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Trying to fine viable use for the speed bottles suggestions are welcome
Yesterday I made a post about how they are almost useless rather than just saying they are almost useless I am gonna try to think of situations where you can use both speed and slow together to get hits that almost no other killer can get
Example 1 rancid aboutuair windows I feel like this is the first area where I could use both speed and slow to get a guaranteed hit because it is long enough to throw speed and swap to slow in time
And example 2 ormond staircase
Same thing applies here if you come in form the front you could throw a speed at the gen and swap and throw it at the top of the stairs to deny access to god pallets
This is 2 examples I can think of hopefully someone can give good ideas where to place bottels to get consistent value out of it preferably at more common loops shack jungle gyms maybe even tnl loops or other main buildings on certain maps
Comments
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I just use them to get around the map faster tbh
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Throw one at a pallet right before you break it. Throw one at a survivor before you pick them up. From what I've experienced the extra speed boost has been great. Using them with Monitor and Abuse has been fun.
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they even fail at that since you need to reload.
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I did try the picking up speed boost but I often dont see it being very useful because there is a hook around the corner often
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But he can get to a generator being completed a lot faster, which can save many gens from being popped just as you get there
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As a general rule of thumb. Using it to get around the map faster is almost pointless.
The real power comes when you are under the effects of the yellow gas while survivors are slowed down.
You catch them almost 3 times faster in that scenario.
Too many people say how purple gas is better but don't seem to realise how fast you catch up if you use them both.
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Yea I thought of that but I'm trying to find/think of common occasions where you can use both at the same time and get a hit
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Your first example is the intended use I think. You want a slow bottle on one end of a loop and a fast bottle on the other so you're sped up while they're slowed. Of course, this doesn't really work on short loops, so you'll just be using the standard slow gas most of the time. They really should've given each type of bottle its own capacity. 4 bottles isn't really enough to utilize the new ability.
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After you break a pallet during chase, after a hit, basically inbetween loops you are able to throw a speed up bottle at them, by the time you reach the cloud you speed up and during this you are throwing a slow down bottle at them next
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Not even worth it either, you are going at 125% movement speed for what 5-ish seconds. The Wraith gains 11% more speed while cloaked and look how well that is at base for mobility... using the bottles for mobility is just bad
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@TheClownIsKing *summons*
Don't know how long it takes to summon btw, just saying.
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Yea yesterday he proved me wrong in his bottels are almost useless because my number were wrong but now i'm trying to think of situations where you can use both effectively and commonly
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If a survivor has a lot of distance on you, instead of throwing 2 tonics, throw an antidote first, THEN a tonic. You'll catch up to them super fast. Antidotes aren't good for map mobility at all, but if you can get a survivor intoxicated while you're invigorated then you can pretty much guarantee a hit at most loops.
The Antidote isn't super powerful by itself, but if you combine it with the Tonic, you become a speed demon. There's a speed difference of 1.6m/s (40%), that's pretty nuts.
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Gonna try it with PWYF and just run the movement speed add ons as well.
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I'm pretty sure that the pallet thing ends ups making the survivor gain even more distance, and throwing one while picking someone up is so minor.
So far, it's kinda worked at long loops, but I probably would've gotten then with just the purple. It's sucked at mobility since its using up a bottle for like an extra 8 meters of distance.
I think it's safe to say they are kinda pointless. I mean, it's an extra option for clown, but it's just as effective as the purple, but still doesn't work at most loops in the game.
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My caveat with your example is that I've never needed more than 1 purple bottle at any loop to get a hit after putting a ton of time into Clown. The yellow gas addresses a problem he didn't have in the first place IMO.
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The new bottles don't seem all that useful. There are very specific situations they can be used but even then its pretty minimal. I hope they give clown another buff soon
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I'll post what I posted in a previous thread:
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It'll just take practice. Eventually, you'll learn how far to throw it so by the time you get there it actives/already activated so you can get the buff. Learning placements to get the most value of it while reducing the Survivors use of it would be great too. I see the potential in it, and I think it greatly increases the Clown's skill ceiling.
Since the Tonic removes the buff/slows survivors using them together could cause some real chaos. Just theorycrafting, you could place the antidote at a corner during a loop and throw the tonic at the vault. The timing could be difficult but it could be effective. But, again, it'll take time and practice but I think once people get a handle on it the Clown is going to be a bit better than he was before, especially with the reload speed increase.
I don't play Killer though so... 🤷♀️
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Sure, you usually only need a slowdown bottle but it's not like the speedup bottle is hurting you once you learn how to get value out of it.
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that isn't the best use from my experience.
The best use i have found for them is at big loop structures like jungle gyms and main buildings, the speed boost itself isn't that good for map pressure it's better for catching up to survivors just like tonic.
combining the two results in a lot of hits at these structures, it also makes it harder for survivors to abandon these structures since your invigorated so they often have to go to the next pallet which you can block off with tonic.
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How is that different from any other mobility killers cool down?
It’s 3 seconds. That’s it. 2 with Cork Stopper.
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With other killers most of the time while their ability is on cooldown they still have full movement speed. Clown's movement speed while reloading feels like ######### to be completely honest. In my honest opinion they should have increased his movement speed while reloading or given him one more bottle. Just using this ability doesn't feel great and one mistake using it sets you back much farther than a mistake as another killer would. Which again the main issue here is the movement speed while reloading and how unforgiving even the slightest mistakes with this combo is. The payoff isn't even that amazing with the effort you need to make in comparison to other killers. He's still addon dependent and he's still rather weak. Once people realize what Clown is doing with this combo he's going to be back to square one as he was prior. To me the PTB was a reload buff and that's it granted I'll take the buffs as Clown is one of my favorite killers.
