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Survivor - Shift+W Nerf when?
Comments
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Honestly, it was expected that there will be a point from there on you cannot take Killer Mains serious anymore.
This is when they complain about Survivors running. People who see this as an actual problem that needs changes and even do videos about it should be ignored. And it should be clear that no fruitful discussion is possible with their opinion.
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Wraith, hopefully. Billy, no, I was literally playing him last night, the cooldown on ending your chainsaw gives them so much distance.
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Let people cry and whinge about their inability to counter running in a straight line for a bit longer.
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My thing idk about you is just for the killers who don't have the mobility to catch up after a smack and maps that give killers no option to cut off like midwich or haddonfield (realize how i don't say its survivors fault?).If say pig,ghostface,michael or old wraith chase you and catch up say after 20 seconds and smack you giving you a speed boost and you just run straight then it takes another 20-30 seconds. It's very effective as after you hook you spent 50 seconds on one chase. And thats just taking loops out of the entire equation. Obviously i think people are overeacting a bit in all other cases. Its no big surprise non map pressure killers suffer a lot in this game. Because taking myers for example he has no map pressure,No slowdown,No anti loop,No strategic plan unlike trapper or hag,Doesn't obviously have a range attack.And even hit and run doesnt work to well on myers as you gotta get out of tier 1 first making him the only killer who starts even WEAKER then everyone else at default. Not really a problem with survivors just powercreep with how the game now is. I am a 50/50 so i do try to incoporate both sides when i say stuff. Holding w is personally just the most boring thing to me as survivor as the whole fun is looping pallets and mindgaming at windows and ect. Just holding w for a minute until i go down is just boring EFFECTIVE but boring. Kinda like how tunneling a survivor for early game pressure is boring to me as killer, so i refuse to do it as i know how it would feel to have it done to me.
Post edited by supersonic853 on0 -
It literally has no interaction or counterplay which is kinda the issue.
It is also very map dependent. Its less a complaint that 'survivors run away wah' and stuff like 'this map has too much open space for the survivor to go straight away from me, meaning it takes about half a gen before we can even start interacting.'
Loops if your bad as a killer are annoying, but for good killers this is where you actually can earn quick downs. The reason some maps work and others are bad is based on if there are places that force the survivor to turn and not just utilize the fact you only gain .6 meters distance on them a second. That .6 is a lot inside a loop, but its not outside of it at all, which creates this weird issue because its like... actually mathematically impossible for some killers to win on some maps with infinite linear distance, like Midwich.
Like obviously it sound stupid if you reduce it down to 'survivors are running away and that bad.'
But its actually a lot more of a subtle mathy problem about the minimum chase time a survivor can force on some maps vs how gen time works that makes chases inevitably longer than gen times even without using any looping at all, at least vs any killer without a ranged attack or superior mobility, which renders a lot of the cast useless.
This also makes it a hard problem to solve in a not stupid way too, cuz, as people rightfully point out despite the fact it isn't actually anyone's argument, you... want survivors to be able to run away and not instantly go down if the killer stumbles upon them, so they can get to a loop. And increasing gen times would suck too. Its a more tricky problem that probably requires a very nuanced solution and some map redesigns to encourage it to go back to being a cat and mouse 'try to break LOS, try to use obstacles to artifically increase the distance between you and the killer' rather than a fairly boring and nerdy 'Well if I try to do literally anything to lose this chase the killer can move at a 90 degree angle to cut me off and thus gain 1.5 meters on me per second compared to the .6 they gain normally, meaning I move an effective .9 meters faster than I otherwise would if I just hold W."
Like its good that that works for a BIIIIIT but it shouldn't get you a crushing victory in your chase if your team is all on gens. 40 seconds of chase time is considered a VERY good chase, and yet if you hold W that is literally the minimum for some killers.
