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BHVR's Balance Team
Comments
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Why isn't it? SWF is promoted on every corner. There is even a official discord channel to find other players. So why not balance around that instead of spoon feeding survivors information in the hope to bring solos to the same information level as SWF teams?
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He slides. That's what's wrong with him. And his perspective is way too low to the ground. Thankfully he's having both those things fixed in the next chapter.
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Agreed. Nurse is broken af and would never be added today. I hope they never add a killer as game breaking as her into this game again. And if that means the devs playing it safe when considering overly strong new killer powers, so be it.
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With broken af, do you mean weak?
Because i havent seen a decent nurse in ages.
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You have a blight profile pic but u failed to mention that blight is more than capable of decimating any team. I'm upset :(
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So, they actually answered the same question about perks in one of their streams, so I guess it could fit here as well:
If they make good perks and killers, the community will reply and say that this game is pay to win
But
If they make weak perks and killers, the community will complain and say that the balancing team doesn't play their game because there hasn't been a shift in the meta for a while.
So, basically, it's a lose-lose situation. Pick your poison
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I believe a Killers strength is the ability to adapt while a match happens, both sides are trying to outplay each other, so a killer than can outplay is strong cause he has versatility and doesn't need to compensate for manny things.
All Killers and Survivors are weak without add-ons/item's and perks. That's a main issue to me, the game relies on these things to make the game interesting beyond the basic concept of chases because these things give the killers and survivors versatility, more so in survivor case cause perks is all they have so they don't need to worry about actually getting perks that matter for a specific reason, they just get whatever perks and be done with it but for Killers it's more complex to the point where you spend more time figuring what works and doesn't than you spend actuall having fun.
How manny add-ons are absolutly useless or absolutly mandatory for killers? How manny perks can you use with a killer? Sure you can play Legion without Thana but then you're not making good use of your power and you're having to compensate this with another 1 or 2 perks. Sure you can play Ghostface without recovery add-ons but then you're basicly playing without a power and it will be much harder but even if you were using recovery add-ons you're still a tthe mercy of survivors spotting you. You could play Wraith without Windstorm but then...
What im trying to get at is that for the killer side the game relies too heavily on perks and add-ons to compensate for the base kit. Sure some add-ons are really nice and give the killer versatility but if you're using that then that means you need it to compensate something. I think BHVR needs to reavaluate killers base kit and reduce the games relliance on perks and add-ons, there's too manny for all of them to be good and then theres even add-on tiers, wich makes half the tiers pointless.
Taking The Trickster into consideration, alot of people think bouncing knifes should be base kit, that's a change that would be welcome since it gives the killer something more than just a projectile, it gives him more personality, and honestly i think they did pretty good with that aspect with The Trickster, he looks very different from other killers, they really added alot of charisma and personality to him but then his power suffers cause it can't be too far away from the norm.
ANOTHER SOLUTION to help killers whitout straight up buffing is changing MAP DESIGN.
I just think LESS would be way MORE in DbD. LESS reliance on crutches MORE base kit value, LESS things to work on MORE balance, LESS RNG and MORE FUN. Do you want LESS camping? Give the Killers MORE tools and this doesn't mean just straight up buff killers, this means consider the core of the game and how you design it and rethink what could be made to make the game more engaging and fair and fun. If it's fun for the Killer than that means they can let survivors have fun too.
Hooks vs Kills debate within the active playing community was really nice and alot of good points were made. Going for max hooks is more enjoyable cause there's alot more engagement and much more play and people can have more fun however because of how the game is at the moment that isn't always possible and there's plenty of reasons why that isn't possible, to me the main reason why that isn't possible is because of the MAP DESIGN, The MAPS are too big for most killers to travel wich means they have to compensate with gen regression perks, the maps offer way too manny loops wich means 2 things, first killers might need to compensate for chase potential and second this means you may not catch all survivors cause you can't win the chase and thus can't go for more hooks wich then can mean more slugging, more camping and more tunneling since it becomes necessary to get someone out of the game quick to have a chance at winning. Those things will always exist but even for killer it's not fun, you don't want to feel like you have to stay there and not engage in the rest of the game...
Smaller maps with smaller loops would mean LESS camping, tunneling, slugging, LESS relliance on crutch perks to slow the game down or increase the chase potential BUT would mean MORE engagement, more chases, more build variety, MORE FUN. Seriously BHVR needs to stop the band aid fixing style, Undying was a fix to how quickly Hexes can be shot down but made Undying too powerful so they had to nerf it, they had to band aid the band aid, that just proves it was a bad idea to start with and besides they had already done that band aid with Thrill of the Hunt...This band aid fxing might have worked for how the game was back in 2016 and 2017 but it hasn't worked since then.
