Self-Care - is it 'anti-teamwork'?
I seem to find a lot of the time when I have Self-Care I have team mates who are REALLY insistent on healing me, one-on-one, which I find puzzling - I usually try to pull away a couple of times so they get the hint, but they waste SO much time attempting, pointing, circling - and then sometimes deliberately pallet surfing, I assume in annoyance, that I prefer to heal myself.
I get that it's slower than a team mate healing you - but to me, if I don't actually use it, it's a wasted perk slot and I think it's better for the team mate to go off and do other objectives and leave me to heal. Is it actually more efficient to just let them heal me, compared to me healing for longer and freeing them up for other objectives? Am I actually having a negative overall impact on the team by using it?
Comments
-
Altruism points. A man has got to pip.
14 -
They are probably upset at the points they feel you are denying them so they can pip, but your logic makes a certain amount of sense.
2 -
It's faster if a team mate heals you and you can both get on a gen or something. Self care is ideally used when your mates can't help you so they pull the killer away from you to give you time but it is a waste of time to heal yourself if someone is free to help you.
6 -
Self care is selfish IMO. You deny your team the heal points, it takes more time heal, time you could be on a genny and often leads to multiple occurrences a game where you run away and heal, not being productive. It also is a bit of a crutch, as you never learn to play injured. If you self care twice a game, that is like a whole genny you could have done. You also don't bring a perk that helps the team, self care helps only you.
And from the sounds of it, you keep hindering you teams ability to heal you by pulling away, ######### is that?
18 -
I really think it's unnecessary.
Empathy/Bond is much better for map awareness and team healing than self care. More people should realize this.
I HAVE to run it since my teammates will most likely run Self Care so I don't end up wasting my time.
If people started to use better more efficient perks, they'll realize Self Care is trash.
1 -
inner strength is better. not only are you decreasing the chances of noed (you are probably not going to cleanse all 5 totems), but you are also making your self heal more efficient. i often get to heal during chases thanks to inner strength. way better alternative to self care
6 -
This is a question that is usually impossible to answer in real time because you don't know what your teammates' loadouts are. Let's imagine you have Self Care + Botany, for example, and the teammate trying to heal you has no healing items or perks. You would heal to full in 24 seconds as one person with Self Care, which would actually save the team time compared to the 16 seconds base heal time for two people. However, any time your teammate spends trying to get you to stop and let them heal you would take away from the savings.
On the other hand, let's imagine your teammate has a medkit. Medkits give a buff of between 25% to 80% to healing others, depending on the medkit and add-ons, so it's very likely that they would save the team time by healing you. This effect is even stronger if they have healing perks as well.
However, there's another key factor here. If the killer is able to interrupt the heal before you finish, healing with a buddy is much better. For one, they may be able to take a hit for you so you don't go right back down, and also they'll finish the heal faster, meaning it's less likely the killer will have enough time to interrupt the heal in the first place. For this reason, you'll often see people run to very safe locations before they start to heal with Self Care, which effectively adds to the time of the heal.
One other secondary factor to consider is the BP side. If you heal yourself instead of letting a teammate heal you, you're depriving them of a minimum of 500-600 altruism BPs (depending on if they have a medkit or not) to get a minimum of 300 survival BPs for yourself. Especially if that teammate came to unhook you or pick you up off the ground, then, it can come off as kind of rude to not let them heal you even if it's not the optimal play.
Here's how I do things with Self Care:
If there's a teammate nearby, we're also in a good spot for a heal, and the situation calls for a heal instead of just playing injured, I usually let them heal me, even with Botany, and especially if they're clearly intent on healing me. You technically lose up to 8 seconds for the team by doing this if you're running Botany and they have no healing buffs, as I mentioned, but I think this is a fair trade to hedge against time wasted by a teammate that persistently tries to heal you and the killer interrupting you near the end of a self heal, which can be disastrous in terms of wasted time and free pressure. It also probably increases the likelihood of that player making altruistic plays to bail you out later in the game.
I basically treat Self Care as an insurance policy rather than a primary way to heal myself. If it doesn't make sense to play injured in that situation, I don't have a medkit with 16+ charges, and there's no teammate close to me, Self Care is a godsend. If not, I don't force it just because I have it. If you treat it like an insurance policy, it doesn't feel so much like you're wasting a perk slot even if you don't use it; the benefit of the perk, just like insurance, is to be covered in situations where you really do need help. Obviously it doesn't make sense to have insurance against something that is rare and/or not so impactful, but I still think those situations are frequent enough and important enough that it's a fair perk to run. Not meta by an means, but a worthy use of a perk slot, especially in solo queue.
5 -
It's much more likely these people are trying to get a challenge or ritual done. But that's really their own problem.
