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Stop acting like SWF is unbeatable
I see a lot of posts in the is forum complaint about swf and how there unbeatable which is absolutely not true.
From my experience, the average swf is more then beatable. it’s those tournament level deathsquads that can be classified as almost unbeatable. Am i saying dbd is not survivor sided? No, dbd is survivor sided but a lot of people have a tendency to blame swf for there loss as killer when in fact 99% of the time it’s actually just human error in the killers behalf.
If anything, what should be taken account into dbd is map. I would rather verse a top level swf on dead dawg saloon (very killer sided map) then verse a average swf on mother’s dwelling (very survivor sided). why? because map has a lot more of an input in the games output then any other factor.
TL;DR The reason most killers loose to swf is error on the killers behalf more then it is good survivors, yes you can get good survivors every bit the chance of you getting put with deathsquads it’s very low.
Same logic can also apply to survivor, you didn’t loose because the killer tunneled and camped, you lost because you as a survivor made mistakes and wrong decisions.
end of my ted talk.
Comments
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SWFs are not unbeatable
But they stack the deck so badly against you that they can be damn close to it if the SWF group is even remotely competent
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It's not unbeatable but it's certainly not in the killer's favor.
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Idk why people say dead dawg is killer sided, there’s usually 3-4 completely free generators to do and it has bushes that could swallow entire continents near the unsafe ones. Survivors send me to it all the time.
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i disagree. i think dbd is actually fairly balanced, def not as bad as people say.
Killer is just harder to play.
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not only is it killer sided, i’d also be willing to say it’s the most killer sided map in the game.
- Very small map
- Easy to pressure
- Gens are very close together
- good loops have a breakable wall making then trash
- shack turns into a long wall window
- whole outskirts of the map is deadzone
- back of the map behind gallows is all deadzone
- most pallets arnt actually good
i disagree with 3-4 generators. the only free gen is the one in main.
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maybe not unbeatable but swf are cheaters. telling everything i do is tecnically cheating. kindred can do the same, but the others doesn't know, only you. so yeah, they are a pain, especially when they all have the meta #########.
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If a SWF makes zero mistakes for a killer to capitalize on, the match is extremely difficult to win. As killer you depend on the survivors making mistakes, especially if it is a SWF.
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I disagree that the game is balanced. The game has improved but against a swf that is making zero mistakes. The killer will always be out played. The killer is suppose to be the power role because it's 4v1. Right now the killer is only the power role if the survivor's make mistakes for him to capitalize on. If both sides play optimally the killer will lose.
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Nobody said it's unbeatable. A good Nurse or spirit can totally win against them.
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you haven't get a good team in there.
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Main building is free and also a ridiculously strong loop. The gallows one is free. Any that spawn on the upper stories of the houses are free, which is usually 1-2. There’s plenty of places to hide and the loops are usually super safe unless you waste a ton of time kicking the 20 breakable walls.
Especially if you are being sent to it, usually a few survivors will bring balanced which turns the main building into like 50-60 second chase to get a single M1 and makes the gallows gens / upstairs gens ultra safe. I loathe the map as killer if the survivors are all hugging the main building which they probably will be.
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Shouldn't a SWF that plays that well be difficult to beat?
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okay well here’s my solution.
- 1 don’t loop main, let them have that gen.
- if your chasing someone for 60 seconds then your overcommitting to your chases and that is human error on your behalf. a good killer won’t overcommit that long
- the about 10 breakable walls not 20, not only that only 2/6 of them at main need to be kicked.
- Gallows gen is a free m1, it’s not a safe gen to work on. if your a killer like billy or bubba it can potentially be a free down aswell. (exception of balanced landing)
- the gen at the back of the map, gallows, middle of street, second middle of street (sometimes spans), next to the sherif office and outside of main are super unsafe gens.
your underestimating how good this map is for killers. even otz & fungoose put it as the most killer sided map in dbd.
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I can't believe a fellow pig main, just spouted this filth at me.
