General Discussions
General Discussions
The right way and wrong way to do DBD MMR
Dbd as a game has always been iffy with match making with rainbow ranked lobbies and bad and good players all thrown together to fend for themselves in solo queue which was always a magical experience, however mmr is here to fix it or so it would seem.
The problem with the idea for current mmr in dbd is that there are no options, you either play with mmr on or you don't play the game at all, with many high mmr matches becoming a sweat fest and killers waiting upwards of an hour queue time just to get into them the game quickly start to lose variety of gameplay as who would want to wait an hour to use a fun build at high mmr if they know they are going to lose vs current where even a fun build can stand a chance against the random 4 solo queue survivors you found after a minute of searching.
So here is my suggestion, have a ranked and casual mode for dbd, simple as that, a second entirely new gamemode of ranked dbd, the only difference would be which one you queue into on the main menu.
That way survivors and killers have their choice in ranked vs unranked matchmaking, so if they want to go in as a test of skill they can queue up for ranked matches, or if they want to play something more casual, and less skill demanding they can play casual match making which would be the game as it currently is, match making based on ranks and the longer the queue times the farther out it can place you with other players of lower or higher ranks to get into matches faster.
The way I see it mmr in its current forced state only really appeals to very few members of the community but mmr in a state where its the best of both worlds, mmr for those who want it, and having an unranked casual gamemode for people who couldn't care less about real skill based match making would be met by having an option for both groups, please give this some consideration as alternative options for ranked and unranked would satisfy both ends of the community both casual and competitive players
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My concern would be sweat lord killers invading the casuals to steamroll them, and sweat lord SWF doing the same. How would either be prevented?
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You can't avoid that. It's the same thing that happens in Overwatch between sweatlord competitive players coming into Quick Play. Especially the stacked teams of them.
In the end, doing those options in DbD would solve nothing. It's still going to come down to luck of the draw on whether a casual player gets pitted against sweatlords.
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no matter the system in place sweaty players who want to do nothing but trounce newer players would always find a way, make new accounts until their mmr tells them to make another, purposely throw matches to lower it, the whole 9 yards
but that is a small fraction of the community, much like how the people who actually like mmr are a small fraction of the community, if we only make stuff with a small fraction of the community in mind while also not making stuff for the larger portion of the community because of a small fraction in mind that sounds like one of the fastest ways to lose an audience
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Personally I have noted the last times I have faced real good competent teams in the past 6 months, it was twice, if I tally matches within the past 6 months from a single killer only I averaged 9200 blight hits, most likely 15-20 hits a game or around 9200/17.5 games or around 500 games, you are telling me that because of on average facing some one might be facing a sweaty team 1 in around 250 games they shouldn't have a split system because of 0.4% of killer matches.
In a data set where the outliers are so far away they aren't statistically significant enough to even bother with we should make an entire new unwanted by many enjoyed by few system with no choice for alternative options.
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Fair enough. I don't have such data and don't have the patience to collect it, so I will nod to your information.
But BHVR still won't do it. They said creating new game modes is something they don't want to do because it would split the player base and they really don't have the numbers to be able to afford it. It would make queue times everywhere way too high. So, if that's true and they acknowledge there aren't enough players for that, I can't see them creating separate queueing systems, either.
Your idea is not a bad one, they just won't do it.
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if the outliers are so statistically insignificant then why would we need extra modes at all?
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The problem with the idea for current mmr in dbd is that there are no options, you either play with mmr on or you don't play the game at all, with many high mmr matches becoming a sweat fest and killers waiting upwards of an hour queue time just to get into them the game quickly start to lose variety of gameplay as who would want to wait an hour to use a fun build at high mmr if they know they are going to lose vs current where even a fun build can stand a chance against the random 4 solo queue survivors you found after a minute of searching.
Paragraph 2, Overview + more information, Because it would be more fun and even if those outliers exist to ruin the fun they are so few and far between that saying would shouldn't do ranked and unranked game modes because of outliers would be saying 249/250 times was fine but 1/250 wasn't it so can the whole thing
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You can play casually if you want, MMR or no. However, if you're not playing to win, then you shouldn't care nor be surprised that you lose. You need to accept that you will lose if you're not playing to win, because everyone else is playing to win.
Unfortunately, people don't want to "play casually", they want to win all the time (or feel like they could've won), even if they barely make an effort.
If people really wanted to "play casually", they'd all naturally derank to the same rank, where they could all play casually together. I speak from experience: I stay at around rank 10 as killer (when I bother to play killer for prolonged periods of time) because I play casually. Were I to play to win, I'd get to rank 1. You don't get to rank 1/high MMR by playing casually; you do it by playing to win.
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I think the idea is to pit sweat lord killers vs sweat lord SWFs. Not sure how the devs would pull that off but that's what I would aim to do in that situation.