If someone pulls away from me once after I try to heal them I walk away, I'm not going to harass them about it. I wish others would extend the same curtesy to me when I'm trying to deplete a medkit or running Resilience.
Someone calling running Self Care selfish is really silly and shows they take this game way too seriously. There's plenty of ways to get more BP or emblems. If you're so starved for them go get chased by the killer, work on a gen, do totems, etc.
3 -
not really. what if there is no one near. what if one do the gen while i heal. that's teamwork. why he should waste time healing me when he can done the gen while i heal.
2 -
You're like those people who get hook saved and run away instantly when its safe to heal.
& you answered your own question, yes of course you're hurting your team. I mean, you shouldn't even be using Self Care at high ranks (if thats what you are doing), its a needless perk because with actually good teammates, its a waste of a slot and you'd be better off bringing something else to the match. Its a selfish perk like someone else said, I get it at low ranks but when you start climbing, all it conveys is that you aren't confident without it and you'd rather slow yourself down to heal yourself rather than let a teammate do it faster and get some points while at it.
You do you though.
0 -
I'm not here to tell anyone how to play, but what about finishing the generator and getting the heal after by the teammate?
0 -
Ok, i want to learn from you. How do you prevent your teammates from not healing you? I had that more than once, that i wasnt healed, instead a gen was fixed (that hasnt been worked on) and once it was fixed they still run away without healing me.
The first time it happend i was puzzled, but when the killer came, he went for the easy target - the injured one. Maybe its because of my region, i play with lots of russians, but it happens very often, including bodyblocking me so the killer wont chase the others (not injured ones).
So what perks do i have to take to prevent that situation? Until you bring up a reliable answer, i keep running self care.
1 -
Inner Strength is fine, but super overrated imo. It works great in a locker build (e.g. Q&Q, DS, IS, HO), but otherwise it has some major downsides, namely travel time to and from totems and lockers, the necessity of cleansing totems in games where it might not make sense in order to get your perk to work, teammates doing bones, well-hidden totems, the killer running Haunted Grounds, the potential of being caught out by Undying while cleansing, etc.
Sometimes it'll work out great - like, you'll be mid chase with the build I mentioned above, you break LOS and hop into a locker. You are 100% set. If they lose you due to Q&Q, you're safe. If they pull you out of the locker, you're safe due to DS. If they try to wait out the DS, you're safe due to HO and healed due to IS. That sort of thing is nuts and can waste a ton of time for the killer.
Other times you're injured, can't find a totem, and the killer is a stealth killer and you don't feel safe cruising around for a totem or just getting on a gen. Or, maybe you find a totem in 10 seconds, take 14 seconds to cleanse it, take 10 seconds to run to the nearest locker, take 10 more seconds to heal and exit quietly, and take 10 more seconds to get back to the gen you were on, and that's if the killer never detects and interrupts you... In these situations you'd be dreaming of Self Care.
In four-man SWF it's definitely a more reliable perk though. You can have your buddies not cleanse totems and let you know where they are, for example, and in most situations you can pretty easily find someone to heal you if using IS isn't feasible.
TL;DR Self Care is better in solo queue, while IS is probably better in four-man SWF. Self Care is always more reliable and consistent, though, while IS is more luck dependent.
2 -
Thanks for all your opinions - I've only been playing this game for a few weeks at this point, so I'm still working on levelling up my survivors and experimenting with different builds. I'm rank 11 at the moment. I think based on what people have said that it's one I might not use for now - though bear in mind I haven't unlocked all survivor perks (just David, Claudette, Jake and the first of Nea) so I am still limited in what I can use. I'm working on Meg at the moment and have been using Quick & Quiet, Balanced Landing, Empathy and Self-Care.
0 -
Self-Care is 100% hurting the team if you're straight up healing yourself with it all the time on its own. It's almost singlehandedly throwing the game if you're using it when the killer has Sloppy Butcher or Dying Light.
All the time you are spending on Self-Care is time you're not spending saving a teammate, doing a gen, finding a totem, etc. You're having to Self-Care because the gens aren't done, and the gens often aren't done because people are using Self-Care in a corner.
Inner Strength, Pharmacy, Second Wind are all much more efficient. If you have to run SC, pair it with Botany Knowledge.
1 -
Self-Care is trash perk and make teams lose usually. If i have not challange i never using that perk.
When killer uses perks to make people slow heal and while this time i see someone doing self-care i really wanna kill myself. Waste of time, giving advantage to killer.
0 -
Just to throw some numbers out there:
Teammate heal= 16 seconds
Self-Care= 32 seconds
Self-Care+Botany Knowledge= 24 seconds
Two injured teammates can heal each other in the time it takes one survivor to Self-Care.
0 -
SC+BK is pretty solid regardless of rank.
