter much in this regard since it is so easy to be bad at him by spamming shred.
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Of course, I never presumed you were saying he was OP. Certainly, I didn't get that impression.
To address your points.
- Deathslinger's Spear has longer range and subsequently, isn't as punishing since it doesn't really matter how much distance they gain, you can still shoot them. Huntress gets 5 hatches. Missing one isn't huge. Pyramid Head POTD is also punishing, but you don't lose too much distance. Again, FPS makes this hard to do on Console, makes it difficult to react.
- They are actually not wasting more time. As a Killer, your time is 4x more valuable than the Survivors. Therefore, multiply the amount of time you spent walking there and placing the Portal by 4 and then you'll be able to see if it is worth it or not.
- His tracking is good at the end, but tracking does nothing when you have no means to capitalize on it. You already know they are going to be on one of three gens at the end of the game. Tracking is nice, but its WAY more valuable early on.
He needs something to make him unique and a better overall Killer. Right now, I have no reason to play him over anyone else.
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Skill based Killers do not equal low Kill Rate.
Demo has both a low pick rate and Kill Rate because he is fundamentally average.
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say that to huntress and nurse
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you also said you can't do good with him because your limited by console which to me just says you haven't gotten good at him since i can shred just fine with him.
your past post counters your statement of skill doesn't equal low kill rate.
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I am on the Xbox One X. Whenever I use Shred, my FPS drops to 10.
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- Anti-pallet loop looks like this
- Yes, unlike the clown, he can at least move around the map through his portals, at least 2 portals = 1 use teleport, and this is the problem, he needs to spend time to come and put these 2 portals, although you can do it accidentally, and it is possible to use them, but still, they are quickly broken by survivors.
- Yes, demogorgon in the end game is quite effective due to portals, if any.
- STBFL is really very strong on demogorgon, but do not forget that you need to hit the obsession with power, although it is very simple, it does not give an accelerated hit animation and the addition of tokens, this perk in general does not make the demogorgon better in chase, it just does not give survivor, after being hit, run far away, and will probably force the survivor to stay in the same place (if he has information about the perk).
- His two-second stealth does absolutely nothing, and if it worked, it means either it is a closed map with a good portal or surviving novices, this can really work well only with a red add-on for an increased stealth time.
- Demogorgon is dependent on the map, like any other killer, although not to the same extent as the others, but he has his own peculiarity - he is dependent on the "bamboozle" perk.
- In addition, Demogorgon has the worst addons in the game(Not a single Tier A addon, unlike all other killers who have at least one Tier A addon).
While the Demogorgon is not a very weak killer, he sits between average and weak killers.
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makes sense lol
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When i play with friends Demo is probably the easiest killer to beat. We know were he is at all times, when he approaches we just leave and move to another gen and track his portals. He is not bad in chases but you can still loop him for a while. The fact that he gives so much info on what he's doing makes him bad imo. In soloq i guess he is ok but in my experience i never see them doing very good either.
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I love Demo, I used to main him, I still preach his strengths, I do think he's very underrated, but his main issue is that he definitely doesn't compete with the strength of the best killers. He's also got the issue of having the same strengths as better killers, but those strengths being weaker (since he's a jack of all trades).
Take Blight, a killer that I think is very comparable to Demo. Mobility off the bat, power is overall similar to a slower shred, but a shred that gives you high mobility around the map AND has an instant charge time, that also has a lunge at the end of it (that you can flick, flick Blight main here), and it also breaks pallets. Blight also has amazing catch-up, so there's a small window of time between each hit. This alone just makes Blight a better Demo.
You can also compare Freddy to Demo. Freddy has a teleport that brings you right to gens with no setup time. Great anti-loop. Passive stealth. Passive slowdown.
Pyramid Head as well. Power similar to Shred, but one that you move faster in while charging, and sends out a shockwave that goes out through walls, pallets, and windows. He has a little bit of setup with trails, but not much to the point where it's really inconvenient. Wastes less time with caging (rather than wasting less time with mobility with portals) and can avoid the perk meta.
Hell, even Victor. Moves at 6m/s base, has a super fast charge time, and pounces fast to pallets and windows. He's almost like a mini Demo that moves super fast, is very stealthy, can't break pallets or vault windows, but gets a muuuuch faster rate of downs. He's amazing at snowballing once survivors are injured.
Huntress. Charges attack around a corner, throws a hatchet and can attack through pallets, windows, and at a super high range. She just doesn't have a secondary, but a far stronger chase. Also slower, but again, fast chases.
Slinger. Instant charge time, attacks through windows even when survivors vault them, can injured through pallets, and can attack from a very high range and is undodgable. He's just also slow.
A lot of these powers are similar to Shred, but just objectively stronger. The upside that Demo has over all of these powers, with the exception of Freddy and Blight, is suuuuper high mobility around the map with portals, but with the cost of a lot of setup time, the risk of them being disabled, and having to be on top of a portal to go to another. The portals aren't amazing, and as his chases are similar but much weaker to other killers, he's just lacking because of his weaker strength when compared to others.
