Camping and tunneling
I know that Camping and tunneling are considered as a legit strategy, and i understand it when it is during the end game (2 generators left and beyond) but when the killer is camping and tunneling from the start of the trial, it's not fair for the survivor that is harassed by such a behavior and for the other survivors that will have to gen rush.
What are the results of those games ? There are 2 solutions :
- The other survivors are super friendly and altruists
They will try to save the camped/tunneled survivor, they won't do gens fast enough to do so and the killer will earn ton of points and will win the trial.
- The other survivors gen rush while the camped one stay on the hook as long as possible
They will succeed to do all gens and to escape. Killer will get 1k. Problem is the camped survivor trial is ruined; the other survivors won't get much point, they might Depipe cause they did nothing but gen rush and the killer migh still have enough point to save pipe if the first survivor gave him a good chase and if after the 1st hooked surv died the killer got some more points chasing the survivors left.
For the survivors, in both cases they are punished whiled it is the killer's fault if the trial was terrible and not fun to play.
For the killer, it won't be a big deal. So when is the killer punished for such behavior ?
Honestly, in EU red ranks, there are ton and ton of killers camping and tunneling, it's been a plague for years now and they continue to do so. Why ? Because there is no punishment. A killer playing like this should de-pipe 100% of the time to green rank. How is it possible to have 70% of red rank killers playing like this ?
I'm pissed that developpers didn't adress this issue. I'm doing ok soloQing, but most of the time a survivor is tunneled and camped in the trials i play...
You should really look into this issue cause there is a survivor suiciding on hook 1 game out of 2 atm...
Comments
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The killer is punished in situation 2.
If the camped survivor recognizes it's camping and they prolong the sacrifice as long as possible. The other 3 can do 4 gens in that time. Eventually that killer learns or you outrank that killer. Rinse and repeat.
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Why should it be punished? They were planned features from the beginning of developement.
Insidious doesn´t exist by accidient.
People warned, that the nerf of Undying would result in killers adjusting their playstyle.
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They aren't going to look into the issue anymore than they have.
- they already add perks that give the killer power for leaving the hook
- they already punish the killer pip and point wise for camping the hook
Frankly, leaving the 1 person to rot is the best choice.
- The game is fast and short, so you don't have to put up with the camper long
- 3 out of the 4 survivors are guaranteed to get something
- The killer will eventually get the hint as his blood point income slows to a trickle in a game that is grindy as #########..
So what if 1 person doesn't have fun? there is no way you can guarantee that everybody is going to have fun in a game - that's a pipe dream. At least it's short. It takes only 2 minutes for that person to die. 2 minutes of your entire evening sitting on a hook. FFS, I microwave a breakfast sandwich in half that time. In 2 minutes, it's over and they can try their luck again.
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Im playing for 2 years red rank europe. There are not many killer who do that. Its a lot worse in purple and below.
I would like a incentive to stop this behaviour, too, but its not that easy. My teammates need to be really bad, that a killer goes for 12 hooks and still win. A killer needs a kill at 6-7 hooks to win. So you would need to buff going for many hooks and nerf tunneling at the same time.
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I agree with you but this works in SWF... i mean you know it as i do, soloQ survivors will suicide on hook if camped, they will P1 to P3 in 10 sec.
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I see it as well. That's why I never let go in solo unless it's an instadown killer and people are going to get downed to try and save me.
If we spread this message to as many solo survivors as possible, more campers get punished and either sink or swim...
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Ye, adding Insiduous was a mistake, i mean who would implement a perk that favor harassment in a video game ?
Cause when a survivor is tunneled and camped, the feeling is exactly the same than being harassed. I mean, i don't know about you but i'm not playing to stay on a hook or to do gen rush (if i'm not the one hooked).
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Yup, that's pretty much par for the course in multiplayer gaming. Some scrub is always going to do the least right thing out of selfishness.
Devs can't fix that. All you can do is push your hardest past people like this on your own. Or decide this just isn't for you and find something else to do.
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Then that isn't the Killers fault.
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So for you, for a crime, the one executing the bad things is not responsible ? The one responsible is the witness that didn't call the cop ?
It's absurd...
