The Infinite Loop
I really appreciate the Devs addressing some of the balance issues. They have fixed BT, pallet vacuum, and are creating some taller obstacles to help killers with the mind games. Also, they are working on making DS more reasonable.
I have noticed, however, that with lithe and sprint burst, survivors are able to find many "infinite loop" situations. A survivor can loop an area using vaults, thereby extending the distance they can go, and indefinitely run the same loop again and again because of the boost lithe and/or sprint burst provide. Just when the killer is reaching them the SB is ready again or the lithe has been reset and the survivor gets the distance needed to keep going. It's ridiculous.
It seems lengthening the time between activation of lithe and sprint burst would eliminate this, for I see this infinite looping as an exploit of game mechanics. A survivor should not be able to run from the killer, with the killer following the same path as the survivor and without deviation, and yet never be caught. No mind games, no pallets, just know the map and use lithe or SB.
Also, at the higher ranks the gens are done so quickly. Many aspects of the game, many strategies and perks and add ons, become useless because the match simply doesn't last long enough for them to be relevant. It's as if the game was designed on the presumption of a certain length of time to optimally complete gens, and yet experienced survivors have jumped to 30% better times than expected. At the higher ranks the matches seem pathetically short, even with hex ruin, so that many possibilities that would make the game interesting never have a chance to materialize. This is unfortunate, as it makes the game more redundant and grindy than it needs to be.
Comments
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Exhaustion is 40 seconds, and much longer if you run. If they have an entire 2 and a half, to 3 minutes on the same loop, you need to change your style, you’re doing something that’s not as optimal, I don’t know what.... actually rancid abattoir MIGHT be able to pull it off, maybe. Please provide more detail, I’d be happy to discuss.
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It happens only on few maps in certain locations (like wretched shop main building) . Just don't chase survivors there especially if you are playing huntress/wraith/freddy/pig .
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@Jack11803 said:
@SlipperyFunTimeExhaustion is 40 seconds, and much longer if you run. If they have an entire 2 and a half, to 3 minutes on the same loop, you need to change your style, you’re doing something that’s not as optimal, I don’t know what.... actually rancid abattoir MIGHT be able to pull it off, maybe. Please provide more detail, I’d be happy to discuss.
I've ran up to easy 5 minute chases without looping. (Mind games...) It's seriously possible to out run the killer. I didn't even have Lithe or SB, I had Dead hard. If you're unable to catch the survivor though, that's on you. We have to fall a bit on looping for mind games because we simply have NO OTHER WAYS OF JUKING.
Though the people that just run around one pallet after another are annoying and have no skill other than running around in a circle for minutes straight. I'd like that tampered with and offered more efficient ways to juke than a ######### LoS blocker from standing at a ######### pallet............
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There are no infinites if you know how to counter/outplay them. As for looping in general, survivors can't do anything else there is no other way to escape. As for fast gens, THAT IS THE SURVIVORS OBJECTIVE they will obviously want to do it fast, just as killers can get all 4 survivors in a minute or two.1
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@sumurtugu said:
There are no infinites if you know how to counter/outplay them. As for looping in general, survivors can't do anything else there is no other way to escape. As for fast gens, THAT IS THE SURVIVORS OBJECTIVE they will obviously want to do it fast, just as killers can get all 4 survivors in a minute or two.I used to have the same opinion as well about infinite until recently. Faced ONE ridiculously skilled survivor with top notch mind game and map knowledge who kinda looped me around the frigging killer shack even without god pallet for a few minutes. I didn't break the chase since I already sacrificed 2 others and so I just wanted to go along with it and see how it ends. Finally, I had to break the chase and I went against the other survivor. I got all of them in the end but thing is infinite do exist if the survivor has basically memorized the vault timings, killer movement speed and etc. This was in iron works i guess and had another similar episode in that corner house from haddon field where you have that generator in the cellar and two exit stairs right next to each other. Now before saying it was just a bad play from me (maybe it was), remember I have only faced this twice in my ~320 hrs and I'm pretty decent with mind games and being killer in general. In these two cases, I could do nothing but react to what they were doing rather than me affecting their game.
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@sumurtugu said:
There are no infinites if you know how to counter/outplay them. As for looping in general, survivors can't do anything else there is no other way to escape. As for fast gens, THAT IS THE SURVIVORS OBJECTIVE they will obviously want to do it fast, just as killers can get all 4 survivors in a minute or two.With bad RNG there are still infinites in the true infinite sense. I had it happen once to me on haddonfield.