Also, a downside of any killer is having to land one attack, then hold W and land another. He can't instadown or close the distance really quickly (Like Nurse, Spirit, Blight, Hag, Huntress, Oni, Bubba, etc). STBFL makes this MUCH better for Demo, but without it, or at low stacks, it's going to be difficult for this to not be an issue.
Being a jack of all trades is just not a great thing, because it leads to the issue of "why not just play this killer?" Still, love Demo, I think he's a decent killer, but there you go.
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I dropped a pallet. Now he has no anti-loop. That's why he's ultimately mediocre against a good team. He's a glorified pallet breaker like Freddy.
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I really don't get where this idea came from that he's only good at anti loop when a pallet isn't dropped. Like what about his shred gives you that impression?
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I do think you are making very valid points. Yes killers like Freddy do his power better, but lets not forget the devs and plenty of the community see Freddy as too strong and it is already confirmed he is getting a nerf.
I also play blight a lot and know he is a very strong killer. Blight does mobility better than Demogorgon and they have similar chase. But demo also has tracking which seems to be forgotten by a lot of the community. It is a lot stronger than people give it credit for. The fact that we are even comparing blight (an A tier killer) to demo is just helping my point.
Pyramid Head has better chase and his cages are efficient. But people don't take into account just how much demos portals allow him to defend gens. Especially the final three. The ability to be constantly aware of who is on what gen and having instant mobility to that with little the survivors can do about it (If they don't cleanse I know they're there and can teleport, if they do cleanse I know they're there and they wasted 12 seconds cleansing) is insanely powerful.
Victor is Charlottes only power, and after using him she has to spend like 3 or 4 seconds switching back and has to also waste time going over to pick up the survivor and victor can just be completely negated at certain such as the harvester on coldwind or any of the Haddonfield houses.
Deathslinger has better chase but also has no mobility whatsoever and missing shots is very punishing. Demo can recover in a second and be back in chase, if deathslinger wants to use his gun again not only does he have to wait for the missed shot stun to end but he also has to reload. Demogorgon's shred isn't actually reactable either, combining his insanely wide hitbox with almost 20 meters a second speed and you left with pre-emptively dodging similar to deathslinger.
I could very well be 100% wrong and I'm ok with that. I just really do believe that his kit has more to offer than people give it credit for.
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Me: Wait Freddy isn't a ranged killer, why did you say that?
Also me: Oh actually, Ping is killers best friend.
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In terms of strength, he is not low tier. However, his portal stealth is poinless and most of his addons are just as pointless.
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I agree with Pulsar and you, but I think it comes down to being competent with Shred which I don't think most people are. Including myself.
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I'm going to do my best to address all of your points
- You argued the fact that Demo suffers a worse punishment then Deathslinger. While technically missing a shred is longer then missing a shot from Deathslinger there are other factors that say it's the other way around. Missing Demo's shred results in a stun that last 2.25 seconds while Deathslingers stun only lasts 1.5 seconds however, when you miss a shot with Deathslinger you have to reload. His reload speed takes 2.75 seconds (without add-ons). While reloading he also moves at 66% movement speed. If you choose to not reload you are stuck as a 110% m1 killer. I also have to bring up the fact that even if you miss with Demo, you still instantly move 11 meters whereas Deathslinger is still in the same spot he shot from. You also mentioned that huntress comes with 5 hatches and missing one isn't huge. I agree, however you will still end up reloading the hatchets anyways. It takes 4 seconds to reload (without add-ons). That means missing two shreds would be about equivalent to one reload. You mentioned that Pyramid Head doesn't lose too much distance if he misses. He suffers a stun of 2.25 seconds which is the same as Demo. I should also mention that the POTD has a max range of 8 meters while Demo's shred has a max range of 11 meaning Demo can hit a survivor sooner then Pyramid Head. You also mentioned FPS makes it hard for console to use it. Does this really warrant Demo a total rework.
- I don't think your 100% correct with the timing of this. Yes, if you cross over to the other side of the map just to replace your portal you are wasting time. But lets say you aren't currently in a chase with anyone, you may head over to that area to find a survivor. If you are in a chase you can just simply ignore it and replace it next time you happen to be in that part of the map.
- You said that we know they will be on one of the three gens but which one? What if they are spaced well? You would have to go check which gens are getting worked on. His tracking does that for you. You mention that tracking is more valuable early game and I have to disagree with that. Top tier killers vs. top tier survivors will almost always result in either 2 or 1 gen remaining. I would rather have good tracking late game where I can use it more to my advantage. During the early game at least 2 gens should be getting worked on. Even if you knew survivors were on those gens it wouldn't matter because one of them are still getting done even if you try to pressure one of them. Doctor is a prime example. I used to main him and every game I played where the survivors were my skill level or better we got down to 2 gens in the first 5 minutes. His tracking didn't help me that much until late game. I would be able to hold the 2 gens until I either got the 4k or I couldn't finish enough chases and they were able to get out.