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We know there are many problems in the game, there wouldn't be so many DC/suicides on hook if it was not the case.
I see more survivors DCing/suiciding than killers DCing, it means a lot.
During the past two months i have seen 2 killers DCing and 2 going to a corner and waiting the end of the game.
I cannot count how many survivors i saw suicidng/DCing.
I'm playing everyday, 1 to 2 hours a day.
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If the Survivors kill themselves on hook and they KNOW that in order for their team to win, they need to not kill themselves, HOW is that the Killer's fault.
Is being camped fun? No. Is being tunneled fun? No. Are they problems? No. Is legitimate facecamping fun? No. Is it easy to punish, yes.
If a Killer constantly swings at Dead Hard, that's his fault for swinging. Likewise, if a Survivor kills themselves on hook against a camping Killer, that is their fault.
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Thats not harassment. Remember, its a pvp game. Or would you complain if someone killed you in CoD?
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Honestly, why would the survivor stay on the hook for 5 minutes loosing time while he can just suicide and go to the next game that will provide fun ?
The game is dead for this survivor anyway so next...
It's the killer's fault, the killer decided to camp and tunnel, not the survivors.
One way to fix this is to evaluate the points + emblems levels for the whole team. This would force teamplay.
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Because he wants his team to win? Or does everyone play incredibly selfishly. That might be your problem.
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Everyone does lol... what's wrong with you ? Do we play the same game ? You never soloQ right ? 99% of the survivors are suiciding when camped, what are you talking about ?
If you are here to troll and distord the reality, you can stop answering here.
When camped, survivors are suiciding when they are soloQ/duoQ ing so next, what solution do you propose ? A course for all survivors teaching them how to behave in society ? Maybe you need one as it seems you give moral lessons to someone that is pointing a problem while you the only thing you say is "gneugneu they should not suicide they are selfish".
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DC's and suicides are people who have so little self-awareness they don't realize they shouldn't be wasting their time on a game they obviously have no business playing because they are not enjoying themselves.
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Ah ok, i didn't know we were living in disney world where everyone is kind and altruist and lovely but the sorceress...
Sry mate, i don't live in the same world as the one in your head.
So Survivors that are camped will suicide 99% of the time. What do you propose then ? A social course to teach everyone how to behave ?
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Well there would not be many survivors left then =).
And camping/tunneling is not selfish ? Ruining someone's else trial without any reason just because the killer is frustrated is not bad at all ?
It looks like ppl here have a weird way of thinking.
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"It's not fair"
That says it all right there. I had to get better playing against red rank bully squads among other things. Use those game as an opportunity to get better.
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Here's the Killer's win condition if they are facecamping.
If the Survivor kills themselves, the Killer wins.
If the Survivor stays alive, they lose...badly.
I did not know that you were going to start insulting me for offering a rational argument and a solution to your issue.
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So to resume how some ppl think here :
- Survivor suicides on hook while camped are selfish as they don't support their team but a killer camping a survivor and ruining the game for this one without reason is not selfish, it's all good
- If the survivor suicide, it's its own fault but not the camper killer's one
There are moral problems here, i don't know but let's copy paste this in the real world :
- You quit your job and leave your team cause you can't accept to be cornered by your boss anymore, your team will have problem finishing their mission, you are selfish but your boss harassing you till you leave the company is an ok person, anyway it's the rules, he can do whatever he wants
- You suicide at your job because your boss harassed you, it's your own fault but not your boss'
Ye, clearly moral issues here.
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I think you are having some trouble with this, so I'll help summarize what people are actually saying.
If a Survivor suicides on hook, they are KNOWINGLY dooming their team if the Killer is facecamping. Facecamping isn't fun, but it isn't a good strat and is easily countered by....not suiciding on hook. The Killer, frankly, is dumb for doing it as most good Survivors will simply gen rush and be done with the game.
If the Survivor suicides on hook, it is ABSOLUTELY their fault. The Killer can't force them to do anything. Even if the Survivor left to get a snack and died when they got to struggle, that would be better than suiciding right off the bat.
The best thing you can do to stop people from facecamping is to stay alive on hook and let your team do gens. The Killer WILL de-pip and de-rank.
