Killer adepts need to be reverted to the same as survivor
Back in the day, killer adept was a simple 4K.
Because of how mori worked back then, it was changed to merciless. (mori could be done right off hook and be done)
Since the changes to the pip system, it is now quite difficult to get merciless (esp at red ranks).
Additionally, mori now are only after 2nd hook.
Please, BHVR, revert the achievements make Merciless for adept killer to a simple 4K, Reckless 3K, Brutal 2K, Displeased 1K, just like survivors simply have to escape. Let's see some actual balance please.
*edited to correct errors in my original statement, and add a better idea that doesn't involve changing the achievement*
Comments
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I agree. The way the game is right now a 4K with the three basic perks should be enough
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As someone who just got a 4k with Trickster and only his perks, only to get cucked by a gold Gatekeeper, yes. A thousand times, yes.
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Same here, there is ZERO reason for it to be merciless any longer, and we know for a fact that they can change it from merciless to 4K (because they changed it from 4K to merciless). C'mon Behavior, you guys can make this change easy! @Peanits any chance we can get some visibility on this?
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What needs to be changed is the emblem system, its old and doesn't reflect what happens in the game most times.
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While I don't disagree with this, it doesn't change the fact that they changed it from 4K to merciless because of mori. Then they changed the pip system so getting a merciless was very difficult (and more difficult the higher your rank). Now if you want to adept, you often have to derank just so the pip system is forgiving enough, and then hope for a good lobby that doesn't rush gens too hard to kill your gatekeeper score.
The simple fix that matches it for killer vs survivor is simple 4K, just like survivors get simple escape. And DCs count as a kill to prevent abuse.
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I agree that would be an easy fix but i think the problem is how they can't change trophies and achievements since they are still technically able to be done. So the better fix is to change the emblem system since they can do that without messing with
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They changed the achievements before (it was a simple 4K back in the day). They can do it again. Changing the emblem system will take weeks or months to implement correctly.
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Can't, console achievements can only be changed if they are actually impossible to achieve, so for the fairness of all platforms everyone gets to suffer
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That's a Sony and Playstation issue. They changed it for Steam before, they can change it for Steam again.
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Really because PS4 used to be 4K for the adept and was only changed when the rest was so how comes Sony won’t change it back when they did it before when it was easy to get?
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The worst thing of going for merciless is that if you start the match too "merciless" for the achievment, survivors may DC or die at first hook and you don't get the merciless victory because of their desition, not yours. So it depends too much on survivors to be such a hard trophy for the killer.
Also survivors can get adept too easily as they can perfectly get it by hiding the entire match, and/or using a key lmao.
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I agree it should be the same way.
Imagine if survivor adept required you to get 4 iridescent emblems rather than just escape.. You can get that done by sitting in a corner, or get the hatch (that's how I got Yun Jin's.. first two hooks suicided, third guy DC'd, killer took pity on me and let me go)
But yeah.. The equivalent of "escape the match" is "kill everyone"
Would need to work out if bleed outs on the ground would count and collapse sacrifices, but I mean as long as no one leaves, why not?
Only Adept I have is Pig's cause she's my main (and honestly the only one I tried to get it on)
I don't care to try adept on everyone with the requirements they have right now, but if they changed it I'd definitely give it a go on everyone
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Exactly - survivors would almost never get adept if they needed to get 4 Iridescent emblems like killers need to (and even with 4 Iridescent, it doesn't always say merciless, which boggles me).
Survivors get it from any escape - even a key escape. So any bleed out, any DC, any mori should count as a death.
I got adept on killers both before and after the change, and 4K was tough but still possible. Merciless on some killers is nigh impossible without some form of farming because their base perks are so weak.
This also honestly points to another issue - killer balancing is done around meta perks, rather than balancing them independently.
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Yes, they do.
No, they won't.
Not until they're actually impossible to achieve on PlayStation.
Until that day, they'll stay like this.
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Yeah the adept killer trophies are a joke. Especially with how garbage the trickster is. Surely they'll be able to look at stats of his games and never see him win, never mind get merciless killer
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Then they need to tell Playstation it is impossible, or make it impossible, so they can simply change it. This is a common sense change that should happen (and honestly never should have been changed from 4K to begin with).
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Lol, i did have that idea myself: To just make it impossible to earn for a few days, enough to make PS go like: "Well #########, guess you can change it then."
Btw, earning Adept has never been tied to killing all 4, they never changed the way to earn Adept itself.