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Because there's literally no situation where you would chase after a survivor in a straight line for 40 seconds.. If you do find yourself in this situation, then you need to rethink your strategy. You shouldn't be chasing a survivor that you can see from a mile away and expecting to catch up to them. And It's absolutely mind boggling that killers find a reason to complain about everything. It's like you just want survivors to be able to walk everywhere.
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Yeah I'm confused this is the 1st time I've heard of this or had seen someone have a problem with wkeying.
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They saw a video and came up with the conclusion that holding W is somehow too strong. 🤣
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If you hit a survivor, and they run straight, you literally have to chase them 40 seconds.
Or if they are at 12 meters and sprint burst. The entire point 'W meta' is a problem is because people are imagining massive distances when they think of 40 second straight line chases. The reason that seems silly is because in most scenarios the killer's relatively small speed advantage is amplified by EXTREMELY COMPLEX MATH (Ex: If your running at an angle from the killer, at their most optimal angle they are effectively moving 7 meters per-second).
Most of the killer's distance gains are from cutoffs, mindgames where you stop for a second and suddenly they gain a full 4.6 meters on you rather than just .6, or other survivor mistakes. If the survivor is literally just running away, you can't do this, and suddenly the speed difference doesn't really matter and you have to sink a bonkers amount of time into the chase.
Like lets say two survivors are doing a gen and move to 10 meters in seperate directions before you make LOS contact. It is now literally impossible for you to close out a chase with either survivor without losing that gen as long as the map is one conductive to holding W, which is kinda absurd if you really think about it. And, as a bonus, after the killer closes in you can abort into a loop to try to extend the time more. While even on good maps there are plenty of times just not taking a chase makes sense, on many right now things are so open that the killer just can't take a chase ever and win without mobility, survivors just not being on gens if not in a chase, or someone deciding to try to loop before the killer closes distance. Because this play has zero interaction and can be done flawlessly with no skill required vs a large portion of the cast, it just turns out the killer doesn't have enough time to try to win any chases and not lose the game overall, which is a major problem.
Again, not that its BAD that survivors can run away. The solution here is almost certainly NOT 'Nerf W.' This is a bigger issue with map design, and the inherent rewards for chases and gen defense for M1 killers. This is why L T walls are so much stronger than most other gyms, and why Midwich and Lampkin are such awful maps: They are very linear with extremely large obstacles that essentially combine the benefits of looping AND W meta. It is a very subtle, nerdy problem that A: I wish streamers didn't highlight because its now ALL you see in redranks, and B: Because it obviously SOUNDS really stupid and most people articulate it poorly so something that is actually game design 101 "Lets evaluate white room mathematical non-interactive matchups stuff" sounds like ridiculous 'NERF SURVIVORS SO THEY CAN'T EVEN WALK AWAY FROM ME" stuff.
The white-room super crunchy math stuff always seems silly, but ends up being really easy to cause massive problems in your games, which is why patch notes often do things like talk about fractional changes in seconds for things. Time relationships are ESPECIALLY prone to creating wacked out results, and this is a doubled over time relationship between gens and movement speed.
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Obviously we just need to break the legs of survivors as soon as they load in.
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gens are still pretty fast if you're all dedicated and still remains a balance issue imo
Hooking someone and then they unhook right as you take a step away is pretty obnixous cuz you kno they running 2nd chance perks
items are fine imo, toolboxes balance is fine, You can 75% a gen with a good toolbox and addons
Survivor Perks are really strong and that's why atleast 2 are getting an overhaul, get over it
Comms is Op to an extent admit or not, but it's part of this game.
I see it as it's very odd that even after getting whacked you can run at full speed non stop, forever....idk.
I can tell you main survivor dude, get in low ranks in killer and feel the pain
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Most of those "Counters" you listed are situational and some of them are simply not true.
Wraith - Yes good mobility, but need to hit bell again to attack. By this time you already got to a pallet.
Billy - Holding shift w doesnt necessary means running in straight line. Using some obstacles and his mobility is limited.
