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Soooo spirit?....
Id love some consistency from BHVR... anytime a killer has even thee slightest frustration to play against as survivor you nerf it into the ground. But spirit despite having one of the easiest mechanics to master and has no REAL counter play that works more than once in a match and then the killer learns is still the same annoying killer.
And its not like people are asking for a big nerf,just an indication while in chase. Even if its something 3 seconds in to her using her power in chase.
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That's a nerf. Just say it like it is, you want a Spirit nerf.
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You can’t be serious if you think survivor is the only side that gets things nerfed...
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I mean, I, a person who plays killer, wants a Spirit nerf, so I feel what they're asking isn't unreasonable.
I mean, it's mostly so I can stop feeling unclean whenever I play her
, but, uh.4 -
Spirit doesn't need a nerf there are a other killers who are even worse than her if they know how to play them.
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I didn't say it was a problem. Just that disguising his intentions isn't going to win him any points. Just say it like it is.
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Eh, the way it was responded to seemed hostile, but that's probably just Oh-My-God o'clock brain kicking in, so bleargh.
Fair point, fair point.
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To be fair, I was trying to be sassy. I come off as standoff-ish a lot so I apologize.
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If she could make a sound every 5 seconds when using her power or something like that and the spirit would know when they're making a sound then I think she would be more fun to go against.
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She's frustrating but takes a lot of skill. Her power is nowhere near easy to master. It may seem like it sometimes but its not. And if you want a nerd, well it depends on what nerf it is. An indication would be too much. It would immensely hurt her in the fun category.
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Maybe it’s just you if you aren’t getting the hang of stridor spirit.
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Do not feel bad for playing her, that's exactly what survivors want: to shame killers for picking X killer or Y perks. Meanwhile survivors can abuse all the BS that they have and still tbag and trash talk at the endgame.
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(This is all coming from someone who is on the fringe of red ranks for both sides after being gone for years)
Spirit does need a nerf honestly. She needs a minor one and I honestly don't entirely know how to best nerf her but the fact that people get upset more over her than any other killer should say something (other than Freddy of course).
Id want her bumped down to about Pyramid head level which I still think is one of the more powerful killers in the game but I think weaker killers need buffed to a similar level of usefulness.
In general the game is more survivor favored and most killers need a buff if anything. Killers do have some issues of course, spirit being one of them.
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People that play Spirit still need to sweat against good teams. Meanwhile you can run swf, pick the map, bring a loadout of second chance perks and your best items and squash every killer you go against.
Thats not a rarity either thats most swf groups. When people get together thats when they use all their best items and offerings and split across gens and share information. These people probably win 99% of games, but nerf any killer that can even tey to be slightly competitive right so that they can just bully all the wraiths and trappers out there that they expect you to play.
The fact that so many survivors say Spirit takes no skill while they hold W and drop god pallets and abuse god windows against the loopable killers shows how little most of them know or care about balance. Plenty of maps allow survivors to waste minutes of a killers time with no skill required and as long as you have friends on gens you’ve got the game in the bag.
But nerf Spirit thats clearly the biggest problem with the game
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She just needs somewhat of a feedback during the chase. Whatever it is, it has to be shown if the Spirit is phasing. Her power is fine, because she's 110%, it has to be strong enough. The problem is that survivors have to make decisions based on nothing.
Imagine Nurse that wouldn't make any sound when charging a blink, without rising her hand, but suddenly she's in front of you, and you take the hit. It would be unfair, and imo, it's the current state of the Spirit. "Just guess" to counter, aka "just make anything random and pray Spirit makes mistakes".
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I play Spirit when I play Killer (trying to, it's not as easy to master her as everyone says for me anyways). When I go against Spirit as a survivor I don't find her as bad as everyone says. Sure, she keeps you on your toes, but Wraith doesn't make much noise either when he's floating around invisible. I find the Killers who have one-shot capabilities more annoying (like Hag with Devour Hope. Or ranged one shotting Huntress with Iri-heads). Nurse when she can blink through walls and even up a floor.
Try playing Spirit in the Game after a few drinks. I bump into stuff all the time using Yamaoka's power lol.
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I will say I think she should get a nerf to not being able to instantly grab you off of a gen after phasing. Getting a free hook is too much.
