DS was a psychological perk
Let's get this out of the way first... DS does NOT prevent tunneling. If the killer is going to tunnel you, they'll do it even after you use DS on them. It just prolongs it by 5 seconds.
Prior to the nerf, killer mains who would WANT to tunnel would have the fear of DS in the back of their heads. That's what would prevent them from doing it. Meanwhile survivors who would use it think that they're safe and the killer totally won't keep going after them if they use DS, right??
Now, after the nerf, survivors see "DS nerf? I can't use it now." And don't run it. Killers see "DS nerf? My fears are now gone! I'm free to tunnel!" And, if a killer does tunnel someone who happens to actually have DS now, they notice that 5 seconds isn't stopping them from tunneling. So they continue. Hence the massive increase in tunnelling since the update (according to the majority of posts here and other places).
DS was never an anti-tunnel perk. At least it wasn't effective. Killers would tunnel someone out of a match if they really wanted to, DS or not. Now is no different. The object of "fear of DS" is gone, meaning so is the "use" of the perk.
A perk should not be required to avoid being tunneled (during main game, endgame is a different story) in the first place. The Devs need to stop trying to fix game mechanics that people don't like by adding a perk for it. This goes for killers too. We shouldn't have a new slow-down perk added when people complain about speed. We shouldn't have anti-tunnel perks added when people complain about tunneling. Instead, the devs should just fix the base game.
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Interesting. I am also wondering if tunnelling could also be tied to the pip system.... based on your psychological theory.
When/if rank is eliminated and there is no visual conformation of a good match, will the tunnelling become less prevalent?
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Exactly. Rank will soon be nothing but a BP bonus in the future once the new matchmaking officially goes live. I personally have never cared about rank. I play for fun and points. But a lot of people still care about rank for some reason. It will be very interesting when the changes go live.
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"Let's get this out of the way first... DS does NOT prevent tunneling. If the killer is going to tunnel you, they'll do it even after you use DS on them. It just prolongs it by 5 seconds."
And I stopped reading right there. Very first sentence. GJ.
DS stuns the killer for 5 full seconds, this means the survivor will have 5 seconds to run.
A survivor run at 4 m/s, a standard killer run at 1.15 this speed so 4.6 m/s.
This means that to cover the 4x5 m the survivor gained during that stun he will have to travel for 20/0.6 seconds ie 33 seconds. So a DS will wast AT LEAST 38 seconds for the killer.
And that's best case scenario, on an open field without any windows of pallets that would give more time for the survivor.
Anyone knows that if a survivor manage to DS you when a gate is open, EVEN if you are on the other side of the map, said survivor will have more than enough time to get out, especially if there's someone to do a lil bit of body-block.
So yeah. No, you are clearly clueless about what DS even does when it comes to time.
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Of course you stopped reading right there. You're part of the problem.
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Well here's to hopes for a buff for Off the Record and Babysitter.
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Nah, I'd say the one "part of the problem" are the people, like you, who spew obvious lies and use them as the base for their whole reasoning.
What should I wast time reading a whole post built uppon a very easily proven lie?
And yaknow what? I'm pretty sure my math may have thought you something that you may not have realized before : YES, DS is god damn strong and will totally screw the killer, and NO it's not "just 5 seconds".
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Says the person with the "Noed" icon 😂
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Says the person with the "Iron Will" icon😂
Sorry... what was you point again?
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Check my post history for an interesting dialogue with this user regarding camping/tunneling that's seasoned with a light sprinkle of strawmanning after intentionally misrepresenting several of my posts.
It's very hard for me to give any serious consideration to their topics/claims after that interaction.
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you say this like it means something...
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Guess that means that persons garbage *sees you have a coup de grace icon* imma just... *stays 50 feet away*
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well once someone used ds on the killer and then the killer stopped chasing her and me and my friend thought wait thats illegal
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The distance is smaller. Roughly 1,3 seconds are used for the animation alone, meaning that the distance gained is not 5 seconds, it is 3,7 seconds x 4 meters, meaning it is around 15 meters. Not much, bit a difference.
And, against the strongest Killers, DS did nothing. A Nurse, Spirit or Blight were right there after the stun.
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I just like the hook going through the skull. it's a cool icon.
also...you are not far enough away...
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Look who's back, the guy with no input...
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Ngl i run it on freddy just to see peoples reactions lol.
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I'll edit it to say "strawmanning."
Hope you still love DBD :3
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🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Coup de grace pwyf makes survivors dc like 80% chance. Freddy lunging around a whole loop
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Maybe the terminology is what is upsetting everyone. DS isn't as much anti-tunnel as it is tunnel punishment. Sure, if a killer still wants to tunnel you they will but to say it only prolongs a chase by 5 seconds is wrong. It resets a chase completely and give the survivor another chance to waste the killers time. The point is to make the killer pay for focusing one one person no matter what. To that end DS is effective.
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New DS means if the killer is tunneling he will get punished. Where as old DS the killer got punished even if they didn't tunnel.
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Which is why I am fine with new DS. I was fine with the old one honestly, I didn't abuse it and respected it as a killer.
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Summary of first two paragraphs: Killers would tunnel even if they feared DS.
