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These are the reasons why the Antidote has a 2.5 second activation period.
It seems many don’t get it, and are asking for the activation period to be removed. Here’s why that’s a terrible idea.
A) It’s so Clown can PLAN around its use in conjunction with tonic WITHOUT accidentally giving survivors far too much opportunity to use the Antidote themselves.
Eg. Clown spots survivor leaving a gen he’s approaching. He throws the antidote in a far arc in the survivors direction as they flee. The survivor cannot get any benefit from the grey cloud. They HAVE to keep running because Clown is coming. By the time Clown reaches the Antidote it will have activated, and he can then follow that up with a Tonic either at, or ahead of the survivor. It’s an extremely powerful strategy.
B) It gives Clown the time he needs to set up a Tonic at a loop after first setting up an Antidote elsewhere at the loop and so that the survivor cannot just use the antidote to flee the loop while Clown is setting up a Tonic.
Eg. There were already many loops before the introduction of Antidote that required more than one tonic gas cloud. Although the effects of intoxicated do not stack, the length of time a survivor remained intoxicated could be extended if they were forced into/remained in a lot of gas. Now an Antidote can can be used first in lieu of where a Tonic would usually be thrown, and the 2.5 second activation period gives Clown the time to switch and set up a Tonic Cloud, preventing the survivor using the Antidote Cloud before Clown starts resuming chase.
“Why not just keep using 2 Tonics?!”
For 2 reasons. 1. The speed difference that is created between Clown and the survivor when Clown is Invigorated and the survivor is Intoxicated. It gives Clown the greatest chance possible to prevent the “drop the pallet early” strategy. 2. If Clown used his last 2 bottles for the set up, and the survivor instead decides to flee the loop, Clown can still use the Antidote Cloud to give chase. Previously if a survivor fled from a 2 Tonic set up that they knew made the loop dangerous, Clown just had to hope he still had enough bottles left.
C) There’s another reason I was just reminded about. Another reason there is an activation period, and this is also tied into WHY they also positively affect survivors, it is to prevent a Clown player from spamming them/abusing them during a chase. We’re (now) talking about a killer that can simultaneously speed himself up whilst slowing survivors down, WITHOUT sacrificing ANY base agility or control sensitivity, and can still vault windows. Just look at all the other mobility killers. As we go up in speed, it’s usually at the cost of turn rate, and other restrictions. Clown doesn’t have ANY restrictions on his own movement in set ups that speed him up, and slow survivors down. There HAD to be caveats that prevent spam and abuse of the antidote.
Comments
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If antidote didnt have any cooldown you can just throw it on the ground, change to tonic as you move with the speed boost and be close enough to hit the survivor with the tonic more accurately. I don't think it has a cooldown because it will be weak. I think it does because it might be strong but I can't say why though.
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The activation time is there also so newer clowns wouldn’t accidentally throw it at the survivor instead of a tonic causing them to speed up
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I kind of wish that Tonics and Antidotes didn't use the same pool of bottles but this is still interesting.
I gotta admit, I really want to try and get better at using the Antidote.
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It also introduces skill to playing clown if you want to use both bottles.
I feel that a lot of the players who want it to instantly activate are just too lazy to get good at using antidote correctly.
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I think the timer should be slightly shorter or have an addon that either removes the timer or also makes it shorter. There's been numerous times where I've thrown the bottle quite far and it still hasn't activated by the time I've caught up to it. Maybe a 2 second timer rather than the 2.5.
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so... nothing?
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2.5 is way too much. They should make it 2.0.
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From the gameplay I've seen, if you don't time it perfectly (which is extremely hard and only works in very open stretches of space) it's pointless. If you have to stop moving for a second or two for the gas to speed you up, you've done nothing but lose a bottle. When it works, it saves you a few seconds which is nice, but that's 1 less bottle
Turns out all he really needed was a buff to his reload speed.
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I see your point but still... I think the cooldown should be at least -0.5 seconds lower.
But I am not clown main so I can be wrong.
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This was how I felt when playing him in the PTB. I am fine with him having the cooldown, but I think it could stand to be reduced by just a hair.