But even if we are talkign about non-infinites, a SINGLE loopspot that wastes enough time for 3 gens to be done should NOT be in the game3 -
Where are you seeing these infinites?
I haven't seen a true one since bloodlust + window blockers.
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I have seen absurdly strong juking spots, but no infinites for a while.
At some point you just catch up with bloodlust and manage to hit or force the survivor to use a pallet before conveniently going back to the same vault, oftenly, which is painful but not infinite.These kind of spots are potentially too strong (not all of them tho, clearly), but I don't see many infinites. Possibly a few windows in lerys, or some very rare occurence on haddonfield I guess ?
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Yea, generators are being done too quickly.
I was playing a Myers game. I had hex ruin up, they had 4 generators done before I could even get out of evil 1. I still killed two of them and lost a pip for it.
Survivors used to have many more advantages then they do now, but the game is much different. Almost half my games at higher ranks as succuss, you can see allies baltantly using hacks. They game is structured in such a terrible way.0 -
You guys are arguing semantics. OP is correct. Too many time wasting spots exist in this game. Play killer and you'll see.
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The problem is that insanely long Loop spots exist in plethora across all maps. Any spots that make it easy to Loop a Killer for more than 30 seconds needs to be limited to 1 maybe 2 per map. The game is not balanced for Loop spots like that dotted all over he place. Not to mention easy access to such spots via Sprint Burst.-1
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@Markness said:
You guys are arguing semantics. OP is correct. Too many time wasting spots exist in this game. Play killer and you'll see.Erroneously calling them infinite doesn't lend much credence to his complaint...
Another run of the mill complaint about chase perks. Not even about pallet looping specifically. Just talking about how Lithe and SB increase chase time... and somehow make loops infinite despite significant CDs...?
The post doesn't make any sense at all because the entire complaint is hinged on the idea that Exhaustion perks make pallet loops infinite and somehow erase mind gaming.. which they don't.
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@Runiver said:
I have seen absurdly strong juking spots, but no infinites for a while.
At some point you just catch up with bloodlust and manage to hit or force the survivor to use a pallet before conveniently going back to the same vault, oftenly, which is painful but not infinite.These kind of spots are potentially too strong (not all of them tho, clearly), but I don't see many infinites. Possibly a few windows in lerys, or some very rare occurence on haddonfield I guess ?
I remember watching a video of a survivor on haddonfield that got really good window spawns on the myers house and it became an infinite. Ran the killer for the whole game using it and bloodlust did nothing to help since they constantly broke LOS long enough for the killer to lose it.
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@SadonicShadow said:
@Runiver said:
I have seen absurdly strong juking spots, but no infinites for a while.
At some point you just catch up with bloodlust and manage to hit or force the survivor to use a pallet before conveniently going back to the same vault, oftenly, which is painful but not infinite.These kind of spots are potentially too strong (not all of them tho, clearly), but I don't see many infinites. Possibly a few windows in lerys, or some very rare occurence on haddonfield I guess ?
I remember watching a video of a survivor on haddonfield that got really good window spawns on the myers house and it became an infinite. Ran the killer for the whole game using it and bloodlust did nothing to help since they constantly broke LOS long enough for the killer to lose it.
Yeah, same thing over here @SadonicShadow I think I saw something similar on that map on another video.
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Infinite loops are quite less dramatic than when the first launched, when Killers had I think twice slower vaulting speed than they did now, and the Entity did not block out windows.
With that being said, however, I do definitely agree that there are some maps where long loops can spawn. They are slightly rare as they rely on the exact right window openings to spawn, but are very overpowered at rank 1 vs survivors who know how to abuse those variations.
Basically, any loop area with 1 window cannot be considered infinite, as the Entity will block that one window. However, that 1 window can still prove very frustrating, and requires the absolute best mind games in this game to catch the survivor at without just waiting for the Entity to do it for you.
The problem gets even worse when you get into what I call the "monuments" of the map - pretty self explanatory. The monument for Red Forest is the large house, the monument for Coal Tower is the "Coal Tower," basically the large building with stairs going up to the generator; you get the point. In those areas it is troublesome because multiple windows can spawn, or in the case of maps like Coal Tower or Groaning Storehouse, the building is simply so large with the addition of a pallet directly in the way that the Killer is forced to take the long way around twice.
