3-4 min gens (JuSt PrEsSuRe GeNs)
I mean to begin with we were able to a couple of months ago when Ruin + Undying was meta that actually allowed even the weaker killers to "Pressure Gens" but for some reason despite that being what survivors tell you to do they cried to have it nerfed (and it did)
let's be honest guys 3-4 minute matches are not fun and I can't see why they would be fun for anyone. No one wins, no one pips, the scores are insanely low (13k at best) and it just creates a really unfun experience. Killer being forced to tunnel camp which once again no one likes and theres just no gameplay to it you are better off as survivor just playing a cookie clicker or something as it's practically the exact same thing.
Remember when the devs spoke of that "Early Game Collapse" or something along those lines notice how theres been literally no mention of it for the past year? Early game can be really bad for killer we all know this. Taking time to set up, map size could be way too big so you travel to literally every gen and suddenly a gen pops.
Honestly ive said this before and ill say it again lets just take a breather on the whole "Nerf X Killer, Nerf X Killer thing" because lets face it guys if you know and understand this game no killer is OP right now they can barely compete in tournaments and the highest level.
I'd like to point out also that because of how quick and easy gen speed is that is why you personally are getting matched with so many boosted survivors who do not belong in Red ranks period. If you want what's best for the game and you want better teammates more has to be done to gens as they are just way too easy to finish over what the killer has to do. How can a killer get 12 hooks in 3-4 minutes?
Comments
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Does it happen often to you that you get Games which are done in 3-4 minutes?
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Does it matter how often this happens if its not your fault? When it would only happen when you screw up it would be ok. But it depends on the survivor. When you know that you only win bc survivor are bad, its frustrating.
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I would say having short games where the Killer clearly outclasses the Survivors is more common than a genrush squad of that caliber.
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What percentage of games where it’s over in say 7-8 minutes is acceptable to you? 10%, 25%, 50%?
your reply to OP didn’t really address anything he said. Instead, you framed it around asking how often it happens to him. It’s not just him as we have countless posts about that very topic. So we can easily chalk it up to “op just played bad” or that person “just didn’t pressure gens” I guess. Nah, that’s lazy.
there is a fundamental issue with time in this game. It’s the reason so many matches wind up with 4K or 3-4 escape in under 10 minutes. There’s not a lot of middle ground for either side. The pacing of the game is simply too fast. Rush gens or 4slug are the options players have atm. Trying to do something else results in a rapid loss of momentum and a quick end to the match.
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How do you know it is not OPs fault? If it happens regularly to them, they might not be as good as they think they are.
You can win games as Killer without going for 4 man slugs. You can also win games as Survivor without "genrush" (which I consider as letting people die on Hooks to push out Gens, no matter what).
3-4 minute games are very rare, if that is happening frequently, the Killer player is pretty bad. Even in my worst games I remember, I did not have games like this, and I had games which are in my mind where I got 4 Hooks in the end or where I overcommitted so hard, because I was stubborn. And those games did not end that fast.
I do agree on the Snowball aspect tho, most results are probably 4Ks or 4 man escapes, since either the Killer is not able to apply enough pressure or the Survivors get stomped, and once they reach the point of 4 gens done, nobody dead (and no 3-gen) or 1 Survivor dead before enough Gens are done, the game is basically over, as long as there is no huge skill gap between the two sides.
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Loads into Mothers Dwelling as Myers...."JuSt PrEsSuRE GeNs"
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Survivor queues take longer than the matches and people still try to blame killers for not being skilled enough.
When there is a simple issue of gens going to fast. Applying pressure worked with Undying Ruin. But survivors didn't enjoy that and here we are.
How much longer do survivor queues need to get, before someone will admit that killer isn't fun with those gen speeds?
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And? When survivor are bad, they obviously lose. I know as solo survivor how bad some red ranks are.
And i wouldnt call it genrush. They just do gens, bc its the only objective. The other survivors who decide to ignore gens are the problem. The balance shouldnt be for them.
