For all the key nerfers out there
Keys are fine your problem from all your complaints isn't that keys are letting all survivors escape it's that the hatch spawns when generators aren't all finished so instead of nerfing keys only have hatch spawn after all gens are finished or when the last survivor is alive there I just fixed your problem without nerfing keys and if you still have a issue with it then when all gens are done killer can see hatch as well as doors but not when only one survivor remains. You're welcome
Comments
-
Easier approach: just remove the hatch.
Problem solved.
55 -
You realize that is still nerfing keys right?
23 -
Yh its a decent idea. Some talked about it, but in the end the devs decide.
0 -
No nerfing keys would stop more than one survivor escaping or adding a time for it to open the hatch this way keys remain the same only hatch mechanics are changed
0 -
No it was added for a reason so why scrap it if it's needed
0 -
Well too bad they are getting nerfed soon enough anyway lol.
Good riddance too.
15 -
I'm honestly just tired of seeing all the Keys are OP posts but I also enjoy using a key so don't want it to get completely butchered lol
0 -
any change to the hatch nerfs or buffs keys if you make it spawn later it nerfs keys so yes this idea is still nerfing keys.
3 -
I would argue it is an issue if I close the hatch as the killer in the survivor's face and they key out because they have a full healthstate and collision is lost.
0 -
for example if you make all aura reading have a reduced range your not directly nerfing bbq but you still are.
1 -
That's just unlucky not every match has that scenario
0 -
So by buffing killer the devs are nerfing survivors cool so we're overdue a buff
0 -
Based on your salt you lost a 4k because of a key that is a shame happens quit sulking and get over it
0 -
Keys take SO MUCH skill I tell ya hwhat
4 -
Hatch was introduced to avoid a stalemate where the match doesn´t progress, because the last survivor isn´t doing gens.
Since we have the EGC we don´t need the hatch anymore. Just trigger the EGC once there is only 1 survivor left.
4 -
Both sides constantly get nerfed and buffed people say its always my side getting the nerf but its both you just only play survivor I guess so you see it that way ,but both sides are constantly getting nerfed and buffed like undying got nerfed and now ds is getting nerfed its really not this huge imbalance like everyone seems to think.
0 -
That's not unlucky its bad game design and is frankly silly in what is supposed to be a "horror" game. In that situation also it was predetermined because a offering was used on top of the key to have the hatch spawn next to shack. So no luck involved, bad game design.
1 -
I mean, yes, I have. I am not salty though, I mean it's like the old mori sure you "escaped" but it wasn't by any of your own merits. I'm able to admit that.
But sure, just fire off judgmental insults because of your own insecurities; whatever floats your childish boat.
1 -
Only if you also remove NoEd and EGC.
Hatch is necessary in the game.
0 -
Hatch was introduced to avoid a stalemate where the match doesn´t progress, because the last survivor isn´t doing gens.
Since we have the EGC we don´t need the hatch anymore. Just trigger the EGC once there is only 1 survivor left.
3 -
NOED I can understand but the endgame collapse is necessary if the hatch is closed the survivor could hide in a corner for as long as they want and waste the killers time forever it should be buffed if anything so you can't 99 gates
0 -
Hatch is necessary to provide hope for the last survivor.
This is even a rational embedded in the lore of the game, created by Vigo and playing into the Entity's need to feed off hope.
And mechanically it makes sense. If a survivor team is getting stomped why should they bother to continue trying? The hatch is there as a small chance for them to escape even after getting beaten down hard.
Killers have NoEd for the same reason. Hatch and NoEd are "catch up mechanics" to give the losing side a chance even while losing. They weren't just introduced just to prevent stalemates. Even with EGC you can still have a stalemate if the survivor just doesn't do gens. EGC doesn't trigger if you never reach endgame. Your argument has no merit.
0 -
Killer can kick the gate open and trigger EGC. There is no need to change anything further.
I'm not saying to get rid of EGC. I'm just refuting Tsulan's point that hatch isn't necessary. It is. He is just looking at it strictly from a killer perspective which is why he thinks it's unnecessary.
0 -
Killer can only kick the gates once all gens are completed.
What´s the point of the Hatch then? Isn´t it to give survivors a way out? Once the EGC triggers, the gates are powered. The last survivor can go for the gate. This would also buff Wake Up.
0 -
You just said it should be removed in so what's the deal?
99ing the exit gates should be removed too its just kind of dumb that the EGC is completely useless at pushing out good survivors who don't open the gate.
1 -
Survivors have Adrenaline. Don´t compare a perk with a game mechanic, pls.
4 -
How about you read the thread so you know "what's the deal?"
Here let me help you out.
0 -
Back at you. What's the point of EGC then?
If you can't trigger EGC if the last survivor refuses to complete gens, then what happens?
That's why hatch is necessary. You can't even trigger EGC if the survivor just refuses to play further because there is no point. The hatch gives him a point to keep trying. If you as killer kill 3 survivors and the hatch doesn't spawn, then how are you going to trigger EGC? Right now you trigger it by kicking the hatch closed. Remove hath, and now you have your stalemate.
Good game Tsulan. Glad you're not on the balance team.
Again, you don't see this becuase you are looking it purely from a killer pespective and not considering the survivor side of things.