To earn Adept, you have to get the perfect score of Merciless Killer.
HOW you earn Merciless Killer is what's changed.
First it was by earning full BP in all 4 categories, then it was to kill all 4, now it's to earn high enough in your Emblems.
Basically, you always needed to rank up as well as possible in a trial with just the 3 Perks to earn Adepts, the conditions are what have been changing over time.
Survivor Adepts have escaped this by never having such a message at the end of a trial, only escape or die.
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I guess that is true, it has just been very poor emblem changes. It used to be that 4K = merciless (always merciless). They should simply say to Playstation that it is no longer possible to get merciless with a simple 4K, and they need to change the achievement to reflect that. Seems like a simple thing to do.
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Or at least make the double pip take 2 pip points less just like survivors have it. Some killers have powers that don't work with emblems so getting full 4 iris is so dumb as you can't use your power to get it.
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This is actually a brilliant solution. Untether "Merciless Victory" from the emblem system, and simply make it Merciless Victory if you get a 4K, Ruthless for 3K, and whatever for 2K/1K. That makes it a far easier change from Behavior's side, they don't even need to change the achievement, and it makes it work at all ranks.
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It's quite simple to Sony: Achievable trophy & accurate description? Okay, not allowed to change then.
Why Sony can't is beyond me, maybe changing Trophies is a ######### to do, like how changing your account name on PS can ######### up your saves in some games.
But that's just a minor-educated guess.
Anyway, i can also tell you why BHVR won't change it on every platform but PlayStation platforms: They want it to be consistent on all platforms.
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This is why part of why I reject the "blame sony!" point as a total copout.
The devs could 100% work around this by just changing the name of the merciless category (double pipping) into something like "entity extra super duper pleased!" , and just make "merciless killer" a sub-status result that indicates whether it was a 4k or not.
It's "Entity displeased" or with a 4k it's "Entity displeased (merciless killer!)" and same for say "Brutal killer (merciless killer!)"! and whatever the new category gets labeled: "Entity wet AF 4 u (merciless killer!)"
Hell, I'm pretty sure they could just change the ######### trigger conditions in a patch without anyone's permission since the actual text of the achievement just stays the same even if its technically wrong. It's just flawed to activate from 4ks too.
That trophy for escaping with only one down is actually bugged in a way where only one PERSON can be downed in the match before you escape for it to count. Seems like that should be an easy fix, but nope. If they can ######### the game so the achievements don't trigger in the right conditions accidentally, they can certainly fix the game to activate other achievements in the "wrong" conditions where it just says merciless even though 4k works too.
The other reason I reject "blame sony!" as the end-all is because other games have pushed through trophy changes less impactful on PS consoles without that impossible standard. It might require persistence and going through a lot of red-tape, but it can and has been done. I just get the impression they don't want to bother with the hassle.
BHVR doesn't really seem to care about the achievements beyond tossing new ones out to lure people who do care back. Now "Killing From The Void" and "Last Man Standing" trophies are so damn ridiculous because they just pushed through whatever game play changes without considering how that turns those achievements from pretty hard things to maddening to pull off in a real match.
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Your not going back far enough if your talking 4k and it wasn't due to the mori change. (Mori's didn't require hook states back then)
It has always been merciless. Just the definition of merciless has been changed over and over. 4k was considered merciless, then the victory cube came out, and now the emblem system. Survivor's condition was always to escape, while killers get the shaft due to a changing definition.
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Especially when you look at Killers like Plague or Trickster, whose powers don't contribute to Chaser when they cause damage (meaning Trickster has to somehow double pip as a 110 Killer with no power, yikes).
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Rn adepting is generally a hard challenge with most of the cast (to everyone who had adept trickster, I feel bad for you), so this change would make sense if you wanted to make it a bit easier to obtain. BUT, if you find it as a way for a killer to prove themselves, like proving that they have the skill to have a perfect game with the 3 og perks, then it actually makes sense of it being extremely difficult.
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If they change it back to 4K just make it 4K sacrifices
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Except it isn't what survivors have to do. You can literally play like garbage, hide the entire game, use a key, and still get adept by simply escaping. You could have the worst score. Hell, you could have NO score if your entire team DC'd for you and you jumped in hatch without ever seeing killer. The difficulty is ZERO. I get survivor adepts whenever I want to, it is ridiculously easy.
Killers proving themselves by getting a 4K (which isn't easy with base perks) should be more than enough. Having to play a "perfect" game per the definition of Behavior (the right number of chases, the speed of chases, hooks, hits, avoiding being around hooks, no mori, gen hits, pallet breaks) when survivors just herp-a-derp in with a key and leave is stupid.