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how do I know if it’s the op fault or not? I don’t care about this 1 example. It doesn’t matter if this 1 example is the op, matchmaking, the survivors he faced, or divine intervention.
this is not an isolated incident. Thais happens frequently. Like I said, the pacing of the game with how it is currently designed coupled with the $&@/!? matchmaking is the underlying problem.
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And when Killers are bad, they obviously lose. And some Killers in Red Ranks are horrible.
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If it happens often, it is more likely to be their fault.
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I dont talk about the op. I dont know what happened in theur matches. There are enough killer who complain bc they are bad and dont realize it.
I talk about my experience. This matches are rare. But they make it obvious for me that i only win in other matches bc survivor dont focus gens.
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So following your logic, i´m the reason (red rank solo survivor) for the countless killers that get gen rushed while playing against me.
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You are absolutely right on a case by case basis assuming matchmaking put him up against similarly skilled survivors
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It does matter how often it happens and the fact that you say "You don't care about this 1 example" just shows your ignorance. The fact of the matter is, most killers aren't as good as they think they are and refuse to put the practice in. Killer isn't something you can just pick up and master with 100 hours.
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their = OP.
I play games long enough to know that players like to blame everything but themselves on their losses.
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Only potato head survivors will be preassured away by killer's terro radius while killer is not really coming to him. The only way to preassure gens is hooking survivors
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You clearly didn’t read my entire message. I never said something akin to “buff killer survivor op”. I made the case that neither side has time. Thanks for your input to the topic though. Very enlightening
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And should those other short games also not be avoided?
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This on the other hand is a matchmaking-problem. But I am assuming that the Matchmaking is working in those cases, if not, then it is the Matchmakings fault. Ranks do not really matter anymore, but in general, a Red Rank will be better than a green Rank (or at least it should be like this).
Obviously, if a Killer is matched constantly with higher ranked Survivors, this is something which should not happen.
(But, from my experience, if that happens, most of the time other Survivors are far below the Killers Rank. e.g. yesterday I went against a Bubba who was Rank 8, with my SWF-Mate (both Rank 1) and two Console-Survivors (I would assume SWF as well), who were Rank 13 and 16... And while the Killer should not go against us, they should also not go against the yellow Ranks, but IMO that evens it out to an extend, because they have two Survivors to capitalize on)
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Yh but thats not the point of this discussion.
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It is though. It's like trying to win an argument without addressing the other side's points.
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Are they really 3-4 minute games? because people tend to miss-gauge how long trials last, especially Killers, they are usually longer than what you feel.
If they are really that short and you are having a lot of them either you must be the unluckiest person in the comunity (genrush squads are not THAT common, I may get 1 every 20 games), you are playing with an extremely busted build (you cant expect to win easily using something lke Monstrous+Beast of Prey+Mad Grit+Distressing) or you are not very good, climbed the ranks by stomping Solo queue potatos and now you have to face the veterans and must relearn the game.
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Ok, then how do they stay in red ranks? And i say this as a purple rank killer that gets put in and stays in red rank hell.
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I started to count the hooks. Usually 3 gens are done by the first hook. All gens done by the third hook.
The hook counter really helps with that.
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By stomping Solo queue potatos, a Solo queue team with 1 potato is already at a huge disadvantage and rarely that game ends well for Survivors, best scenario the Killer gets "only" 2K. Also is not that hard to black pip as a Killer.
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So again, when those killers i play against all lose. Is it:
- because they are all bad
- because i´m so good (lol)
- because the gen speeds are off
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I totally agree with this. I think when the shrinking of the maps and the speeding up of gens has caused a big issue with the speed of games. If gen speeds were slowed down and maps made larger, then there would be more room for errors on both sides and games would take longer. The margin of error on both sides is way to small, which leads to insta 4ks or Killers having to sweat by keeping pressure on gens. There is no down time for players to get themselves re-organized, it's just frenetic game play the entire time.
