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why not make more s tier characters
so nurse spirit are s tier. Why not buff other killers to their power if mmr is going to be a thing so you can play more than just 2 to 3 killers at the top 0.1%
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also there would be more variety so it would be more fun for survivors
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Blight, Spirit, Nurse.
No more needed.
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why i would like to play more thasn just blight because i dont want to play nurse cause that boring and nurse is boring too in my opinion.
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blights only s tier with alchemists ring or compound 21
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2 of those are unbearable on console. Quite a few people wanted chapter 19 to be a seriously strong killer but they went the other way on that one 😅
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if you play on console you dont really matter your not optimized behaviour has made that clear
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Its too much work. And some powers can never be S-tier, i guess. Most killer are around B-tier. So it would be better to get all killer to this level. And then nerf survivor.
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YESSS
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Because survivors would complain about being unable to loop the killer for 20 years
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Blight can't compete against Death squads. He's a normal killer at loops and they took away his strongest perk combo ruin undying
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who cares about them complaining
people are going to complain no matter what
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he can with alchemist ring and compound 21 my guy i literally do it all the time
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Highly doubt you beat death squads with blight. Spirit and nurse even struggle against the top 0.1% so what makes you think blight can compete?
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I never used ruin undying on blight, since I always knew how easy death squads would leave me without 2 perks quickly and used antiheal build instead (thana, forced penance combo in particular with pop and bbq or infectious fright). For addons I run compound 7 + blighted rat or alchemist ring when I see it's getting to sweaty. For the map I use cornfield.
When I played sweaty, I haven't lost a single blight game.
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More variety would be nice though:(
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i do i have no life bro
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this game is my life
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If every killer was S Tier the game would be unplayable.
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If mmr works very well we won't need that
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No literally the opposite.
MMR will create a system where the top tier players are only playing nurse all day. They quit, then the next tier of player plays vs nurse. So on, so on.
The severe gap in killer power level is an existential problem for DBD's survival if they want to do skill based matchmaking. Good players won't want to play endlessly against the same killers.
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just look at trapper and clown whos gonna play trapper and clown at high mmr you will see none
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Because survivors complain lol they HATE Nurse and Spirit so much. The only reason the Nurse complaints have subsided is because you barely see Nurses anymore. Wait till MMR is on and the complaints will skyrocket.
Survivors wanted Pyramidhead and Freddy nerfed, deathslinger too when none of these are viable at the highest level. They have the devs wrapped around their fingers since they're paying the bills which is why we end up with non top-tier killers nerfed even harder.
"but but teh killrates!!"
The game is balanced around bad survivors or survivors that just want to goof around. All the killers seem quite competitive, tryhard sweatlords but the amount of survivors I see doing nothing or goofing off is ridiculous. Wait till you get those games where everyone wants to do the objective and you see how unbalanced the game is. The one benefit of MMR would be if it put all the good survivors together so the game could be rebalanced but we have seen twice now that the MMR does not do that and is incapable of that. 2 red ranks, a green rank and a rank 19 vs a rank 1 tryhard killer. Killer gets the kills and devs just see the endgame stats and leave the balance as it is.
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Just watch Dowsey’s vod on twitch where he had to sit in Q for 2 hours on twins due to his absurd 800+ kills with 1 escape MMR rating to then get promptly dumpstered by comp players.
Even the top 1% players in the game can’t win with non-nurse/spirit games verses that.
buffing all killers will even out because people who are good with any killer will always go up in MMR so the rest of us mediocre players will be left with mediocre competition. That’s how MMR works. If bhvr goes through with the MMR, they have got to bring more killers up to par
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Lol I was watching his stream for about 40 minutes during that queue. Did he actually lose the game when he finally got one? That's actually quite funny as it must have been his first loss on Twins.
I guess the MMR kind of worked there, despite the ridiculous 2 hour queue...
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I agree it put too killer versus top survivors, but it more so just highlights the problem with having MMR but two “viable” killers for the folks to use that play at that level.
mid be bored as hell if I HAD to choose one of two to play every single match.
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We need more s tier killers because even high ranks don't want the same crap all the time. Were due an s rank killer so hopefully blight post fov change can do that.
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Any killer can be S tier if you put your mind to it.
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He got wrecked hard.
Funny thing is against them solo they would still be good survivors, but the kind of co-ordination they pulled off to hit the Twins the way they did isn't ever going to happen without voice communication. Meanwhile the devs insist it barely makes a difference.
And everyone wonders why killers dodge 4 man groups.
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Not even close lol. I could be the jesus christ of michael and play everything right and still lose to say oracle because like it or not killers can only be in one place at a time. Spirit and nurse circumvent it by having high map pressure and antiloop but someone like michael has no map pressure,No anti loop, And stuns himself with the failure that is t1.
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Become a legion main then
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I'm sorry, but this is a BLATANT lie. Why hasn't Trapper been used in a tournament? I'll wait forever on your reply sir lol.
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Not on Console.
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Legion main here.
There is only pain that awaits you if you choose this path.
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That isn't how tiers work. At all.
