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The "Mr X/Pennywise" Problem.
A few days ago I got into a discussion about how the weaknesses and limitations of killers (not in gameplay but as a character) don't matter. This really stood out to me as the big issue with people who don't understand why killers like Pennywise or Nemesis can't be added to the game. Some people are so adamant to have Mr X added to the game that they forget to picture him being stunned by a 6 inch thick pallet of wood. Some people in the community don't understand the reason why killers like Freddy and Demogorgon work in the game and characters like Pinhead and Nemesis don't. I really would like to clear this up if anyone is confused about this.
Comments
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So you're telling me big boy Nemesis or Mr X getting hit by a pallet thrown down by a 120 pound soaking wet lady makes sense but a giant like Oni or really any killer not fully human getting stunned does?
It also makes sense that David, a man who gets into regular bar fights for funsy is somehow unable to overpower Amanda, a 5'3" killer (or at least that's how tall her actress is) who just lifts him up over her shoulders while he kicks and screams like he's a rowdy toddler?
Spoiler Alert; a lot of things in this game don't work if you decide to apply "real world" logic to it.
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The devs said Pennywise is they're dream license, so I'm pretty sure they could do it. They can make all killers work, Chucky, Pinhead, Alien, Mr x etc etc, you just need good imagination.
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No need to be rude, and I'm not applying "real world" logic to the issue. I'm simply addressing the very obvious problems with having a 9 foot biotank that can leap over buildings being added to the game. Or an alien clown that manifests specific fears and warps reality. Or a hell priest that summons chains from the walls to slowly torture it's victims. The killers in the game are limited by their weaknesses, and are only made slightly stronger and given slightly more stamina than normal humans by the Entity. Pig's ability to carry giant men can be chalked up to the Entity giving her strength. While the Oni has demonic strength and speed, he's still mostly human or at least limited by human form. Freddy might be a dream demon, but his physical body is still there in game so he's not in our heads, he's really there and we're only affected by his power in microsleep. Demogorgon gets beaten with a bat. There are very clear indications of why these things work in game.
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Actually freddy's power was tampered by the entity. Any killers can work but devs just gotta be creative with their powers.
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It's just that, a dream. Pennywise has no real physical form, he's just an alien ball of light. If you think about it, he's way to similar to The Entity itself and that would be an issue lore wise. How's a parasitic space god feed off another parasitic space god? Chucky on his own is useless, he's way too small. Yes I know it's been suggested that he could work with his human form but then that would just be The Twins. Imagination can only go so far without changing the character entirely. Xenomorph is described as "the perfect organism" literally unstoppable unless it's shot or blown up. The Predator would work nicely though. Mr X is a towering bioweapon that walks through walls and tanks grenades. A plank of would should not affect him. Plus with his strength he could just chuck a generator out of the match. On top of that, he wouldn't listen to the Entity anyway, he's programmed to kill RPD, STARS and any witnesses and military personnel. He's useless to the Entity.
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My main issue with Pennywise is it's basically the same thing as the Entity, just an a lesser scale. They feed on emotions. Pennywise on fear, and the Entity, like... All of them.
I also have no idea how his power would work.
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All of this
There are plenty of things in this game that don't make sense even if you don't want to do the "real world" part. Once people are asleep, Freddy could just appear next to them and murder them as his leisure. His powers are basically unlimited once someone has fallen asleep but Freddy somehow works just fine in the game anyway.
Honestly, I could likely do this same thing for any killer (fixing their overpowers or strengthening their obvious weaknesses) but the OPs arguments are all just going to ultimately be "Nu Uh" because for some reason killers being strengthened and/or weakened by The Entity can apply to them if they are currently in the game but for some reason The Entity is unable to strengthen or weaken Pennywise or Mr X or Nemesis to make them work
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Freddy was physically placed in the Entity, his body is legitimately there in the waking world which is why we can physically interact with him. His power only affects us in microsleep. I would love it if every killer was in the game, but imagination can only go so far before you change the character entirely or make a bargain brand phone game version of the character.
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Pennywise would've been more at home in Last Year: The Nightmare. In that setting, they could flex his abilities to the max.
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That's the thing, survivors don't fall asleep. It's microsleep, like they're hallucinating or having a manic episode. He can't outright kill survivors because they can run and fight back. Pennywise is on the same level as the Entity itself, how would a parasitic space god feed off another parasitic space god? Mr X and Nemesis are towering bioweapons that walk through walls, use anti tank weapons and eat grenades and bullets for diner. Even if the Entity got them in the realm, they wouldn't listen because they're programmed to attack specific people. There are rules, limits and logic in the structure and story of the game that limits who and what can be added to the roster even if you don't want to admit it. I'm simply asking you to think about this critically, analyze what makes the game work in a logical way and boil it down to the basics. All survivors are too stupid to escape, all killers are weak to allow survivors a fighting chance.