- My point is simple. You compare parts of Demo's kit to top tier killers. Pyramid Head and Deathslinger is all about chase but you compare Demo's chase to them. Demo also has tracking and mobility in his kit. Neither Deathslinger nor Pyramid Head have any of that (unless you consider the occasional dumb survivor walking in Pyramid Head's trail tracking). People compare his mobility to Oni, Billy, and Blight. Oni only has his mobility when he has his power which only last 60 seconds. Now don't get me wrong I know that Oni's mobility is better. I'm just saying people are comparing Demo's mobility which he has constantly to a killer who does it better but only has that power for 60 seconds. With Billy you may have the occasional instant against bad survivors but for the most part he's an m1 killer. Billy has better mobility but his chase, and tracking don't compare to Demo's (not to mention Billy is map dependent). Blight has great mobility along with great chase but on top of being map dependent he doesn't have Demo's tracking. That fact is you're not comparing his kit to weak killers but to A tier killers. Demo obviously shouldn't have the best chase along with the best mobility along with the best tracking along with the best stealth. The thing is he has all of these in his kit and all except his stealth are viable.
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This is also the reason why survivors always herald him to the the most "balanced and fun" killer. Because hes really bad as a killer, meaning survivors have an easier time escaping and bullying him.
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Also a rank 1 Demo here. I agree with everything you've said. I really feel like he is a strong and oppressive killer but only in the right hands. Shred is really good and can shut down a lot of loops. I think people struggle with portal placement and using his shred too often. He is probably one of my most reliable killers and I can consistently 4K with him. I think he just has more of a learning curve with loops and shred and portals. His add-ons need touched desperately though. And maybe make him quiet after tunneling so you can actually stealth a bit. Other than that one of my favorite killers and definitely has counter play against his portals and shred so pretty balanced id say.
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I'll counter. I do appreciate you taking the time to carefully respond to me :)
- Demo's Shred often launches him FAR past the Survivor he was attempting to hit. Additionally, if you miss a Shred, you cannot turn around and hit them with it, unlike how Deathslinger can miss a shot, reload and hit someone. Most good Huntress players do not ever exhaust all of their hatchets, therefore, that argument is void. A hatchet is a health state, she is simply better than Demo and I think you know that. Pyramid Head and Demo's power have a similar punishment, but the thing that allows PH to lose less distance is the fact that his power can be used at loops. POTD can hit through walls and loops, making it exceptional on 80% of the loops in the game, while Demo would be hardpressed to do anything except eat pallets. As for Console FPS, either BHVR delivers on their promise to the majority of their players or they start making Killers that work as intended on Console.
- I was speaking in general terms, apologies, I should have been clearer. It was brought up in a video of Scott Jund's. He said something to the effect of, "Killers time is much more valuable than Survivors, say, around 4x." I think he later went on to say it might be closer to 33%, but its been a while since I watched that video. Basically, as Killer, if you aren't actively chasing someone, you are allowing 4 people free gen repairs. That was the gist of it.
- You shouldn't ever be in a position where you don't have a three gen lategame, but lets say you are. Yes, those Portals WILL provide information. But if there are 3 or more Survivors left, you've already lost, barring a dumb play on their part. If they cleanse your Portal once, like I said earlier, the time taken to go back and replace it allows the others to do gens for free. Also, you are not always channeling Shred, if his Killer Instinct was always active, I would be more inclined to agree. But its conditional.
- Demo doesn't have mobility. He has map traversal. He can get to a specific location quickly. Oni, Billy and Blight can all use their map traversal as mobility to down Survivors. Demo has way worse chase than PH or Deathslinger, which is fine, but they are EXTREMELY good in chase. That makes up for their lack of mobility (sometimes) since they get downs so quickly. Good Billy will almost always get 1-hit downs. After the nerfs, not many are left, but they still exist. Billy's chase is definitely better than Demo's on maps, he excels in the same places Blight does, in between loops.
- Demo is comparable to low tier Killers, I simply chose not to do so, as to demonstrate why he ISN'T a top tier Killer. Let's take Legion. Legion gets easier first hits, way more info and way better mobility. Demo has the edge in second hits and map traversal.
Pig's slowdown is viable, that doesn't mean she is good. Legion's tracking is viable, also doesn't make him good. Clown's chase is EXCEPTIONAL, he still isn't high tier.
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Probably because he actually requires some effort. If a killer is perceived weak, then that killer is probably a fair killer to verse. One that requires as much effort to play as for the opposing team to have a chance to win. A strong killer or an overpowered killer is one that where one player can play comfortably and win yet the other side most likely loses no matter what they do.
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I think will have to agree to disagree
Post edited by UrFat on0 -
He is honestly my least favorite character to play. I like nothing about his kit and playing him makes me feel actual dread.
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Bro I can barely find any ######### rat livers honestly this game hates me.
But yeah apart from only having 1 addon slot I don't really care that he needs rat liver
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Haha yeah I have a theory the bloodweb learns what items you like to buy and then makes them appear less XD
(Just noticed a perk I didn't want appear 7x in a row one time)
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