Why They Can Never Make Clown Good
Clown is widely considered one of the worst killers even post-rework due to his underwhelming power, but unless his power is completely reworked I don't think BHVR can ever make him good for one simple reason: Counterplay. Currently the counterplay to Clown is just to drop palettes early and abuse his lack of ability to prevent palette vaulting. This isn't considered fun or engaging counterplay by many.
If Clown was made "good" to the point where he is even in top 10, it would be unfair that a killer who's power you cannot avoid (against any half-decent clown at least) would be good. Clown's unavoidable power is only alleviated by the fact that he is still a low mobility M1 killer (and also the calcs were done and clown gets essentially no distance from the new gas).
Comments
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I'm going to have to disagree with you the clown is plenty powerful when played in the right hands
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I personally don't think Clown is in a bad spot because every killer has their weaknesses. Let me explain:
Clown may be stellar in chase & can end them within seconds, but he has almost no mobility. The new bottles they gave him don't help him much imo.
The opposite could be said for Oni, who is a regular M1 killer in chase until he gets his power & has amazing mobility.
See my point? Every killer has their own playstyle. This is why we have perks as well, to correlate with the killers power.
Don't get me wrong, Clown is weak af when compared to other killers, but most killers in general are weak in some way.
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I'm curious about what you'd say about Freddie.
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Clown has never been bad tbh. His chase game is really good a strategic slugging and use of slowdown perks keeps the game going too fast.
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I personally think they need to nerf Freddy & take away his passive sleep. If they did that, he is practically useless until he hits a survivor into dreamworld, which is where he excels the most.
Now if I were to base this off of what I said, that would mean his mobility would be his strong-suit & his snares/dream pallets would be the weak side of him considering he has to work for it (hitting the survivor).
Sounds too good to be true, doesn't it? I have a feeling they're going to make Freddy weak again.
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If I were to buff the power more; I would make it so that each bottle would not only slow the Survivors down but also buff the Clown's movement speed! But not in separate bottles! The Survivors have pallets has counterplay; so clown should have a way to fight looping!
Also as a add bonus; thr bottles effect Generator's repair and make it regress! Sure, the gas will start the regression cycle; but what if the bottles when it hits the Generator directly as sort of a Micro "Pop goes the Weasel" and make it lose 15 seconds worth of progress for free! (Keep in mind, the bottles cannot be used again to regress a regressing Generator with sparks on it; that would be OP)
These new changes would make clown a scary killer to be chase by; while not wasting even more bottles deal with the fact that Safe (God) & Average Pallets would deny him a hit around the loop! Plus, the Bottles effecting Generators would be a massive improvement in rewarding good clown players that have excellent throw!
Since he coughs alot; I would assume that he used to the bottles effects alot and just simply gain benefit of speed boost instantly per bottle throw regardless!
If you do not like these buff suggestions; just Rework his power entirely as it has too many counterplays besides the safe pallets drops and antidote giving Survivors advantages!
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Love that 2nd idea of gen regression if you throw one of his bottles at one. Though, this might be better as an addon instead because I feel like it'd be quite OP, especially at a 3-gen.
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Uff I hate when you encounter that guy that only plays freedy over and over.. Hes such an ez wins killer and everyone use the the same predictible builds stbfl+sloppy+pop+bwarden or noed. Plus his "long arm of the law" always get you xD
There nothing you can do about dream pallets other than crossing the entire map to reach only 1 of the 2 clocks, and the time you are awake when interacting with it don't really compensate. Also that teleport recharge really fast.
But for some unknow reason they didn't make a single change to him after his update. And in other cases we have killers like pig that got severely nerfed and is crying in a corner.
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Exactly. Freddy is definitely the killer who needs a nerf the most right now (besides Spirit).
Also, your "long arm of the law" bit made me laugh xD
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Well, that can be avoid if people know how to not to do a 3 Gen! Sure thr killer can be good at pressure Survivors and force them to do the far gens which creates 3 gen scenarios! But, like Pop Goes the Weasel; just simply do not tap the Generator in the Clown's vicinity; as clown will notice the gen progress and or Survivors touching it; and throw a bottle towards it! Plus, if they hit the bottle on the gen multiple times; and the Survivors stay put and keeping repairing after the bottle hit ans effects! They are playing dumb by allowing the killer to fully regression the gen to more progress lost then 10-15 second every time! Simply put; you need to mentally not work on the gens when he is close or group up and fix it quickly!