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The point of a line in the sand between casual and ranked games would be people who are actually competitive or good at the game would probably draw more from their victories in a ranked gamemode and play more casual in a casual based gamemode. If they want to sweat in casual they would probably burn themselves out on it because just due to the exitance of a ranked high skill mode their wins are worth less if they feel their win was handed to them for choosing casual then if they actually worked for it in competitive with players of equal skill.
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This gamemode already exists, its called crossplay on vs crossplay off, casual vs competitive, I just want it to stay around after they make mmr without a 2 hour queue time
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If it already exists, as you claim, then your problem is player count, which is not something the devs can fix.
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True it might not something they should fix, but it also shouldn't be a problem they create
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So mmr is a bad idea got it, because what we have right now is basically casual and they are making a ranked for a majority of the playerbase that doesn't want it
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They're not creating any problem. You'll still be able to change your crossplay settings when MMR is released.
The fact that most people play to win tells me that the majority does not, in fact, want to play casually.
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if they make a mmr system and it takes longer to get into matches that is by definition making a artificial problem, I don't really care about toggling crossplay but I do care if it takes longer to get into a match
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I play with crossplay off because it offers, better hitboxes, better players, better queue times
What mmr would bring, better players, the costs queue times, and the day it takes longer to queue into a match as either side than it does to play one is the day I drop this game
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Why do you equate MMR with a hyper-competitive mode? I'm curious because in some of the other games I play, Overwatch and Paladins for example, their Quick Play casual modes use a hidden MMR system, whereas their competitive modes create matches based on player rank.
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because they always find a way to drain fun from games, what happed to overwatch due to competitive play, everyone starts yelling and pointing fingers even in casual, hero stacking removed from casual and competitive, role lock in casual in a casual gamemode you can't have 6 people allowed to do what they want. Sure their quickplay modes have hidden mmr but if you played overwatch at release vs is current state, the game slowly lost what soul it had to it, and the turning point was competitive, if you think dbd is toxic now, just you wait and see what a ranked mode can do. Games with competitive usually stop being follow the fun and start being boring
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Correct. But my point is, even back at Overwatch's launch before they got competitive put in because they had to redesign aspects of it and it wasn't ready, Quick Play at launch still used a hidden MMR system for matchmaking.
Now, you say competitive drained the soul out of OW, which I agree with. But what you're proposing, in essence, is a separate competitive and casual mode. Meaning, you're asking to take DbD down the precise path that OW suffered.
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I thought about the same thing but when you think about it, it won't help at all. BHVR doesn't have the player numbers to split the community in casual and tryhard this is why this MMR system is there in the first place. In my opinion BHVR should reward players for hitting rank one (or red rank idk) so they have a motivation to play in high ranks. The issue right now is you get nothing for being high rank. Sure in the future you'll get BPs for hitting a certain rank but lets be honest, how long does it take to grind 250.000 BPs? exactly.
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This is true but its more along the lines of might was well leave some shell of its former self behind then no shell at all, some people still played overwatch because it at least has gamemodes where you don't get yelled at for playing what you want instead of goats or something
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You know, off topic, I haven't played Overwatch as a solo in over two years. Oh, I've played since its beta, don't get me wrong, but since early 2018 or so, I only login with the Friends & Family team. We only play QP, QPC, and Mystery Heroes. I walked away from Comp in 2017.
I bring that up because, as much as I hate SWFs over here, I do understand why it exists the way it does. I won't play Survivor here because it would have to be solo (none of my RL people care one bit about DbD).
Just a random thought.
Anyway, with BHVR admitting that their player numbers are too low to allow them to add new game modes to DbD because of what it would do to queue times, them adding extra queue options would suffer the same problem. DbD has a serious core issue. They claim it's sold over 5 million copies. Yet, the player base is so low they can't do new game modes (or your queue options). DbD has a serious player retention issue. But I'm fairly convinced BHVR cares more about short term profits over long-term gain, so that retention problem is unlikely to ever change.
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The beta and first days after release was some of the most fun I ever had in overwatch just behind lucio ball, everything else paled in comparison after as they started to remove the things that were appealing to the game into nothing but a side gamemode and an afterthought and most problems in the game stem from it, once games such as overwatch stop following the fun they just aren't themselves anymore. They didn't make trickster to be good they made them to be fun. Soon I don't think that will be the case with design.
I just don't want to see dbd follow the same trend however I know that mmr isn't enough to kill dbd I do know it will worsen already bad queue times and make gameplay stale at high levels, you can only loop shack so many times against a good player before it loses its luster but seeing a rank 8 meg click a flashlight and instantly waste god pallet are some of the only reasons I can think of to keep going.
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(pc) Dbd already has a split community, crossplay and crossplay off, mmr singlehandedly crippled that other half of the community which before mmr had faster queue time, better hit detection, and better players on average, I remember spending 10 minutes queuing just to not get into a match on crossplay off and 2 minutes to get into a crossplay on match but after the first one queue time matched crossplay off, the only thing this mmr is good for right now is adding more wait time for the same match making
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