When have you won?

MisterCremaster

I think one of the biggest problems with this game is that there is not an defined win condition. Its a crucial aspect of game design to set a defined win condition, yet DbD has a major lack of one. Is it escaping? Getting 4 sacrifices? Getting the most BP?

For me:
Killer: 3 Kills
Survivor: At least 2 survivors escaping (doesn't need to me)

Rex_Huin

3 kills feels like a win to me. 2 feels like a loss.

Myself escaping is the only time I feel like I won when playing survivor.

MegaWaffle

This isn't a problem for Killers because you can define your "win" condition however you like. With survivors however you are part of a team and if 1 or multiple teammates have conflicting win conditions that is where things can get frustrating. Most play with SWF so this isn't an issue but I only ever play solo survivor (if I'm not running killer) and for me escaping ,be it me or my teammates, is my "win" condition. Often I end up being the gen jocky while other potatoes runs around the map...

will_i_am_14_85

Killer: 3 kills = win, 2 kill = tie
Survivor: Pipped = win

Tsulan

Killer: 4k with double pip.
Survivor: 3k with double pip.

MisterCremaster

@Tsulan 3k means that 3 survivors escaped? (I've always assumed k= killed)

Orion

As Killer: >2 kills is a win, 2 is a tie, <2 is a loss.
As Survivor: Surviving.

Might_Oakk

Ask Conan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo9buo9Mtos

Dwight_Fairfield

As a survivor, any time I survive is a win.

MisterCremaster

So lots of similar responses for killer which is good. That win condition is probably pretty established.

I've gotten "constructive" feedback at the end of matches because I survived, and still may not have earned as many blood points. Like @MegaWaffle I'm probably doing gens while the other 3 fight over who can rescue who from the hook. If I weren't doing gens, we'd likely have ALL died.

I'm wondering if the awarding of BP could somehow be balanced on how many survivors actually survived. So, even if I died, but did 3 gens while my other members played ring-around-the-hooksie, I'd still get as many blood points as them. It just seems like to a lot of players, BP is the answer to winning, and I'd like it to be about surviving as a team.

For those that mentioned pipping, I'd be curious to cross referencing your posts to find out if you're also complaining about de-ranking and playing at high levels (I've NEVER been concerned about pipping, so this idea is just totally foreign to me)

Tsulan

@MisterCremaster said:
@Tsulan 3k means that 3 survivors escaped? (I've always assumed k= killed)

No, 3 killed survivors, me being the only one who escaped

MegaWaffle

@MisterCremaster
I would like to see a re balance of BP because so many times I'll do 3-5 gens completely solo but because the killer was busy chasing others and not me I end up with 5-10k less BP then everyone else. Even if I'm the only escaping survivor.

Tsulan

@MegaWaffle said:
@MisterCremaster
I would like to see a re balance of BP because so many times I'll do 3-5 gens completely solo but because the killer was busy chasing others and not me I end up with 5-10k less BP then everyone else. Even if I'm the only escaping survivor.

I think they should remove the point limit per category. It made sense, when the ranking was still based on points. But now?
The points for completing a gen should be somewhere like the ones for completing in coop.

Mister_xD

Killer: 3 Kills
Survivor: When I escaped / when i got a pip

for me its never rly about the winning, its about the fun. if i only kill 1 person, but had a ton of fun, thats counts as a victory too. same goes for survivor.

MisterCremaster

@Tsulan & @MegaWaffle I'd be curious to see a system where survivors earn BP as a team. A survivor who is dead, is awarded the "teams points" when they either A) disconnect from the game, or the game is completed while they're hanging around. But this would encourage people to play more as a team, and have a clearer objective (get some survivors, do gens, etc), and not EVERYONE will try to go for the unhook. There is a benefit to helping the OTHER survivors survive.

I'd also like the idea of giving the killer a portion of those points too, but I'm not sure how that would work.

Tsulan

MisterCremaster said:

@Tsulan & @MegaWaffle I'd be curious to see a system where survivors earn BP as a team. A survivor who is dead, is awarded the "teams points" when they either A) disconnect from the game, or the game is completed while they're hanging around. But this would encourage people to play more as a team, and have a clearer objective (get some survivors, do gens, etc), and not EVERYONE will try to go for the unhook. There is a benefit to helping the OTHER survivors survive.

I'd also like the idea of giving the killer a portion of those points too, but I'm not sure how that would work.

DC bonus could work based on the points that survivor had when he disconnected. 

Team points while being hooked. That's a tough one.  Maybe points when a gen is completed where that survivor repaired 25%.

Vietfox

When u don't get mad for petty things.

MisterCremaster

@Tsulan said:

Team points while being hooked. That's a tough one.  Maybe points when a gen is completed where that survivor repaired 25%.

To be clear, I don't mean "hanging around on the hook", I mean if you feel like you've had a great game and deserve you're share of the winnings you could not disconnect immediately upon being sacrificed and continue to earn some points. The idea being, you're sacrifice and contributions prior to being sacrificed contributed to the greater good and should thusly be rewarded.

