So Clown is... still Sucks?
Or it's just me and i can't do anything with him and his bottles. How are you doing with him?
Comments
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Firstly Antidotes are not used for mobility
When in chase you can use both bottles to catch survivors in insane speeds leaving them little counterplay.
Throw antidotes slightly ahead of you when catching up to someone. When at a loop throw it at the survivor then loop normally until you get the boost then use your tonic for an easy hit or pallet drop depending on safety.
Best addons are cigar box, bleach and ether
Good luck!
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He's better than he used to be, but he's still bad, yeah.
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Instead of slowing the survivor down, you speed up. Same difference he's basically the same tier.
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We got a master of strategy here
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Still bad. I wouldn't even move him up a tier from where he was at before, that's how small the change was.
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Before you slow the survivor down so you catch up faster. Now you speed yourself up so you catch up faster. It's the same power. None of his weaknesses have been addressed. It's like a clone character in Smash Bros, slightly different but basically the same ya know?
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I’d bump him up honestly his chase is very strong now
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You can use both you know?
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and what does it do? it makes him catch up faster.
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Yes much faster to a point where survivors can’t really do much
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imo hes always been decent
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The same old tactics still work against Clown. Pre-drop pallets, don't try to loop him, keep as much distance as possible. In order to get the most out of the new bottle, Clown is expected to use bottles more often, which depletes his ammo faster. As such, a lot of people just treat his buff as just improved reload speed, which IS nice. While Clown CAN use the bottle to make a few hits he might not have been able to before, it's a marginal improvement at best and still requires that he use more bottles per chase. His resource management can backfire if its not handled well.
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Solid c tier before rework definitely better than Myers and pig anyway
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Gained a highly situational speed up and faster reload. Lost removing all Exhaustion perks from the game. Debatable.
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lol? all the worst spots still hurt clown and take him a while to catch up. Drop pallets early and rush gens and clown is still easy beat. please dont make him out to be OP
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He's better than before as his yellow bottles now allow him to catch survivors on longer loops that were otherwise difficult for clown to catch survivors at. The reduced reload time also helps.
But overall not much improved.
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Exhaustion bottles needed to be removed.
When he can use his speed bottles on most loops calling them situational is a lie
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That's... The point. Tonic makes hindered effect : -15% speed. Antidote makes haste : +10% speed.
If you place both gaz well, only you are getting the antidote and the survivor is getting the tonic.
The survivor is at 85% speed, and you're at 125% speed, making a speed difference of freakin' 40%. That's a mad bloodlust 9999.
Plus, he got also buffed his reloading speed, and that is a small, but important buff. That's why now he's a pretty solid anti-loop killer in good hands.
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His counterplay is the same but many times you can get survivors before they can reach the pallet in question
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This is one of those "on paper" things isn't it. Clown could get hits easy before, he just suffered like a lot of killers with poor map pressure, poor mobility on larger maps, can't easily juggle survivors. This update fixes very little of his flaws. 10%+ speed does not make him a good killer.
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Clown is average if a red rank plays him. Otherwise he's subpar because a good understanding of the yellow bottles is the only thing that keeps him out of the dumpster and only the best players even know how to use them effectively
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Poor mobility like every 115% speed killer. His power lies in his anti loop potential. I actually saw some big brain plays from clown while playing survivor, and on YT. If you really know how to do and what to do with both bottles on each loop, you will get some super fast hooks, and mobility is not a problem. The time you gained by ending your chases quickly will bring you pressure. Plus, in the late game, the map technically isn't big, you're moving on your 3 gen.
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Agreed Now i'd say he in the B tier between High and middle
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He was buffed. His largest counter was the fact that his gas doesn't affect survivor vaults, so throwing pallets early and camping the pallet was sort of an effective counter against him.
But since the antidote speeds the clown up, he can make some safe loops pretty unsafe when paired with his gas at the same time. He's very hard to play effectively, but he does reward you for learning him. It's just that the reward you get for Clown maybe isn't as high as some other chasing killers is all.
