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Possible Fix Suggestion for SWF
Most people do not have fun playing against SWF, mainly because SWF have a significant advantage over killers than any other survivors because they have communication on their side. Even when I play with my friends & we try to sandbag each other, we are still getting massive information from what the other says about the killer. So, I want to suggest a buff to the killer side that would help negate the sharing of information these survivors have.
What I want is a small buff to the killer side when survivors decide to team up, like some sort of extra offering. The buff shouldn't be overwhelming, just something to counter the amount of information being shared.
If a SWF is a group of 2: the killer gains a 4% buff to Picking-up, Dropping, Pallet breaking, Breakable-Wall breaking, Generator damaging, Vaulting speeds & a 2% movement speed boost
If a SWF is a group of 3: the killer gains a 8% buff to Picking-up, Dropping, Pallet breaking, Breakable-Wall breaking, Generator damaging, Vaulting speeds & a 4% movement speed boost
If a SWF is a group of 4: the killer gains a 12% buff to Picking-up, Dropping, Pallet breaking, Breakable-Wall breaking, Generator damaging, Vaulting speeds & a 6% movement speed boost
I'm suggesting these buffs for the Killer because being able to recover from attacks & breaking things can add up, giving the killer just enough to continue being a threat.
Now, I'm not saying that my numbers are the end all, be all solution (I'm not a developer & wouldn't know the ramifications of making small changes like this to the overall balance); I just want a buff in place to make things fair & that doesn't break the game. I also believe that the killer should have the option to disable this buff on their lobby screen, in case they want a more difficult challenge (there are killers out there that can handle good SWF groups & may enjoy the challenge).
I've seen other posts regarding buffing the killer, but I think they may be too overpowered. I want something that seems insignificant if the SWF is a group of 2, somewhat noticeable for a group of 3, & makes the killer FEEL different for a group of 4.
EDIT: I realized I mis-spoke about the Haste effect, thinking that it didn't affect movement speed. It actually does, my mistake. So I replaced the "Haste" with wording that I was hoping to convey.
Comments
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And you want too a nerf for killers when they play against solos?
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6% movement speed is actually quite big especially on certain killers. Huntress moves at like 80% while charging a hatchet and that would make her close to survivors speed for example
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I think this is just putting a band-aid on the problem
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No, this is not a good solution. And also, aren't Haste and movement speed the same thing???
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You should not touch killers stats because solos will be having a hard time when playing with 3-2 stacks. Nerf survivors for playing together instead, Like 5% gen progression penalty for each member etc so solos are not affected
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This is not good because there are groups which are playing together and does not do comms(Maybe few but they exist). Giving killer the haste and movement speed can broke the balance. Fixing the problem can be turn into another unbalancing. For SWF sadly none of the game can put up a real solution. In any online game there are groups that will use comms and I know in this game stealth is quite important but people will abuse 3rd party softwares and there are some which they dont but most of them will do. For now the best thing you can do is if you suspect that you are againts SWF you can always dodge the lobby.
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This is the worst suggestion I've ever seen to fixing SWF.
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...But Solos are affected because they would have teammates who repair slower.
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If a 'fix' was to be made to swf I would say only focus on the full 4 man team. 3 and 2 there is no point and they are not an issue.
I always thought it would be nice if 4 man swf was its own game mode and the killer playing that mode would get an extra something something.
"But no killer would play that mode."
What if:
- Killer gets Extra blood points just for playing the mode.
- 1 extra gen needs to be completed or the time to complete a gen is increased.
- Killer has a 5th perk slot.
Those are just suggestions but you get my point.
Ultimately swf isn't really a big deal. What the real issue is the rank disparity between swf and the killer. I'm a green rank killer at best and I just play for fun, yet Im going against red ranks and their 1 brown rank smurf friend. Those games are painful since of course they are better then me -eye roll- They are skilled players and that are communicating and synergizing their perks and add-ons. The crap part is they are getting lower rank killers like me just to bully instead of going against their red killer counterparts.
(We need a better rank system).
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Ok great and i propose then, to balance this, that a soloQ survivor get a 10% movement speed increase :).
You guys are so bad at the game that you need buffs... omg this community... the level here is exactly the same than the one we see in top youtube videos...
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Struggling to cope with this one 😂😂 this is the most ridiculous idea I've ever read if I'm honest.
Most of the killers move 80mph as it is! The nurse, the spirit and sodding wraith that can be invisible 9 times outta 10. The shape on phase 3... Freddie, huntress and the way she launches her hatchet. Seriously this is what the funs all about. "Play with your friends, but don't communicate"
Seriously if this was ever to be put in place for communication levels, I'd be uninstalling it. It just wouldn't be the same playing without having a natter.