In these monument area, if a survivor has Vigil and any exhaustion perk, including even balanced landing, then they can most definitely turn the monuments into infinites. I have had it happen to me before way too many times. This does become harder with Sprint Burst as you exhaustion perk because it takes more planning and understanding the mechanics of exhaustion to time it right so you don't use your perk as you vault, but it certainly is still possible.
Obviously, the smarter of you fellow Killers and the dumber of you survivors will be saying "just go around and make them run into you." This is absolutely possible - at rank 10 and lower. Even rank 10 is a stretch. At the higher ranks(5 to 1), the survivors are simply so used to this being used that they expect it, and they expect fake outs, and they expect walking backwards to hide the red stain and basically all the simple and even most advanced mindgames.
Now, reading this(and even for me typing this) it is very easy to just think up some complex, in depth multi stage mind game where you absolutely ######### amaze them at what you can pull off. But the fact is, that when we Killers are in the heat of the moment, it is incredibly more difficult to think of this stuff. I think it is just a combination of a bunch of things that causes this - Being first person so our mind is absolutely focused on just calling this survivor in front of us as many profanities as think of for abusing these mechanics, the fact that in the heat of the moment we cannot focus all our attention on just a mind game or else we will lose track of even the most basic movements, us having loud blaring chase music in our ears, and a whole lot of other tiny factors that add up fast. But regardless of what causes it, the point still stands - it is simply way harder to think of a complex mindgame we can pull off to catch this survivor in the heat of the moment rather than focusing every fiber of our being on that one task.tl;dr
Infinites certainly have a possibility to exist at the "monuments" of most maps in this game, and at rank 1 it is simply very hard to think of a good mingame to catch the survivor. Although we can think of a great mind game right now when we can focus everything we have just on a mindgame, it is way harder to think of that while being in a match and chasing that survivor.1 -
@SadonicShadow said:
@Runiver said:
I have seen absurdly strong juking spots, but no infinites for a while.
At some point you just catch up with bloodlust and manage to hit or force the survivor to use a pallet before conveniently going back to the same vault, oftenly, which is painful but not infinite.These kind of spots are potentially too strong (not all of them tho, clearly), but I don't see many infinites. Possibly a few windows in lerys, or some very rare occurence on haddonfield I guess ?
I remember watching a video of a survivor on haddonfield that got really good window spawns on the myers house and it became an infinite. Ran the killer for the whole game using it and bloodlust did nothing to help since they constantly broke LOS long enough for the killer to lose it.
Was it this one ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwN_KaQB57E&feature=youtu.beBecause even tho that kind of spawn is bullshit, the killer is kinda playing it wrong too.
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@Runiver said:
@SadonicShadow said:
@Runiver said:
I have seen absurdly strong juking spots, but no infinites for a while.
At some point you just catch up with bloodlust and manage to hit or force the survivor to use a pallet before conveniently going back to the same vault, oftenly, which is painful but not infinite.These kind of spots are potentially too strong (not all of them tho, clearly), but I don't see many infinites. Possibly a few windows in lerys, or some very rare occurence on haddonfield I guess ?
I remember watching a video of a survivor on haddonfield that got really good window spawns on the myers house and it became an infinite. Ran the killer for the whole game using it and bloodlust did nothing to help since they constantly broke LOS long enough for the killer to lose it.
Was it this one ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwN_KaQB57E&feature=youtu.beBecause even tho that kind of spawn is bullshit, the killer is kinda playing it wrong too.
Yup thats the one. I agree the killer made some mistakes but this loop was disgusting non the less.
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@SadonicShadow said:
@Runiver said:
@SadonicShadow said:
@Runiver said:
I have seen absurdly strong juking spots, but no infinites for a while.
At some point you just catch up with bloodlust and manage to hit or force the survivor to use a pallet before conveniently going back to the same vault, oftenly, which is painful but not infinite.These kind of spots are potentially too strong (not all of them tho, clearly), but I don't see many infinites. Possibly a few windows in lerys, or some very rare occurence on haddonfield I guess ?
I remember watching a video of a survivor on haddonfield that got really good window spawns on the myers house and it became an infinite. Ran the killer for the whole game using it and bloodlust did nothing to help since they constantly broke LOS long enough for the killer to lose it.
Was it this one ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwN_KaQB57E&feature=youtu.beBecause even tho that kind of spawn is bullshit, the killer is kinda playing it wrong too.
Yup thats the one. I agree the killer made some mistakes but this loop was disgusting non the less.