How do smaller maps work for Survivor though? Would they then need to compensate like Killers do now? I honestly don't think so, if the maps were trully changed then the killer can chase someone else all the time, meaning there's more rescues happening, another way to help this behaviour would be to reward players more for helping each other, thus there's not only the opportunity to do so but also a good reward, thus SOLO QUEUE gets benefitted cause it's less likely for you to be abandoned. So being hooked isn't so bad but how about the chases themselves? What means would survivors have if maps are smaller and chases won't go as long, won't exhaustion perks be need more? And the answer is not really, all the changes will come down to reduced map size and reduced number of loops not actual strength of the loops, Killers who can't run TL's will still suffer in that specifiq loop but in general they can afford to spend more time there cause they aren't as pressured. You wanna link lopps? you can do that without dead harding to a window or pallet. You are out positioned but Sprint Burst is available? Nice you can get to a loop but since the map is smaller the Killer might engage in the chase afterall giving both survivor and killer interactivity and more points, so hurray for BP economy.
Won't killers just force a 3 gen strat then? They can try it, it's a simple fair game strategy, but it's still up to the survivors if that works or not, i'd say survivors 3 gen themselves more than the actual killer forces it, sure the killer will try to identify and play with it in mind but it's still not just their actions that matter. Is it strong? Yes but if killers can afford to play the maps freely then there isn't much of a reason to do that.
Looking at this i can see less Forever Freddy and alot more Myers, Myers getting out of tier1 quickly cause he doesn't need to travel 500 miles would be such a game changer for him and that's POGGERS. You could see more Trapper cause there's a better opportunity for making a Trap web and because he doesn't need to walk 500 miles to get his traps and then another 500 miles to put his game plan in motion thus meaning he won't be so massively dependant on bags or trap setting speed. Plague won't be so dependant on where survivors cleanse, Clown is also much more efficient. Al lthis does is make the weaker killers not suffer as much, the strong kilelrs are strong regardless but the main thing is more killers are LESS FRUSTATING and risky to play meaning MORE CONFIDENT killers and they'll have MORE FUN. BTW you could even remove yet another band aid fix called BLOODLUST.
I honestly think chaning map design philosophy would do so much good for the game. sorry for the long read if anyone does read it but i just wanted to explain the best i could and why i think it works and the benefits not jsut for the game but for the Devs themselves.
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Because unfortunately he's not. I enjoy and like Blight a lot. He's very fun and pretty decent.
Against equally good survivors though he's too easy to counter. Out of most the A tier he's probably the easiest killer to face when I'm on survivor.
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i never said it shouldnt be, i'm completely with you on that. the game SHOULD be balanced around SWF. they should buff up solo q to better match the strength of swf and then buff killers and change some other things in the game accordingly.
but they haven't and i'm not sure why.
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Here's the thing: The Devs probably released Trickster in the PTB the way they did to guage how they need to buff him. When you think about it, Trickster could be buffed in so many different ways (like for example movement speed, knife hit counts to injure, knife accuracy, recoil, Main Event activation, etc). To jump to the conclusion that this is a money scheme or they don't care about their newest Killers being viable is too extreme. By no means is the Trickster in his final version in PTB. Plus, they probably didn't release a more updated version of him for the PTB similar to Blight. He's probably already stronger behind closed doors. Regardless, I'm really excited for the new chapter!
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I disagree the nurse should have never happened but I agree that killers like her should be a rarity.
I've gotten down to rank 6 with Pig but using nurse I can't get a kill. Her controls just don't work well for me. I've played against a rank 1 Nurse as a survivor and its like fighting a homing missile with your hands. Feels like once they've set their eyes in you you're doomed but its a huge learning curve to get to that skill level especially when playing against survivors that don't give you much room for mistakes.
All of this is to say she's a strong killer when you take the time to learn her but she has a prohibitive learning curve so killers like her should be a rarity. They shouldn't happen often because its difficult for players to get into a character that has such a high learning curve and if the game was full of killers like that and players who had no choice but to learn them it would be extremely difficult for survivors. They should happen though for people who do want to put in that kind of effort to learn a killer. Peoples efforts should be rewarded.
Trapper is the oddity to me. His entire power is setting traps and hitting people who get caught in them. Something you would typically do before the survivors arrive, but you can't do that with the way the game is set up. So people can see him set up his traps and disarm them making him a really slow M1 killer who can't even carry a lot of his traps without an attachment. Even the pig gets 4 reverse bear traps to start.
I do have an issue with how the jigsaw boxes work though. Why would the Pig make it so one box removed all the traps. Wouldn't it make more sense for each jigsaw box to work with only one reverse bear trap so everyone has to find their respective box. That's just a personal issue though.
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Wdym. He's easily the third strongest killer even in comp again the highest level swfs. Arguably second if you ask me. Only thing spirit does better than him is end chases against the most insane survivors slightly faster.