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I disagree. We need more killers with Exhaustion addons, not less. Exhaustion perks in their current state are essentially a free 3rd health state every 40 seconds...that is insane. Stack that with zero negative, zero cost, zero requirement, very little skill needed for them. There is literally no reason you wouldn't run an Exhaustion perk right now unless you simply did not care about winning and wanted to meme...that is bad design.
Most loops you would get the same if not more benefit just using a second slow down bottle. Not to mention extra risk for that gamble since the survivor could also get it.
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I’m doing insanely good with him. The antidote is an amazing addition to his kit.
It’s literally almost impossible for survivors to avoid being hit when at the same time they’re intoxicated while Clown is Invigorated.
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The new bottle's delayed effect makes it overly finnicky. Imho you hurt yourself by wasting a bottle on the speed boost and are better of just using the basic ones, so all in all nothing has changed if you ask me. It was a band aid fix where a rework was necessary to bring him really up to snuff.
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Ok you convince me Clown is top tier. I shall look forward to seeing players dominate with him in the next tournaments.
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Incredibly fast.
Think about it: Clown is moving much faster while a survivor is moving much slower.
Surely you don’t require any further explanation on how powerful that is in a chase?
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Exhaustion perks and the change to Solvent Jug have been a non issue for me since the introduction of The Antidote.
If i’m Invigorated, and they’re Intoxicated, their exhaustion perk really doesn’t help them avoid being hit, even the “mighty” Dead Hard.
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I'm not saying he's top tier because he lacks some tools that would make him top tier, but he's a great anti loop killer, that's all, and he does nothing else :p
I mean, top tier killers are killers with great anti-loop potential, and great mobility, and/or basekit tools. Like Spirit and Nurse are god tier anti-loop killers, plus mobility thanks to their power, making them S tier killers.
And you have Pyramid Head, that is almost as good as Spirit or Nurse in chases (as a PH and Nurse Main, I'm convinced he's as strong as them imo), and his power offers survivors meta perk denying tools (Anti DS, etc, everyone knows PH), but he has basic mobility, so he's A Tier killer.
And here we are with the Clown, that is just, and only ultra good on chased if mastered. Making him a B tier imo.
Don't know if you know what I mean, I'm not here to impose my point of view, just putting what I think are solid arguments, that are a reality in solid games.
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That's an idealistic scenario that isn't playing out like that in most cases.
It also doesn't negate my point about Exhaustion perks in general.
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I think exhaustion perks are fine, it adds gameplay, I never found myself saying "damn, that exhaustion perk is broken, it should be deleted or hard nerfed", when I play survivor, I'm happy to have that, and as a killer, well, that's the game, and it makes more chase interactions and twists and turns, like "okay he has Balance, I'll have to chase him when he can't use it", "he has SB, I have to zone out or not early lunge", "he has DH, I have to be careful and not giving him a situation when he can gain distance with it", it makes the game less brain dead for killers, and more interesting and diversified for survivors. :)
(But Exhaustion perks balance is not the topic here)
Why not anti exhaustion perks add-ons, but not lasting 90 seconds... It should be 15 seconds for green add-on, and 20 seconds for purple add-on.
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You can set it up anytime a survivor is camping at a loop. It’s complicated if there are a series of interconnected tiles but at any singular tile it’s pretty easy to score hits by combining the bottles, especially if you are running chase perks as well.
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The 3 second reload speed is the best thing to come from it.
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By all technicalities Clown still got a buff from the reload time reducation alone however the rework as whole didn't change anything. Clown is still Clown and all of his assocated weaknesses like dropping pallets early, spreading out on gens, not being greedy around loops and good ol' fashion holding W still dumpster him pretty hard. The rework only really doubled down on Clown's chase potential and improved it...kinda. You can do big brain plays with your antidotes and tonics around loops but at the end of the day all that brainpower only nets you an extra hit in a few extra loops. I like Clown and he was one of my earlier killers but the rework doesn't make him any more rewarding to play, you're mostly going to be doing the same things as clown and suffering from the same issues. Which is a shame but I guess BHVR would rather not have another Freddy on their hands because god forbid you try to address a killer's flaw so the only other option for the rework was to hyper-specialize Clown's power and hyper-specialize it is.
