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Hard tunneling and camping is way to common
I have played 8 games today and 6 of them had a killer that face camps or had tunnels 1 player the whole game. Its even more frustrating when you get done 3 gens and save your allies twice but still depip because the killer downs you and face camps you. The devs need to do something to discourage this kind of play style because it is extremely toxic and completely unfun to play against. I also know killers are gonna argue that it’s fair they get to use these toxic strategies since survivors can use swf but the devs could also just give killers a bonus for playing against a swf. Something needs to be done about these toxic strategies
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In my experience if a killer starts to facecamp, that person dies and the others finish the gens and leave. The killer has to willingly throw the match when facecamping. Tunneling and slugging is a whole different ballpark however
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Nothing will be done about camping or tunneling until the devs could figure out how to nerf them while nerfing generator repair time without making the game boring for both sides. As things stand, most of the killers have to tunnel/camp unless they're Spirit or Nurse. You can go watch top level game play videos and you will see that killers must incorporate unfun strategies if they want to have a chance.
The best thing you can do is to learn how to loop and stealth better.
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Good eye on facecamping.
If a killer is tunneling its because the team isn't bothering to protect a weakened survivor. Bodyblock, be a juicier target, deliberately mislead the scratchmarks. A big problem with survivors crying tunneling is they will rescue the hook and then immediately hide and unless the person they saved has iron will they CAN'T hide, so the killer checks the hook and hears a dude crying and its over. This is why part of good solo play is trying to ensure your not the first victim: In SWF you can know all your buds know how to properly do hook rescues and not accidently farm you. In Solo you only know your own skills so you naturally need to play a little more immersed so if someone goes down you can do a rescue that ACTUALLY takes heat off them.
If you refuse to take heat off the injured survivor... what is the killer gunna do? Close their eyes and pretend they didn't see or hear them despite them being trivial to down again?
Slugging occurs when the killer is worried about tempo. It is a normal and healthy part of the game that allows the killer to trade kill progress for tempo, and it only happens 'too much' when the killer doesn't feel like hooks are worth it unless they already won the game defacto. The killer has no obligation to drop all pressure on the map to hook you, its a VITAL part of the game they can just leave you there and thus make it take longer for your team to get you back on gens at the expense of not extending hook state. You.... kinda have to slug as a killer at the higher end, its just such a basic part of their toolkit because doing the wrong thing with a downed survivor is throwing the game.
You will not win DBD as a killer, even vs a bad team, winning a chase vs a healthy survivor, hooking right away, letting the rescue happen, letting them heal, and hooking a different survivor over and over so that everyone gets all 3 hooks and no one dies until everyone is on second hook. That just isn't going to happen, and while being slugged isn't fun, its completely fair. Fairness matters WAY MORE than fun, because not every gamestate CAN be fun for every player: some need to be inherently negative, and losing a chase is meant to be inherently negative and result in the survivor taking a breather for a minute. Its a key part of the emotional experience and, ironically, is a big part of why survivor is more chill in general (You get these 'low points' that happen to serve double duty as breathers... save for second hook stage, which sucks and really needs to lose the spacebar mashing).
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Well, they try to make perks like BBQ & Chili but then Survivors call for that sort of thing to get nerfed, too. So I don't know what Survivors want at this point.
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Survivors are a classic example 'you think you want that but you don't.'
If survivors had their way, camping would be impossible, there would be no player elimination, and survivors would share hook states so that they couldn't be tunneled. Oh and they would have even more tools to mess with the killer.
They made that game, it was called Deathgarden, and not only was it miserable for the hunters, survivors got really bored really fast because, as it turns out, reducing the variance of consiquences from being hooked from 'lose 1 of 3 hook states' to 'lose the game from your team' to just 'lose 1 of 3 hook states' made the game really flat because every match felt exactly the same and chases lost all tension.
DBD NEEDS losing chases as survivors to not feel good in order for the REST of the game to have tension. DBD is, ultimately, a pretty boring game when you just look at the core mechanics: Hold M1 on a gen, run in a circle around these objects. It only is fun in the context that failing to say... anticipate and track the killer while holding M1 is really bad, or getting the chance to hold M1 for a long time is really rare because the killer has enough map pressure, or when running in circles even a LITTLE bit wrong may end the game then and there because of a snowball. Without that tension the game... isn't even a game, which is why "M1 simulator" was such a common complaint and survivors wanted fancier objectives back when vacuum pallets were added and survivors basically COULDN'T lose chases.