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Yes, many survs are bad but many killers are bad too at red ranks. But all killer think they’re semigods and they deserve 4k always
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Yes there are lots of bad killers as well but no that is not what they think.
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Not even remotely. You are way over estimating how strong Blight is. His counter play is quite easy. The only thing he's got going for him is high map
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A fee years ago they did have killers release way too strong (Freddy and Legion) and that went very poorly. I believe their reasoning now is that having a weak killer is easier to adjust while too strong of one its easier to nerf into the ground accidentally (like what happened happened freddy originally).
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OG Freddy and Legion was anything but strong.
Just obnoxious to play against
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The last strong killer they added was spirit imo oni blight ph are decent.
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Youre right,but the best thing to do to have a perfect balance is to make the killers a little bit stronger so it doesn’t affect the weak survivors. A 3-4 % speed buff or 10-15% slower gens or a 5th perk would be a good thing. Right now it is far from balanced and this would make killers shut up about unfairness.
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It only took almost 7 months to fix his pov
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Killers in the game are strong I don't understand how you can think otherwise you have alot of perks to stop survivors from progressing the game from stoping gens to blocking an exit gait you can close the Hatch you have bloodlust for extra speed as if your not already fast enough you can camp you you can see survivors on the ground you can see scratch marks you can clip through objects when hitting you can hit survivors when sliding over pellets you can hit survivors when fast vaulting windows you still have an unfair amount of hitbox problems that will never get fixed so stop complaining you have alot of help don't you killers have auto aim anyways the game will never be fair I wish the hitbox worked the way it use to before they ######### it up but that's never going to happen
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I think they jump back and forth between skill and fun. Blight was the perfect killer in terms of skill and fun (hence why he's widely loved in this community), However the Twins were supposed to fill this next section towards skill. However things didn't go as planned in that chapter. So next in this pattern Trickster was made for fun instead of skill (hence the 60 knives and throwing them all at a rapid pace) unlike huntress and Deathslinger where you have to be skilled in making shots/hits count with your power and being conservative of it in the meantime.
Long story short:
Devs Make a skill based killer last chapter went bad, now they're going focus on this one being a fun killer to play. We can only assume that MAYBE the next killer will skill based and continue the pattern of
skill -> fun -> skill -> fun -> and that perfect killer that does both
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I wouldn't want any of those changes, they're terrible.
3-4% speed buff is nuts. That's an extreme bandaid fix and would cause a slew of other problems that I don't think you realize. Not a healthy change at all.
Gens do go too fast but just adding duration is not the solution. That is boring for survivors. We add time to gens by adding a secondary objective that is fun and engaging. Holding m1 for longer is neither of those.
5th perk slot is another bandaid fix. An extra perk slot doesn't fix the problems.
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What we need is better map design, mandatory secondary objectives for survivors, and to fix a lot of unhealthy second chance perks in the game.
There are also quite a few substantially under performing killers.
Balance can be tweaked for high ranks without hurting low ranks.
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Actually Freddy wasn't too strong on release, bad survivors just complained and they caved.
Original Legion actually wasn't strong, he just had unhealthy game play. IE he could guarentee you would go down with no counter play (unhealthy game play), but it took so long that it was unviable and lost you the game (weak).
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That's what we need but the best we get is more god pallets, totems and archive challenges, and more second chance perks added to try and dilute the existing second chance perks.
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ghostface
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"Better", not "strong"
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Strong should be an insta-down and insta-mori then I would consider it valanced
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Oh yeah, they listen to feedback alright
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Behavior has a Balance Team? That's like saying they have a Q.A. Team. 🤣
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I don't think the killers are very balanced across the board. At this point I just want there to be FUN killers. Trickster looks fun. For example I don't enjoy playing with or against Cannibal. Having an insta down available basically all game (that got buffed... WHY) is just cheap and no fun. Sure it makes him "strong" but it's kind of like a crutch. You can choose to play him and use the chainsaw sparingly, but its not fun... or just change the mechanic. Hillbilly takes more skill to get a hit on someone with that chainsaw at least. I think the threat of an insta down when you have to earn it with stalking, devour, etc. is a fun mechanic for both sides. It puts in that fear... "Oh no! Exposed!" Just my two cents of someone who plays both sides.
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Much easier said than done. You'd think it's as easy as just changing a few numbers, unfortunately it's not, it's harder than that.
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it happened to Blight
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"Better", not "Strong".
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Blight's at least a high B tier killer what
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They could of made it way simpler by makeing it a client sided effect to survivors nothing changes but to the killer they see the effects the is used in many games even dbd example demo surivor sees hands down low killer sees big claws
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I mean. i wouldn't mind a new killer that could Rival Nurse. it'd be a actual killer devs put time into anywho,
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B tier is weak. I'd put Blight in A tier myself, but A tier isn't "strong". A tier is reliant on survivor mistakes to win which not relying on survivor mistakes is my definition of strong in DBD.