I'm not trying to poopoo on the Clown, he's still okay-ish strength wise but the rework really doesn't change all that much about him and the antidote is really more 'optional' than anything else. There's a lot of killers with optional stuff like PH and his cages, you don't need to cage anyone in the whole game if you don't want to but the incentive of moving them away into a dead part of the map and bypassing DS is big enough of an incentive to make you want to cage them but with the Clown there's just no real incentive to use the antidote bottle. You can still mostly get the same results only using the regular tonics really.
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The thing with clown is that he doesn't nececarelly suck but people suck with him.
He kinda reminds me of blight where you really need to look at every single loop and how to best get a hit with it.
I would place him up there with other strong chase no mobility killers. He can be very hard to deal with. One misplaced bottle of him is enough to take away a lot of his pressure though.
As far as addons go the new aura reading addons are way stronger then exhaustion addons. With cigar box you can leave all but the safest pallets up and 100% mind game them everytime.
That's something I'm finding out slowly. Don't break as many pallets especially if they throw early. Chase straight after them. Force them to stay at the loop.
So yeah in short still very susceptible to split up and do gens but things can quickly spiral out of control if you don't respect a good one
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OK but you cannot just throw them in front of you a little bit because it takes time to activate. Making it so the surv runs the loops and actually gets the speed boost first. I dont understand your reasoning here.
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Agree. I'm surprised nobody talks about this.
IMO exhaustion should have some sort of debuff. Maybe when you're exhausted your repair speed decreases 20 % and runs 5% slower.
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Yep this is right. Clown doesn't suck, but every loop in the game has a bottle placement that covers most of the loops. L and T walls most clowns throw bottles improperly. Jungle gym's have certain arcs where bottles cover. Loops become extremely unsafe if these bottles are placed correctly.
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They've become so accustomed to things that are way too strong that it seems normal to them.
Less people agree with it because you only really see how busted it can be with good players and most players on average are pretty bad. It's a similar situation with people being able to see how unbalanced the game is.
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Pallet down and looping it?
Yellow bottles
Windows?
Purpule for slow volt
Strong loop without pallet? (cow loop or jungle gym)
A combo of all 2
If you use in right way you hit the surv easy
Trhow yellow in your position and Purple near window
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Killers even moreso. So accustomed to OP killers like Spirit, Freddy, or Huntress that these seem normal. Even excessive perks like Ruin and Undying seem normal to killers. Or a perk like BBQ.
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He's absolute garbage. Not even this rework could save him.
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Ya clown is still pretty bad
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what? Clown is in a really good spot now he is a lot better but they didn't buff him so much that he is top tier but he is a very solid killer now.
His antidote bottles aren't as good as some people think but they definitely aren't useless they can make shack or some long loops completely useless. Then you add on his increased load speed and consequently more room for addons he is a very middle of the ground killer much better than something like trapper, wraith, ghostface, or even legion.
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Good clown’s will never let the survivors get the speed boost and using one tonic is enough slow for the hit assuming your bottle placement is good
Exhaustion addons are not the fix to exhaustion we need. There are other ways to counter it too with blood echo and mindbreaker
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You throw it ahead of you so the survivor doesn’t get it and you do
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If they gave each bottle type its own capacity, the buff would be much more noticeable. Cool, you have 2 different bottles to throw now. But still only 4 ammo.. Yeah reloading is faster, but now you'll be using more bottles trying to combine their effects.
I think I see why people have just been sticking with the OG gas for the most part.
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The problem with that is that most the anti-exhaustion perks suck such as the ones you mentioned.
Exhaustion perks are so good that they are literally ran x4 every single game. So it is exactly the best time to be running those anti-exhaustion perks and they are still not ran. There's a reason for this.
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