So nothing has changed. No, not really. What has changed is survivors with DS not placing themselves between the killer and their next target. Why killers "feared" DS is because survivors would flaunt their immunity in the killers face and forced them to slug or get stun.
Killers who tunneled before will tunnel now. The playstyle won't change because the DS perk didn't change in a way to affect it. What did change was how survivors use DS.
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Yep, that’s why I laugh when people call it an “anti-tunnel” perk, it never was and it will never be that.
There are too many variables in which the game cannot possibly adhere to every scenario in which “abuse” took place. This goes for both sides...
“but I wasn’t tunneling!” Even though they intentionally skipped survivors like pages off a book to meet their end.
”but I am being tunneled!” Even though the killer might not have them in their mind at all.
The change just made it easier for killers to tunnel because now they don’t have to wonder if the survivor still has their timer active.
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I know right? But hey, that's DbD forum for ya.
Guess when I picked that icon ironically thinking it will trigger survivor mains I once again overestimated them.
Anyway, this thread is embarrassing.
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Oh, we're only on Day 2, yet @_@
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wdym?
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Totally agree. Something powerful in the Killer's base kit should probably be counteracted by something in the survivor's base kit, at least somewhat. Without DS, there are no penalties for tunneling, and it's still the most efficient way to win games.
That and a bloodpoint penalty. This game is pretty grind-heavy and there's no punishment worse than taking away people's money.
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Day 2 of the Decisive Nerf
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Oh right.
I think since BHV doesnt know how to properly convey patch notes to players (like... yaknow, having perks be hilighted in your build with a special tootips telling you it just got changed) a LOT of survivor will start posting "bug report" and "hack report" about how their DS didn't activate when it should have.
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I agree entirely with what @_HN_ said, but I also read the entire post to I'm gonna give my opinion on the rest of the post.
First off, I'm pretty sure DS was the last time we actually saw an anti-tunnel perk unless I'm forgetting something. That was back in October 2016 so by saying that they need to stop adding anti-tunnel perks confuses me. I see a lot of generator, skill check, healing perks out of the devs these days. So where's the anti-tunneling perks you're talking about other than DS because I don't think they've added an anti-tunnel perk since October 2016 unless they added one and changed it entirely.
Second, DS was an anti-tunneling perk people just weren't using it as that. They were pairing DS with UB and then bullying/harassing the killer and moving the game as forward as possible in front of the killer like generators because they know they can't be touched. DS was nerfed as it was because of that. People weren't using it correctly. I've watched killers still get DS'd since the change. I played like 2 killer games yesterday and 17 survivor games. I got DS'd once during my killer match because of what you said about not fearing DS and then got hit with it. I saw 5 obsessions out of all my survivor matches and all 5 games the killer got hit with DS.
DS is still a viable perk, but it's not meant to be active when you aren't being tunneled. If you have time to get on generators, totems, heal others you're probably not getting tunneled. I do say probably though because I know there are times where you get saved and then get on a gen pretty close to automatically and then the killer is back and after you. So then at times like that you definitely feel the nerf.
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In the short time I used it all it means if if I'm healed after a unhook I may just not heal my teammate if I'm in a discord with them. It dosent change how the perks used it just makes it less successful because your still encouraged to bobyblock the killer to get some value rather than get no value at all. It's the worst way they could have changed it.
DS locker abuse, still works
DS unbreakable, still works
These are the only issues I have with DS they havent fix em. Now it's just less useful if I q by my self
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DS locker abuse, still works
DS unbreakable, still works
And this is why these two are not issues. If unbreakable activates, it's because you slugged them. If they jump in a locker, it's because you chased them. The purpose of the perk is anti-tunnel correct? Guess what you are doing in these two situations.
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DS does a pretty good job at extending the game. Does it prevent tunneling? No. Does it make a good survivor make their sacrifice worth 5 gens and a gate opening? Yes. You CANNOT stop a killer who wants to tunnel you. Forcing someone to play a certain way that makes YOU happy but restricts their win is just bad design. If you took out the ability to attack the person who was just unhooked, I doubt any person would play killer longer than a week once they start to lose.
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So? This DS change does not change its power in anti-tunnel. It's those who wants to abuse it are affected. Those people drop DS now because they never intended to use it as anti-tunnel.
And, you need to know why killers tunnel. It's because this game is not balanced. Killers don't get any incentives for letting the fresh hooked guy leave. In fact, they suffer from it because the next time you see them, it's full health and needs 2 hits to down again, wasting a lot of time.
If you really want to fix tunneling, give a huge incentive for killers to go after unhooker, and i'm asking for basekit incentive. Otherwise it'll never be fixed, and DS will never become basekit.
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I can't help but notice you ignored the man's math.
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He ignored the entire post
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It still has this effect?
Same with BT. It's definetely a nerf to the prior BT but it still has its "He has BT, I'm not going for him" effect.Same with DS. You still we like "There's an obsession, he probably has DS now, I'm better if I'm going for the other guy."
The difference to now is just "Oh there is this guy again, he is on a gen/fullife so I'm just gonna go for him, DS isn't a thing anymore.
So no one will be afraid for 2 hours DS anymore. It caused awkward situations were you wasn't sure if his DS is already out or not, now you just can tell.
But it dit not lost its passive anti tunneling effect. The only way it would get lost is when no one wants to run it anymore but that's not on the perk.
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