Also as mentioned above there isn't a lot of opportunities to fully utilize the new bottle either. Maps just don't accommodate it.
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This.
@onemind at least you’re starting to formulate ideas on how both bottles can be used together. The tricky part is putting it into practice and figuring out ion the spot which bottle should be thrown where (because of the fast paced nature of this game), and always remembering to throw an antidote down first because of the activation period.
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Actually it works great on short loops. The problem with the tonic on its own at short loops is that the distance was way too short for Clown to close the distance while the survivor is slowed. At best it just resulted in an early pallet drop, or trading a hit for a stun.
Now with an antidote on the side Clown first needs to start travelling around before a tonic is thrown down, short loops that survivors can tightly hug aren’t a problem anymore.
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Just make sure you have more than 1 PWYF stack. A token is consumed just by throwing a bottle.
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The pallet thing was mathed out by someone. It's not worth it, you gain like .2 meters overall and then have 1 less bottle during the actual chase.
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Thank you
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Hmm I'm wondering if party gloves with the yellow feathers would make a good combination of addons because you wouldn't need to charge the yellow bottel and the feather would let you swap to the slow almost instantly granted you are using no addons that affect the bottel its self being able to throw 2 different bottles in almost 1 s may be the difference between the surivor pre dropping the pallet and a hit I shall test this theory in a bit unless you have already in that case is it any effective
Edit the feather addons seems ok. But the party gloves don't do much
Post edited by onemind on1 -
You gain about 1.3m extra distance over 5 seconds compared to just using the gas by itself... A lot of people aren't saying purple gas is better. They're saying that the chances of failure vs the gains made by using both isn't really worth it and the gains of using the antidote isn't much if anything.
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Normal chasing: 4,6m/s clown minus 4m/s survivor= 0.6 meters/second distance gained
Purple gas: 4,6m/s minus 3,4m/s= 1,2m/s so you catch up twice as fast
Yellow gas: 5,06m/s minus 4m/s= 1,06m/s about 75% faster
Purple gas + yellow gas= 5,06 m/s minus 3,4 m/s= 1,66m/s gained
Thats 275% faster chases for the time both gasses are in affect.
Like i said using it to gain distance is a waste. But dbd isn't a race game. The amount of distance traveled doesn't matter as much as how fast you close the distance between you and your prey
As an example 10 m distance means
Normal chases: about 16,5 seconds
Purple: 8.33 seconds
Yellow: 9.4 seconds
Both: 6 seconds
It makes a difference. And a pretty big one at that
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You're not including the time loss of not hitting the survivor right away with just the purple gas when throwing the yellow gas instead. You lose out on about 2.5 seconds of slowdown, which places that 6 seconds much closer to the 8.33 seconds. The problem is the time it takes to set things up, bottles used and reloads tends to minimalize the gains of the rework. Sure it's new and slightly stronger than not using them if you use them correctly but it's not exactly monstrously improved, which is why the 1.3m over 5 seconds difference I mentioned matters. 1.3m is about 1/3 of a second of distance for survivor or in other words that's the hit window you've managed to shrink. 1/3 of a second. The distance is connected to time, pointing to the small increase in distance also points to the small distance in time saved.
Post edited by Terro on0 -
The yellow gas is used mostly for loops and in case LoS blockers stop you from hitting the survivor with purple gas.
In my experience using both gasses is massivily more effective then just using the purple one.
That said it is only out for 2 days so who knows
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Bit of extra mobility ofc (It's more effective than it looks, trust me), faster downs, baiting survivors out of loops, using them during loops to down quicker, etc.
You can down a survivor quickly if they're in the open. Throw an antidote on the ground, take the speed, and then throw a tonic on the survivor, and slap 'em.
You can throw an antidote out in the open to make a survivor take the speed boost, which baits them out of loops. I haven't tried it yet but it might work.
You can also use them during loops. Even if they take the speed, you'll be pretty fast to catch up to them anyways unless they're close to the pallet. Might be efficient for safer pallets, not sure about god pallet though, I guess you'll have to rely on the tonics for shack.
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Then your direct comparison doesn't quite reflect that and you'd have to calculate if the speed gain vs reload time vs reloading more often is worth it overall. Just remember all it takes is using 1 bottle and you're back to 1 bottle per second reload time and chances are you're reloading more often. If it's yellow that one bottle gained you about 2.3m over 5 seconds, which is a time save of 0.5 seconds, which is kinda why the antidote is so meh.
I think it's just the placebo effect and the fact that the change feels more interactive.
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You did make a good point about losing the initial slowdown so let's rewind the 10m distance scenario a bit
It takes 2.5 seconds for the tonic to activate so the distance between killer and survivor when the bottle hits is 10+(2.5 times 0.6)= 11.5 meters
You can probably keep the survivor slowed for the whole duration so with 2 bottles of purple gas you catch up in 9.6 seconds
With the combination you have the 2.5 seconds before the tonic kicks in + the 6 seconds for the last 10m =8.5 seconds
So the combination still comes out ahead but not as much as i initially thought. The numbers will also be slightly closer cause the tonic doesn't last 6 seconds
Also worth noting that with 2 purple bottles the survivor was able to make 32,5 m distance (3.4m/s times 9.6)
While with the combination they are able to make 10m for the first 2.5 seconds and 20.4m for the last 6 for a total of 30.4 meters.
Which is indeed half a second saved. So i guess we are both right. The combination is better but it is pretty meh.
I still think it's worth to use the tonic but it's not as big of a difference then i first thought.
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I have found the feather addon quite effective at cutting that lost time for throwing bottels
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