This isn't to say survivors should be helpless or feel powerless: They are survivors, not victims. Its just DBD is made a better game when you need to seize survival from the killer by any means necessary rather than being allowed to assume minimum consequences for any action.
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In my opinion if the killer is face camping and survivors doing gens to leave, this is not an actual solution for the problem. because the player on the hook is not having fun and got their time wasted.
Tunneling is something else and maybe forgivable but still annoying.
I faced only one killer today that felt pity for tunneling me after second hook.
If DBD are thinking about changes then we may see them in a few months or more.
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We want camping to be ######### gone. Just played 3 more games and in 2 of the I was face camped the second I got downed and deranked because of it. Camping needs to go it is toxic and uninteractive.
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Its a bad case of the cure being worse than the disease though.
Face camping 'self corrects' at least rank wise: it isn't gunna happen and seriously affect matches outside gutter ranks or you being so odious the killer decides to throw the match for ya (like say... bringing a key). So you generally have control over it not happening by just... playing well consistently.
Meanwhile the devs have talked about further anti-camping stuff and said flat out they aren't ever going to do it because it breaks the game too much if the killer is even a little bit punished for defending the hook outside of tempo loss, because an insta-unhook is the worst case scenario for the killer. So even stuff like 'It doesn't trigger in a chase' doesn't work cuz someone can just sit near the hook hiding and punish you even if you know they are there just because you can't chase them quickly.
I do agree that "Policy Facecamp" is a problem... but its a problem in the same way that say... DPS Moria is a problem in Overwatch... like yeah its not ideal but doing stuff to punish the character for sometimes fighting or using DPS ball rather than heal ball kinda... breaks the character and the healer role because she actually DOES need to fight quite often.
If we are looking for clear problems with easy solutions that do nothing but make DBD worse we got a lot of places to start before the relatively rare and contained issue that is facecamping.
What rank are you?
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I’m rank 8 currently just deranked from rank 7 thanks to a face camping hag and huntress back to back
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Okay? Produce a reason why Killers should not do those things other than because you don't want them to.
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Secure your pip before putting yourself in the killer's attention. That's the risk of being a potential victim.
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What rank are you?
Rank doesnt matter. I had a game where I almost done a Gen, then doctor chased me. Got hooked
Another survivor unhook me, tried to heal but doctor was coming, the team mate tanking a hit, then doctor on me again, until I got 2nd hook. The samething happened again until I got 3rd hook. 3 chases was long enough for other 3 survivor finish all Gens. Then they all escape. I feel good for them.
My build was Lithe, Fixate, Urban, Tenacity
I had 15k BP, killer had 19k. All my team mates had around 25-29k.
Was it fun for me when from the start to the last hook, I died in only 4 hits? No
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Doesn't really apply when the killer rounds a corner one tile away from where you spawn and proceeds to remove you from the game.
Yes, I'll "secure my pip" before the very first chase. Every survivor gets a chance to do this every game, yes.
In case you couldn't tell, thatwassarcasm. Just to communicate clearly.Silly tactics at five gens are downright unfriendly. A bit unsportsmanlike, one might say.
It may not be the "job" of the killer to make the game fun for others, but punishing people for no reason's a bit off, yeah?
...Maybe I'm just an idealist.2 -
These last days hard tunneling and camping is the norm. But probably because unfortunately I achieved rank 5, almost 4. People always say that camping and tunneling is something of lower ranks, but that's not true. In red ranks, heavy tunneling and camping is the norm right from the start, in my experience. Whenever I get a green rank, thanks to matchmaking, the killer just plays normally. They camp or maybe tunnel at 1 gens or when they're all repaired? Yes. But I can't blame them for that. But at least it's not right from the start out of despair to keep a high rank.
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Just got home, worked 14 hours. First game, straight tunneled, bad teammates. Waiting the 10 - 20 minutes on one more match before I pass out. Don't blame killer, was only rank 13, but yeah, it's pretty common.