Myers - How does myers in T3 has increased mobility? Aside from faster vault and bigger lunge nothing has changed.
Hag - Requires setup. If survivors run in zone with no traps, you can't catch them. Most maps are large enough to have these areas.
Huntress - Depends on map, and requires good aim AND open area. Dead hard will save you 100 %
Freddy - Not every gens are in the way where survivors are running towards. And you cannot teleport to finished gens, so late game this option is limited
Pig - she has weakest stealth, moves slower than survivor. Once survivor is injured with stealth you're back to holding w chase
Clown - Slowdown bottle usually wont hit survivors at great range if they are smart. so you have your yellow bottle, but its speed boost is small, and you waste your one bottle and need to reload. People already stated his yellow bottle hurts his mobility more.
Spirit - Okay
Legion - High mobility, but can't down survivors with it, and get a huge 4 secs stun out of power. Not sure how this helps.
Plague - Requires survivors to cleanse. No cleanse, no power.
Ghostface - Stealth down requires survivor to be oblivious, and depends on the area survivor is in. And it has a huge cooldown of 30 secs.
Demo - Zoning requires survivor to be open area AND in range. That range is not great, and he's slowed down when lunge is charged.
Oni - He literally is m1 killer from the start of the game. You need to injure survivor to even have power. If survivors just hold w in first chase with you, you wont have power.
Deathslinger - Range is 20 m only, and requires very precise aim AND open area.
Blight - Okay
Twins - Okay
Trickster - Not out. Can't commend
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Yeah, exactly, no situation because you would almost always just abandon that "chase" in the first place since committing to chasing W gamer is almost always a losing strategy.
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You making calculations is not a good look on you. Even more so when you still bold it. lmao
It's incorrect by the way.
Why are you guys taking chases where you can't cut them off in the first place? Survivor movement speed and killer movement speed has been the same since release. Why is it a problem now?
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10 seconds to gain 6 metres of distance if both survivor and killer are running in the exact same velocity vector. So what?
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
Nurse = hard counter to 'Shift + W'
That is all
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Unless you know how she works. Then she's not.
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Pretty much the only juke I've seen is when they double back on you. If your on the ground level to counter that just simply blink down (or up if your on a top level). Though I have no answer for this if your on a map that has a middle level.
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I already watched that video and it is SO unrealistic
Like the amount of error that it had in that test is so much and i cant even remember all of them
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In a sterile example, this is true, but how often is this done in practice? And even the sterile example ignores the fact the Killer is faster that they can start pushing the surv to the edge of the map fairly quickly and can use obstacles to gain more distance or simply get closer to the surv before they start running in the first place.
How often do survs spot killers in time to move off a gen/hook save/etc soon enough to gain this massive distance?
How often are survs in a spot where gaining that same massive distance doesn't put them at the disadvantage of being near the edge of the map/near fairly quickly?
How often are they against Killers for whom this might even be a problem?
Sure if a Killer approaches from a bad angle, already at the edge of a map, then the survivor's choice is clear. But even if they commit to just running forward and the Killer in question can't 'easily' catch up, you've chased them FAR FAR from the gen, and maybe even spooked a couple of other survs along the way.
Seriously, it sounds to me like people are taking the absolute worst case scenerio and trying to apply it to the game as whole. There are a lot of variables that a strict 'test' or number crunching doesn't remotely begin to take into account.
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Depends again on the maps. Maps like midwich literally have gens in the middle of the hall so theyll obviously w the opposite direction. Haddonfield has a gen in the middle of the street and a gen beside a house where the survivor can again just go other direction. Coldwind map gens in middle of fields. Autohaven basically every gen. Temple of purgation i can think of like 3 since its all straightways. Its honestly pretty common. Map problem as none of these maps give cutoffs which is where the killer catches up. People already knew this problem with midwich and its dubbed "W the map" because thats all it literally is. Have a OoO on the opposite side? Never catching him unless you just run forward for like 2 minutes.