Even if you think every killer can be viable in high end play (spoilers, they can't) that doesn't mean every character is the same tier. Tiers are there to show you the relative power discrepancy between options and how they generally fare on the competitive level, how much control you as a player have over the game.
Tiers are in some ways over-simplifications, but they aren't 'incorrect' just because its possible to get good at a low tier. And sometimes it ISN'T possible to get good at a low tier. Its quite common in fighting games for example for some parts of the roster to just... not work and no matter how much you practice em they never can do well.
Generally what makes a high tier a high tier and separates it from the mid tier is their tools are versatile and consistent. What separates a mid tier from a low tier is that mid tiers are generally competitively viable and will see success with a good player, and what separates a low tier from a bottom tier is that they are functional.
DBD has a problem where its viable character list is exclusively at its high tier, and worse, they also completely break the game. This indicates its less a problem with 'we need more high tier killers' and more 'Holy ######### the game's base mechanics need a rework because 95% of the cast can't DO anything using the base mechanics and so the only viable characters completely ignore them."
So ideally we don't get more high tiers and Spirit and Nurse are nerfed... after the base game is reworked so killers don't default lose pretty much every interaction that is based on core gameplay. There are some deep structural flaws in how DBD plays as a game that are fairly subtle and pernicious that are really worming their way into the spotlight as more and more people get good at the game and are more aware of them and utilize them. DBD is kinda low key 'balancing through obscurity' and now that the ways you can force a win trivially as a survivor are becoming more known by even the casual playerbase its just... all you see.
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You also have freddy on console
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....you have Freddy on PC too?
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and that's why there's no need in even more killers survivors can't learn to play against.
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So we have Freddy and Spirit.
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and?
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the thing is, some of the killers powers would become too good. take deathslinger as an example, if he could reload in a second he would destroy every single loop in the game
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At the low level probably. At high hed probably still lose because no map pressure and survivors know how to loop antiloop. They don't really need to start buffing killers an insane amount they need to rework the survivor objective so all killers have a chance to do something.
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Blight is debatable stronger than spirit, so no we are not lacking in s tier killers. We are lacking in skillful killers.
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Stop drinking the kool aid. Blight is junk and to compare him to Spirit is ridiculous
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The problem has always been the base mechanics but a lot of survivors don’t want tk admit this because it hurts their egos.
In a fighting game for example you both immediately and throughout the match have the chance to do damage to each other at any point.
In DBD once a trial starts survivors can jump on their objective immediately and start putting charges into the generators. For killers you see a survivor, you chase for a hit and...pallet stun, safe pallet so break and continue chase, go for a hit, pallet stun and break the pallet. You switch to a new target go for the hit and pallet stun, safe pallet so need to break, and rinse and repeat.
At the highest level you see survivors stop being greedy at pallets and actually play them safer. The pallets keep a good chunk of the killers at bay while the team hits away at the gens. Sure the game gets easier for killer once resources have been worn down a bit but by then you’re playing catch up. This isnt even factoring in how strong some windows can be.
Then you look at tournaments, Hexy’s being a good example.
Nurse - goes through pallets
Spirit - Goes around pallets
Hag - teleports on top of survivors
Pyramid - shoots through pallets
It’s no wonder these were the 4 most used killers in the tournament whereas almost nobody wanted to play any of the other killers and in the finals/semi-finals only 1 person chose to play Freddy despite survivors insisting he’s extremely OP.
This post isn’t meant to rag on survivors, I play survivor too, but beating a lot of killers isnt a huge feat. The pallets are designed to protect you, the chases are designed that the killer has to wait for you to make a mistake before they can get a hit. Whether you win or lose just depends on what the other survivors do while you’re in a chase. When their on gens you see how quickly 3 will pop in first chase. The problem with the games balance is that many people don’t do gens when they play survivor they just waste so much time doing anything but gens.
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>In a fighting game for example you both immediately and throughout the match have the chance to do damage to each other at any point.
You actually don't, and I think this is one of the key problems.
In fighting games advantage vs disadvantage states are a huge thing. In a fighting game it doesn't matter how well you play, if your in mid combo or are going up against a 50/50 how good you are doesn't matter, you got put in a position before that has you at your opponent's mercy and your just trying to mitigate damage at this point.
In DBD, such a absurdly huge goal of the game is to ensure the survivors never feel powerless. So you never get a situation where the survivor can't try something to get out of a bad situation, up until you lose the entire interaction anyway. Sometimes it takes a LOT of skill to pull this off, so at the mid game level DBD functions, but at high end the game breaks down because one side NEVER loses agency, and this is a critical game design flaw, because it means survivors never lose control over the game.
But that is just one part of this whole issue. The other core issue is that survivor base kit is just way stronger than killer base kit, and its stronger in ways you... sorta want but its not good once exploited. Case in point is "W meta." It sounds stupid because at the mid level it would be INSANE for survivors not to be able to get distance to start a chase with, but the issue is the math of gen time means once your really coordinated you can just... make it so killers literally can't win in a majority of maps and killer cases. The ones that ignore this tend to be so strong mobility wise chases don't even resemble anything like the base game.