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Yeah. It sucks, but yeah. A lot of people just don't feel like they even have a chance of winning any other way and others think that kill=win. Which, I guess good for them, imagine how amazing it would be to facecamp skemkne to death and genuinely think you accomplished something.
It's sad that dbd is in such a state where killers feel like they have to play dirty in order to match survivors.
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Also against looping.. it's toxic, as well as healing.. if you let a survivor go and he heals you lose points.. so there's tunneling encouragement there..
The game overall is toxic.. so what? Learn to enjoy it..
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Why Is it playing dirty?
It's actually encouraged by the point system, if you let a survivor go and heals you lose points.. is looping playing dirty? Making killer waste time 2 o 3 gen? Gen rush? Des. Strike?
You survivors like to bully and cry about anything when you lose..
The game is just fine.. minor adjustments may be needed.. is cause of this feeling that it have many people hooked on it..
Tunneling is such a bad strategy against good teams.. and good strategy against bad teams..
But only the bad teams complain cause they lost against a tuneler.. if you where good at the game at least 3 would survive against a tuneler.. ez..
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That's because alot of killers suck at the game. Of course so do alot of survivors. In an ideal universe everyone would just play a chill game and not worry about winning and just try to have fun.
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STOP
FEEDING
THE
CAMPERS
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In my ideal universe everybody would accept that everybody has a different play style and rolls with it.
Niether will get what we want.
But frankly, I think my viewpoint is the more pragmatic on.
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doubtful
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Probably. One can dream though.
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That's the thing.. a bad killer tunnels it doesn't get far..
A bad killer tunnels it gets to red rank..
The difference is to use it as a strategy on certain teams not on all..
Use it on the right teams you get all, use it on the wrong teams 3 escape..
Same thing on survivors, why gen rush? Why Des. Strike? Why borrowed time?
Everyone is free to make whatever the game allows it.. just enjoy yourself
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Then get better at it..
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So let me get this straight.
The teammate tried to unhook in front of the killer without BT, a killer famous for having good detection and the ability to really stick to survivors, and farmed you off the hook and your mad at the DOCTOR?
Be mad at your teammate. There is no rush to get someone off the hook, you have a full 60 seconds before the hook state advances and the longer you wait the more your punishing the killer for patrolling. Only go for an early unhook if you confirm the killer is actually gone (vs doctor, for example, its a good bet he is a bit distracted if you hear another survivor scream).
What was the doctor supposed to do? Again, close his eyes and pretend to not see you? Just taking the hit isn't enough you need to bait a full chase and keep them off the other dude. If the doctor just got a nice little tap on your buddy's butt while they were unhooking and then your buddy vanished as you started to run, then yeah the doc is gunna go for you.
That sounds like a super fair gameplay interaction: Your buddy messed up the unhook and you got wrecked. To that I say... GOOD.
Now if we want to change up the game so the killer has a super innate tempo lead from hooking so they aren't encouraged to eliminate players efficiently, basically changing it from being efficient to eliminate players to being efficient to spread the pain, we could do that.
But any time the idea gets floated survivors don't like it. We are talking like 'Each time your hooked lose 33% repair speed" to actually create a scenario where the killer isn't massively encouraged to get a survivor out of the game.
The killer isn't there to show you a good time. They aren't your babysitter. They aren't there to give you a puppet show and read you a bedtime story. But more importantly, it isn't the game designer's job to ensure you never have a negative experience in the game. Actually quite the opposite. The entire gameplay loop of the game, again, involves the killer being, if not a source of fear (No one is afraid in DBD), a source of tension. Tension REQUIRES an anticipated negative result: If you didn't give a ######### the game WOULD NOT BE GOOD.
Its an asymetric competitive game, that means for the game to work sometimes ######### has to suck for you sometimes. Sometimes you need to lose, get trashed, or be in an unfun situation, to give context to the entire experience.
