"DS NERF RESULTS"
Yall need a new perk to crutch on, git good, all these people complaining is honestly just proof of how bad it was abused.
Comments
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/salute
Sure we complained when they reworked ruin and they destroyed undying but if you think about it. No perk killer has ever had was even close to the power of DS.
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I think it's mainly due to psychological impact DS has. You always fear it even if you don't know who if anyone has it due to the stun beiing so detrimental to pressure, obsessionless matches aside.
It alwys does something even if you don't directly notice it or activate it.
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NOED, BBQ, Hex: Ruin, need I go on.
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The four perks you always have to assume every survivor has: DS, DH, UB, BT.
They apply their effects even when they're not in play.
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Psychological effect? Maybe so on lower ranks, but in the higher ranks killers can slug those who have ds and then chase another, creating more pressure on survs. As a part-time killer myself, this approach works. Dunno why DS needed a nerf, it was balanced as it is.
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Yes you do need to go on. Please explain how any of those perks are even close to DS in terms of strength.
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If you have time to freely slug at your leisure, not caring about DS's timer at all, you're facing chill survivors who can't do gens properly and put that pressure on you. Versus them even original DS with 2 uses would seem balanced.
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NOED and Ruin can be, and are nearly always, cleansed.
BBQ isn't a great perk, killers run it for the Bloodpoints. I'd rather run Thrilling Tremors over BBQ.
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I know you said "No killer perk has come close", but remember pre-nerf MoM? Now that was busted, especially when used with DS.
But besides that, I'd argue pre-nerf Ruin might've been the closest contender to that claim. As of current perks it'd probably be Undying until it's nerfed... maybe.
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Yes Pre nerf MOM was a dumb idea by the devs. Especially when combined with DS+BT+Adren. I do not miss those days.
If they took the BP bonus off BBQ I wouldn't use it on most of my killers. Whispers is my favorite tracking perk. It's on all the time and they can't hide from it.
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Ha ha, neither do I.
The only comparison-ish to that atm is probably like Soul Guard, Adren, DS, and Unbreakable. But Soul Guard is only really annoying if you downed someone at a gate who has DS active and Soul Guard to negate a hit.
But that doesn't come close to MoM, which literally allowed someone with full health at a gate on 80% to take both hits and open it and DH into the exit.
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DS functions exactly the same as it did before, players just don't get free progress from it and have a harder time abusing it. It is now a perk that requires survivors to weigh their options. "Do I work on a gen and progress the game or am I at risk of being tunneled and should take the chase? Or should I hide and get healthy?"
As a survivor that never ran DS because I play both sides evenly and know how awful it is to juggle as killer I don't understand the uproar to having it adjusted. Just like I didnt understand the uproar from Undying or Ruin changes since I never ran them because rng sucks ass and I hated going up against it.
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You should not compare killer perks with DS. DS is more often used because of those killers who tunnel and camp. Ofcourse tunneling and camping are strategies used by killers at times (even I do it but rarely and when needed), but DS is the only thing that can protect a survivor from being gay-tunneled. Slugging helps both killer and downed survivors in different ways. But the DS nerf - this was not at all needed. Worst ever update. Hell, I can already see a lot of my surv friends leaving this game (other than those who have already left).
And before you come to conclusions, they were no noobs. They were great survivors and killers at red ranks.
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I still think a more passive anti-tunnel mechanic would be more beneficial. I advocate for a buff to Off The Record so a previously unhooked survivor leaves no scratch marks or pools of blood. That way it's not as bad as DS but also let's the survivor escape from a hook when they're not unhooked right in front of the killer.
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I think survivors should run. If your teammate unhooks you in front of me, you both deserve the hook. Punishing bad plays is how games work. They have a team, I'm on the other team. Why should I help them overcome their own stupidity or selfishness? The best thing I can do is make them see the error of their ways so they can play better in the future. Safe unhooks are possible, truly possible, but DS and BT made it unnecessary. Again, let me say SAFE UNHOOKS ARE POSSIBLE, so maybe someone will notice.
I sometimes feel like DBD players, esp survivors, have never played any games. Where's the second chance in Chess? Does a bad play ever get rewarded in volleyball?