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If you are waiting you aren't getting anything out of the bottle AND you used it poorly. It takes practice but saying your bad play with it shows it isn't effective is a poor argument.
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The activation time should still be a bit shorter in my opinion.
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Please re-read my post... I haven't played Clown since the rework, so your insults missed the mark. The gameplay I've seen is from Tru3talent, Hexy, and Otzdarva.
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IE the survivors shouldn't be getting buffed by it in the first place and then none of these things are necessary.
Just a lot of unnecessary extra steps. The 2.5 second delay is there to make you play around things you shouldn't have to be playing around in the first place.
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Yeah, Im not going to waste a bottle on a mediocre speed boost when I can use my bottles to slow down the survivor.
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I wouldn't say so. To me, the 2.5 second activation time is like if Blight had to wait 2.5 second before he could press his Blight charge, I'm certain that a lot of blight would say his power having 2.5 second delay before it activates feels bad.
I'm not even sure what you mean it adds skill to clown's gameplay, what the skill of holding a bottle for 1.25~ second and throwing it ahead of yourself to get speed boost? Clown's skill has always been related to his understand of perception of distance and his ability to land After-piece tonics at the survivor regardless of distance in order to get hits.
To OP, all that having 2.5 second delay has done has made clown unable to time speed boost precisely when he wants it. If people turn tight corners or changing routing, its almost borderline not usable of certains maps... like Lery or Hawkins, far too many tight corners. It also adds setup time for clown which very Akin to killers like the Hag setting traps at loops. if you want yellow gas and than purple gas it, people can leave the loop.
For something that should be simple as land purple bottle->throw yellow bottle on yourself, they've made it much more complicated for no reason and much more restricted.
I found one neat usage for where activation delay ends up benefiting clown and that is when you throw yellow bottle pointblank at the survivor and hit them. the cooldown of the killer recovering on a hit aligns with him getting speed boost but you could do that by hitting survivor, recovering and than throwing a bottle on yourself if it was instant. The same could be said for almost any other conceived use for it.
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yeah but tell me is there skill to simply throwing a speed boost onto yourself?
The answer is no unlike tonic, antidote is something you want to only be used by you so being able to just throw it at your feet for it's effect with almost no good way for the survivor to try to use without getting hit that is not skillful it's brain dead easy.
like at that point they might as well just have him drink the bottle at instant speed for the effect.
edit: i do think they need to slightly decrease the activation time for antidote but not by much.
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I am saying that the skill is not greater. Just more restrictive(less useful power). my analogy to this is that washing dishes is never going to be harder than doing brain surgery. Clown having more situational speed boost is not going to make him harder to play. It will just make him weaker globally on a killer that was not particularly amazing in the first place.
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If you’re already that close, there’s no need for an instant antidote because you’re already close enough to hit them.
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I can get behind that. 2 seconds should still be enough time at loops for Clown to set up a Tonic without the survivor being cheeky and using the antidote to leave the loop.
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I’m almost certain that the reason Antidote can positively effect survivors is to prevent Clown players from spamming them, something that was already common with Tonics across many Clowns before this update.
I.e. Force players to learn how to be strategic with Clown, which is exactly what he is: a strategic killer.
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Good grief!!! How are people not getting it?!?! You don’t just use one or the other (sometimes just a Tonic is still fine), you use BOTH together.
Clown gets the most out of setting up a Antidote he can Invigorate himself with whilst then FORCING a survivor through a tonic that slows them.
How can people NOT see the benefit, and how STRONG it is to have Clown SPEED UP around the same time frame as SLOWING SURVIVORS DOWN?!
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If there were no activation then what would stop a Clown from:
- Hitting someone then instantly throwing an antitode at their feet.
- Catch up with the survivor with speed buff
- Throw an intoxicated bottle to slow the survivor
Imagine these with STBL. If there were no activation, Clown would become probably the best killer to chase survivors with as you would need to throw an antidote at your feet and other bottles at survivors and repeat until you catch them.