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i have 3 issues with what you just said.
Firstly, No SWF plays 100% perfectly, Even deathsquads will make some sort of mistake. There is no such thing as a 100% perfect swf that makes no mistakes, there will always be a mistake.
Secondly, part of the killers job is to force mistakes which comes with applying pressure. Forcing altruism ect is one of the 200 ways of forcing mistakes.
Thirdly, let’s say a swf is really good and don’t make mistakes, then there gonna win. i swf that good should be difficult to win, it would be like playing cod at level 1 going ups against prestige masters. It’s as simple as there better then you and out of your league. a mediocre killer won’t beat top level players.
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Unfortunately i am a billy main that believes that pig is truly pog.
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...
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SWF doesn't always mean an ez win for them, but it can be pretty hopeless depending on a bunch of things like maps, items, perks, how many people there are in the SWF, your perks, your killer, your perks, and your addons.
It is definitely in the SWF's favor if you are a mid-tier killer and they are all stacking the same meta perks.
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gens and chests needs to be more randomized so even SWF will have a hard time guessing
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either SWF gets nerfed or killers get buffed to match SWF
otherwise killers are going to start quitting
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There’s usually 3 gens within easy reach of the main building....more with balanced landing.
The only really unsafe one is out back in the bushes, and maybe out back near the water mill if you don’t know how to run that loop. The slew of side buildings are pretty safe unless the killer breaks all the walls. Shack is still relatively safe or can at least buy you some time.
“Just leave any chase if they go to the main building” is like telling me “just leave any chase if the survivor gets to an infinite window” which is what people said back when they existed.
What do you do when 3/4 survivors are beelining for it; or if they are smart and save the gens near the main for last? Or they can just do them first if there is a key in play.
And no I don’t care what streamers opinions on it are, I have my own and a similar amount of in game hours as them. Survivors usually don’t send themselves to bad maps and I get sent to dead dawg all the time.
Top 5 I get sent to is like Haddo, Badham, Coldwind, Dead Dawg, Ormond. With the occasional Red Forest or Game.
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Swf is not impossible when they are below the killer player's skill.
A 4man solo team can best the killer if they are playing optimally.
The problem with swf is they have the capabilities of that optimal 4man solo team but now have the added benefit of wireless communication exposing all of the killers tactics and movement. This minimizes or almost completely eliminates the mistakes and confusion a killer is meant to capitalize on.
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It’s not.
I actually like going against SWF because solo queue survivors are too easy for me.
You are right about one thing, people over exaggerate the strength of SWF , because many times they overlook their own lack of skill and knowledge needed to face SWF or any competent survivors.
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Unbeatable, No. However the game should just add Optional voice chat, and balance around it. BHVR needs to quit acting like Discord, XB Party, PS Party doesn't exist. With optional, if you want it awesome, you got it, if you don't, hit mute simple. For the killer, then you know every match is a swf, and the game can be balanced around it.
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if there going to main just to loop then there clearly not doing anything objective wise meaning you have a lot of gen pressure. if 3 survivors are going there then that’s 3 people not doing anything lmao
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Cheating? You do realize there is an OFFICIAL DBD Discord that promotes voice comms use right? Not sure how if BHVR supports such behavior how you consider it cheating. Just because it is not in the game - BHVR does support and encourage comm use via their own official Discord.
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I don't see anyone calling SWF unbeatable but I can definitely say going against a SWF isn't fun 90% of the time.
The amount of information they get for free while running efficient perk setups is unfair. The fact they call out totem spots, killer location, gen locations...it's like having 4 rainbow maps for free. The only saving grace is that some SWF's either meme around too much or are way too altruistic.
A weird comparison but SWF is basically just nurse; the game wasn't made nor changed to be able accommodate it and so it breaks a lot of the rules put in place and sucks all of the fun out of the other side's game.
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Most of the SWF's that I've been up against either meme around too much, tea-bag at dropped pallets instead of gaining distance in a chase, bodyblock me for free hits or simply unhook right in front of me.