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Some people are saying she's bad seriously ? Almost every killers main put the Spirit as the second strongest killer in the game.
Good Spirit mains end their chases in 15-20 seconds.
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I’ll leave with this
Remember when survivors asked for a nerf the first time? Just a little nerf they said thats all, then they’ll shut up. Just remove the collision and then she’s fair.
So behaviour does that, few months of peace and then they all start the nerf campaign again.
This absolutely will not stop until she has the easiest and most obvious counterplay - just like Pyramid its all about switching control of the chase from killer to survivor. Thats what they’re used to, having full control of the chase against killers like Trapper, Wraith, leatherface, old freddy etc and so any killer that goes against they design they consider OP like spirit, nurse, pyramid and deathslinger.
In a way I hope they do nerf her because I think this would finally be the straw that breaks the camels back. It would be for me definitely. Not because I’m a spirit main but because it shows that survivors have creative control of the game, the game wont allow strong killers and that all killers must be at a disadvantage in a chase against the survivors. Each one of the 4 gets control of the chase against the 1 which is ridiculous design.
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Spirit is just a easier nurse
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Youre acting as if killers don't do the exact same thing back...
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The same can be said for DS with killers. DS was extremely strong, it got nerfed. Killers were fine with it for a while before they looked for it to be nerfed again (which it has been)
Does that mean that DS didn't need a nerf? No. It 100% needed to be nerfed due to how abusable it was, but that doesn't mean Spirit doesn't need a nerf just because she was once nerfed before.
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The one nerf I'd be happy to give Spirit, as someone who plays her, is this:
When phasing, she's not completely silent, but only makes a fraction of the sound she normal does, 20% maybe.
This means that a survivor will get a faint auditory warning when she is very close, something like <5 meters away, and a little louder when at <2 meters away, etc.
This basically levels the playing field, neither Spirit or Survivor can see each other, but they can each hear each other (Spirit can hear better providing no Iron Will, or with Stridor, etc.)
This will give survivors a brief early warning, probably only a second or two, that she's within striking distance. Still no useful information on where she's going to strike, but it's something that can give experienced players a slight edge at dodging her.
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Except;
1) Spirit was nerfed, DS was changed into a very different perk, that’s a huge difference.
2) DS was buffed twice after the rework, Spirit has not.
You could argue that current DS at a 5 second stun, no enduring, useable by all survivors instantly (no wiggle progress), no juggling, and a bigger skill check is actually stronger than DS was before the rework.
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Nurse is the only one who is better right now
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You can already tell from her animations/hair when she leaves the husk, but its probably a bug.
It should be made a feature and made more obvious, for the people who can't see it.
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I love pretending to fake phase by standing still and the survivor vaults the pallet towards me.
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Maybe. Maybe Spirit ISN'T one of the easiest. If it's maybe one, then it's maybe the otheras well.
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I honestly don't understand this logic. Spirit can't see the survivor when she is phasing. She also can't hear the survivor if they aren't injured or if they're running Iron Will. Have you played with Spirit and gotten 4ks right off the bat? I'm 200 hrs into the game and a rank 4 Spirit and I still get run by good survivors. I'm honestly not trying to insult you or other survivors, but every time I see a 'nerf this or that killer' post it all devolves down to them not wanting to get better at playing against the killer, just wanting the game to be easier.
I've worked at getting better with Spirit, making reads and learning loops, discovering consistencies with how survivors try to exit certain tiles. Go watch some vids on how to play against Spirit and RUN IRON WILL!
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I get that you're trying to get me to feel better about myself with a pep-talk, but you've failed right off the bat by assuming that I let other people dictate how I feel!
Spirit's pretty easy. Her movement's fantastic, her controls tight, I hate every moment.
She's cute as hell, as much as I hate to admit that (mostly because it sounds hella perverted) but I want to actually have to try in a match. She isn't fun to play, that's where the uncleanliness is coming from.
Thanks for trying to cheer me up by discarding the value of other human beings their opinions, though!
Wait, that sounds really hostile, my bad?Actually, you can both hear and see them.
You can hear the sounds of their footsteps (as well as their panting while sprinting)
and see the wake of their path (be that in corn, grass, snow, etc.)
So, uh, I hate to say that you're incorrect, but you're not exactly correct, so...?