As far as I know, devs fixed these kind of spawn in early 2018 with the vault spawning fix (that was supposed to fix Lery's, too, but didn't fix every occurence yet, sadly)
Tho, maybe similar spawns can happen still. I actually hate Haddonfield tbh, but at least they greatly improved it. Used to have 2 pallets in basement, vaults at every roofs instead of doorways, and different windows and barrier setups that could prove very annoying.
Still my least favorite map as killer.0 -
@Runiver said:
@SadonicShadow said:
@Runiver said:
@SadonicShadow said:
@Runiver said:
I have seen absurdly strong juking spots, but no infinites for a while.
At some point you just catch up with bloodlust and manage to hit or force the survivor to use a pallet before conveniently going back to the same vault, oftenly, which is painful but not infinite.These kind of spots are potentially too strong (not all of them tho, clearly), but I don't see many infinites. Possibly a few windows in lerys, or some very rare occurence on haddonfield I guess ?
I remember watching a video of a survivor on haddonfield that got really good window spawns on the myers house and it became an infinite. Ran the killer for the whole game using it and bloodlust did nothing to help since they constantly broke LOS long enough for the killer to lose it.
Was it this one ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwN_KaQB57E&feature=youtu.beBecause even tho that kind of spawn is bullshit, the killer is kinda playing it wrong too.
Yup thats the one. I agree the killer made some mistakes but this loop was disgusting non the less.
As far as I know, devs fixed these kind of spawn in early 2018 with the vault spawning fix (that was supposed to fix Lery's, too, but didn't fix every occurence yet, sadly)
Tho, maybe similar spawns can happen still. I actually hate Haddonfield tbh, but at least they greatly improved it. Used to have 2 pallets in basement, vaults at every roofs instead of doorways, and different windows and barrier setups that could prove very annoying.
Still my least favorite map as killer.I love and hate Haddonfield. It has some of the cruelest RNG on both sides. Sometimes the fences spawn so long and with no openings that for survivors it can be a death sentence against a billy or trapper but likewise i have been screwed so hard by the fences that i couldent reach a hook because they were a mile long. Haddonfield is better than it used to be but damn those fences.
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@ASpazNamedSteve said:
Where are you seeing these infinites?I haven't seen a true one since bloodlust + window blockers.
On haddonfield in the largest house I had a game where you were able to switch windows such that the black entity effect never triggered. Only happened once though
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@Runiver said:
I have seen absurdly strong juking spots, but no infinites for a while.
At some point you just catch up with bloodlust and manage to hit or force the survivor to use a pallet before conveniently going back to the same vault, oftenly, which is painful but not infinite.These kind of spots are potentially too strong (not all of them tho, clearly), but I don't see many infinites. Possibly a few windows in lerys, or some very rare occurence on haddonfield I guess ?
Rancid Abattoir side window would like to have a word with you lmao
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If you chase a survivor for 3 gens it's not their faultMaster said:@sumurtugu said:
There are no infinites if you know how to counter/outplay them. As for looping in general, survivors can't do anything else there is no other way to escape. As for fast gens, THAT IS THE SURVIVORS OBJECTIVE they will obviously want to do it fast, just as killers can get all 4 survivors in a minute or two.With bad RNG there are still infinites in the true infinite sense. I had it happen once to me on haddonfield.
But even if we are talkign about non-infinites, a SINGLE loopspot that wastes enough time for 3 gens to be done should NOT be in the game1 -
Some old "infintes" are still "long loops" that waste to much time.
Red Barn on coldwind, Loopings storehouse, Iron works hole in the wall... with bad luck, you have a nearby jungle gym or some pallets and one survivor can loop the killer for 4-5 gens (if his mates are doing their job).0 -
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Only one potential true infinite I'm aware can be fixed by just switching directions (denies the survivor a fast vault on the window in the loop). Other than that, there are just long loops, no actual infinite.
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@sumurtugu said:
Master said:@sumurtugu said:
There are no infinites if you know how to counter/outplay them. As for looping in general, survivors can't do anything else there is no other way to escape. As for fast gens, THAT IS THE SURVIVORS OBJECTIVE they will obviously want to do it fast, just as killers can get all 4 survivors in a minute or two.
With bad RNG there are still infinites in the true infinite sense. I had it happen once to me on haddonfield.
But even if we are talkign about non-infinites, a SINGLE loopspot that wastes enough time for 3 gens to be done should NOT be in the game
If you chase a survivor for 3 gens it's not their fault
Yeah yeah I know, just chase another guy, nice advice
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