This is basic ludology: Gamestates need to matter and be distinct from each other, and each side needs gamestates where they are more or less in control than the other. It isn't 'being a dick' to put you into a gamestate where you lack control, and recontextualizing 'I lost a major interaction and am now in a deeply disadvantaged gamestate where my opponent WILL win unless something exceptional happens' as 'This is unfair and unfun because I want to play the game' is ridiculous, its like crying that your booted from the round of Apex legends cuz your team got wiped or that your out of the round in counterstrike because you charged an AWP with a handgun and now you gotta sit there not playing and you have less money now too so its harder in the future.
"Your in a bad spot and probably will lose" isn't just standard in games. Its literally necessary for a game to make sense as a game. If any point of survivor play gave you as much control over your own fate as any other, it would mean good survivor play doesn't matter, which is EXACTLY how Deathgarden worked, and that game died because it was really boring for all sides because gamestate didn't matter.
BHVR did an amazingly expensive test run of a 'no camp' system in the form of a massive game that they paid licensing fees towards WB for and it flopped so crazy hard. You do not want this.
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Not sure about all killers..
But in my case I facecamp to be toxic intentionally ... some survivors have toxic play that I don't enjoy.. so, they annoy me, I annoy them back..
For some reason most of those survivors feel that they can be toxic to the killer but can't take to have the killer being toxic at them..
Part of the game.. want to feel the rush of getting the killers attention, then add the tension of being facecamped if you get caught..
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You can't blame a player for using the tools in front of him.
Listen, you want to camp - have at it. There's times where's it's the right call strategically (everybody is there, nobody on gens, doors are open, ect).
But camping to be spiteful.... don't you think that makes you a bit of a hypocrite? Have a little self-awareness man.
Give them the benefit of the doubt - assume they're doing a ritual or rift and focus on getting better at beating that play man
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Do you like going against genrushing? Second chance abuse? Hold-W? Pallet camping?
It's playing dirty because it's absolutely miserable for your opponents. It is literally the last thing anyone wants to deal with and it's not even necessary, it's just being lazy.
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I don't think you understand the meaning of hypocrisy..
Get a dictionary..
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That's the point.. don't like it, but survivors do it nonetheless.. so I put my big boy pants and do what I'm suppose to do.. kill them all... not cry about it..
If you don't like the fact that your opponent will make you miserable cause he wants to win too, then don't play this type of games..
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hy·poc·ri·sy
/həˈpäkrəsē/
noun: hypocrisy; plural noun: hypocrisies
the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense."
Example - hypocrisy of a man who has trashed fellow politicians for vacationing during crises - vacationing in Cancun during a crisis himself.
If you are being Pendantic for the sake of deflecting my argument and not answering for your actions, I guess you're right. But does it really change anything?
Does it really detract from my point? Retribution then? Will you accept that?
And retribution fixes what exactly? Certainly doesn't make you a better player. If anything, you justify others to keep playing in a manner that annoys you in retribution of your own bad deeds. As the saying goes, "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".
Admitting you camp to piss people off doesn't make you a badass - just makes you look like a small, bitter, person.
You want a better game? Be a better player and just beat them.
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Ohh sorry Mr millenial..
Yea, you can call it retribution..
And I do win to those I kill by facecamp..
I do enjoy it.. you call it small and bitter? Yea you all sheep's do that..
That's how you weaklings feel stronger now a days, by trying to bully the bully first.. you HYPOCRITE..
Want a better game? I do get to rank 1.. whenever I want to do points ..
I do enjoy the game, put my big boy pants and not cry about what I don't like..
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LMAO.... I turn 50 this year. I'm generation X. I got gray in my beard and scotch on my breath. But thanks for the compliment - most millinial friends I have are good people who just want to make the world better - can't fault them for that.
If you think I'm crying, you're sorely mistaken. I'm only questioning your motives because I used to be just like you. And honestly, I'm rolling my eyes because I see so much of my old mannerisms in the way you bluster about your retribution.
Again - I'm all about letting people play the way they want to to meet their objectives. You want to camp because the generators are done or everybody is rushing the hook - I support that. But doing it to "get back at people?"
Be honest with yourself - you're playing in a way you perceive makes you a tool because you're butthurt about how people are beating you. And frankly man, that's pretty ######### pathetic.
I'm sorry buddy, but the insecure child here is looking right back at you in the mirror.
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Your pathetic, the fact that you take this so seriously proves it..