Also, I get that Iron Will is a great perk, really, I do--but bringing a perk isn't counterplay, it's countering a kit. There is a difference, I promise.
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Ugh, ok. Have a nice day wherever you are, because I don't think we are playing the same game. It appears that you are spouting nonsense to get a response and it looks like you win, cause I responded. It would take too long to counter what you said, so enjoy your visions. Afternoon med-pass is at 3.
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I'm trying to discuss, and it legitimately hurts that apparently I'm just "too [BAD WORD] stupid to know anything"
Every time. Every time I try to have a discussion, I'm apparently just a dumbass with nothing to bring to the table. Cool.
Thanks for responding, I guess. I don't "win," because there was nothing to win in the first place.
Next time, counter my points instead of just folding over like a wet blanket, please--I don't do this for laughs.
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I'm sorry but have to stop you right now xD you're talking to me like I am a main survivor AND never play Spirit. I did play Spirit because I wanted to change killer gameplay and see what does the Spirit in game by myself, I did see A LOT of videos of Spirit players AND survivor versus Spirit. I know exactly how it works. Plus, I'm a solid killer main, I'm not crying 100% of my time to say "pls nerf dis killer its broken".
You can't hear survivors but you see scratch marks and you see if grass is moving. Yes, sure, there isn't every time grass, I agree, and good survivors will avoid touching grass, but there, you have a doubt ? Stop phasing, you're near them, you gained a lot of distance over them. And if the survivor is injured the survivor is done. Iron will ? 95% of spirit players run Stridor, that completely counters Iron Will. Good Spirits know how to play around Iron Will, this is a habit, this is training.
And, coming back to "when the survivor is not injured it's difficult", zone out the survivor somewhere it would be hard to avoid your lunge. When survivors are not injured, you have to zone out and get closer, don't try to be greedy and get a post-phasing hit. Same for Iron Will if you haven't Stridor.
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But... You can hear spirit moving in the same way she can hear you. She ruffles grass too. I think survivors who want a spirit nerf just don't want to pay attention to the audio and minor details like grass movement.
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As one of those people who mains extremely strong, sometimes massively underrated killers (Blight and Plague, at the moment), no. Spirit is indeed only outclassed by Nurse, and even then her add-ons make her worse. She is an absolute powerhouse of a killer whose oppressive chase is hugely complimented by amazing mobility and just a general design style that just makes every survivor look like an idiot when she's chasing them.
Killers like Deathslinger, Doctor and Pyramid Head are weak enough that their oppressive chase potential is, balance-wise, negated by the time they take to down survivors and traverse the map. Hag is... Hag. And Bubba, Huntress and Billy all rely on survivors making mistakes in order to down them.
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I don't think Spirit needs a nerf. People that say spirit is fine are the people that play her and 'UNDERSTAND' how she thinks. It's called 'Using your brain'
Survivors want every little detail on what killers are doing so that they don't have to use their brain. They wanna auto pilot brain dead loop.
Upset that she adapted to your tactics and now you can't do anything? Sounds like Nurse, but for some unknown reason Sally's high skill cap dismisses that.
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2 seconds of warning is about all you get with the Nurse.
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How does Spirit not require skill? Plenty of spirit players have to absolutely sweat to get wins. Do you not remember when there was a tournament last year and plenty of thousands of hours tryhards all struggled to get kills with Spirit? They all often resorted to camp and NOED and even then they couldn’t get a 4k.
I think the talk of any killer not requiring skill is ridiculous when currently you don’t need any skill as survivor to win games. You can waste plenty of the killers time by holding W and using god pallets/ultra safe windows on some maps.
Thats not to say some survivors dont have skill, its just that you dont need it to win. Just abuse the most broken loops or areas of the map, hold w, get everyone to do that and sit on gens and most killers are powerless against it
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Yeah, you get a couple of seconds as the Nurse is charging up her blink, so you change direction.
You hear the Spirit is close to you... so you change direction.
In either case, you get a brief warning in which you have to make yourself unpredictable. That's the counterplay to each of them, unpredictability.
Anything more than that would nerf the Spirit into a M1 killer with some additional mobility.
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As someone who plays Spirit a lot, yes it would.
