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What do you guys think about the tru3 and otz debate?
I enjoyed the debate and thought it was nice to see two streamers logically and politely disscuse their disagreements. I think it would be cool to see more of this kind of thing from more streamers.
Below is a link for Pt1 of their debate of hooks vs kills.
Comments
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I enjoy those types of conversations. The devs would learn a lot from watching the discussion and maybe involving them with the games development.
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More debates like this would be good for the health of the game
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Good. But sadly these devs won’t watch them.
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I agree with True, when his argument is reduced to his premises. When his arguments are generalized, Otz’s POV makes more sense.
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It's not really a debate so much as brainstorming for a massive gameplay overhaul. I enjoyed it.
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I liked seeing two content creators with clashing personalities politely discuss rather than argue. If it was someone like Ochido, then it would have been a different story.
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That Tru3 doesn't enjoy life and Otz does. LOL he literally has to make compilation videos to show people that he's capable of smiling. Otz is fun and serious when he needs to be.
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I really enjoyed the fact that they could get together and talk peacefully about the game, but this whole thing has shown the worst of both communities.
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Yeah, luckily the majority of the community is respectful. I've seen only a few on both sides respond aggresively and rudely about the opposing views.
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I don't think he hates living, tru3 is just very serious and analytical. When he plays builds for fun such as jump scare myers you can see he has a lot of joyful fun especially.
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I liked that they were espectful, but I think Tru3's attitude about incentivizing hooks is so narrow-minded and short-sighted.
Even if you do incentivize hooks, there's no reason for a killer to not push harder on the weak link, especially when the rest of the team is good. And even if you try for hooks, it's still better to get people out of the game quickly and put yourself in a strong position.
And I for one am getting sick of this prattling on about "skillful" gameplay and crutch perks. Mechanics exist in the game, people are going to use them, learn to play around them. If you find trying to counter such play boring, then this is the wrong game for you and you need to realize that and move on.
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I see what you are saying, but i think tru3 was saying he wants hooks to reward the killer. Therefore reward a killer for playing more fair and not tunneling.
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It’s just not possible with current gen speeds if the survivors are any good at looping whatsoever. Only a handful of killers can go for 12 hooks against a good team.
Without corrupt intervention you are looking at 3 gens done in 2-3 minutes. A 40-50 second chase can easily be 3 gens done; and it’s honestly not that hard to do against a ton of killers on many of the maps.
Load into “the game” as an M1 killer and expect to 12 hook? Just lmao. Survivors would not even have to loop, they could just stand at the pallets and still win.
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I enjoyed the discussion. Would like to see more content like that.
I like both streamers, but watch Tru3 more because I can watch him with my kids. He doesn't swear as much as Otz! haha
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It didn't seem like they were debating anywhere in the same ballpark for most of the discussion until the end and otz was kind of interrogating tru3 lol
But both still made good points. It seems like tru3's point was more about wanting devs to try out new ways to incentivize going for chases and rewarding more survivor interaction, which would make the game more fun. This would require the devs to try out new changes and maybe touch on gen speed or give survivors more objectives to do, and I'm for that.
There's a lot of talk about hooks vs kills, but the current state of the game already wants you to do both imo, except if you try to consciously interact with all 4 survivors in a match instead of taking people out of the game or away from objectives early, you'll just be "gen rushed" most of the time and end up with 4 survivors escaping. So hopefully the discussion gets devs to look into making the game more engaging, because camping/tunneling to lessen the load as killer to try and get a win definitely isn't the most fun way to play for either side.
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Here's the thing - the devs can incentivize multiple hooks till the cows come home - but it doesn't change the most core aspect of this game.
REMOVING SOMEBODY FROM THE GAME REMOVES HANDS FROM GENERATORS PERMANENTLY
Until that core feature of the game is changed, it will always be best to tunnel and get hands off generators quickly in order to make the game easier.
Especially when you consider my next point....
GENERATORS ARE SUPER EASY TO DO BY EVEN THE LEAST SKILLED PLAYERS.
Because the survivor objective is pathetically easy even for the worst loopers, a smart killer is going to have every reason to pressure that weak link and get them out of the game quickly to make their lives easier later down the line. Because the simple fact is, dead survivors can't do generators.
To do otherwise makes the more intelligent among killer's feel like they have to play like idiots. We have to "Dumb down" our gameplay for the sake of some arbitrary rule about "Fair play" that the core of the game does not support.
Here's the truth of the matter that tru3 and others need to just accept - it's on the survivors to stop the killer from tunneling by protecting their teammates better. If they can't handle that - they're in the wrong game and need to move on. Because the only way to fix the issue is the change the game with infinite respawns which isn't happening.
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Yeah, lol, I know. I just enjoy watching someone who is enjoying the game instead of just making it an overly competitive environment. He's clearly very knowledgeable of the game though.
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Agreed
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It was good to see, a positive conversation on the subject.
I believe both are right in a way. 3 Kills is a win in my book, with that said. I have had many matches where either I get 3-4k quickly, or barely squeak out 3k. It should be looked at more of like a sports score... Is 1-0 a win? Yes, it was close, but a win. Is 9-3 a win? Yes, not even close.
The BP system is there for a reason, I can get a 4k as basement Trapper with 15k BP, 0k as Wraith with 21k BP, or I can get a 4k as Doctor with 32k BP. The system has its flaws, but is pretty decent as far as defining how well you were in each category.
idk just spit balling here.
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That's why you balance around hooks and not kills. That includes a fix to gen speeds. It's like everyone doesn't listen to tru3, hooks=fix to gen speeds so that it's possible.
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I've always seen Otz as the type of guy who really understands Dead By Daylight and knows what would make it better for everyone, not just for himself. I would be absolutely joyed if BHVR decided to invite Otz as part of the game development.
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