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I think you need to be way more specific about what exactly in map design needs to change as that term is far too ambiguous and what second chance perks need changes and in what specific way would you change them?
As far as objectives are concerned, the survivors did not accept an OPTIONAL secondary objective in Undying+Ruin, they certainly will not accept a mandatory objective.
I do agree with thread that Trickster is not in good spot and will probably be the same after coming out of the PTB with no potential future. Its DBD so there is no surprise there.
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A Killer like that will never be implemented again. Nurse itself should have never come into the game in her current state in the first place.
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You do realize that If they removed Nurse. this game would actually hurt majorly and would die out because there is no top killer that can dominate a good swf. Nurse Deserves to stay, She's already fun to verse than spirit... the main issue is also that This game is 100% purely survivor sided,
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Nurse is one of the few busted things left in this game. She is on one Level with true Infinites, Double Pallets, No-Hook Moris, Insta-Heals... The only thing that makes her "balanced" is the fact that she is hard to learn and not many players want to do that (because there are more than enough alternatives which can get the Job done, unlike a few years ago).
IMO she should be reworked, increased Movement Speed and drastically nerfed Power. But I also know that this will never happen, so chill. Nurse will stay the same as long as the majority of players dont bother to learn her.
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Not busted but ight my guy, There's still map spawns that can spawn double pallets, still got the syringe in the game, Bnp and alot of survivor perks / meta perks that haven't been touched in a Really long time compared to killer,
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Double Pallets = mean that there is the minimum of Pallets on the Map and there are not many Maze Tiles with Pallets (aka more T/L-Walls than Jungle Gyms). A Double Pallet is good for the Killer.
Syringe = nerfed quite badly, but I agree, one of the Survivor things which is not useless
BNP = only the strongest Toolbox Add-On because the rest got nerfed into Oblivion (rightfully though)
Meta Perks = You mean those Meta Perks which were not released for Survivors for years already? Last Meta-Perk was either DS or DH, dont know which came out earlier.
Oof.
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If you balance around the top, the game becomes more competitive and unenjoyable to the masses. You lose a large chunk of the playerbase as the game pushes itself away from fairly casual to competitive. I'm not saying it will flat out kill it immediately, but it will likely put it on the track to that. I've seen it in Call Of Duty multiplayer and it isn't pretty. It was a casual game for most, but then SBMM was implemented to make it more competitive and it's slowly starting to kill the multiplayer scene. Not everything needs to be perfectly balanced, there are games that have been successful as casual MP that have glaring balance issues, and I think DBD is a great example of that.
The game is predicated on luck, and RNG. In competitive games, that is almost nonexistent. To have a competitive game, you would need to purge everything and start from the ground up, which at this point seems very unlikely due to how many variables are already currently in the game. I personally don't think it's realistic to ever expect that this game can be competitive, that's just my opinion of course but I firmly doubt they would risk their current success right now and put so many resources into almost entirely reworking every facet of the game.
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Bhvr stated there would be no pallets spawning within 16 meters of eachother. which means that's a huge lie
Syringe. combine it with the reduce charges and healing speed to lower the time it takes to heal with it. still strong
Bnp. 25% of a Whole gen which is huge. or 15% / 20% still a huge thing to get done.
Meta Perks. Ds / Unbreak / Adren / Bt / Dh / BL / SB . been in the game for a VERY long time without much drawbacks or nerfs.
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Ghost face is calling
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BHVR also stated WHY Double Pallets exist. It is exactly how I explained it to you. If you dont believe me-->Search Function.
Syringe is also affected by Stuff like Sloppy Butcher. But like I said, it is one of the few Survivor Items/Add Ons which did not become useless, but you cannot compare it to old Insta-Heals.
Meta Perks not nerfed? Exhaustion being put into the game? Exhaustion not going down while Running? DS nerfed twice (with Chapter 19)? BT nerfed (and later buffed, but old BT was busted)? BL removed Stagger Reduction?
All of this stuff was busted and Nurse is from the same period in the game. But she gets to stay as busted as she is, eh?
Like I said in another Post, the only thing what "balances" Nurse is that she is hard to learn and most players dont bother. If they would bother, Nurse would become a problem.
But I feel, this discussion does not lead anywhere. (And as I said, Nurse will not be reworked in such a way that she is more in line with other Killers and not completely standing out like she currently is)
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I've literally responded to this exact same comment like 3 times in this thread already.
"Better", not "strong".
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115
Stealth
Can one shot
Ide say he's the weakest strong killer rn
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