The experience of not using meta perks is a frustrating one.
Decide I want to be a healer, all healing perks. Tunneled out of the game with 5 gens left in under two minutes thanks to nothing but deadzones and no obsession, and an unpleasant farm with no BT.
Decide to try to do a wacky killer build that switches the obsession around frequently with rancor, but because I don't have any kind of slowdown in effect and I'm not using a strong killer, my chance to use the perks is an extremely short one as gen pressure can be too difficult without the right killer kit.
Decide I want to loot? See above, tunneled out before I can find a chest.
Decide to play a killer with a bunch of aura reading perks but no strong kit? Well, it was a nice attempt.
It is incredibly frustrating to be pushed towards meta builds regardless of killing or surviving simply so you can have a game that lasts longer than 5 minutes, and I wish there were an easy fix for it.
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It will take a while for you to stabilize. Using meta perks would propel you to a level where you get matched against stronger opponents. Removing them would lead to a rough first few games. You need to take the L and stabilize your rank and adapt to your new perks before you can expect a positive outcome
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Killers need meta perks because they need gen slow and any good slowdown perks are considered "meta."
Survivors basically just need an exhaustion perk to do well.
At least in my experience at Rank 1
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I have 4,000 hours in this game, I don't need stabilizing, I just want to vent about the inability to play well without ######### games if you want to just run fun builds.
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killers literally force survivors to run meta with the way 85% of them play. it sucks.
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Sometimes it feels that way, it usually ends up with me being like "Fine, I guess I'm switching to DH, DS, and BT again because that's what the night needs" and the moment I do I get matched with a rank 18 trapper who shouldn't be anywhere close to my lobbies. I'm not sure why so many people are playing like this when every killer game I get at rank 1 is just easy wins unless I'm running bad things on purpose for a meme
All I'm trying to do is loot some event items, and man people are playing pretty unfun ways. I'm tempted to play my killer games with Hoarder and let people looking event items leave
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yes that's EXACTLY how it goes lmao. i try to run a fun locker build (which killers hate for some reason??? i love going against survivors with locker builds, it's ######### fun and fresh), get tunnelled to ######### and then throw on good old meta only to destroy a baby killer.
events do tend to bring out a little extra sweat i've noticed.
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Getting downed is a skill issue not a perk problem, Survivors relying on bailout perks only masks shortcomings as peak performance can dominate without any perks. With killers it depends how skilled the survivors are. Gen defense can prolong a match with good survivors while also proving overwhelming/useless when they are bad.
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Not with as many killers that have no counter or outplay it really isn't, and not with newly remade maps that have a total of 4 pallets. The game as it is is incredibly killer sided in terms of resources and powers.
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The best proof that the game is heavy survivor sided is to try to play without perk, or with a off meta build.
You'll quickly realize that half the killers are almost unusable without a strong set of perks to act as a crutch.
And let's not even talk about the addons, since BHV decided that they were the second crutch that killers NEED to use in order to be viable.
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KEKW, cry me a river, the killer are the bad guys (well...) forcing the poor surivors to stacks all the second chances possible!
On the other hand, it's perfectly normal that killers are unplayable without a super strong build and addons.
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All killers can be beat without perks and many have weaknesses built-in to provide counter windows. It again comes back to skill, yours vs the killers cause mechanically survivors have the advantage of potential negation of any killer action and applied time pressure on the killer. The only way without any counter is simply keep running until downed which shows a serious lack of skill, map routing/positioning, and understanding of the killer design. Killer is backed by a human player, they can make mistakes, get confused, and be outplayed.
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Spirit, Deathslinger, Pyramid Head, and Nurse in the right hands have no counter. If you think anything otherwise then we don't have anything further to discuss as you clearly don't know how the game at its core works.
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So by right hands, do you mean a player more skilled than you? When are you hoping for a counter, after your in chase or injured? I have no issue with being bested by players that have put in the time to be better or at least capitalize on my mistakes. I've followed this game since before nurse and hands-on since we got huntress, never once finding new additions beyond our capability. I play survivor more now because we have the power to dictate the match regardless if our own skills allow us to perform at that peak. Killer design varies in how they benefit the player but design alone does nothing to ensure a win without skill.
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I love how very peremptory you seem to constantly be, it's especially funny since... yaknow, you are constantly wrong.