In my experience, they hand me free kills, which is always a plus.
But I've never had an actual coordinated and good 4 person SWF squad.
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SWF is just as beatable as headphones mother-daughters ring spirit on full tryhard mode against solos.
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If one side is harder to play than the other then that is the absolute definition of unbalanced.
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It's circumstantial whether a SWF can be defeated or not.
-Are all four of them very competent?
-Are they on comms? Or just four randoms grouping together from a previous game?
-Are they running meta perks?
-Do they have a survivor sided map?
-What killer are you playing?
-What perks do you have as a Killer?
-How good are you at killer?
All of these factors come together for the result. Take a Spirit or Nurse who barely make ant mistakes. Of COURSE they'll beat the SWF, but take an average trapper? He'll get bullied easily.
It's so dependent on different things that SWF can go from unbeatable to easily dealt with.
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Ahem
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Nobody means 'the average SWF' when talking about how strong SWFs are.
SWF gives the survivors an advantage, greater coordination. What they do with that coordination is up to them, it's a matter of individual skill, team synergy, and experience in general.
So for the 'average SWF' they will performed averagely, but with a slight edge in the form of communication.
However for experienced, skilled survivors in a well-oiled team, that edge can be used to it's full extent, and give them a HUGE advantage against most killers.
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Not really? At least not in a situation like this, as it's not so simple. Both roles are simple in their own way and have their own complexities. Obviously you're not going to be a god looper just from picking up the controller and hopping into a Survivor game because 'Survivor is just easy-peasy mode'.
I think you're forgetting that this is a 1v4 game, and because of that the 1 (The Killer) is going to often feel like things are harder for them. And for good reason. Your playing against a team. If you make a mistake as a Survivor, your teammates can help you make up for it- as that's a part of the point of playing Survivor, is the teamwork. If you make a mistake as a Killer, unless you catch it and correct it yourself, there's no one to help you. You messed up, and if you can't help yourself, then that's it. It's just the nature of the game. I don't think that means that Killers and Survivors should be mean or nasty towards each other, or that Killer is underpowered (Because they're usually not if you're good unless you are against one of the five tournament-level teams, in which case, yes Killer is underpowered, and obviously some struggle more then others and need help overall.) But it does mean that Killer will probably always feel harder in comparison. Doesn't mean it's unbalanced or bad. And let's be real here- compare DBD now to DBD at launch, or even just a year or two ago, and it's a great time to be a killer player.
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SWF is not going to get better. In fact, I believe it’s going to get a lot worse. Whenever I play killer I at least get two SWF and so on. It’s becoming more and more common. So solo q won’t really be solo much longer. I don’t hate SWF per say. But with comms that’s a different story. However survivor mains are the sugar for the devs. They spend their cash on the cosmetics so they aren’t going to hinder SWF cause it will affect their wallet. Killers are leaving en mass and forcing newer killers to go up against red rank SWF, thus forcing more and more killers to leave. I’m honestly excited when the day comes that matches with bots become the norm and the devs have a real problem on their hands.
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They're not unbeatable at all, but if you get a really good cordinated team then it will be hard to beat them. Also you really gotta love those teams that go full tryhard, and just bring second chance perks stacked on their entire team.
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isn't the killer suppose to have the advantage?
So why are swf given the advantage?
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Although I agree, it always seems to be SWF that have the greatest potential for things to wildly, rapidly swing to a snowball for the killer because of the survivors reliable, predictable altruism.
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"I see a lot of posts in the is forum complaint about swf and how there unbeatable which is absolutely not true."
There is probably a name for what you are doing here other then lying but I care not to look it up.
Where you say you see a "lot of posts" im going to say that "nobody' is caliming they are unbeatable, just that they have a monumental advantage over solo queues which the game still is mostly balanced around.
stop being stupid if you want to have an actual conversation.
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I don't think they are unbeatable, they are just harder to beat.