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The Entity debuffs their strength so that they can get stunned by a pallet and reprograms them to either just kill anyone running around or make it so that Dwight has turned into a STAAAAAAAARRRRRRRSSSSSSSsssssssssss member. Dwight's elite locker hiding skills make for an excellent addition to the STARS program and we look forward to him serving with this elite group of cops.
Critically thought and analyzed complete. Mr X and Nemesis are now good to go and can be added to the game at BHVRs leisure.
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Genuinely... Who cares? They can make anything they want to work work. Applying the logic of how the character works in their own world is pointless because that’s not how they’ll work in the game. If it’ll bring in more players they’ll do it.
Original killers are better than licensed tho
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Please take this seriously, I'm trying to help people understand why they shouldn't get their hopes up for things that will never come.
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All it takes is to add Leon and Claire or any of the STARS members as survivors and the bioweapons would have no other choice but to kill the other survivors as well since they'd be potential witnesses.
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It matters to me because there's obviously a pattern and reasoning for the characters they add and people who fail to see that pattern get their hopes up for chapters they want in the game and then cry and whine about it when their super detailed conspiracy theory of their favorite OP killer being added to the game is invalidated.
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I don't really agree. Pennywise and Entity could work together, I'm pretty sure devs already would know the answer. Chucky isn't useless, he has human strength in his doll form, he also has real power to work with. As far as we know maps are the Entity, we can't know how strong pallet is, because it is part of the Entity, so Alien and Mr X could work aswell, imo.
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I am taking this seriously because I for one would like BHVR to have a bigger pool of potential killers than "Some human dude/dudette with a knife".
There's no reason why your logic of strengthening or debuffing current killers can't apply to any character we'd want to add to the game. Just because you either lack the creativity or refuse to use it to figure out how to make anyone work in this game doesn't mean BHVR can't do it. There is zero reason why any killer from any medium couldn't potentially be added to the game as long as you, how did you put it, think critically and analyze it.
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I guess that works too if you need a reason for why Mr X or Nemesis is running around murdering people but I like my idea of making Dwight a STARS member way more :D
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If I argue with this I'm just going to repeat the same thing over and over so I guess I'll just agree.
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Please just don't be rude with me, I understand the point you made and it's incredibly valid BUT you have to understand that having a 9 foot tank or a space god as killers is a little over the top, even for DBD.
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I guess, sure, but these are gigantic wall punching biotanks we're talking about. They do not work. If you really really REALLY need your resident evil fix in DBD, I suggest looking at Hunter Beta's, Jack, or Hesinburg Dimitrescu in the upcoming RE Village title. You have other options.
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Myers got stabbed in the face, shot six times and fell out of a window and still managed to get up. If he can get stunned by a pallet and have it look fine, I'm sure they'll figure something out with every character.
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Over all I agree but....PinHead has lost lots of chases and been hurt plenty of times. His chains would be his Mori. On a side note Demo always kinda bothers me. Its the only one thats not or has ever been human, more beast than killer. Dont get me wrong Demo us fun, but it still feels odd man out to me
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The thing is that each time he was stunned and slowed down. If it takes a shotgun and a grenade to slow down a killer, a plank of wood is not going to do anything. They could just walk through the wood.
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A huge gameplay mechanic of RE is that you can, in fact, stun massive BOWs. I mean I could literally imagine Nemesis, Thanatos, or Tyrant getting thwapped with a pallet and doing their 'small stun' animations, which tend to be them just standing still, not even flinching, and looking very slightly dazed.
Like... Nyx might not work in DBD (though it would be a hilarious change of pace to have the killer be this giant mobile blob of goo that shoots aoe tentacles everywhere) but Tyrant variants go 'Ooof that smarts...' plenty of times.
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Demo has been beaten by a baseball bat and lost chases to kids, I think he fits in DBD just fine. Pinhead would be cool I guess but his powers alter reality and he has to rely on cornering his victims or appearing in a room they couldn't leave in the first place.
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I thought about that too and I like that you mentioned it, but it takes literal grenades and serious firepower to stun those guys. Pallets do not equal heavy ordinance.
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I mean, the rules and limits can be changed.