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By that logic, survivors should only get adept if they escape without hatch/key?
No, just leave it simply at 4 dead survivors, by any means. Including DCs to prevent abuse.
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All they really have to do is revert it back to where a 4K is a merciless. the achievement/trophy is tied to what the results screen says. They don't need to change the conditions that trigger it at all, just the ones that make the trigger happen.
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Killer adept should be a 4k with your 3 base perks. Disconnects should count as kills too.
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Exactly. This would be the simplest change for Behavior to make - tie Merciless/Reckless/Brutal/Entity Displeased to 4/3/2/1 kills instead of emblems, and this would solve all the problems, and not require any achievement change, eliminating Sony as a problem.
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Well I agree that survivors do have easier adepts, but imagine having to have iri in all 4 categories as survivor. It's incredibly difficult, more than killer imo. So either the survivor adepts should be impossible, or the adepts should be easier to get and won't really prove anything, it'll be like the achievement "escape from the x map after completing the gen in the main building".
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NGL, despite being a killer main I didn't even bother to try doing the killer adepts despite having all the survivor ones, and I think it says long about how unbalanced the game is right now to the point where killers are EXTREMELY dependant on their perks (and addons) while its just pure superfluous extra for the survivors.
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"Easier" adepts? It might as well not even be an achievement with how easy it is. All I am asking for is a non-moving goalpost for killers, and the simplest solution would be to make 4K= Merciless, 3K = Reckless, 2K = Brutal, 1K = Displeased. Easy, no mess, no having to change achievement wording.
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They won't change the whole pip system for some achievements, even tho they need to change it regardless.
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Also to point out the 2 pip threshold goes up with rank. So being rank 15 is easier in scoring and survivor skill than red ranks.
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they don't need to change the pip system at all. they just need to tie what the results screen says to the number of kills. they changed it once they can do it again.
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That's not what I'm saying (even though the pip/emblem system needs a full overhaul on both sides). I'm saying separate merciless/reckless/brutal/displeased from the pip/emblem system completely. Make those strictly tied to number of kills (including DCs). That fixes everything.
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They could tie Kills to text that is on top of the scoreboard (as it is with survivor- Escaped/Sacrificed/Dead)
0k - Entity Displeased
1k - Entity Displeased (or make a new text like "Gentle Killer")
2k - Brutal Killer
3k - Ruthless Killer
4k - Mercilles Killer
And then there would be your normal emblem screen showing you how much pips you got for your rank.
This can be done without asking Sony for permission - BHVR would just change in game trigger for achievement , not achievement itself
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Which is just sad to say that sort of action is required because of a poorly built system.
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I cannot remember what the other statement was (maybe one repeated) but that was the original way. The result screen was based off how many died/escaped and ranking was based off bloodpoints earned. The two systems merged with the victory cube.
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If you're after the trickster one dont bother if you're on xbox, iv done it twice now and still no achievement
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the achievement should be changed to "kill or sacrifice all 4 survivor using the killer perks only"
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100% agree.
Play as killer with their perks: nobody survives = Adept Killer.
I have all the killer adepts, until Trickster was released. I haven't unlocked him and stopped doing the adepts after The Twins.
They're far too annoying.
Now...if they become a simple 4K...I would be somewhat interested.
But as it stands, my days of Adept-Attempting are over.
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The thing is they can't change text on the perk because of Sony's policy. They would have to make achievement unobtainable first - or just change what a Mercilless is (which now is tied to Emblems and means +2pips, proposed change is to show Mercilless or Brutal etc... based on kills [sacrifices] during match, this way they won't need Sony's permission for that.
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Changing the achievement is difficult - they made it merciless, but they've changed what makes a game merciless over the years.
They just need to separate pip/emblems from it, and base Merciless/Reckless/Brutal/Displeased off of the number of kills. Problem solved!
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Kills needs to include mori and disconnects - or key/hatch escapes need to not count for survivor adepts. Equal footing for both!
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Yeah, maybe... Whatever, i would be happy even if it only counted Sacrifices, but i guess DC and Mori should count too.
The thing is we can write things here we want changed and how we want them changed and they <most likely> won't change it.
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That's one of the big downsides, the lack of what feels like good communication and the listening to feedback from the devs. Hopefully something that will change as time goes on, can't give up hope!
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I'm aware. still should be what it says.
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