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My suggestion was, if you really want to give the killer a speed boost against a SWF, give them different levels of Bloodlust when they initiate chase with the SWF members depending on how big it is.
That way, they get a definitive advantage against the SWF but don't completely screw over the potential solo players for existing in the wrong game.
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That's the point. Voice comms provide huge advantage so solos have higher chance to win by playing with swf right now
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SWF or not SWF must not affect the game mechanics. Not all SWFs are using comms and some SWFs are not that hard to play against.
It depends. If you really want a speed boost -- use play with your food + nemesis + noed.
I would definitely agree if they add an additional reward for the killer playing SWF after the match and indicate "friends" in the lobby, so the killer would know whom they are playing against.
This MMR change when you cannot switch the killer is a huge disadvantage. For instance, I would definitely switch killer to the one I main when I smell a SWF team in the lobby.
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No, they should not nerf SWF. The way you fix this is by making it so that solos have a way to communicate. I personally like the idea of a conditional ping type system. Give solo survivors more information and ways to communicate. Then you buff killers to compensate for that new information.
You need to bridge the gap of SWF and solo by buffing solos and killers, not by nerfing SWF.
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So you want Solos to be affected as well, despite saying something different.
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If you mean i want to nerf swf which will make solos expirience playing with them closer to a 4 solo expirience then yes, sure. I want that
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So, a Solo who is playing with a 3 man SWF (which he has no control over) should have to play with teammates who repair at 85% Speed? Yeah, sounds great. /s
Lets punish Solos who play with SWFs...
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I like this idea better. Bloodlust takes a bit of time to pop in, so you've got to work for the extra speed still, and it would still be a chase, just one that gives less time for the swf to benefit fully.
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So you completely ignore the fact SWF is strong as hell and voice comms are op and even solos playing with them have huge advantage and focus on bad side (which makes games blanced)? Some people man...
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Playing in an SWF does not have so much impact that you need to punish the players for playing with friends. This is what most of the SWFs are - just friends playing together.
And even less Solos should be punished, just because they are matched with SWFs.
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And you're ignoring the fact that the solo has no idea what's going on. They can't communicate. They're likely getting thrown under the bus by the swf because friends take priority over randoms. They might be playing with a swf, but they're still on their own, and now with hindered teammates.. This is just further screwing solos over.
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I am playing enough solo with SWFs as teammates that I can say not all SWF are strong, many are even a burden rather than help without any penalties. SWF doesn't mean they're good players, and being able to tell the others "the killer is on me, do gens" is worthless if the player goes down before he could finish the sentence, which is a lot of SWF players. If SWF groups get any penalties, I don't think that's ok, but if it has to be, then I want an option to opt out of being matched with SWF groups.
SWF is good if they're good players, but four really good solo players are not that far behind. The current ranking/matchmaking does just rarely put the right solo survivors together.
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This game needs a buff for solo q (comms), after that they can be given a second mandatory objective they need to complete in order to begin gen repair. Giving killer haste will make solos even worse than it already is
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Fix for SWF:
Buff Solo
Buff Killers to compensate
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My suggestion would be:
For every survivor in SWF team -- reduce the number of hooks required to sacrifice to the Entity by 1:
2 Survivors SWF: 2 hooks
3 Survivors SWF: 1 hook
4 Survivors SWF: A random survivor dies at the beginning of the match. then see "3 Survivors SWF" above
The hook penalty also applies to solo players. Because, who cares?
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I think they just need to look at second chance perk stacking (4 people with UB/DS/DH/BT is ridiculously difficult to deal with) and notify the killer that they're facing a SWF in the lobby so they can at least decide whether to be sweaty or not for the game.
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I agree with this. Limiting a 3-4 stack swf to only 1 second chance perk each would go a long way.
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Notifying the Killer that they are facing a SWF is and always has been a horrible idea.
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Put voice comms in the game, make them range dependent and let the killer hear it as well (but not speak, because that gets weird, at least it did inF13) then make it so that the game takes over audio in and out when running, so team speak/ventrillo/discord/skype/etc can't be used.
Is that possible? I'm not sure, I know it can be done on console at least and I think it's worth considering, because at that point the only advantage swf will have is in people knowing they have friends they can rely on to do objectives.
Will people of the extra sweaty variety find a way around it? Probably, but not in nearly the numbers we see now.
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I like the extra gen idea, actually. Maybe that would be enough by itself -- if there are 2 people in SWF, play as normal. If there are 3, do 6 gens. If there are 4, do all the gens.
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How so? Imo, that change would make the killer experience way better as it would at least be a good indicator to if they have access to voice chat and that your match will be harder so that you can at least have some expectations as to what you're playing against. And it may even change the common killer's perception of SWF if most SWF games end up just feeling like regular games.