No, the game isn't killer sided, let alone "incredibly killer sided", no Spirit, Deathslinger, PyramidHead or even Nurse DO have counterplay.
The simple fact that you are so wrong on thos points make me think that you are either a pretty bad killer yourself, or yet another survivor main that tries to pretend he is a killer to ######### on that side of the game.
Also, here's a reality check that I feel you need : Surivors arent supposed to be able to "outplay" all the killer all the time, otherwise no game could ever be anything other than an easy 4 escape with the killer running after a single survivor all game long.
The point of the game is to have the killer wast time runing after people while the rest of the team work on gens, it's a thug of war, if the killer couldn't systmatically catch anyone they chase, it would be even more unplayable than it already is, because let's face it, a good survivor that know the tiles, how to loop and where to go can EASILY make a killer run for long enough for 4 gens to be done, if not more. We are to a point where the killer often is forced to drop chases because the time it will take to complete them has became too long for it to be worth the gen trade. Hell, if anything the game only "works" because so many survivors are frankly aweful at the game and make mistakes that the killer can then exploit. But without thos mistakes, the killer is almost powerless to stop the survivors, that's also why SWF are such a problem, they get a global strategy and infos that help them make less mistake, thus reducing drastically the options of the killer.
This alone should be proof that no, the game isn't "heavily survivor sided"
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You can’t run “fun builds” because Camping, Tunneling and Slugging don’t have any built-in mechanic counter.
Devs made it pretty clear during their last stream when they all shrugged at the thought of a survivor being hardcore camped.
This also confirms that meta perks will stay meta.
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This is something I really dislike about DBD's current design. Major fundamental issues in the games' design or balance are relegated to various perks (tunneling/camping prevention, gen slowdown).
I do wish there was a base kit mechanic in the game to dissuade or prevent killers from tunneling rather than just the fear of someone having BT/DS and that gen speed was balanced more appropriately so that a bunch of slowdown perks don't feel necessary against survivors that are slamming gens hard.
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Not more skilled, just using cheap killer powers or addons that don't really give you a method of doing anything about it regardless of skill.
A fine example is Pyramid Head, even after his "nerf" he still has the ability to down you at a pallet regardless of your action. They made a fix that didn't actually fix the issue, if he drops his sword at a pallet as you run through, if you drop it he will typically, if playing right, be far enough away that you won't get the stun, and he will use his beam and down you in the action. If you don't drop the pallet and dodge to the left or right, he will pick up his sword and have ample time to walk through the pallet and hit you.
This isn't a matter of being a better player, you are just damned if you do, damned if you don't. Spirit operates in many similar ways, you don't know if she's phasing, so the "stand still mindgame" will always guarantee a hit or down as long as the killer doesn't ######### it up.
Compare this to Billy, Huntress, or Demo who have powers that require you to predict how they might play, but reward you accordingly for doing so. A huntress running you at shack might predict you going for a window, so you think of this and don't take it, if you did what she thought, you get the hit. Demo works similarly with his lunge.
Billy is super enjoyable because he punishes you harshly for ######### up, while still can run tiles with standard play otherwise. It makes chases on these killers super enjoyable, both against and while playing as them.
The killers I initially mentioned tend to have a "you do well in chase only if the killer themselves ######### up" which makes for a fine game against a newer or inexperienced one of the killers, but in hands which have hours behind the killer, it just makes for unsatisfying chases that end extremely quickly with little to no merit on your own skill in them, and they do this quickly enough that in many cases it is simply enough to win games.
Hopefully this clears up what I mean by this statement.
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The game is designed for players to use perks. And it's only natural that the better the opponents you get matched against, the stronger the stuff you will have to use. That happens in every game and that's how the meta emerges.
Also, there's some cognitive dissonance in your post. If you use a switch-around Rancor build, then you actually want generators to be completed.
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Fair points for those situations. Skilled players on both side can make the other feel lacking in options.
With ph pallets are poor choice/weak positioning on the survivor's part. The counter to his abilities don't lie primarily in chase but in the avoidance of his affliction. Dodge his range or drop the pallet for a buffer, trying both is risky if your not properly gauging the distance. Being baited and creating a preemptive failure is a skilled play on their part. I wouldn't stand at the pallet for huntress or deathslinger, why ph?