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Ok. So it's my fault I have one good match where I 2 pip because the survivors suck and therefore I deserve 7 or 8 matches where I get my ass beat or have to scrape and crawl just to get 4 bbq stacks? K.
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Generator speeds aren't the problem. The problem is that most killers lack early game pressure. Survivors can split up early game, and work on multiple generators and spread out across the map working on gens with zero pressure on them. At which point, there's not much the killer can do. Killers have no idea where survivors spawned in, and can only really take an educated guess. Especially on a map like Red Forest. Gen speeds are fine. The lack of early game pressure available to killers is not.
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“Honestly ive said this before and ill say it again lets just take a breather on the whole "Nerf X Killer, Nerf X Killer thing" because lets face it guys if you know and understand this game no killer is OP right now they can barely compete in tournaments and the highest level.”
Had anyone tried the “you cant use tournament balance” yet?
If killers aren’t balance for tournaments then they aren’t balanced period. That balance trickles down to casual play too.
The thing is though this is what they want. They want to win everygame. The game is full of toxic swf tbagging and flashlight clicking and haddonfield offerings and these people want a 100% guaranteed chance of survival. Unless you’re an 8000 hour pro then chances are you aren’t gonna be beating these groups with anyone other than a top tier killer. Trapper sure as hell isn’t doing it.
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Yes, but should a player really have 3-4 minute matches just cause they are not that experienced? In those kind of matches you barely are able to learn anything.
Ideally matches should never be shorter then 5 minutes. Doesn't matter how good or bad you are. And that counts for killer and survivor.
I have no clue what the solution is to make this happen if there even is a solution. But the game would be so much better if extremly short matches just didn't exist period.
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I myself have made that "just pressure gens" statement before but the more I play killer the more I understand where you're coming from. When you're playing against a very well coordinated SWF it's a huge disadvantage to the killer and they can communicate. A lot of the times you could be chasing someone and the other 3 teammates could be working on 3 seperate gens and there's nothing the killer can do about it.
I don't know if I see gen speeds being addressed because there are a lot of gen slow down perks, but I don't feel like killers should have to stack them to help them win games but sometimes they're forced too.
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I'll never fault survivors for doing their sole objective but I've been in matches where survivors were hard focusing on gens and not being altruistic. I don't know why survivors are in a hurry to leave the game. Like when I'm playing survivor, I'll do a gen and maybe go heal someone and do a totem. Then go do another gen.
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Quick and easy gen timing are you taking be piss?? 😂 swear it feels like I'm fixing a gen for 5 minutes at a time !! I don't think the gen time could possibly go any slower if it tried. 🤔😂
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Lot of people underestimate the length of a match. Last time someone complained about a "5 minute gen rush" I actually had the match recorded and it was a bit more than 11 minutes. Dude caught someone at 5 gens then proceeded to facecamp for several minutes.
This was in a full red lobby btw. It was a wraith, ruin+undying (before rework) up the whole time. Poor guy who got caught had kindred and wraith never cloaked while he was near.
At that point, I don't think it's the game's fault.
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No reason to leave the gen until they are nearly second phase. good swf teams don't save until they need to.
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80% of the time when that's the case I'll go to second phase right as i'm being unhooked. Makes me not wanna save that person after. Which I know sounds ignorant but you have to be better.
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That's why I play Forever freddy :> (even tho it's quite boring but I don't want to get gen rushed)
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I believe the only reason we still don't have an "Early Game Collapse" is the existence of Corrupt. Tx Plague.
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Ideally it should not happen, this is true. But you cannot hand hold everyone, if someone has still problems playing Killer, they should really consider to git gud. Killer got so much easier, IMO it is a little bit too easy now.
And you will always have people asking for more and more.
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I dont think it is needed anymore.