Take Pyramid Head, for example.
His lore states that his time was done, he was ready to fade into the Void whence he came, and was actually in the middle of doing that before the Entity was like:
"Hey, I got a job for you, if you want it."
And then Pyramid Head made it into DbD.
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Mr. Gon' GiveIt To Ya wouldn't fit through the door anyway
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are you aware of a fallacy called special pleading?
because you should really stop using it
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Things do not have to make sense for them to get added. pyramid head shows this very well. Why is Cheryl the survivor she has no reason to be hunted or tormented by pyramid head ,and not a being that actually means something to her? How did the entity get in contact with a being who only exist to people who manifested him in silent hill? why does pyramid head even listen to the entity what is it even getting out of this? Its because pyramid head would make behavior a lot of money. Nemesis or Mr. X will probably be added for the same reason ,but its not like characters are supposed to make sense like why doesn't Demogorgon just jump over pallets ,or why does oni even care about pallets? I could go on forever on all the stuff that doesn't make sense lore wise ,but in the end gameplay (and money) will come first when they think of a character to add in a game like this.
Also why doesn't pinhead make sense?
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The Entity messes with the Killers before fully bringing them in. Freddy's lore even says that his powers were changed. If they weren't, then what's to stop him from using his full power and tormenting the Survivors for hours? Nemesis/Mr. X and Pennywise would be subjected to the same treatment.
Also Nemesis wouldn't mind being in something like DBD because of one of his mission objectives (gather combat data for Umbrella to sell) and his sadistic personality.
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The inflexible people are the same people who do not think logically the true power of Jason for Dead by Daylight. I think they have never seen a Slasher movie or simply never believe that the missing slashers will never make it to Dead by Daylight just like they think that a Spiderverse would never be possible.
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I kind have similar feelings, Nemesis is just so strong physically to be stopped by a pallet, and it just would seem a bit odd to me, Mr.X kinda does fall into this category too, but if a shotgun can hold him back then I'd say a pallet would, maybe we get Jack Baker instead he'd be the most logical. But Pennywise for me would just feel absolutely weird coming into DBD as a Killer would just be a severe head scratcher for me, the only way it would make sense for him to be in DBD, is if he is the Entity itself.
But I wouldn't mind entirely, I would just slightly though
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Thats explained by the entity buffing their strength.
Oni is crazy and think his tactics are perfect, so for a pallet to drop on him is surprising as he thought he would win the chase earlier
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This
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The answer is simple: DbD Survivors will get hand grenades and firearms when Mr. X or Nemesis arrive. Easy-peasy! :D
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I won't deny that you have valid points, but there's an obvious pattern with the killers that they do add to the game. Asking for Mr X or Nemesis as killers is like asking for spiderman or doom guy as survivors. They are way too over the top to ever make sense in DBD. With Oni, he might be an ancient samurai but he was still human. Demogorgon might be an interdimensional monster, but he was beaten with a baseball bat and lost a chase to a bunch of kids. Also, Pinhead doesn't even have a weapon. He's only a threat when his victims are in a locked room.
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I understand that powers can be altered, but these guys are way too over the top to be added into the game.
1. They're too tall. They could just walk over pallets or pick up survivors without even hurting them first.
2. They're too strong. A pallet does not equal an explosive, which is what is necessary to use to stun them.
3. Asking for them in the game is like asking for doom guy as a survivor. It just seems goofy.
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Did you read my reply?
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DBD is a fun casual party game and a homage to horror. Not some serious cinematic story based video game. It's not meant to be taken seriously. All of those characters you say will never come to DBD because of your 'rules' and 'logic' will all someday be in this game if Behaviour had their way. Jason, Pennywise, and Pinhead are MCote's 3 most wanted killers. If you think Behaviour isn't going to add them or Chucky, Nemesis, and an Xenomorph you're crazy.
You people in here sound like those annoying Smash fans going on about fan-rules as if they're law.
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I understand that it's just a video game and it's all just to have fun with famous slashers. But you need to understand that Nemesis, Pennywise, Mr X, Jason Vorhees, Pinhead and a big chunk of slashers in other media would be way too over the top to be added in the game. I've said this almost 3 times now, added Nemesis and Pennywise as killers is like adding Spiderman and Doomguy as survivors. The excuses like "oh make him shorter!" Or "oh make him weaker!" Are fundamental changes that would make the characters look ridiculous in the game. Even if they got them added in, DBD would never do them justice.