If I'm literally on top of someone, I can pop out of phase and swing... in the opposite direction the survivor is in, because they're now right behind me, because they changed direction at the last second.
Being right on top is not a guaranteed hit. It's much easier to hang back a little, pop out of phase, see where the survivor is going, and then swing a second or two later.
If you change direction at the last minute, you might not be in my FoV when I pop out of phase, and that could give you more than enough of a lead on me so that I'm just back into a normal chase now, a few meters behind you.
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Oh look, Spirit-nerf-thread #5967, how original.
Maybe take them not nerfing Spirit further than they already did as a hint?
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On the internet it is difficult to determine tone so when someone goes out of their way to communicate condescension it comes across as... condescending. If you have issues (your own words) "Every time." you try to have a discussion then maybe there is an issue with how you communicate. On the internet you have to go out of your way to have tone interpreted whether you're being a jerk or being polite. Your post to me seemed clear that you were going out of your way to be condescending.
----So, uh, I hate to say that you're incorrect, but you're not exactly correct, so...?---
That's condescending and not coming from someone who is looking for intelligent discourse. If someone is wants to share ideas and grow from other people's perspectives then they phrase things differently than this. When someone comes at the discussion like this, the discussion ends. I won't continue to engage with this. I may be wrong to drop it the way I did and that's on me, but now you know my thought process.
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Spirit is NOT one of the easiest killers in the game. If you think she is, then you're just a salty survivor main.
There. I said it on the internet so it's true, right?! Am I cool like you spouting my opinion as fact and insulting people that disagree?
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There's no such thing as "genrushing as fast as possible", great skillchecks aside gens take 80 seconds regardless of whether you're playing casual or tournament. As a survivor you're either doing gens or you're not. Considering how little else there is to do in the game if you're not a timid new player who hides at the sound of a heartbeart, and if you have no interest in raiding chests or doing totems then survivors will be on gens - just like in any tournament.
Also survivor takes no skill on some maps so I guess Spirit is perfect for the game then right? running around a wall over and over again and then hitting space to drop a pallet when the killer gets too close is hardly esports level gaming.
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Facts are empirically supported. Your opinion is not. You have no empirical evidence besides your experience, which means you have an opinion that you are spouting as fact.
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Fair enough, I can't argue with that--s'why I prefer to chat face-to-face with folks I suppose, tone comes across immediately.
I'm told I speak with my whole body, so the lack of that's probably sweeping my proverbial legs out from under me here.
Hm.
Well, thanks for any kind of feedback, really.
I find it inherently validating to speak with others, so getting a chance to improve is always nice.
Jesus, why, I still sound insincere. Well, you get my intention, I hope.0 -
Face to face would most definitely be the preferred way to communicate for decent people, I agree. We do the best with what we can most of the times and sometimes things get toxic.... fast! I take full responsibility for my role in it all. I've been known to be thin-skinned, so lesson learned for me.
/knuckles....boom
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A direct nerf is not what she needs though. She needs counterplay added that both sides can use. My personal favorite, is to make her phase in and out while using her power (similar to her passive phase) during which both spirit and the survivor are able to see. This creates some more counterplay on both sides to be able to bait each other out.
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You are describing what is called an 'argumentum ad populum' which states that if the majority believe it then it must be true. This is a fallacious argument. First, you have NO IDEA what the majority thinks so that is an invalid point. Maybe the majority of your friends or majority of people you choose to read about it share that opinion but that does not make it true. Facts are not created by majority opinion. Again, empirical evidence is necessary to establish fact and you continue to provide none. Instead you have brought some insane notion that since many people say it then it must be so. The absurdity of this should be evident. This is getting into groupthink territory and I need go no further than the spaceshuttle Challenger to demonstrate how harmful this mindset can be.
"Spirit is easy to play" is an opinion supported by no empirical evidence that I can find and insulting people because they don't agree with your opinion is the epitome of adolescent name calling. Come see me on stream and I'd be more than happy to continue the conversation... while I play Spirit. :)
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I definitely get you. It's very rare for a game to require you to use your ears like DbD and Spirit takes this to the pinnacle requiring precision. I would say that she is the third hardest killer in the game, only losing to Nurse and Blight and perhaps Billy.
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/shakeshead Ok Ma'am. Whatever you say.
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