Safe unhooks are possible, but survivors have to try.
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Noed: just destroy totems
bbq: hide in a locker
ruin: see noed
need i go on
you never have to deal with 4 noed's bbq's or ruin's but killers do have to deal with 4 ds's
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Slugging the survivors instead of being able to hook them was huge though, slugging because a survivor had DS is still more beneficial to them because that is a hook state you miss out on while they can work on objectives.
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My biggest gripe is when a killer is camping around a hook, I can't punish that by saving them and the killer eating a DS.
That's the *only* thing I'm upset about. I've still got to use it plenty and it is an extremely clutch perk during end-game.
It's far from useless, but much more niche now. Sometimes it does feel too constrictive, I'll admit, but that's just how it goes.
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Yes you do actually because you've yet to make a point.
How to beat Ruin: Hold down M1
How to beat NOED: When it activates you already won, break the totem if you hate it that much
How to beat BBQ: You don't need to beat it, it's not oppressive. If you seriously hate BBQ THAT MUCH, just hide in a locker when someone gets hooked. Problem solved.
How to beat DS (prenerf): Wait a full minute before picking them up. There's no counter play. If they have unbreakable you lose.
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Imagine a perk having psychological impact on KILLERS. The same side that is to be feared. You couldn’t have said this anymore accurately and this just shows the rework/nerf was long overdue.
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Not defending those perks, but some killer perks have similar effects.. Always assume the killer has BBQ, Nurse's Calling, NOED and whatever other perks.. BBQ and Nurse's (and other aura reading perks) can be easy to figure if you have Distortion, but if you don't want to bring that, yeah assume they have it, hide near hooks or in lockers, don't heal within the killer's range, do bones.
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You can still punish that by bringing borrowed time, there is no reason the unhooked survivor should have 2 layers of protection(ds and borrowed time).
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Its not even really nerfed. It still does its job of stopping a killer from easily tunneling out a survivor pronto and that alone is insanely strong. Its just that now it cant be weaponized so easily.
They stopped it being an offensive perk but let it remain an extremely powerful defensive perk.
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I don't think old ruin is stronger than current ruin. Old Ruin was basically impossible for newer survivors to deal with, but it was often cleansed immediately against good survivors and the effects were minimized as they could hit greats more easily. But even in the case of it being immediately cleansed, it still slowed the game down slightly as survivors would take time to look for the totem and hitting greats gave no extra progress. It was certainly not a well designed perk, but it's power was overrated.
Also undying itself was less of an issue and more that it was very good at keep reworked ruin up longer. The change made it better with totems like DH and Lullaby that otherwise had no synergy with the old version while making ruin + undying weaker.
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The thing is that someone is going down regardless, unless I run BT and Dead Hard. I don't like running either of them. I'm an off-meta fun perk player.
Why should we be punished because the killer wants to make sure that survivor doesn't have any fun? Unless it is end-game or a probable cause, of course. I get killers doing it to BMers and in situations where that is really the only way to secure a kill. I 100% get that, but there isn't a way to have both players make it out there unless it's a whole squad rescue mission, which isn't happening in solo queue.
I don't like leaving people to die on the hook because there is nothing I can do. I'm very altruistic.
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NOED is actually not good though, its just cheap. Against high level players, all it does is guarantee a single kill, and even then maybe not.
BBQ is actually only used for bloodpoints, thrilling is a much better perk.
Ruin was already nerfed.
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That's not the the killer doing it to make sure people dont have fun tho. Killers can only chases 1/4 survivors and going after the weak survivor is always the best play. I can understand you not wanting to bring those perks and there's nothing wrong about that, but it is a team game and if you dont look out for the team then things will fall apart.
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We had a Nurse proxy camp hooks just yesterday at 4 gens and there wasn't a lot me or any of the other survivors could do, so throughout the match we all just had to keep trading hooks.