Of course there is the downside that you'll have some killers that go around lobby dodging to hunt solo lobbies but people are doing that right now anyway.
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haste and movement speed are the same thing.
so your saying if a swf is in a 4 man the killer should be an 18% movement speed? i hope you understand how op that would actually be.
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That was my mistake. I thought Haste affected everything except movement speed. I was clearly wrong about that. Thanks for catching it!
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Cannot be done on Xbox, as the party chat is entirely separate from any game being played. Could even be playing different games. And i believe Microsoft mandated any game they accept cannot interfere with the party chats in any way. Devs can't do squat even if they wanted to.
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How to improve Killer vs swf:
Solo: 100% BP
2men: 150% BP
3men: 200% BP
2 x2men: 250% BP
4men: 300% BP
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As a killer I don't have problems with SWFs - I don't think anything needs "fixed." I have had my butt handed to me by SWFs and non-SWFs alike. I have also 4k'd plenty of SWFs just as easily as I have non-SWFs. I actually find SWFs easier to read than solo survivors - and they are easier to exploit when it comes to altruism. Think of it this way:
4 randoms are more apt to let someone get into phase 2 or even die on a hook - than a group of friends who are trying to make sure they all do well.
SWFs tend to take more protection hits - which allows me to create even more pressure since more people are injured needlessly.
Not that I run NOED - but I can tell you from my solo survivor gameplay - if NOED is used - I am out! I am not running around looking for that one totem to go save some random person - sorry not happening, but if it is a friend I am playing with - I will try my best to save them.
I think some killers look at SWFs and think WAY too highly of them - I find them much easier to exploit than a group of randoms who are looking out for themselves. I think all too often some killers look for something to blame for their not getting the number of kills their ego needs - and SWFs are an easy culprit to pin that on - whether it is even a SWF or not.
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they are not going to nerf their bread and butter.
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I'd rather bring solo players up to SWF level.
- Allow survivors to see each others perks in the lobby, so they know the capabilities of their team mates.
- Provide buttons for preset, map wide communication. So hit a button to display "Killer is here", "Coast is clear", "Help me, or "Leave me" next to your player portrait.
Give solo's the tools to coordinate half as good as a SWF, brings all survivors up to a higher level, which then makes room for some minor balancing tweaks like reducing gen speeds.
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This isn't possible. I SWF with friends on a range of platforms, and we all have to use Discord because we're not all on PSN. In addition, console players in this scenario have to use a second device to run Discord (and two sets of headphones, in ear and over ear) so how would you police that?
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Doing all the gens would literally be impossible.
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By bread and butter - you mean players bringing their friends to the game. Novel idea - people enjoy playing games with their friends. Imagine a game that wants more players to come play with people they know thus increasing their revenue. While I rarely play in SWF when I play survivor - I would play less if that were not an option. Imagine trying to villainize a game company for providing the ability to play with your friends - damn you Overwatch, Valheim, Rocket League etc etc etc.
What I find hilarious is the vitriol and hyperbole associated with SWFs by select forum posters. I have seen MANY SWFs decimated by killers, but if you read these salty posts you would think SWFs are nigh beatable. As a killer main I find these posts hilarious as I have no problems with SWFs and actually find them easier to exploit than 4 random players of comparable "skill."
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This is actually bad because SWF just use discord so they would get the benefit of the communication without the downside.
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I don't think it would be impossible. I just think you'd have to change the way you play... which you could, if you were a 4-man SWF, because you'd be able to coordinate who's doing what.
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You have one gen left to do.
It's the only gen left to do.
Where is the Killer?
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You need to time it so you never have one left by itself.
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...which is impossible.
Do you realise what Killers do?
The game displays how many generators need to be completed. If the Killer sees a by '7' in the corner, not only do they immediately know it's a 4 man SWF, but they'll also know to camp one gen so they can't escape.
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I think some Streamer already suggusted it. Two SWF give them a progression minus 10 %, ">2 SWF ruin like degression without there being a totem. I think there should be a separeted ranked Mode for them.
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i like this idea.
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They are the villain in this game until the devs see the issue adding it caused and start to balance the game accordingly. They did not plan for it. they added it after survivors destroyed match making by constantly backing out and joining to cheat on discord.
Yes it made the game more popular and at the same time made them more money because the whole group, hive mind, sheep thing encourage each other to buy cosmetics. We are seeing the results of this decision now with longer queue times and less killers.
I have looked at some swf profiles that don't even have the 100 kills achievement and they feel they have a right to tell me how to play killer, while fearing to play the role themselves because they don't want hate on their profile, or to be featured in some stupid "baby killer" montage.
They are the main culprit for every problem in this game. It isn't their fault, its the developers.
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