CAMPING IS ONLY VIABLE IF SURVIVORS MAKE IT VIABLE. YOU HAVE THE POWER TO FORCE THAT KILLER TO DE-PIP, USE IT!
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You started to be offensive =).
And no, if the survivor stay alive, the killer might still win =).
Hook total time is 120 sec. Let's say the survivor hold the killer for 100 seconds (finding the surv, chasing, hooking) before being hooked, it's then 220 seconds. it's not even 3 generators :).
So there are 2 gens left, the killer will get some chases and even get a kill, especially against soloQ players, he might even get 3k.
So cheap mechanics high reward as SWF represent less than 10% of the games in red rank (if my memory is correct).
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Do the maths, you are totally wrong but i'm sure you are a killer main :).
If the survivor holds the killer for 100 seconds then got hooked and camped.
Hook total time till death is 120 seconds. So it's a total of 220 seconds.
Now count, how many generators can you do in that time ? 5 BUT only if you are in SWF =).
If they are soloQ survivors, some will try to help, depending the killer, they might even be downed and slugged etc...
So no, camping and tunneling is a cheap mechanics with a high reward when you face soloQ/duoQ teams. Against SWF it's another story but SWF represents only 10% of the games if my memory is correct.
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"it's not fair for the survivor that is harassed by such a behavior"
First of all that is only 25% of the survivors it is a team so the camped/tunneled survivor can be happy about the others doing gens instead of thinking selfish. And "such behavior" it's part of the game and legit as you said it's nothing the killer should feel guilty about just as survivors should not feel guilty for looping and gen rush etc. It's part of the game and nothing wrong.
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How was I offensive? All I did was provide a reasonable argument.
Your math is wrong. One gen (Solo) takes 80 seconds. There are three other people. Even if they all did separate gens, that's three gens done. If the next Survivor can loop for as long as the first, they can finish all 5 gens.
Using your numbers, 100 seconds of chase and 120 on hook does give 220 seconds. Which equals about 3 gens. If the next Survivor (who was on a Solo gen) gets chased for another 100 seconds, they finish the last gen and at the bare minimum, two escape.
This will force the Killer to de-pip at any Rank above Green. In Red Ranks, you would probably end up with a Bronze Devout, Silver Chaser, Silver Maliciousness and Bronze Deviousness.
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Reverse Uno card !
I know that Gen rushing, playing sfw and keys using are considered as a legit strategy, and i understand it when it is during the end game (2 generators left and beyond) but when the survivors is genrushing, playing in coms and planing to use a key from the start of the trial, it's not fair for the killer that is harassed by such a behavior.
What are the results of those games ? There are 2 solutions :
- The killer are super friendly and fair
He will try to not tunnel/camp/slug, go for 12 hooks, he will have 6-8 hooks at best by the time all gens are done (cause the main survivor's objective is faster to do than the killer's objectives), he will mostly depip and maybe get 1k, BP will be ridiculous and he will be BM'ed 2 out of 3 game (tbag, ez in end game chat).
- The killer use cheap tactics to compensate his delay
He will slug, tunnel and sometimes proxy camp. Killer will get 2 to 4k. Problem is the killer trial is ruined; the killer won't get much point, he might still Depipe cause he did kill most of them but not like the game want him to win cause he will not have 12 chase/24 hits/12 hooks and the survivors will still have enough point to save pipe if not piping.
For the survivors, in both cases they are punished while it is the dev's fault if the trial was terrible and not fun to play, cause they know gens is too fast at high lvl but didn't already add a secondary objective, forcing the killer to adapt unfun strategy.
For the killer, it won't be a big deal, cause if you keep playing Killer at high rank, you know its gonna happen 80% of your game but you learn to deal with it. So when is the devs will take action to avoid such behavior and stop forcing the killer to play a way most of them don't want ?
Honestly, in EU red ranks, there are ton and ton of survivors genrushing, using keys and sfw'ing, it's been a plague for years now and they continue to do so. Why ? Because there is no punishment, they are rewarded for it. Devs letting this unbalance between low and high rank survivors create this kind of gameplay.
I'm pissed that developpers didn't adress this issue.