Also, I guess it is a pain in the ass to balance. Something which might just help a Killer like Trapper can be completely out of place on Spirit. DBD in general is hard to balance, because you have so different strength Levels on Killers, so buffing Killers in general might be alright and good for some, but way too much for others.
(And well, the existence of Corrupt Intervention is another point, and IMO it is always worth a Perk Slot)
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It sounds like you’re trying to say you need hex plus undying to have a match longer than 3-4 mins. This is just simply not true and if that’s where your skill level is at against non potato survivors, you just need to get better. There are amazing survivors on this game but the vast majority of even red ranks are basically potatoes compared to a true skilled player who can actually hold a killer for a full generator or 2 consistently at the start of the game. I play A LOT of solo que and that is hands down the most difficult way to play this game, you have very little control over whether you get out because your team mates might all be crouching around self caring. As either a killer or survivor, you are not entitled to a win. 4 good survivors should absolutely have a higher chance of winning against an equally skilled killer, simply because you need 5 people to play and 4 are survivors. Make this game too difficult for solo survivor and the game will die very quickly, which BVHR understands well.
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From the Survivor's perspective, pressuring gens is not possible unless the team has weak links that stay put until found at gens. The killer needs an immediate chase and any down time searching for a survivor is in the team's favor.
Yeah, killers have reveal perks to help, but they all have conditions and built in counter windows. Having things like bbq or thrilling tremors doesn't ensure getting another chase right after downing someone.
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Depends on your region and the survivor pool you get placed with 🙄
Just watch streamers and you see some get a mass of potatoes that run into them because they stand still for 2 seconds at shack corner and others get depip squads and 4 man coms trying to snipe and bully them.
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I got told by a survivor that I was not very good for my rank the other day. A survivor that not only did I kill but only 1 escaped by hatch. My top killers all hit P3 level 50 so at the current moment I am on a 6 killer rotation with killers that I don't have hardly any experience with but I got lucky and got BBQ on them so it's there time to be leveled. My top killers are pig, fred, huntress, and bubba and there all out of my rotation. i am now learning/using Doc, Myers, Clown, Demo, Plague, and Legion. All around level 30 with less than 3 purple perks (not good ones for most part). You really don't know the circumstances of the person you are playing just because there rank is this does not mean you are getting there best game. Survivor or killer.
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Its not your fault but the solution is not handing over games because you got boosted up to a rank, you got lucky with bad Survivors now you have to get unlucky or get better, you cant expect to reach a point where you cant stomp anymore and the game to be changed to suit you.
I do acknowledge that at the sweatest of levels, the highest 0,1% may be imbalanced towards SWFs but I really doubt anyone in this thread is in that bracket so either you adapt and get better or you get sent to your proper rank, hopefully MMR will solve this.
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Really? Killer is to easy now? That explains why everyone wants to play killer and killers have 10 minute queues!
Oh wait...
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I agree with you and I think that the real problem that causes is the map sizes. Maps should be smaller and more easier to patrol so that there should be real pressure.
Other than that the 3-4 toolboxes team with Brand-New addon + Prove Thyself also problematic and can be broken the balance and there needs some works to that add-ons. They are I think as bad as previous Ebony Mori which is not fun. Also ranks should be more balanced and I know that BHVR decided to do something about it which is nice and I just hope it will be balanced cause especially for my region at night times ranks are really unbalanced. I know ranks are not everything but there are reasons for rank system and at night games it is not working properly.
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It really is not easy unless matchmaking blesses you with constant potatoes.
When the MMR got added in even some of the top killer players were complaining that the games balance was totally wack. 4 mans with map offerings, DS UB, etc. The only killers that really stood a chance were spirit and nurse and maybe some of the top blight mains.
I do agree that very very very few games should end in 3-4 minutes, but 5-6 minute games which still give killers no chance are entirely possible and can be easily recreated by getting a 4 man SWF. This is disregarding killer skill aside from maybe the top spirits and nurses, which will still do bad due to horrible perk and map balancing.
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