Although, continuing to earn team points while being hooked would keep people from sacrificing themselves when they don't feel like their teammates are coming, and wouldn't make the game feel like such a ######### loss if they're hooked in a bad spot right away.

I have no idea how to balance that from sandbaggers or leaches.

Tsulan

@MisterCremaster said:

@Tsulan said:

Team points while being hooked. That's a tough one.  Maybe points when a gen is completed where that survivor repaired 25%.

To be clear, I don't mean "hanging around on the hook", I mean if you feel like you've had a great game and deserve you're share of the winnings you could not disconnect immediately upon being sacrificed and continue to earn some points. The idea being, you're sacrifice and contributions prior to being sacrificed contributed to the greater good and should thusly be rewarded.

Although, continuing to earn team points while being hooked would keep people from sacrificing themselves when they don't feel like their teammates are coming, and wouldn't make the game feel like such a ######### loss if they're hooked in a bad spot right away.

I have no idea how to balance that from sandbaggers or leaches.

By changing the struggle phase to require skill checks instead of spamming space.
If you hit a great skill check, you get some additional seconds on the hook. If you fail it, you instantly die.

Peasant

Default conditions:
2 escape, 2 sacrificed - draw
3+ escape,1- sacrificed - survs win
1- escape, 3+ sacrificed - killer win

My conditions:
As long as someone dies I'm technically a killer.
"Prepare for the worst and hope for the best."

Orion

@Tsulan said:

@MisterCremaster said:

@Tsulan said:

Team points while being hooked. That's a tough one.  Maybe points when a gen is completed where that survivor repaired 25%.

To be clear, I don't mean "hanging around on the hook", I mean if you feel like you've had a great game and deserve you're share of the winnings you could not disconnect immediately upon being sacrificed and continue to earn some points. The idea being, you're sacrifice and contributions prior to being sacrificed contributed to the greater good and should thusly be rewarded.

Although, continuing to earn team points while being hooked would keep people from sacrificing themselves when they don't feel like their teammates are coming, and wouldn't make the game feel like such a ######### loss if they're hooked in a bad spot right away.

I have no idea how to balance that from sandbaggers or leaches.

By changing the struggle phase to require skill checks instead of spamming space.
If you hit a great skill check, you get some additional seconds on the hook. If you fail it, you instantly die.

And if they get multiple skill checks in a row, given that good Survivors playing on non-potato PCs can hit great skill checks on a fairly consistent basis, they'll just be unkillable.

HellDescent

A truckload of salt

AChaoticKiller

For me as survivor escaping by the gates is a win even if I'm the only one, however if I have to use hatch I feel like its a loss.
As killer getting 3 kills is a win, 2 feels like a tie depending on why they died to me. 

Tsulan

@Orion said:

@Tsulan said:

@MisterCremaster said:

@Tsulan said:

Team points while being hooked. That's a tough one.  Maybe points when a gen is completed where that survivor repaired 25%.

To be clear, I don't mean "hanging around on the hook", I mean if you feel like you've had a great game and deserve you're share of the winnings you could not disconnect immediately upon being sacrificed and continue to earn some points. The idea being, you're sacrifice and contributions prior to being sacrificed contributed to the greater good and should thusly be rewarded.

Although, continuing to earn team points while being hooked would keep people from sacrificing themselves when they don't feel like their teammates are coming, and wouldn't make the game feel like such a ######### loss if they're hooked in a bad spot right away.

I have no idea how to balance that from sandbaggers or leaches.

By changing the struggle phase to require skill checks instead of spamming space.
If you hit a great skill check, you get some additional seconds on the hook. If you fail it, you instantly die.

And if they get multiple skill checks in a row, given that good Survivors playing on non-potato PCs can hit great skill checks on a fairly consistent basis, they'll just be unkillable.

They would have to adapt the bonus seconds. Not instantly get 10 seconds or something. More like 1-3 seconds. Not unkillable.

iceman2kx

0-1K it's a lose. 2K it's a draw. 3-4K it's a win.

Terrortot

If you had fun, you won. 

Dont overcomplicate this game is not balanced. Have fun or find another game that is.

Boss

I read the message the Entity gives me when the trial ends, before the scoreboard.
Positive message = i did well.
Negative message = i did poor.
If i go for "Everyone must escape with me!" or "I must kill everyone!" every match, i'd go insane.

fcc2014

I base it off how i felt i played. I don't need 4k or to escape. Did i give the killer fits trying to get me=win Did i wreck the survivors and need to easy up = win.

Dreamnomad

"I think one of the biggest problems with this game is that there is not an defined win condition."

If you pipped then you can consider it a win. The entire purpose of the Emblem system is to define what winning is. So I don't really understand this comment. Of course people are free to have their own definition of what constitutes a "win". But the game clearly has a defined win condition.