SC on its own is almost half a gen's worth of time standing still.
0 -
Sometimes, it can provide actual value.
Unfortunately, most people use it awfully and go self care in the corner, even with sloppy butcher. The correct time to use it is when you are stretched for resources. You're in a chase and you have the opportunity to start self-caring at a strong loop. There's three survivors left, one's hooked, and someone needs to go for the rescue quickly. There's two survivors left, you're injured, and you need to heal yourself before you can go for the kill.
The point is, there are some times where teammates need to assume different responsibilities but you still need a heal. In those specific cases, it will be useful. In most regular situations, it's better to wait for a teammate to finish the heal for you, but it can still be useful at certain times.
I usually prefer to run inner strength, though. Not only is it much quicker, but I rarely need more than five heals per game.
0 -
I can't answer that question simply because it's too subjective.
"Why won't they heal me?"
"Why won't they unhook me?"
"Why don't they open the gates?"
It's a series of question that depend solely on the players themselves.
What you could do is send subconscious signals to the players that you are in need of help.
Kindred is a great perk for this.
On top of this, instead of running Self Care, run smth like Bond or Empathy that vastly expands your map awareness (not to mention your team mates). If at least 2 survivors run this, you wouldn't waste so much time spending precious minutes healing thyselves.
1 -
Teammates running SC is the bane of my solo q experience. I run Kindred pretty regularly, and the number of teammates I see using self-care in map corners is atrocious. It has it's time and place, but not at the expense of gen progression or saving a teammate. It's like some players are terrified to do anything unless they're at full health.
Personally, I'd rather go down setting off the last gen then being a SC potato the whole match.
0 -
I just got Inner Strength from the Shrine but I don't have Pharmacy or Second Wind so can't use them - I do have Botany but I think based on what people have said I should just ditch Self-Care completely.
0 -
Not healing is one of the strongest things survivors can do against most killers
0 -
I would remove self care and take kindred instead. It shows the survivors whenever one is hooked, so in solo groups you can figure out who is going for the save, and shows the killer if he's close to the hook so you know if it's worth going for the save.
0 -
SC encourages you to stand in a single spot for 32 seconds instead of 16. If the killer is running Nurses Calling, that's more opportunity to get discovered. That alone in my book is a good reason to not run it.
That being said, SC does not actually translate to more lost gen time, SC only slows down the healing by 50%. Sure, you'll get healed in half the time, but that means your teammate isn't doing a gen either. So the same amount of gen time or more is lost when somebody else heals you. Remember, somebody healing you means TWO people are not doing gens for 16 seconds. That translates to 32 seconds of lost time on a generator
So SC healing or healing with a Teammate translates to roughly the same amount of generator time lost.
1 -
Sorry, I realised it's actually Kindred that I have been using, not Empathy - so I need to consider what to swap out SC for. Still Tier 2 perks at this point on Meg. Perhaps swap the SC out for Inner Strength - I always try to cleanse totems anyway so would suit how I play, plus can bounce into a locker with Q&Q.
2 -
Med kits and Bond are my healing strategy. Infinitely better than Self Care.
0 -
No worries, lots of perks to learn and keep track of as you are starting out :)
Inner strength is one of my favorites, it has utility and it helps teach totem spawns by making sure you always have a reason to keep an eye out for them.
0 -
Bond is one of my favorite perk.
1 -
Self-Care + Botany Knowledge = 💛
2 -
One thing to keep in mind is that Self-Care also shuts down perks like Desperate Measures, Botany and We'll Make It. If the survivor trying to heal you has any of those perks, I think it's more efficient to let them heal you. Particularly We'll Make It.
Possibly Autodidact as well, though I'm not sure quite how that perk works.
0 -
I’ll always let somebody heal me if they want to, but I run Self-Care + Botany Knowledge and most likely a med-kit, so it’s actually faster to heal myself than to let a teammate do it.
0 -
- People have challenges to do
- People have healing perks
- People want Altruism
- Some people have aura perks and want you to sit still and heal before you get yourself and others killed.
0 -
I use self-care a lot of the time, but if someone wants to heal me, I let them, because they will heal me faster and then we can both go do something else. Sometimes I even see people using med-kits and healing themselves, instead of letting others do it and I think "why not let them heal you and saved the med-kit for later, if needed?"
I use self-care to heal myself if no one is around to heal me or if they save me and run off, not wanting to heal me, which also happens.
0 -
False.
