Can we give BT the DS treatment?
Only half the problem with abusing "aNtI tUnNeL" perks was solved with the DS nerf. People are still doing the same stuff they were doing before with BT still intact.
BT needs deactivation conditions as well. If you're taking a protection hit, you're not being tunneled. If you're working on a gen, you're not being tunneled. If you're picking someone up off the ground, you're not being tunneled. But BT let's survivors get away with all of this.
The protection hit is the most annoying thing because that's what BT used to do: give BT to the unhooked person AND the rescuer. Turns out even after the nerf from way back when, it's still being used that way: protecting unsafe unhookers. No risk, all reward.
You don't even have to be camping or tunneling for it to activate. If a survivor gets unhooked within 32 meters of you, they get Mettle of Man for free. For those who say to slug people you think have DS, we don't even get to that step half the time because BT blocks it.
I know, I know. "Killers will never be satisfied." "The devs pander to killers." "The game is fine." But that's what people said when infinites were in the game, too.
Comments
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I would love to see giving BT a range requirement instead of a terror radius (Maybe something like 32m) and in exchange let survivors under the effects of BT lose collision so they can't just body block you to take a hit.
That would be the best way to change it
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BT needs a buff. Remove the TR requirement.
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it literally last a few seconds. just don’t tunnel off hook or if they body block then hit them and leave, the survivor will have to mend which can chew up even more time. if anything bt needs a buff (removing the tr requirement)
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It's almost guaranteed to be a protection hit if the killer injured the unhooker or anyone in the vicinities. that would render the perk useless.
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This came out of nowhere. It's fine. If they're baiting you to hit them, just wait out the BT timer?
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For Freddy, I can agree. But other than that, it doesn't need a buff.
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Camping and tunneling haven't been nerfed - so, no.
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Wraith and piggy just 2foot behind the hook with zero TR waiting to down you again?
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If you've got a problem with BT, likely you're just not a very good killer (not meant to insult, just pointing it out). It isn't broken or in need of fixing.
My advice is to watch great killer mains and see how they handle it. Hexy/Otz are both insanely good, and they track everything a survivor does in their matches. Otz goes on 50 win streaks and Hexy does the same (he held at least a 2 month win streak where no team could beat him) (he lost it just recently). Check em out and see how they adapt/play around these perks.
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BT lasts for 15 seconds and if they take the extra hit, they have to mend for 12 seconds.
If you are so worried about accidentally hitting the unhooked survivor at a hook, just don't immediately swing so you can make sure you are hitting the rescuer.
Also Freddy basically hard counters BT right now, so just play him if this is such an issue.
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So your solution is to leave the perk as it is?
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I agree it’s annoying. Its not the idea of the perk I have an issue with, its the survivors that just run up and farm people off the hook without a care in the world 2 seconds after you hook them.
I feel BT is overpowered but no BT survivors are underpowered ya know?
Its all survivors can use against campers, and yet it allows people that take advantage of it to make braindead saves without any thought or strategy.
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It would no longer help against camping killers though, which is it's main appeal. I mean it would work better against a camping freddy or such sure, but not against other killers.
You take a hit, person with BT can no longer take a hit, you go down, they hook you.
Cycle repeats until people start dying basically.
If person who was unhooked comes back they are hurt, if they heal and have DS then MAYBE, but otherwise someone is still going to die to the camp no matter what.
The bodyblock is basically the only thing that lets people get someone out at the end of the game with BT.
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I'd personally give it two conditions. The first would be a time period before activation. The survivor needs to be swinging for at least ten seconds before it can be used. I get annoyed when I'm hook dived the moment I throw somebody up. Let me at least leave the area before you attempt it.
The second would be to remove collision for the duration. That way they can't body block. Goes hand in hand with the first condition. Tired of the hook bombing, just for the rescued to body block when I'm trying to go for the rescuer.
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But you see how unhooks look right now, right? The survivors are practically inside each other.
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I believe they have. DS and BT are anti-tunnel, and also good against non-tunneling killers. And camping, all I can think of is Leatherface and Doc's shock spam, which are extremes that need addressing. Every other killer will lose the camp/tunnel game to perks and survivor favored unhook latency.
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That and insidious, yes.
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So that they can go through healthy teammates to the exit gate in egc? Not a chance.
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I do not see an issue. BT is strong but lasts 16 seconds instead of the 60 from DS that you're comparing to. BT is not meant to be anti-tunnel, it's meant to be altruistic.
If I don't want to risk being tunneled I equip DS. If I want to save someone else, I equip BT. They serve different purposes.
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No. Needs a buff if anything.
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If the killer is camping (like directly in front of the survivor) then the killer will down the rescuer before the unhooked survivor with BT could tank a hit anyway.
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Don't camp the hook and BT doesn't matter.
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It's not that simple, just like with "Don't tunnel and you'll never get hit by DS." which is false.
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The only change I think is needed is that it should automatically deactivate within a certain range of the exit. Ive Had so many free escapes on survivors because of BT both due to needing to hit unhooked twice and the other one has bt active on them:/ otherwise I'm fine with it as is
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Why does it need a buff?