🤙
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This game is a 2 sided story.. what you want is for survivors to have MORE advantages..
Let me tell you the difference about the red rank and a lower rank killer that camp or tunnel...
The red rank killer wins (decides when it makes sense to tunnel/camp and when it does not)..
Survivors have it to easy already if they want to escape.. I you want to make points there's where it gets more complicated..
Play for fun, do what you will and stop expecting for others to play under your rules..
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- 1st thing, how old are you ?
- 2nd the only argument you have is to point another problem that has nothing to do with the initial subject of the thread ? I mean, you know that the post you have just writen sounds like this : "the car doesn't work !" "yes but the window on the 3rd floor can't be opened"
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I actually am a 50/50 player. See, my profile picture is Steve, since I am a Steve main :)
You cannot EVER get 5 gens done in 220 seconds, unless you have some serious toolboxes and Prove Thyself and even then, I doubt it.
If you are SoloQ, it isn't hard to see that the Killer is hard camping. If you see the Killer staring down a hooked Survivor, go do a gen, please.
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You are right..
Camping is only viable if survivors make it viable..
If you see the killer camping go and fix gens..
No need to help the hooked survivor right away..
But if you go for the save while the killer is there or near by.. then what do you expect it will happen?
The worst is that you end up complaining to the killer for being camping when you actually made is strategy work..
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So you agree the killer is able to camp this guy till death and that the 5 gens won't be done during this time.
So when is this strategy not viable ?
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When the Killer will de-rank since he only got one (maybe two) hooks in the entire match.
If you actually do gens, the Killer WILL de-pip. That means you will not have to play with them anymore, as they will be out of your skill bracket.
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Winning or losing will prove you viable or not..
So at the end you can either say "GG" or "EZ"
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You guys all speak as if i didn't know that. But it's a team of 4 survivors, and most won't gen rush, even in red ranks.
ATM, red ranks survivors are terrible, they don't know how to play, they don't know the timings, they don't know how to flashlight/pallet saves, they fail skill checks too often and they unhook you in front of the killer without BT.
Play one month exclusively soloQ/duoQ and enjoy the games you will get...
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...I only play Solo. On the rare occasion I do play Duo, it's usually with another Rank 1 Survivor.
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Where can I find those Red Rank survivors, lol? All the groups I've been going against lately are blowing through gens so fast, I barely have time to get my bearings. My last match was against a 3-person SWF with an OOO that powered through 4 gens in under 4 minutes, despite my getting multiple hooks in that time (and they had no toolboxes or PT either). I'd gladly take the Red Ranks you're talking about over those types. (Though that SWF left the poor solo player die on one hook at the end of the game after I had Devour reach three stacks, making no attempt at all to rescue, even though I was nowhere near the hook, one of them had Kindred to know that, and one had DS to possibly protect themselves -- so that's the unfortunate life of a solo player in a nutshell, I imagine).
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You talk about one specific game and look, they didn't care about the 4th that wasn't playing with them... He/She sure had a hell of a trial.
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So you clearly know that most survivors won't gen rush when one is camped...
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So read again what I wrote...You don't even realize that people playing like you describe is just the consequence of the unbalance of the game as it is.
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For how long have you played the game lol ?
The game has never been balanced. Survivors were way too OP at realease and this till the clown chapter. Then it was better but killers continuously cried over and over again till today and survivors got nerfs everywhere to the point survivors with less than 500h can't play properly anymore lol.
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Oh and btw, you made a mistake in your post, gen rushing is fair at the start of the trial. If the killer has a good map control he will end up having a smaller area to cover end game and gen rushing won't be possible anymore.
So the killer has an impact on the genrush. Only noobs will vry about it, all competent killers know clearly how to end up in a 3 gens situation.
A survivor that is camped till death have no issue and no solution.
But seeing your post, i know you never came here to give good points, you came here to write something that has nothing to do with the subject of this thread and moreover you clearly don't know the game enough to talk about balance.
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Was that replying to me?