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You're mixing up people:
blaming the survivors for those things (what you are implying people are saying)
and
blaming the game for being balanced in that way (what people are actually saying)
Most the time when people make comments about how they're not even doing anything skillful, they're just holding W, they are complaining about the game being balanced in that way, not blaming the survivor. Those are very different things.
It's the same thing as "gen rush". People aren't saying survivors shouldn't be trying to do gens as fast as possible, as that's what they are supposed to be doing of course. What they are saying is that gens shouldn't be able to be done that fast in the first place.
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If you're talking about a double backing survivor I totally welcome that as a nurse main, shift w absolutely doesn't work against her or any of the other top tier killers and on top of that there's only like 2 maps it can work on even against low tier killers because the maps aren't physically big enough and the killer will be able to cut you off, there's a reason why Tru3 picked red forest and made the survivor get as far away as he did and it's because that is the biggest map in the game currently due to the fact it hasn't had a rework like most of the older maps, red forest and coldwind are the only older maps that haven't been touched as of yet.
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A lot of these maps also have LOS blockers that do not make it easy for survs to know if the Killer is coming for them or not. Midwich is about the only map that has gens with great LOS in all directions you need it. And a lot of those generators are center gens which are pretty frequently patrolled and by sheer virtue of being a center gen means you're going to hit the edge of the map sooner rather than later (which was NOT the case in the test vid. They literally started at the edge of the map from the worst possible angle of approach).
Looking at the test that was performed, it's literally the absolute worst case scenario (positioning, visibility, lack of perks, addons, etc) on what, iirc, is the largest map in the game. Didn't utilize the Killer's power at all to close distance, and assumed that he'd go all the way back to that gen. It also ignores 3 gen strat and more. Yes, in those cases hold W will extend chases and may put a Killer in a terrible spot.
And I'm not saying that it can't happen, but I doubt the prevalence of the circumstances required to make 'just hold w' be that big of an issue.
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Survivors that aren't in the 3.8% of Red Ranks, are getting 4Ked 2/3rds of the time. (I haven't seen any data on Red Rank survivors yet). There have been 3 different people, if not more, keeping track of matches and survivors don't stand a chance. There is no way that running in a straight line alone will do anything, you have Billy, Nurse, Oni, Blight, Freddy, Wraith, Huntress, Clown, Spirit, Deathslight and Twins that can all counter running in a straight line. That's more than half the killers. This argument is beyond stupid.
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Mindless double backing is a noob strategy, and therefore only works against noob Nurses (and those who are rusty or having a bad day).
I've a headache right now, but when I'm better I'll try to explain how to counter the Nurse. I'll give you a hint: it involves object hitboxes and how the Nurse blinks through stuff.
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Stand on the other side of a object because you count as a solid object denying the nurses blink? Just a guess lol.
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"I can tell you main survivor" - I main killer and I'm rank 1 in both, but nice try though. I don't tunnel, I don't face camp, I don't mori, I don't slug DS and still manage to sit at Rank 1 Killer without an issue. Difference is, instead of complaining about nerfing everything under the sun I adapt and get better.
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Ohh wish to hear my complaints then?
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I smell a survivor main / low rank killer
Plz talk trash to me
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Tried that and lost a game to self care because of it as soon as I started to go in their direction they just held w to shack and if I left them they just healed w botany lose lose was a swf with 3 and they all worked on seprate gens despite them being a decent 3 gen
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That's the fault of some content creators, who started to complain about it and like a herd of sheep people started to complain too. It's a non-problem and it's stupid thinking it is.
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Hag's pretty dirty on Midwich too. Basically the whole map is in teleport range 😍
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Rank 1 Killer & Survivor with over 3500 hours :) 70/30 Killer, but I hope you're having a lovely day.
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On the other hand, you can mathematically demonstrate that killers without some sort of catch-up mechanic are left in the dust if survivors just run away in a straight line (not even taking pallets and windows into account).