I don't think most situations is bad that it deactivates, but that one game in specific made me really upset that we couldn't punish this Nurse. Lol
The best thing we could do would be to do gens and let them go into struggle state where the Nurse will probably then leave the hook(s). Even then, BT was useless because she never went after the unhooked person, she would just hit the person going for the unhook and down them at the hook. I just really don't like having to let people go into struggle or die with nothing we can do about it. :/
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i still think the unhooking part is unnecessary you can still unhook someone and be tunneled i would’ve rather it been if another survivor is hooked to me that kinda just tells me to camp cause now all i gotta worry about is bt
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If you are being tunneled off hook, why are you running to go save a teammate?
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Same reason they'd stop to tap a regressing gen as they're being chased: they like making bad decisions, and somehow don't think they should be punished for it.
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Many people have shared this. The still does the same thing. But it no longer allows your to perform unsafe hook rescues in the killers face, or provide free progress on generators with the freedom of being immune to the killer. It gives you an added chase chance. Not a get your objective done for free. It still does it's intended purpose. The good killers that go for a challenge by going after the rescuers etc etc. Repeated response from several people.
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And that is exactly a reason ds had to be nerfed. It created situations of really unsafe unhook attempts under the same conditions like pre nerf bt. A freshly unhooked survivor with running ds timer equipped with bt ran straight to another hooked survivor leading the killer right along. After the unhook one survivor is unhook able because of ds and the other is protected by bt and has probably ds themselves. What is the killer supposed to do here? The bt survivor will probably Bodyblock for the speed boost from the hit and both survivor have still ds running and can't be hooked.
A stupid play by the survivor made valid by perks. The only thing the killer can do in this situation is either eat one ds (or both, in case of bodyblocking again) or slug the survivor with is pseudoprogress for the killer (easily undone by healing or unbreakable) since the permanent progress in from of a hookstate is impossible to achieve.
And in terms of survivor definition both targets would get tunneled by the killer while they are an unsafe unhook (a bad move) but are protected by their perks to punish the play of the killer while the killer is unable to punish the bad play from the survivor.
Is the killer in this scenario supposed to let both survivor simply go free and relinquish all the pressure they worked for? How is that fair?
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The perks you named all have counter there is no counter to ds. Except slugging or not chasing the only person you see.
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Here I thought we were going to see some type of chart or something, but nah, just more bashing players for giving their opinions.
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Last time DS was nerf there was a dry spell of its use and a lot of bitching. You need to give these kinds of things time.
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Old MoM: hit again
old Ds: hit again
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It was never abused, it was always a second chance. It was very much powerful, but now it's very much weak. They overshot the runway on this one.
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I never used it so it doesn't affect me. I just find it funny how survivors would attack killers complaints (especially about the ruin nerf) and here they are, all complaining, without taking their own advice to git gud and apply pressure.
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In both those situations those perks are adding unnecessary time to re-chasing and re-downing the survivor while all the other survivors get more time to power through gens. Those perks weren't balanced and were changed to be more inline with the game flow if they were healthy additions at all they would have stayed the same...
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youre either overestimating ds or underestimating old undying and/or corrupt intervention. CI is easily the 2nd strongest perk in the game behind dead hard.
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And cleanse totem don’t add it?
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The real result of the nerf is to prove that survivors are metasheep.
The overwhelming majority of them have removed it from their build, but for some reason they still play as if they had it, which is frankly hilarious.
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(A totem that takes 14s) vs (getting ds'ed and re-downing that same survivor which could take at least 30+ seconds plus the added time of survivors working on gens) that's such a big time difference that i don't need to explain how they aren't similar.
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If you are being tunneled, who is hooking your teammates? To be tunneled means that the killer is going for you, and only you until you are out.
Also, if you are being chased, why would you pull a survivor off hook where they are vulnerable? At that point it seems less like team tactics and more like sacrificing a team member to the killer.
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Well, there are 5 totems and you have to find them. The tunneled surv is ... under the hook. Not to much time to find him
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If its ruin then that's only 1 totem to cleanse. If it's noed that's still only 1 totem to cleanse. If the "tunneled" survivor is smart they won't be healing under hook....
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queen pop off
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AND NO KILLER PERK HAS ever COME CLOSE to that kind of build. WOW
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Old NoeD and old Machine Gun was up there
Ruin + Undying was also a VERY strong combo, there's no denying that.
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