2 -
Why not? The two fulfill the same role. If anything NoEd should be made baseline so that killers don't need to waste a perk slot for their catchup mechanic.
0 -
yes exactly what I said your being inconsistent you want it to be removed then said it shouldn't be changed so I ask again what's the deal?
0 -
For the last time I did not say I want EGC removed.
0 -
You did though you said if hatch is removed than the EGC should be removed how is that not saying you want it removed?
0 -
time to open is a terribly useless nerf.
0 -
I´m not sure if you actually read what i write.
Ok, for the third time:
EGC starts once there is only 1 survivor left. Automatically. No need for interaction with the gate or hatch or anything. Therefore no need for the hatch.
1 -
I am going to spell it out for you.
- Tsulan says, "Remove hatch."
- I disagree, I say "Hatch is necessary."
- Me: "If you want to remove hatch you should also remove EGC."
- (that is, "remove EGC" is only a condition for me if Hatch is removed.)
- Just because I say that as a conditional to Tsulan's post, doesn't mean it's what I want. Because I do not want Tsulan's post. I do not want to remove hatch. I even said it outright. "Hatch is necessary."
- I don't want to "remove hatch"
- Ergo, I don't want, "If you want to remove hatch you should also remove EGC."
- Therefore, I don't want to remove EGC.
0 -
My bad, thanks for clarifying htat.
But I still disagree with you.
That's a very killer-sided view of things. Especially since on many map spawns the exit gates spawn right next to each other. That is basically a no-win situation. It is impossible to escape. Again, hatch is necessary to give Survivors home, even a slim one. If you remove hatch you should fix the exit gate spawns. On some maps exit gates spawn guaranteed within 10 second walking distance of killer. It would be impossible to make a play for them.
And this still doesn't take into consideration how the last 2 survivors can just choose to hide forever -- which is a very real problem. Hatch needs to exist to give survivors a reason to keep doing gens.
There are many mechanical problems with balance that make the hatch necessary.
0 -
Honestly I never believed you said that in the first place I just wanted to see how far this would go.
2 -
This is very survivor sided thinking from you. Imagine, the killer performs bad. All 4 survivors are about to escape and the gate closes behind the third one and has to be reopened by the last survivor. Because well... the killer needs a chance to catch at least one. Even when he performed bad. Does this sound fair? Of course not. Same goes for the whole hatch thing we have.
3 -
All though I agree that noed isn't one of the best perks out there, if you get hit by it than that is on you and your team.
There are 4 survivors and 5 totems, so not that hard to cleanse them.
It's not that they are incredibly hard to find too, especially if you play the game a while you know about most of the places of the totems.
Personally I don't think the hatch is necessary in this game tbh.
I always play solo and personally I don't care about escaping, if I had some nice chases and I pip or at least black pip then I am happy.
I saw someone in a discord community say something interesting about the hatch.
Make it where the hatch only opens (or only spawns) if you at least black pipped.
Otherwise 1 survivor can just wait till the rest of the team is gone and barely did anything in the match and still escape undeserved.
The idea of Tulsan is also not bad.
1 survivor left, triggers egc.
An idea is to maybe shorten the time to open the gates when there is 1 survivor left.
Not much but just a little bit, especially since most of the time the gates spawn close to each other
1 -
Escaping should be the point of the game for survivors. Not mucking around in the fog gallivanting.
It's because BHVR forgot this basic truth that the game has a messed up matchmaking an emblem system.
Hatch is necessary from that point of view. And is a good goal to aim for in any survivor game. Removing the hatch is foolish IMO. Having the EGC trigger immediately when one survivor is left doesn't resolve the situation where 2 survivors just hide when they are losing.
0 -
they better make a wise decision considering the games coming out together this year...
0 -
Why you troll me bro.
1 -
What game are coming out?
0 -
I'm sorry I won't do that anymore
1 -
Except then there is still a problem: Gates spawn too close on a lot of maps. A survivor MUST always have a chance of escape through skill. Gates spawning too close or in a way where a killer stand on 1 spot to camp both make hatches necessary. At least then the killer is forced to close the hatch first before camping the gates.
Sure, there still are some matches where the hatch basically spawns inbetween the gates, or worse yet, on the position where you can camp both gates at once. But then there is at least a chance that the survivor makes it to the hatch first.
The hatch is here to stay. Otherwise the basement needs to be removed aswell(because there no longer is a need for one, right? The basement was there to ensure there were hooks on the map, but since hooks respawn within 60 seconds, there is no longer a use for it)
1 -
Well, keys are going to be changed anyway, so it doesn't really matter at this point. And honestly, it was about time.
0 -
A bit nitpicky but keys are linked to the hatch so any changes to the hatch would indirectly buff/nerf keys.
That said this is the easiest and tbh best solution.
If the hatch only spawns when all generators are done or when a single survivor is left there would be zero problems with keys.
And they still remain usefull cause it's the only plausible way out when the exit gates spawn close together.
Best of all, just a number change
1 -
i don't have any problem with keys.. if i see a key on a survivor he is just top of my killing list :D if they can escape then well done
0 -
This would make keys all but useless IMO.
0 -
Yes! Finally someone understands!
0
![[Deleted User]](https://forums.bhvr.com/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