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Where did you get "4ked 2/3rds of the time"? From these flawed statistics that don't consider so many vital factors like throwed games or DCs? Really?
"3 different people, if not more, keeping track of matches and survivors don't stand a chance"
Who exactly, how many matches did they record, how much information did they gather? I'm pretty sure their statistics don't exceed a few hundreds of matches, which isn't really that much of statistics to deduce winrates or killrates.
>There is no way that running in a straight line alone will do anything, you have Billy, Nurse, Oni, Blight, Freddy, Wraith, Huntress, Clown, Spirit, Deathslight and Twins that can all counter running in a straight line. That's more than half the killers. This argument is beyond stupid.
Firstly, nobody said that running in a straight line alone is a problem. If survivor just runs in a straight line and then ends up dying I wouldn't mind. It becomes problematic when it's combined with things survivors do in chase. The guy wastes 20-30 seconds of your time by running in a straight line, then he starts using windows and pallets. All this time he's pretty much safe from you and you can't do anything unless this guy is an idiot.
Secondly, you claimed that my argument is stupid because half of killer roster has no problems with straight line gamers. However exactly because HALF of the roster CAN deal with it and the other HALF CAN'T this is a problem and my concerns are valid. There should be no such thing as "I can run in a straight line and win half of a minute before the actual chase even starts without risking anything" against half of killer roster, especially if that half is generally not the best killers in the game.
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So go leave this discussion if you lack something essential to understand how much time for such little distance it is, thanks. All your lasts posts have been direct and indirect insults and zero actual contribution.
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Could say the same about you. If you weren't so snarky, I wouldn't be doing it.
My point is the distance you're gaining in that time is adequate. If the survivor is too far to commit that time to chase in the first place, don't chase them! This new bandwagon is ridiculous.
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Those stats don't include DC's. Throwed games contribute to the statistics but no other game is invulnerable to skewed data due to throws.
The kill rates are a much larger sample size than that. It would be insulting if BHVR gave us data from a couple hundred games. Try hundreds of thousands of games mate.
Yes so the killer begins a chase in a poor position. It's up to the killer to not commit. It's that simple. There is no instance where generators are in a position where the killer can't cut a survivor off. It's ludicrous to think every chase you initiate means you need to catch up 30 seconds before the chase begins. What good killer player honestly does that?
EDIT: Please read this one carefully: That last paragraph you wrote. Notice how you said half the roster can't deal with holding down sprint and the other half can. This argument is vice versa to our discussion on spirit. Who's to say you shouldm't have to change your playstyle to deal with holding down sprint and running one direction until you have to vault. I could argue to you that you need to instead leave chase. Like you said to me I have to stealth. (obviously stealth still doesn't work on a good spirit but I digress) I'm just trying to show you your confirmation bias towards killer.
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>Those stats don't include DC's. Throwed games contribute to the statistics but no other game is invulnerable to skewed data due to throws.The kill rates are a much larger sample size than that. It would be insulting if BHVR gave us data from a couple hundred games. Try hundreds of thousands of games mate.
BHVR's stats don't consider disconnects or throws which occurs much more often. When I mentioned hundreds of games, I was obviously referring to certain individuals gathering data themselves.
I said it before, I'll say it again, killrates in this game don't matter. You can stand afk and make 4k with Bloodwarden or you can earn 9 hooks and get 1k because survivors escaped w/a hatch. This game is so extremely volatile in every stage, that judging by final result is simply foolish.
BHVR gave these stats because people asked them and nothing more. They themselves said not to trust given data because it might be and very likely is heavily flawed.
The only thing that more or less reliably shows the balance is the amount of hooks or gens done and what time does it take for/against certain killers to earn that.
>Yes so the killer begins a chase in a poor position. It's up to the killer to not commit. It's that simple. There is no instance where generators are in a position where the killer can't cut a survivor off.