It's a game..
Be thru to yourself..
BTW.. aren't you to old (not mature) for all of this..
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Yes... it's absolutely a game.
But you just admitted that you let your emotions get to you by playing in such a matter.
And frankly, somebody who stoops to petty retribution has about as much right to talk about maturity as Kim Jon Un has to talk about human rights. You have about as much self-awareness as a dog licking his own #########.
Maybe one day the words will sink in and you'll realize what a fool you were...
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Yeah, that day will be when I realize that I texted to an old miserable guy that feels too high of himself while playing video games..
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You say that hooking everyone without tunnelling and slugging is impossible, yet myself and people I have seen in survivor games and on youtube have been able to do it without too much of a hassle. Yeah, there is usually only 1-2 gens left when it's done and over, but a longer game means more points anyway.
I'm not trying to say that tunnelling and slugging is wrong (though camping just sucks), but to say that winning a game without tunnelling and slugging isn't going to happen is downright wrong. It could just mean that you aren't playing the killer correctly, the killer you're playing isn't good enough, or the survivors know what they're doing and have items/offerings that happen to counter your perks or killer choice.
It is somewhat difficult, but it can definitely happen.
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Killers used Undying Ruin to slowdown gens by spreading the damage, forcing survivors off the gens and pressure them. This only worked when killers didn't camp and tunnel.
Unfortunately survivors didn't like that playstyle and wanted Undying nerfed.
Now that Undying is gone, killers have no real way to slowdown gens. So they resort to camping and tunneling. As those things also pressure survivors.
Honestly, what did survivors expect would happen? You were to lazy to do bones and only wanted to focus on your primary objective. Well, surprise, killers now do the same.
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Almost every single game I get now has some stupid toxic clicky clicky tbag tbag moron in it with a boosted ego. They think they’re better than they are due to the devs being terrible at map design and balance, so holding W to run killers from safe pallet to safe pallet and having 4 second chances to rely on in case of trouble really has these players feeling themselves. I can’t stress enough how this is almost every game. They have no intention of playing normally and their whole purpose is to annoy and frustrate other people.
I’ve started playing toxic too. Facecamp and generously handing out a few slaps to survivors on the hook. It’s hilarious how everybody wants to be toxic but when the killer plays toxic all of a sudden the tears start flowing and people wanna talk about fairness and good sportsmanship. I’m gonna keep doing it with absolutely no regrets too because screw this community and the way it acts, and secondly it’s actually kinda fun.
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"Do you like going against genrushing? Second chance abuse? Hold-W? Pallet camping?"
This is literally every survivor in red ranks. The second chance crutch perks that everyone uses is just the icing on the cake.
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Or maybe you can go play comp DbD or whatever it is you think you're doing while I have some chill fun with people that wipe the floor with me without resorting to being a lazy BMer.
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I'm a killer main but I played survivor for a change the last month and... Wow. I'm honestly just so disappointed in all the other killers. None of them appear to be trying what soever. They spend 5 min in a chase then... Decide they'll sit in front of that survivor the entire match until all gens go, they get one more kill from noed and depip? I mean come on guys it's embarrassing. Learn to actually play, you aren't improving as killer by standing in front of a hook for 5 min. It's just sad. At this point I don't even want to defend killer anymore because now I've seen how toxic 80% of them actually are. Guys.... Step up your game.
Edit: an exception to this were a few people I could tell were just trying to learn and be wholesome. You guys go, I'm proud :)
Also red ranks... Well done? Idk why we get matched together but it's pretty impressive.
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So in the past 24 hours
Camping - Toxic
Slugging - Toxic
BBQ - Toxic
Gen defense - Toxic
Killing any survivor before all are on death hook - Toxic
Hitting one survivor while another is down or being carried - Toxic
Basement hooking - Toxic
Hooking next to gens - Toxic
Hooking at EGC - Toxic
Returning to a hook when I see a save has occurred - Toxic
You know, it's a really good thing I don't take this forum seriously enough to let it dictate my playstyle, or my killer matches would just see me staring at walls and playing with the crows until everyone left.
Post edited by AsherFrost on1 -
I wish this could be made to appear in every thread, right at the top.
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