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Spider-Man and Doomguy would be silly in DBD, yes. Not because of their power levels or logic, but because they're not horror characters. DBD is the Smash Brothers of Horror. So of course they wouldn't fit. But Nemesis and Pennywise? Oh hell yes.
It's why Smash can add Minecraft's Steve and Final Fantasy's Sepirtoth back to back without issue while fan picks like Goku and Shrek will never happen. Smash is a silly game, but it's still a homage to video games only.
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It literally has everything to do with their powers, do you seriously believe that if DBD dropped the horror theme they could still be added?
1. Killers like Nemesis are too tall and too powerful to ever fit in the game. Nemesis couldn't even walk through a door, and the idiotic solution to make them shorter is goofy as hell.
2. Killers like Pennywise and Pinhead warp reality and rely on specific circumstances to do harm to their victims. Killers in DBD adapt to their environment, not the other way around.
3. Killers like Xenomorph are written and designed to be perfect killers, only able to be stopped by an equally perfect survivor. Xenomorph can crawl over walls, leap super high, and are generally too smart to be looped by a teenager. Adding Xenomorph to DBD would be hilariously dumb.
I'm not saying I don't want these killers in the game, I'm saying they don't make any sense. They're too over the top, too specific.
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A subway worker wildly swinging a lead pipe can stun Thanatos, who is basically a roided out Mr. X.
You can also do it with pistol rounds to the head, knives, ect. I mean you basically HAVE to get good at doing this to beat Tofu survivor. The BOWs are insanely tough, but they still feel pain, and generally are 'surprised' by it before getting mad and becoming immune to it for a short time, rather than just being terminator grade immune to everything.
Mr. X specifically is probably the best BOW for the task in DBD in terms of the survivor stun tools affecting him. His flashlight blind could have maybe a special animation of him doing is funny 'hand in front of face' thing where he seems mystified that light (this time from a flashlight rather than a flashbang) can affect him, and he is fragile enough that the initial shock of a 9mm round to the head stuns him. So presumably a pallet might as well.
Generally BOWs are hard to kill, easy to stun, because a key feature of the RE games is that enemies are bullet sponges but you can use your rounds tactically to just get past them at a much lower 'cost.' The biggies are no exception, unless they are doing their mega attacks. So I could see X, thanatos, Nemesis, ect having abilities that allow them to insta-smash through pallets, but I don't think it would break my suspension of disbelief as a RE fan of such caliber that I casually reference outbreak like its a game people have played to see Mr X go "Wuh, pain exists?" against a pallet.
The main issue with Mr. X is that he would probably basically be very similar to Oni: He is known for huge charges and sweeping attacks that just floor people, and resistance to him starting easy but getting harder and harder as he isn't really hurt by anything, so much as initially shocked by it. Maybe an Oni who gets rage by staying in chases and getting slapped by pallets or blinded, which eventually lets him just ignore survivor tools like blinds and slams, rather than getting their super-mode by collecting blood? But that would be a weird gameplay loop.
Nemesis would probably not work too great because his main gimmick as one of the big BOWs is like... crazy guns and giant monster forms. Thanatos is not super well known and would just kinda be like... an alt Hillbilly? And Tyrant likewise would be like a weird alt blight or something.
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Not having overpowered survivors has everything to do with their powers, do you seriously think that if they dropped the horror theme they would add in more over the top characters?
1. Killers like Nemesis are way too tall and way to strong. They can't even fit through the door, and the idiotic solution to shorten them is laughable. Their strength compared to DBDs strongest killer, Oni, is like comparing an elephant to a whale.
2. Killers like Pennywise and Pinhead warp reality and rely on specific situations to hurt victims. They are metaphysical, and are mostly in the minds of their prey, they inherently don't make sense on purpose.
3. Killers like Xenomorph are over the top efficient. They could crawl on walls, hop over pallets it's literally described as the perfect organism. Looping a Xenomorph would be hilariously stupid, not to mention whatever powers it would have would break the game.
I really don't like heated arguments, I would prefer if you would try to understand my points a little better so I could understand yours.
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Also if we get a RE survivor and don't get a Tofu skin that makes hiding completely impossible I will RIOT.
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You don't need a good imagination, you just need the writers bandaid of "big magic scary monster entity magically made them weaker with magic. Also, magic."
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Mr X is probably in the inbetween of "too much" and "just right" to be added in the game. While it's probable that he could be looped, stunned, and blinded there's also the issue of just being too tall and not having a legitimate power that can be balanced in the game. Resident Evil Resistance is probably the closest we'll ever see him in a DBD style setting.
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I'd riot with you
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