Having every aura perk for free is a really big advantage. I play mostly Solo so I have to keep attention what is going on. If I play with my friends, I can get all the information I need by just asking.
Calling every Move the Killer does is also a gamechanger. Stealth/Trap Killers are at a disadvantage with that. And Totembuilds, too. Once one survivor knows the location of a (crucial) hex totem, everyone knows it.
Of course there is overaltruism, which is the biggest weakness of an SWF-group.
Bhvr should just add an SWF-Indicator for the lobby.
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Honestly? When I'm playing with friends I am actually WORSE than in solo queue. When I play with friends we're just chilling together, having a laugh and generally being idiots. The other day we did a conga around one of the Macmillan maps. If we all get slugged we try and make a human centipede on the floor rather than being salty about it. My own trademark move is jumping into a locker mid chase when the killer is right behind me just because it confuses them and makes my friends laugh.
I try so much harder during solo queue because I don't want randoms to judge me 😂
I agree with OP, SWF groups are definitely not unbeatable. I know it can feel that way but please remember not all of us are complete buttholes!
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'Fairly balanced...'
How the heck do you consider voice comms as 'fairly balanced?' The whole premise of the game is lack of information. To gather what you can through a match, and use it. Kinda easy when one person can simply tell the others who the killer is, what they're doing, what they're running, who they're on, etc. You don't 'need' to be a 'good' swf to give out that free information. Simply telling somebody 'Trapper trapped the edge of the tile' or 'Hex totem in the shack' can be a real game changer.
SWF isn't unbeatable. It's just down right unfun most of the times.
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Last night there was a 4 man a man swf on xbox. Key, 2 toolboxes, flashlight at the last second, hatch offering and strode realty key. Slammed out all the gens so I kept trying to tunnel the key user, but of course it's a swf so they key swapped. I slugged all of them w nurse but thanks to unbreakable they were able to get a 2 man escape. Your telling me that's not impossible?
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They are often very altruistic and too brave. It is often the reason why they get killed.
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The average swf might be beatable, but are they beatable by the average killer? because thats who they are paired against.
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This is either a troll, someone who has only played survivor, or just an unexperienced player.
Killers are not equal and because of that we have 2 very strong killers and really only one can reliably beat a top % swf, now you could argue that because we have a killer that can compete the game isn't survivor sided but that is very narrow thinking.
It's also narrow thinking to say facing a top % swf is common and we should balance around them, because of this the game literally can never be balanced as wr have chase mechanics that good survivors can use to avoid getting downed for a ridiculous amount of time against killers that can't deal with it and killers that can easily deal with it.
The devs can't change the killers to match each other either as the powers are just too different this means that the game will never be balanced, actually against a top % swf i would argue spirit is the only balanced match up and it is just borderline close as those swf's can end games insanely fast by gen rushing.
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Well, it depends on what you mean by "beat."
If they aren't the best loopers and you keep up the pressure on them, their superb coordination won't help when they're all trying to pick up the slugs, so nobody is doing gens. In order to keep up that pressure, the killer has license to slug and tunnel, but camping won't get you far in this case. Tunneling one survivor to get them out of the game is an immediate pressure reliever for you, and slugging survivors means that they have to get off of gens right left and center.
That being said, it's impossible to know if you're playing against a SWF, and you might have just ruined 4 normal Solo queue survivors' days.
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just read the topic, oh no they are not unbeatable..... and honestly i perfer swf over just 4 randoms since it gives me a more of challenge, and when/if post game chat they dont say something like we had so much instead say mean things, it just feels soooooooo good.
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Honestly its not even swf that I have a problem with. I can deal with the coordination that most swf groups have, what I can't deal with is the amount of situations where having stacked perks makes me unable to capitalize on their mistakes. There are many times where the teams im facing have 2-3 borrowed times and ds's that chases are so extended to the point that they can make dumb plays or trades and have it be more than worthwhile for the survivor group.
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You're doing your best, I'm still proud of you!
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