Anyone seems to think when a teammate heals you, he is investing his time on you... let me explain, if you selfcare, you "waste" 32 seconds, but if anyone else heals you, you are "wasting" 16 seconds of your time, PLUS, 16 seconds of time of someone else = 32 seconds again. A video for better understanding (sorry, spanish)
If you say "it's more efficient not to healing than selfcare", ok, we can talk, but if you want to heal in a match, don't say "it's more efficient someone heals you"
1 -
Self-Care is a necessity. People always say that people running SC are trash but I see the opposite. They care about the team. The amount of time it takes to run around the map and LOOK for a teammate where the killer can see you before FINALLY getting a chance to get healed, compared to just hiding and healing yourself without needing a teammate to come and find you or you looking for a medkit is so much better. You're effectively keeping your team on gens while you take care of yourself. I've lost matches because EVERYONE was hurt but me, and the killer kept slugging since no one could heal. SC is a teams' best friend. (Edit: added a , after me and; because it didn't make sense otherwise)
Post edited by AVoiceOfReason on1 -
Not to mention Self-Care takes away a perk slot that could be better spent on something else
0 -
Dude, finding a totem, cleanse it, find a locker, wait in locker, it's almost 32 seconds I guess.
0 -
It has been proven times and times again through maths that self care even by itself DOES NOT waste time.
16s of 2 people healing is 32 virtual seconds on generator repairs + the danger of being grouped up.
32s of self healing is 32 seconds of generator repairs also but everyone else is free to act.
What wastes time is people being mad at other people for using self care & standing next to a healing survivor literally doing nothing, begging for the chance to heal their teammate. Why are you waiting my dude, get on with your life, get on a generator or go for a save.
The only time where you gain actual time from being healed by someone is if somehow the killer knows where everyone is and is coming OR the healer has a healing build (We'll make it, botany, desperate measures or autodidact for example)
Self care is only ever a waste of time if you keep using it after every hit or if you go in the corner of the map to do it. Just like some people getting unhooked then running to a corner before letting someone touch them. Ridiculous.
4 -
For the longest time, I felt like the only person saying that SC does not lose generator time. I'm so pleased that people are finally starting to get it.
There are plenty of other reasons to argue against SC - but gen time is not one of them.
2 -
Not entirely self care by its self is meh because 32s heal but botany or despite measures makes it bearable and semi useful
I had a game were I won to self care trapper had one gate traped and was guarding the other one so just healed and ran
0 -
i usually find a totem when i spawn and i often find them naturally throughout the match
1 -
Self care is such a big time waster and what's worse is it literally takes away altruism from teamates so use it if no one is with you but as soon as someone is there and ready to help stop and let them finish it that way you can both start getting gens done faster and no one is forced to depip because of you not allowing healing.
Also inner strength is much better I realised recently self care on console took priority over pallet dropping and getting out of hatch so I now run inner strength as it's less time consuming and Nurses calling won't reveal you.
0 -
Because there's perks like We'll make it and Desperate measures that can heal you 8 times faster than Self-care and gets you back to Generators that much faster.
Don't get me wrong, if you're in a solo Q and you're not sure your teammates will heal you, that's fine. Self-care.
But I've had far too many games where we've lost because I've had a teammate off in a corner self-Caring instead of just getting someone to heal them and working on a generator. It is absolutely a waste of time. Especially if you have teammates that are hooked and you're just lolligagging.
My point being Self-care is not always the efficient way of healing
0 -
If you think using self care is fine and don't care about your teammates points or your wasting time...
THEN don't be mad when other survivors don't save you on hook when it's not in their interest to risk themselves to help you out.
All those survivors waiting at the gate to run out while you are stuck on the hook thinking "why is no one coming back to save me?"
The answer is simple... There are ME players (self-care) and there are WE players (BT).
0 -
If you self-care with sloppy butcher, and I offer to heal you but you refuse, I'm leaving you to die on hook.
0 -
I don't think it's wasting 16 seconds of your time plus 16 seconds of the healer. I see it more like: I'll heal you up faster than yourself and we both go to a gen that we fix faster because it's two of us on it.
1 -
Self Care is not a bad perk but if a teammate wants to heal you, let them do that. Not only they get altruism points for the emblem but if the killer manages to find you within 32 seconds then you can take another hit.
Also... don't be the guy with the mentality "go and do gens" I was a red rank once... never anymore. The game is unfun if you "go and do gens", the fun aspect is the chase and to interact with other teammates.
0 -
Autodidact works with skill checks. The firsts two ones will give you a penalty on healing but if you go onwards, you get a lot of benefit from a single skill check.
0 -
if there is already a mate being able to heal you, it would be better to let him. in efficiency, there is no problem at all, if two survivors heal for 16 seconds or one heals for 32 seconds is the same amount of gen time lost. if you plan to work on the same gen, it is even more efficient to selfcare, because the other guy doesn't get slowdown for coop gen work for that time.
the problem is, if you heal double the time, you give the killer a chance to find you again before you finish, making all the healing time wasted
1