I do feel like 2.5 seconds is a tad too long. I very often would get the effect as soon as I'm leaving the cloud, like right at the edge. A 2 seconds activation period would be super nice. I'm against addons that decrease the activation period.
Getting value out of antidote bottles in enclosed spaces such as Hawkins can be a little bit rough as you need to look down to aim further and there are a lot of corners / hallways
Feel like the best way to get value out of the clown changes is to use the addons that increase bottles to a max of 5, respectively 6 and a reload addon.
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@Devil_hit11 if a survivor just leaves the loop, Clown can still run through the Antidote to charge down the survivor.
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I’m glad you get it. No activation period at all would lead to abuse like you mentioned: spamming them at Clowns feet without thought.
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I have yet to use the new bottles. But I'm at rank 1 and go against other red ranks 90% of the time. I'll start to experiment when rank reset hits, but not right now.
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I would say ask yourself this question regarding the 2nd bottle 1. Is the effect of the 2nd bottle worth the cost of using it and 2. In a chase will using the 2nd bottle help me get the hit that the 1st bottle wouldnt.
If we look at the 2nd bottle in terms of map mobility which is the weakest part of the clown. Sadly it doesnt offer much at all 10% movement speed but you have to wait 2.75 seconds for it to activate and you gain a extra 2 meters cause of it but guess what survivors can get it aswell which makes it a mute point.
So in summary for one bottle which is shared between the two type of bottles you have to wait 2.75 seconds to activate to gain a extra 2 meters which survivors can also use aswell so using the 2nd bottle for map mobility is not worth the cost even if the survivors dont take advantage of it.
So what if we use it in a chase instead I would ask why would you use something that takes time to activate that survivors can use aswell instead of the normal slowdown bottle that is a instant and a negative for survivors and does the job well just doesnt make sense at all. I would argue if that the 2nd bottle doesnt offer anything different then the 1st bottle infact i would argue the 1st bottle does the job better than using the 2nd in all variations of loops and wouldnt run the risk of survivors getting the benefits
So overall the only thing i can say is a buff is the reload speed this whole 2nd bottle was a waste of time and resource it could of been something interesting but im looking at this 2nd bottle thinking why use it it's not worth the cost at all in its current form
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It’s not a map mobility tool. Clown never needed map mobility. As long as he has insanely short chases, he’s golden, and it puts a LOT of pressure on the survivors.
And as I repeatedly said, now in chases there are MANY situations where it’s wise to use BOTH, not choose between one or the other. The activation period gives Clown the time he needs to also throw a tonic, and the activation period also prevents the survivor from using the antidote themselves while Clown is setting up a tonic.
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Me and some other guy did the math... It saves/gives/buys you half a second of time to a second after factoring in time to set up using both.
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That's what I'm saying.
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At the expense of bad routing. what was once good routing for clown now becomes bad routing for him and good routing for survivor. Its good technique for making clown waste bottles and making him reload more and if he reloads in bad places, all the better, more shift-w, you save pallets and chases are just as long as any other killer. Its almost like pilot is saying that the clown rework would be strong at ending chases, what a novel idea.
You don't really need to take my word for it being lackluster. I went to look for a video to see what other people think about yellow gas. you can just look at any content creator for their opinion on yellow gas. Ohtofu says its only good for moving around the map and even then its not worth it because of reload. I have no more interested in commenting anymore regarding this topic.
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IMO the yellow gas now is mediocre risk, low reward mechanics compared to his purple one, which is low risk, medium to high reward.
Of course people are gonna stick with purple bottle.
They need to either increase speed boost, decrease activation time, split counter for both bottle, etc. Either one can be applied to make it more useful, so you can see them more often.
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Saves you half a second of time (2.3m) over 5 seconds at the cost of one bottle and reloading more often.
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Any struggles I may be having with the antidote bottles are mostly my own fault, just a part of learning how to use a new ability. I do wish the activation period was toned down just a little bit, to 2 seconds like some people are saying. Besides that though, I have had many moments of sheer schadenfreude against survivors who think it's a good idea to underestimate Mr. Puddles. They never see it coming.
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That second to half second can be the difference between a survivor vaulting was n time, or reaching a pallet in time.
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