Also, if he running Pop Goes The Weasel and has this power by default together; he cannot used them both at the same time; especially on a regressing Generator! He would have to kick it, leave it alone unless he found someone!
But if a 3 gen happens, then he just as strong as Doctor and well, Survivors screw themselves up for that! Decent Survivors would understand the map and Generator spawn points; and plan out their gen fix accordingly; especially the perks they have to help them find gens, and a map to run!
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I can agree with this on a stand point, as a Clown main you really need to memorize the map area, and constantly use your head to your advantage, I can score 4ks on him for days
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He’s like deathslinger except instead of mechanical skill he is strategic thinking.
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The Clown’s perks actually help him a lot. Pop destroys gens whenever he does catches people, which is why Pop works on everyone. Coulrophobia slows healing within his TR, and is nasty with his Sulfuric Acid (Considerably Mangled + Coulro). Bamboozle can force players into ultimatums. Either take the hit, or waste a pallet to get away. Bamboozle is pretty good at removing the God Pallets in killer sheds, the Cow Tree, etc. Usually the 4th move for me would be Distressing (For Coulro), Brutal Strength, Spirit Fury, or Nurses. It’s usually Nurses. The Clown not only needs mobility he needs to be able to see exactly where people are so he knows where to aim the bottles where he thinks the survivors are running. Coulro also allows slugging too. 1 tap is like 5 tap without WGLF, etc.
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Basically, I think he is one of the most underrated killers, and I rank him in mid B tier at least, the ability to confuse the survivor with the tonic helps you toa great advantage, and the ability to catch up quickly is there also
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I’d put him low B next to doc and plague
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After they removed the slowdown after bottle throw, clow was so much better to play! And even more importantly.... Fun!
Now yes, against strong teams he will struggle, but if you put in the time to learn him , he can be very lethal. The only thing i thing I'd change is the grunt he makes after a vault.
Clown is on my top 3 favourite killers to play, and when i lose most times is because i suck fecal factory disposer, and not because of the killer himself
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What makes Freddy "boring" to play against is the exact same thing that makes Clown boring.
The only reason you hear people complain about Freddy and not Clown is because of how strong Freddy is. This is why they don't want to buff Clown much.
Both their core powers which are slowing/anti-loop are unfun to play against. There's very little interaction and you're just dropping pallets early.
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This is wrong, run chloroform and bleach together even against god tier pallets unless it's a pallet you have to break to get to the other side of the survivor can be played around easily with those addons. His counterplay is only easy against terrible clown players. Which is 99.999% of people who try to play clown. Corn maps are an absolute joke for clown because with chloroform the gas seeps through the other side of the jungle gyms if you throw the bottle on top of the wall. You literally do not need to break any pallet besides shack on corn maps and most maps. I don't know how you can say doctor is any better because his anti loop isn't even that great to begin with even if you use it right, it can still be a while if the survivor plays it right.
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I can't believe anyone who says clown is the worst killer when Trapper exists.
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Me reading all this getting 4ks at rank 1 regularly even before the buff...
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No ones getting it.
His new power DOES address the whole “drop the pallet early” strategy.
If the player is smart, they can make sure they’re Invigorated at the same time as Intoxicating a survivor, and get a hit in before a survivor even reaches a pallet to begin with.
And another thing, now at loops if a clown does an antidote and tonic set up (instead of 2 Tonics), if the survivor realised the danger and leaves the loop, Clown still has the antidote cloud to to speed him up and still charge the survivor down.
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Except there’s something Clown can do that Doc (or any other killer) can’t: direct the chase.
I’ve lost count of the amount of times I’ve successfully tricked survivors AWAY from the shack because I made my gas set ups seem WAY too risky to the survivor.
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I've been playing Clown for a bit after the rework, most of my games i get a 3k-4k, yesterday i completely outplayed a good group of survivors with Pop Goes the Weasel, i would say he's a decent killer
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Ok. I’ll give you that. But it’s nowhere near the extent that Clown can “herd” survivors.
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"Widely considered one of the worst killers" doesn't mean a killer is strictly bad, there will always be that killer that is the worst. The only killer I can think of being worse than Clown are three others. Myers, Doctor, Pig and Clown are the four killers that are interchangeably considered "the worst".
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If he ran around with a huge chubby he'd immediately be a lot better
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