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is it free if they used their perk effectively? If its endgame and you have someone on the hook how are they getting unhooked without straight up trading with the person unhooked? One hit on approach and one hit after the unhook. If gates are powered you really have no other objective and if youre going after the unhooked person - ignoring the rest of the team (specifically the now injured unhooker) then the L is squarely on you...
Edit: Also DS is a thing. So if you werent robbed of the tunnel kill by BT you'd likely get hit by the DS. Its a lose-lose. Just dont tunnel I guess?
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Because the TR requirement is stupid. BT is supposed to give survivors a chance against campers. BT is supposed to help free a hooked survivor and at the very least allow someone to trade places on the hook with them. Freddy, for example, ignores BT as if youre asleep he doesnt have a terror radius. He can hit a healthy survivor and put them to sleep so the unhooked person doesnt get BT. Wraith, Pig, T1 Myers, insidious, etc all counter BT as they negate the TR aspect. It should just be a radius and that would be enough.
It definitely doesnt need another nerf. Its only 15 seconds at Tier 3 and can easily be waited out if you need to tunnel that badly.
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How are you going to get the game to tell it was the survivor trying to take a protection hit? I don't think that's possible.
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I tend to favor Killer arguments on these forums and I'll be the first to tell you that Borrowed Time is fine as it is.
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Regardless, it is still an incredibly powerful perk.
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I'd disagree. BT is pretty easily counterable by not going for the recently unhooked survivor, which is a pretty rude move anyhow. Plus, if you're already in a chase, instead of leaving to tunnel a survivor off of the hook, you're already preoccupied.
Yes, it's annoying that survivors can bodyblock hits with BT, but then it's out of the way and you can smack them again. Bodyblocking means that they aren't making distance, and if you have a quick down killer, or STBFL, they're screwed.
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni this is great
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This sounds like a good change.
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Killer main here.
BT is a really powerful perk, but it's not overpowered. In fact, it's pretty balanced. It's in a perfect state at the moment, you're just overexaggerating. If you don't like BT then you should try running Trail of Torment, Tinkerer, STBFL (this perk actually benefits from BT), or even Dark Devotion.
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powerful? yes. unbalanced? not at all.
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BT is fine.
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Okay now THAT'S a pretty sweet idea!
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Here, I think this idea is fair.
Borrowed Time now only activates when the Killer is within X meters of the hook for X seconds.
This stops BT from being used to farm people unsafely but also actually punishes campers who may not have a TR.
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i don't see why you complain. Hit the BT so they have to mend and are not back on a gen right away.
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BT is fine, teh actual BT it is, they make so obvious when they are gonna take the hit, just ignore and go for the other survivors, is only a problem when you hooked a survivor close to an opened exit gates, otherwise...
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BT should do this: After you rescue a survivor from a hook, if they take damage within the next 15 seconds, you take the damage instead
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BT should just make survivors lose collision. They could even buff it so that it doesn't have an activation requirement, you just get it no matter what.
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Removing the terror radius and having a range is good change of they do that but I'm sorry they will make the range 32 metre which is a bad idea as they can hookbomb any time and won't be punish for it. The best range would be 16 or 12 metre as a camping killer would be in those range and the people who hookbomb would be punished for a reckless action
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Downing someone after u hook is not a tunnel. And I do hit the person on approach but it typically ends with either 1. The hit detection hits the hooked person even though the unhooker is between us. And 2. They get the haste boost and run away after the unhook. Im saying it's a free unhook because you can't do anything about it because the perk allows no effort to escape in those situations. not literally free. Just because a perk allows something doesn't mean it shouldn't change either otherwise nothing would change In the game.
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1. Hit them before they begin unhooking/get close.
2. If they're at the hook they either take a hit or get grabbed.
I'm all for changes but the perk needs to serve a function also. BT needs to give survivors a chance to free a camped survivor. If you have changes that allow that I'd love to hear but changes that make the perk pointless is unnecessary and unhealthy.
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This.
OP I don't think you're seeing this from a survivor perspective. The reason the perk is so popular is because it is so versatile and is the only reliable camping into tunnelling counter. It's not clear cut only used for protection hits. You still get value from making the survivor mend too. Don't forget that.
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I'm saying the perk is largely fine but should deactivate within range of the exit (maybe even within the exit itself). This change would not make the perk worthless. I've had a lot of games where I down a survivor and the only hook available is the one by the gate where the others the survivor will wiggle away.
Here is a specific example. I hook a survivor near the exit gate with 3 survivors standing in near the exit. I try to push them out but then at least one will get away and try to unhook. I hit a survivor who gets close and they zoom away while my hit reloads another survivor unhooks and there isn't anything that can be done. If I hit a survivor actually grabbing they run away as well with haste and can't catch them.
Overall the perk is fine and doesn't need changes but situations by the exits a killer against 3 survivors may as well let the survivor go since they will either hit a survivor who gets away anyways or hit the unhooker and they zoom away or hit the bt survivor and it essentially does nothing
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no, i think it needs to be buffed to a range requirement instead of TR
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I could be into this. I honestly didn't realize it was tr based until this post honestly
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I know it is unbalanced, but what are we going to do about it since survivors are already losing another unfair meta perk? I am pretty sure that the many survivor players would not allow that and killers would camp a lot more.
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