- Three gens left, you have more or less good triangle (let's assume the distance between gens is from 20 to 32 meters)
- You play one of those killers who can't counter W+shift
- 3 survivors left
- Each of them sits on one of generators and does Shift+W strat every time you head in their direction
- Once you see it's a waste of too much time to do so and leave, they instantly return back to gens and the situation repeats. Basically they are always keeping ~20-26 meters between you and them so unless you decide to fully commit to chase, you have not a single chance to do any harm to them
What is the killer supposed to do to win here? Or is he supposed to give up? If your answer is positive, then I hope that you agree that when survivor is dealing with cheesy killer strats he's too supposed to give up.
> There is no instance where generators are in a position where the killer can't cut a survivor off.
Literally any open map where gens are in the middle or killer is forced to cycle between these gens in such a way that he physically cannot cut a survivor off because there's always a lot of room for them to run.
Or, another example, maps like Midwich with those long straight corridors and gens located on corners. Survivor spots you from far so you are either forced to find some very long "shortcuts" to get to them unseen (but not unheard) or you have to waste extra half of minute because this game's chase triggers ######### suck.
>It's ludicrous to think every chase you initiate means you need to catch up 30 seconds before the chase begins.
Who said EVERY? Stop creating strawman arguments, please.
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Firstly I agree with kill rates not being a good measure for balance. There isn't a clear win condition but kills are pretty close to it for killer. If there was something set in stone for a win then there would be much better data and a win rate stat instead.
I must've missed the context on the hundred game sample you mentioned. My bad.
Okay so at a three gen perfectly centred in the map I agree you're no longer winning that match. Solution isn't to give up but rather take the chase and if you win that chase use that pressure to try for another down. Likely going to be a 4e in that situation dependant on hooks still available. That said, I'm sure mistakes were made for this match to get to this position and that's A okay. I want to point out here though that this is cherry picked/strawman/whatever. Your example is in a losing position as killer.
"Literally any open map where gens are in the middle or killer is forced to cycle between these gens in such a way that he physically cannot cut a survivor off because there's always a lot of room for them to run."
That's if the game has got to a point where these gens are the only ones left. There is no map where there aren't any generators you can't cut survivors off. Period.
Midwich is a badly designed map agreed. Probably where this is the worst.
Nobody said every. We'll take that word off the record. It's ludicrous to think a chase you initiate means you have to commit it if it's going to take 30 seconds to catch up.
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>Okay so at a three gen perfectly centred in the map I agree you're no longer winning that match. Solution isn't to give up but rather take the chase and if you win that chase use that pressure to try for another down. Likely going to be a 4e in that situation dependant on hooks still available. That said, I'm sure mistakes were made for this match to get to this position and that's A okay. I want to point out here though that this is cherry picked/strawman/whatever. Your example is in a losing position as killer.
Perfectly centered was just an extreme example of unwinnable scenario w+shift can create.
Regardless, in almost any case of 3 gen triangle, there would be almost always one or two gens that are going to be a starting point for w+shift strats. Should I remind that 3 gen triangle is usually a scenario where killer has an advantage. I'm not even mentioning situations where survivors did well and had 2+1 or 3 gens on opposite corners of the map.
Committing to chase to the very end usually means letting go of last gen with everything that means: adrenalines, hope (the perk), opened exit gates and extremely aggressive tanking. Your only chance to prevent that is that if you commit to such chase when gens are not partially completed and even so survivor is very likely to lure you far away for you not to make it back in time.
>That's if the game has got to a point where these gens are the only ones left. There is no map where there aren't any generators you can't cut survivors off. Period.
Who stops survivors from purposely leaving such gens? I'm not even saying that this scenario doesn't necessarily have to occur at last gen left, it can happen at 2,3,4 or 5 gens, in that case the consequences are just less catastrophic.