In a fighting example here, imagine if 95% of the cast can't use throws or overheads, so if you crouchblock they never can open you up ever and the game is just inevitably going to go to timeout against them and as long as you jab them a tiny bit you always win. And then for that 5% of the cast they get to not only throw, but have a full screen projectile you can't jump over that requires you to perfect parry at a random point during the animation and which pierces blocks.
Loops might be a little too strong right now, but at least you can mindgame them. In the context of a loop and this 'blocking in a fighting game' example, most of the cast are what we would call 'honest' characters: They CAN open you up, its just hard and so they struggle but can still do absolutely fine at the top end. Its problematic in how it compounds with the killer basekit weakness overall, and how killers aren't rewarded enough for winning chases and how W is just so strong, but loops themselves are actually in a pretty ok spot.
The big issues I see facing DBD and general killer viability are:
Dropping chases/stealth isn't even a goal ever anymore, its just maximum time wasting using non-interactive systems.
Killers aren't rewarded for winning chases enough: Unhooks are too 'powerful' not in the sense they are too easy, but killer gets jack all if there is an unhook and they don't snowball, leading to a campy/sluggy meta.
Gen times can't get longer without the game getting VERY boring but killers just can't... spend time on anything without gens popping too fast. A killer winning a chase extremely fast at 45 seconds still probably loses because winning that chase doesn't stop 3 gens from popping.
The fixes here that would allow you to lower the power level of S tiers and make gameplay more diverse in general would be weird and controversial. Something like 'reverse bloodlust' where your faster OUT of chases so that you can still loop the killer and mindgame with em fine but if you just run over open ground they catch up to you absurdly fast, basekit 'Mini-pop', some way to block gens if your defending them, something that rewards the killer for hooks that don't result in kills or further downs, and something that slows the game down globally if the killer is playing well even if some gen jockey is just slamming gens would allow a lot of power to be moved OUT of killer in ways players often find annoying.
Like, if landing a hook is REALLY GOOD intrinsically, like say... permanently slowing that survivor's repair speed, suddenly you CAN do things like make the hook timer slow down if the killer is near and not in a chase, because the killer no longer NEEDS to either secure that kill or get a second down off that first hook, they already meaningfully got a tempo advantage off the hook. You now can meaningfully punish camping more than it already is. But in the current space the game is at you can't, and in fact all these anti-camping tools like BT actually force you to camp more because you need to be like 2 inches away from the hook to block a BT rescue or get something like a down out of it and you can't get NOTHING out of a hook because you gave up 3 gens for it.
Ultimately the killer needs more room to breath and 'slack' so that more killers are viable and super sweaty killer play not only isn't required, but no longer as rewarded. But in a reality where the survivors always have control and the killer only is rewarded with keeping people off gens now and forever, with no intermediate goals in the game, there is no room to do anything but sweat every chase, every down, every hook, every unhook.
And I get it, this all sounds crazy if your playing outside of a sweat squad and your a survivor main and never have seen one in action. I get it, the killer doesn't feel weak cuz when they win they REALLY WIN. This is a lot of abstract math nonsense as opposed to the in game experience where sometimes you do just get out played and blown out.
But that mathy nonsense matters a lot an affects the game a lot. For example, its BONKERS how much better slugging is tempo wise than hooks. Tempo wise your goal with hooking or slugging is to get survivors off hooks, but slugging is so insanely better at it: The time it takes to unhook a survivor is just the travel time to the hook, which means 2 survivors are 'incapacitated' and not doing gens for just that amount of time. Meanwhile it takes you time to not only go to the hook with the survivor, but pick em up and place them, so you lose time as a killer doing this to pressure others. If you slug, you don't lose any time, and it takes the survivor 30 seconds to get to the point they can instantly be picked up. So if you slug, you can pressure another survivor right away, one survivor isn't on gens for 30 seconds plus the time it takes for the third to reach them, and the third is off gens in the time it takes to reach them.
That is asinine, slugging should be a short term choice to instantly start another chase, but the fact its not just better but ridiculously superior to slug unless you think you can use the hook to gain tempo via camping/patrolling/whatever by sometimes over *two minutes* of survivor gen repair time is absurd. That is the kinda deep at the bedrock issue no one really thinks about that causes a lot of negativity for the killer and a lot of unfun killer strategies trying to mitigate this weakness of the hook for survivors.
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The nurse is the only true S tier killer
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S Tier is for Overpowered Killers.
Killers should all be around A and B tier.
Using the absolute strongest killer as the lowest balance level power for all Killers is ridiculous.
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Ever watch oracle or agony tourney survivor team play?
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So Killers need balanced to the less than 1% of the game's population? (that went awful for Overwatch)
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At least overwatch has more than 2 characters viable at the highest level. People like fitzy can play in tourney as sombra and win even if shes not the best pick. This game needs a way to bring all the characters more in line so the top level isnt nurse spirit or lose. Then we can talk about addressing nurse and spirit.
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