Once survivors know someone is being camped, they absolutely will rush the gens if they're playing smart. That's how you escape. I play survivor as part of a 2, occasionally a 3 person SWF. If we know someone is being camped, we do gens. Matches we do that are usually 3-person escapes. When people rush the hook against a camper (especially without BT), that's when everyone usually dies.
When I play survivor and get camped, it sucks, but I do my time on the hook to help everyone get out. I would love to see Kindred base kit to help solo players in that regard, as they're the ones who need that info the most.
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It seems like the OP's biggest issue, after reading through all this, is with their teammates. So I ask, why punish the killer for the selfishness and bad planning of your team?
Yes, a survivor dcing/suiciding on first hook is selfish, it harms their team because that person doesn't want to play anymore.
Camping as a killer isn't really selfish, just stupid, it's a 1 man team. He's not there to make sure every survivor has a good time, he's there to stop gens and hook survivors. If he loses enough matches he'll learn to play smarter.
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This. When someone suicides on the hook I don't go easy. I play even harder because I want the remaining 3 to be upset. Then in the end game chat they all shout "Why you try hard?" and I tell them "Report your teammate that gave up. It's not my fault he quit on you"
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They should probably address it in the survivor base kit, or at least add some perks. DS is a fart in the hurricane and Borrowed Time is one extra hit, if they don't tunnel the rescuer anyways.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but there is a feature from a roblox DBD ripoff that may address this issue. Preferably as part of the base kit, they could have it so that the hook speed is significantly decreased while the killer is in close proximity. The intent of the devs was to make it so that camping robs the killer of pressure, but what usually happens is that one survivor is camped to death for two minutes, max efficiency survivors will churn through 3 gens (80 seconds each) and then they can team up to tackle the next gen, at which point the killer has 1.5 gens' worth of time to catch and camp another survivor, after which only 2 survivors escape. By slowing down hook progress by proximity (it would scale, so facecamping would reduce it to a crawl, proximity camping would extend it by a minute or two), it would carry out this intention of punishing their lack of pressure.
I would also be a fan of making it so that at a certain distance, the hook progress just stops, but that's boring and has potential for holding the game hostage.
Speaking of holding the game hostage, nothing is stopping a Bubba from waiting out the entire match with one hooked survivor, until endgame collapse happens and eventually shuts the whole operation down. That, however, would probably best be addressed by a perk that protects the rescuer, as well as the rescued survivor. You can hook dive with borrowed time, but then you're going to be hooked, getting the killer a completely undeserved kill. Perhaps a perk that lets the rescuer absorb a hit and protects them from grabs when the killer is nearby.
As for tunneling, that would probably be addressed by a perk (not DS). I won't speak to its specific design, but it should 1) not require you to be hooked, just to be tunneled. 2) proc multiple times, each time more debilitating than before. Once DS is out of the way, you bet that killers are going to continue tunneling you into the ground. 3) have minor functionality outside of anti-tunnel capacities. Tunneling is rare, but it's so incredibly unfun that you'd be obligated to run said perk. Might as well have it give you at least a minimal buff when you're not being tunneled.
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There are less campers and tunnelers in EU red ranks than any other region
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Im not sure about that, i played 10 games now in a row on EU servers soloq and 9 killers legit proxy/facecamp and tunneled the first hooked survivor (me included) to death. As killer against 3 survivors the game becomes more ez, legit strategy... I should play civilization and never come back to this absolutely perfect balanced game with zero killer exploits.
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Working toward your objective using all means available to you within the game is NOT selfish - it's playing the game
It's the whole reason you bought the game.
The purpose of a game that is adversarial such as this one, is to have the opportunity to play against an opponant who thinks like a human does and not a bot - and thus you can expect a greater challenge.
People who ragequit because they are actually getting challenged by somebody using all their tools effectively have no right to be playing adversarial games - they need to go find their niche elsewhere. I'm not saying that to be mean,edgy, or pissy.... it's a simple fact.
Funny thing is, you use the whole "there won't be survivors playing" as a threat. It's an empty threat to me. I'll take a smaller pool of opponents if me means the people I'm facing understand what they're getting into and don't punk out like bitches when they a little challenge. In fact, I'll be happy to join them as a survivor myself if it means I can count of them to not give up just because they actually have to put out a tiny bit of effort.
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