Also, "there is no map where there aren't any generators you can't cut survivors off". Really? So if the hypothetical map spawn has only 1 gen you can cut survivors off, while all 6 other gens are spawned in a way that enables w+shift strat then it's okay? Your wording is terrible here or you purposely trying to substitute the concepts. Half of maps in the game feature a lot of w+shift spawns in every trial they are used in and the other half (with an exception of Gideon and Hawkings maybe) has such spawns in every second trial they are used.
>It's ludicrous to think a chase you initiate means you have to commit it if it's going to take 30 seconds to catch up.
Nobody commits to such chases, unless they are certain this isn't costing them the game which basically means the survivor is completely safe. There should never be such scenario where survivor knows killer can't do ######### to them without losing the game.
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"Regardless, in almost any case of 3 gen triangle, there would be almost always one or two gens that are going to be a starting point for w+shift strats. Should I remind that 3 gen triangle is usually a scenario where killer has an advantage. I'm not even mentioning situations where survivors did well and had 2+1 or 3 gens on opposite corners of the map."
I was hoping you'd say that. A three gen isn't necessarily a winning position for killer. You can still mess it up. A 3 gen in the corner of the map will always allow you to get cut off. I don't think building a 3 gen strat in the middle of the map is a good idea unless you're a prep killer with ruin up or something. Most 3 gens are in fact on one side of the map. Many maps have limited central generators which is in the survivors best interests to complete first.
'Also, "there is no map where there aren't any generators you can't cut survivors off". Really? So if the hypothetical map spawn has only 1 gen you can cut survivors off, while all 6 other gens are spawned in a way that enables w+shift strat then it's okay? '
There is also no map that does this. Keep substituting the numbers and the answer will still be: No. There is no map that does this. No matter what map it is, there are generators in worse positions than others for survivor. Getting cut off is a fundamental part of killer initiation.
"Who stops survivors from purposely leaving such gens? I'm not even saying that this scenario doesn't necessarily have to occur at last gen left, it can happen at 2,3,4 or 5 gens, in that case the consequences are just less catastrophic."
Regardless of what position you're in the game. I'd highly recommend getting survivors off their bad generators. They're bad because if you start chase there, you're likely taking a hit.
'Nobody commits to such chases, unless they are certain this isn't costing them the game which basically means the survivor is completely safe. There should never be such scenario where survivor knows killer can't do [BAD WORD] to them without losing the game.'
Then we agree on that. No because there is no map where all the generators killers can't do anything to them. There's a reason why Otzdarva gets more stressed over losing one particular generator to another. He understand what a generator he can afford to lose is and isn't.
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When they rebalance ALL the maps, make them smaller, and make more mind-game loops.
Aka, never.
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Everyone is going for escapes as survivor and kills as killer. 2 kills / 2 escapes should be where the balance should be made. Unless you want Killers to not make kills or survivors not make escapes. What would the point of the game even being for survivor if they never had a chance to escape. The game should be equally fun for Killers as Survivors.
Maybe the rolls should be reversed. Killers should only make a kill in 20% of their games. I bet that would be absolutely acceptable.
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I play killer less than I play survivor, but I still play it. I think the problem here is that both sides complain about each other. Like, can't we just be happy with the game and not have a temper tantrum any time the other side has an advantage? It's a video game, dangit! When did all the sweaty fortnite kids come here?
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I would just argue that statistics don't mean anything in such a volatile game like dbd. 20% kill rate means nothing ;)
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That's easy to say when you're not the one being asked to bite the bullet. Why is it so bad to have a balanced game? What's the drawback in a balanced game?
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If the stats were close, then it's not a big deal but when you only escape 1 out of every 20 games because there's a 20% escape rate, there's a problem.
Because I know someone is going to say something about the math... 1 survivor escapes every 5 games. It takes 20 games for 4 survivors to escape. 1 of those escapes is you on average in 20 games, the other 3 escapes are the other survivors on average in 20 games.
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You entirely missed the point.
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