Spirit, well I wouldn't use the stand still tactic more than once or they are noticably bad. I prefer to utilize scratches from a loop to mask my direction and her lack of visuals, breaking chase and forcing her into searching. Trying to straight loop her usually goes poorly unless they have bad movement. You can tell if she really phases when there is vegetation nearby but staying stationary plays to her advantage, just walking distance can put her swing out of range. The stand still tactic is her mind game not the survivors.
I agree that when played well these killers can make quick downs, though addressing the danger of a killer is not limited to chase alone. The variety in killers also calls for a variety in how they are approached. Running every killer for a loop is not the only or the best option. Stealth is a powerful tool not just for preventing a chase but misdirection while in it and all without sacrificing a health state when done right.
As to your last point regarding the speed at which the can steamroll downs; even with consecutive downs time is in favor of focused survivors. Streamers have the best examples of this. Less than 15sec chases and immediately finding targets only to watch everyone leave. But nothing is guaranteed when based off human interaction.
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I use fun builds all the time in solo queue and don't have the same experience. Sure there are times I wished I had BT so I could get the proxy camp safe. Or had DH to prolong a chase. But I don't get camped/tunneled/ slugged more and my escape rate is the same. The killer does not know I have a fun build and will often respect the DS/DH/BT I do not have.
Not using meta requires a different playstyle; I did that perkless achievement before I started using fun builds making you really appreciative of ANY perk you have. You'll also be surprised at all the outplay potential a perk like lightweight gives simply because killers do not expect it. Killers see loads of meta perks but the moment you bring something like quick and quiet they get bamboozled if you use it smart.
Fun builds need you to make the most of what you have, a new fun build requires adjusting. I'm currently running QandQ/dance with me/windows of opportunity/ kindred. It's a good strong build for me in solo; I know what pallets haven't been used, can coordinate with kindred info and make a play in chase with the other perks. Items are optional, medkits are the strongest.
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They should always have an obsession in the lobby regardless of perks imo. Just makes the game less annoying
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I’m all for buffing perks like dead mans switch but you can use nemesis or furtive chase to get more obsession value.
No obsession lobbies are just really unfun to play on because the killer can unmelted with no consequences. The only people who like these lobbies are the ones who abuse them
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I think the issue is that some perks help so much that it gets difficult to play without them. Some of these perks can hinder progress imo.
I play as Doctor and run Whispers almost every build to help me locate survivors. As much as I try to incorporate a different perk over Whispers, I struggle to find people and not waste SB. My current build is Whispers, Corrupt Intervention, PGTW and Oppression.
As a survivor I don't play as much (only Elodie is level 40 lol), but I feel that some perks help a good deal while others don't help. My killer build above doesn't have any totems or traps, so Detectives Hunch is a complete waste for survivors who are playing with essentially 3 perks.
But the staples of both killers and survivors are all decent perks. I thinknuts possible to play perkless as killer and have decent results (see OhTofu), but a survivor playing perkless seems dangerous at the least. So i think killers have more leeway for off meta builds rather than survivors.
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Can't disagree with that.
It feels really like some perks should be just part of the base game now in a way or another.
Gens should regress baseline (same with endgame doors) and kick should actually be worst wasting the time on them (make them a 10% flat reduction), on the other side, BT or undying could totally be baseline too (but not DS, ######### DS).
The problem si that, on both side, you have at least 2 or 3 "must have" perks that have clearly been shaping the balancing of the game for a while now, and that's just bad. What's the point of having 400 perks in the game if you only have 1 slots to put them on because the rest are hard locked by other stuff?
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When I play with Friends, we have nights where all play meme perks and have a blast. some nights we crush it and have 3 out of 4 escape 95% of games. Sometimes its turn rough, but you need to have some fun in the game.
If you can't just have fun regardless of dying, then thats on you. This game is in a ######### place, and either find some fun with friends with it, or honestly, get the ######### out as its something I can't imagine playing solo on purpose.
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just embrace the ub/dh/ds/bt, the game becomes more pleasant when if you get farmed or tunneled you literally don't give a #########
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As survivor meta perks won't really matter you can bring the worst survivor perks and still escape if you know how to loop or if your team rushes the gens. But at high ranks I have to run DH and DS. For killer if you bring high tier killers like nurse/spirit or freddy you can run fun builds from my experience. It gets harder with non meta killers.
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