Will the changes to DS actually improve the game?
Here is a take I haven't seen yet that I want to make sure gets out there for discussion.
First let's not delude ourselves thinking that this isn't a hard nerf to DS. DS was used to protect survivors not just in scenarios where "tunnelling" occurred. Its more abusive uses were a reason the perk was used and removing those abusive uses will reduce the value of decisive strike.
Undoubtedly, decisive strike feels bad for killers but it does encourage survivors to be out in the open doing things. The alternative might be without this safety net (crutch) survivors will draw back and hide in the shadows more. Will they do more immersive, hit and run tactics? Maybe all won't, but I would expect this behavior to increase, which will slow the pace of the game down.
There will be a titanic shift in the meta once this goes live, I just wonder if this is will make the game what we want it to be.
Comments
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in my opinion we all should wait for ptb with this changes give it a try and they give our feedback now its hard to tell if this change is good or not
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Survivors will just go back to Borrowed Time, it's a way better perk to counter tunneling because you get the speed burst when you get hit.
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It will, you just won't be able to do things you otherwise wouldn't get away with, like doing gen in killers face, force a grab with rescue etc etc..
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Agreed, survivors will have lost the tool that let's them do this. Maybe that's good overall or maybe not, it depends on what survivors do to replace that perk and how they continue to play. It will change their approach for sure, it would be silly to just assume that survivors will just keep doing the same things in light of these changes.
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I think the best thing now is that you have to make choice, will you risk losing your DS but help with faster game progression (high risk high reward) or will you take safe way for yourself and wait until you are ready? (Low risk low reward)
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I don't think that is how survivors will look at it that way at all. I think they will decide that DS doesn't do what they liked about it and stop using it altogether.
I'll pose another question, do we think that survivor dc rates (or hook suicides) will increase or decrease with this change to DC? And how do we feel that will impact the health of the game?
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It will definitely help. I can even see the devs buffing the timer and/or stun to make it better at punishing tunneling.
I just wish that other perks could be given such clear deactivation criteria. Imagine if BT somehow knew the survivor was using it for bodyblocking, or if NOED wouldn't activate if the killer hadn't done much that trial but not in such a way that gen rushing would prevent it.
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Definitely? I am not so sure. Do you honestly think survivors only took DS to protect against tunnelling. I think the value of the perk included all its uses, including the offensive ones. With that value removed I just don't see this perk being used anymore at the same frequency.
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No, i think most survivors took DS to abuse the hell out of it. Now that that's gone, the game will be better, and the Devs have shown they have gotten over their fear of complicated perk descriptions.
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The argument that survivors won't do anything to progress the game without DS to save them when they get caught is just such a weird argument. Like... What are you actually saying? That people actually are overrelying on perks that are basically a free-out-of-jail card? I normally don't pull the "Git Gud" card but I'm not sure if there's even another answer to this lmao. I haven't used DS in ages and I seemed to manage? What about all the other survivors that aren't using DS? Are you claiming they don't progress the game?
If you're talking about lower ranked survivors then sure... I suppose DS gave them a feeling of safety but they're still in a learning phase. It's not uncommon for lower ranked survivors to sit in corners of the map and not progress the game anyways so I doubt the change for DS would even have a big impact on lower ranked survivors.
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It's better but they should make it 45 seconds not 60 just like with Pop.
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It will be better for killers. I personally would eat the stun early if I could. I wonder if killers will be more likely to eat it now or if they are still going to slug a dude for 60 seconds.
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I didn't say they wouldn't progress the game, i proposed that they will be more stealthy about it.
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This makes no sense, what's the difference in eating the stun early now
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Honestly, no. Its basically going to start a new trend of toxicity and tunneling from killers who bait the survivor into doing objectives and then proceed to tunnel them risk free. It's a really unhealthy change and it was a poor idea to just implement what killer mains were requesting without any forethought of the risks and downsides to doing so. I don't use DS, but even I'll feel the effects of this as the fear of DS will be gone. My concern is mostly for weaker players that are not very good loopers and will just get tunneled straight out of the game via bait tunneling.
But hey, the devs have always favoured killers. Lol I really shouldn't even be surprised at this point. Especially after the Autohaven nerfs with huge deadzones and fewer pallets.
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nah actually would be worse. i dont even run ds anymore before it. its only activated on special occasion and if u go to red rank in sea most killer will just slug you and patrol around you until 60s passed. Usually only purple killer got dsed
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Well, Now they can't do ######### if you let them go.
But, I don't see why people didn't eat it before. So I am curious if people are changing how they deal with DS or not.
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I just thought of something else, the proposed changes will do little to stop the annoyance during EGC. If someone is unhooked after the last gen is finished, a ds will still result in the types of escape that feel the most frustrating as a killer.
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Hardly.
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This is just my opinion and I could be proven wrong when the changes get here. I think the change is good for the entire game and DS will still be a meta perk for survivor. The only thing that will change is survivors won't be able to get away with risky actions anymore. Such as getting unhooked, unhooking someone else and using DS or UB to put the killer in a situation where it is a lose/lose. I also think this will separate the wheat from the chaff. DS has been such an OP perk for years that removing it will reveal who is actually good at survivor and who needs 2nd chance perks to survive.
As far as reworks go, this is looking like one done right. It will still counter killers tunneling off the hook while no longer giving 60 secs of immunity to people who are not being tunneled. Unlike some other perks I can think of that were reworked and became damn near useless. /coughMoMcough
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Very much so..that perk has been a plague for years..now it's actually got a legitimate purpose and isn't so game breaking so easily
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I just don't think it is a very good anti tunnelling perk. I think it is when coupled with unbreakable a very good invulnerability perk. These changes remove this, and in my opinion will lead to almost no one taking this perk anymore. Survivors still need to try to survive and i think their tactics will change. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.
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True, these situations can still happen. But at least it will cut down on the whole Survivor walking ten feet and getting on a generator like "WHATCHOOGONNADOABOUTIT?!"
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I think it'll improve it. Survivors won't just be able to sit on a gen with DS and then when a killer downs them and picks them up the killer gets punished for it, losing momentum. It'll definitely slow down gens. Its still the old anti tunneling perk just more balanced. Survivors are able to be out and do things still after being unhooked but now they'll be punished for not healing.
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What PTB? They said this change is coming on Tuesday with the mid-chapter patch. There won't be a PTB for it.
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If you mean will killers still complain about DS even after being neutered, the answer is yes.
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No they said ds change will come with the new chapter, colorblind mode is coming on midchapter patch
Edit: @not_Queen can you confirm?
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Well there are things about the changes to DS that killers are talking about. DS locker Strat. DS is extremely powerful in end game and there's a very high chance that DS makes it to end game for sure now. Other aggressive DS baits are possible, since killers will probably be less likely to look out for DS now. Getting healed by other survivors doesn't disable DS making things even more confusing. Depending on how survivors adapt to DS changes, fear of DS might not actually change and killers might just keep slugging or learn to just eat DS.
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